Pedersoli 1886/71 Boar Buster 444 Marlin

[kaschi]

We've discussed the Italian variety of the 1886 lever actions before (Chiappa, Pedersoli etc and I was just thinking if anyone else has had more recent experiences with the Pedersoli Boar Buster in 444 Marlin. Taylor's has these in their catalog presently and there are a couple of youtube videos showing them being fired (unfortunately in French and Italian languages).

Now, being pretty much a purist, I love 1886 rifles/carbines and the cartridges they're chambered for but the thought of an 86 firing the 444 Marlin round makes me really want one-but only IF it works properly.

If Winchester made an 86 in 444 I'd already have one, but I'm still a little skeptical of the others.

[M. M. Wright]

Why 444 and not 45-70? I have a Browning '86 carbine in 45-70 and I'd use it for anything on this continent. Brass, bullets, dies, everything is easier to come by and I guarantee it will do anything the 444 will.

[Sixgun]

Why? Unless one has a nostalgic and fuzzy feeling for the .444, it's like putting a .327 in a Corvette instead of a big block 454. The 45-70 can do whatever the 444 can and a big bonus on top. I don't read these things......I do them. The 444 is a great cartridge.....in the smaller 336 action. I personally think the 45-70 when loaded hot is too much for the 336 action.....not that the gun cannot take it....but the shooter has a hard time taking it. I've shot 400 grain bullets traveling 1800-2000 fps from a 45-70 Marlin and while I can take a beating....this stuff was way too much.

I've done the same with hot loaded 45-70's out of 1886 Brownings and while not all that pleasant, they were tolerable...to a point.

But, you know.....some guys are tougher than me.

Wisdom does tell me a 250 grain bullet traveling 1200 fps will kill anything in North America. I guess that knowledge satisfies me.

But then again, I'm a fan of the 33 WCF in the 1886......dunno, I'm going to bed. ----6

[sore shoulder]

Heh heh sixgun, I wont post the load, but I've had a 405gr going over 2000fps from a Marlin guide gun. After a couple magazines full, I pulled em down. They would just knock the desire to shoot right out of you in that rifle. The 560gr doing 1450 will take anything on this planet and any other, and isn't unpleasant at all to shoot.

[3leggedturtle]

Sore Shoulder; watched a guy shoot some 400gr loads at 1900fps, at least thats what the box said. he had the GG mounted ina lead sled with 50#'s of lead in it. Still knocked the snot out of him. The explosion of dirt from the berm at 100 yards was very impressive tho.

Six; I'll take a built 327 over a big block anyday, well unless I can get a 426 hemi instead!

[Canuck Bob]

Nothing wrong with a 444. Why would a guy use a Winchester leveraction when he could use a Winchester 70 in 338 Magnum? Horses for courses.

[Sixgun]

Sore Shoulder......I get it now.....you know ....on the name. and you did that with a Guide gun?.....well, Lord have mercy as that baby belted you but good. A guy here on the board.....CAS......handed me a short barreled Marlin one time and upon pulling the trigger, that's all I remember was this bright flash and my 175 pounds going back about 3 feet.

Even 1800 with a 405 is enough for me........I prefer 1400-1500........yea.....gettin old....-----6

[AJMD429]

Well it may not be the maximum cartridge the gun can handle but neither is my 32-20 Marlin 1894...I sure wouldn't trade that 32-20 in for a 44 Mag just because "that action can handle a bigger cartridge than the 32-20..."

I'd like an 1886 in 444 Marlin just fine. Spitting out those little bullets at 2400 fps is just FUN... Plus it makes plenty big holes for my needs. If a 444 is Marginal in power or range I will just fire up my 375 Ruger....

[Buck Elliott]

The full sized '86 is just more gun than is needed for the scrawny little .444.. Browning ' s big levergun was designed for the bigger bodied, more robust cartridges of the day..

FWIW, my '86 Extra Light pitches hard cast 405s down range at around 1950 fps, with no real discomfort, and certainly no pain..

[Blaine]

I've mentioned this, but I'm down to one 45-70...a 12 pound Shiloh Sharps....My go to load when I had others was a 405 w/43 grains of H 4198...about 1650 from the Guide Gun, and 1750 from the 26" Cowboy... I kept my .444.....the GreenBox 240s will smack down anything that needs smacked down, and it doesn't hurt much. Like Six, my shoulder is too old for that Pelosi.....

[vancelw]

I shoulda had Blaine give me some of those reduced-recoil loads

If you want speed, use Lyman #457130 mould to make some bullets.

I have some 405 Woodleigh loads that go better than 2000 fps. Not too bad for hunting. Don't want to shoot them from the bench too much.

The Leverevolution loads are advertised at 2000 fps for 325 gr. They're no slouch on performance. I asked Hornady what pressure they produced and all they would tell me was that they were considered trapdoor safe. I'm not sure I'd want to shoot them in my trapdoor if I had one.

Oh wait...this thread was about the .444....sorry.

[Canuck Bob]

Its always the same on my favorite forum. Someone asks about the 444 Marlin and then we wade through a long thread about the 45-70. Why is this so necessary to the 45-70 crowd. We will almost universally champion the 30-30 as a viable and capable big game rifle yet treat a 444 like it is a pipsqueak not worthy of discussion. I am here to champion the 444.

Guys I really like my 444 and the original poster asked about the 444. The first responses are about the 45-70 and 8 out of ten responses are about the 45-70 and its loads. As far as the gun design being too big why wouldn't we dump on a Ruger No.1 or 3 in a hornet or 30-30 or a fancy new Sharp's in 32-40? The 444 is the equivalent of the 405 Winchester 300 grains at 2200 fps. That is a pedigree worthy of chambering in a 86 clone.

The 444 is a different cartridge than a hot loaded 45-70. The first is a leveraction express cartridge of the American tradition, the 405 or 348. The latter is a slightly reduced 458 Win Mag loaded hot. A 265 grain 44 cal bullet at 2400 fps is formidable medicine for any hunting chore a lever man would ask. I'm not ashamed to admit it is at the limit of my recoil wishes and remains a heavy hitter that is manageable. Sadly I have no experience with the Boar Buster but have also drooled over it. I'm just so happy with my 40 years of 444 Marlin service that buying one would feel like cheating in the worst way.

There are folks loading the 444 with heavy weights that I read and respect. However I am quite happy with my slow twist 444S and 265 to 300 grain bullets. That easy twist promotes accuracy and lead shooting inmo. I also think highly of the 240 grain factory stuff but once I used the Hornady bullet I was convinced. If I could afford it and they would let me I would use it on Cape Buffalo or lion. I can recommend the 265 Hornady FP as a dandy moose bullet to 200 yards. My longest was a DRT 175 yard kill. Paco claims 250 yards with trajectory the main culprit past there. I would question why anyone would want to shoot a grizzly past 100 or 150 with any lever action, up close I can't figure why anyone would use anything else. But it is my nature to think of hunting as a 200 yard game anyway and wounding a frizzly is a dangerous thing indeed. I figure we are the bow hunting crowd among riflemen with our levers. If one needs impact past 200 yards there are far better choices. Mine would be 375 H&H in a lefty bolt with a 1-4X scope.

The 444 was treated with great respect by Paco Kelly documented in our article section. Now that is an opinion backed by years of experience worth considering as well.

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/ ... rstood.htm
http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/444.htm

[cas]

Tisk, tisk... Sixgun's still telling that fish story fifteen years later.

[sore shoulder]

Sore Shoulder......I get it now.....you know ....on the name. and you did that with a Guide gun?.....well, Lord have mercy as that baby belted you but good. A guy here on the board.....CAS......handed me a short barreled Marlin one time and upon pulling the trigger, that's all I remember was this bright flash and my 175 pounds going back about 3 feet.



Even 1800 with a 405 is enough for me........I prefer 1400-1500........yea.....gettin old....-----6

I am NOT recoil sensitive at all, and that load made me not want to shoot anymore that day.

I definitely learned some things over the years working up loads for that gun and the 20" 1895 I bought for my son. One is, I want a pistol grip stock with a better pad. The other is, an even shorter barrel than the guide gun will do. I calculated that my 1450fps 560gr would lose about 50fps cutting the barrel down to 16", and if I really felt the need for more velocity it can be had, that load was nowhere near top. 1400fps with a 560gr is good enough for anything in this galaxy. And I can move a 350gr Hornady round nose over 2000fps if I want something flatter shooting.

[AJMD429]

Its always the same on my favorite forum. Someone asks about the 444 Marlin and then we wade through a long thread about the 45-70...

Next 45-70 thread comes up maybe I'll pipe up about why 500 S&W is better 'cuz it can throw a 500 grain bullet out at 1700 fps for 3235 foot-pounds of energy (CorBon factory load), or a 300 grain (Hornady SST factory load) at 2350 fps for 3768 foot-pounds...

(http://www.bighornarmory.com/downloads/ ... 9fd485e01/)

If every gun were only useful in the "biggest and most powerful" chambering available, we'd have far fewer choices. No bolt actions other than 458 Winchesters, for sure...

[sore shoulder]

Next 45-70 thread comes up maybe I'll pipe up about why 500 S&W is better 'cuz it can throw a 500 grain bullet out at 1700 fps

You do know a 45-70 can do that right?

[Malamute]

Next 45-70 thread comes up maybe I'll pipe up about why 500 S&W is better 'cuz it can throw a 500 grain bullet out at 1700 fps

You do know a 45-70 can do that right?

I shot a few off a bench when chronographing the load. Its what made me send my 86 rifle stock off and get the crescent buttplate chopped off and a nice flat pad put on. Think they were going 1725 or 1750fps.

Very unpleasant with a crescent butt.

The reason people are saying 45-70 is the host gun in question. Its actually more action size than even a 45-70 can fill up unless using the old Govt 500 gr load seated out full length. A 444 would look really small in the action. A 50-110 cartridge in an 86 action looks just about perfect.

[sore shoulder]

The reason people are saying 45-70 is the host gun in question.

I know. I gotta get my digs in here so I don't let loose in the .44444444 thread.

[AJMD429]

Next 45-70 thread comes up maybe I'll pipe up about why 500 S&W is better 'cuz it can throw a 500 grain bullet out at 1700 fps

You do know a 45-70 can do that right?

Yeah, but with a puny little 0.458" bullet, instead of a manly 0.500" one. . .

I know the 45-70 IS an awesome cartridge, but it really does get tiresome that the 444 Marlin can't even be discussed without a dozen sermons on how the 45-70 is so much more powerful and mo-betta. That's like if every time the 30-30 came up for discussion, people piled on about the 35 Remington is better, or whenever someone bragged on their 357 levergun, we all chimed in about why a 44 Mag is better. Why have a 32-20, when the same action can be had in 357 Mag...???

[Blaine]

I shoulda had Blaine give me some of those reduced-recoil loads

If you want speed, use Lyman #457130 mould to make some bullets.

I have some 405 Woodleigh loads that go better than 2000 fps. Not too bad for hunting. Don't want to shoot them from the bench too much.

The Leverevolution loads are advertised at 2000 fps for 325 gr. They're no slouch on performance. I asked Hornady what pressure they produced and all they would tell me was that they were considered trapdoor safe. I'm not sure I'd want to shoot them in my trapdoor if I had one.

Oh wait...this thread was about the .444....sorry.

Yup No Brain....No Pain

[vancelw]

I know the 45-70 IS an awesome cartridge, but it really does get tiresome that the 444 Marlin can't even be discussed without a dozen sermons on how the 45-70 is so much more powerful and mo-betta. .... Why have a 32-20, when the same action can be had in 357 Mag...???

For me it's no so much that, it's that if a person already has a .45-70, why buy a .444? Again, no logic to that, right?
We'd be back to the you-only-need-one-gun theory. I'd buy a 444 if I found one for the right price, probably not a Pedersoli or Chiappa. Why not? Just because.

I caught myself almost pulling the trigger (figuratively) on a XTR in .356 Win.....finally calmed myself down...I have a .35 Whelen and .35 Remington....why buy something else I have to scrounge for brass?

[cas]

I think usable bullet selection is a bigger issue.

[Buck Elliott]

FWIW, I'm not all that fond of the 'venerated' .30 WCF either..., nor of the '94 Winchester..

Many of the features of the '94 came about out of the desire to cover Winchester's butt in the patent race..

[Mossyoak1957]

[quote="Sixgun"]Why? Unless one has a nostalgic and fuzzy feeling for the .444, it's like putting a .327 in a Corvette instead of a big block 454.

Hey Six,
I had a 68 Corvette with a 327 ci./350 hp and it was a screamer.......lol

[AJMD429]

I caught myself almost pulling the trigger (figuratively) on a XTR in .356 Win.....finally calmed myself down...I have a .35 Whelen and .35 Remington....why buy something else I have to scrounge for brass?

YOU have discovered a degree of self-discipline that the rest of us only dream of. . . we wallow in the mire of adding cartridge-after-cartridge to our 'collection', in search of the Holy Grail of cartridges, or the Holy Set of Grails ('between a 22 LR, a 32-20, and my 500 S&W, there's nothing else I need'. . . well, except that 7mm Rem Mag, and maybe a 45 Colt, and . . . . ).

True indeed - we 'need' so few cartridges, and whether the 45-70 or the 444 Marlin should be in the Anointed Group, who's to say...?

As for me, I keep making lists of "Really Essential Cartridges", only to find that the list grows to 10-15 (or more...!) cartridges... ...knowing full-well my grandfather could have 'gotten by' with any ONE of them...

[vancelw]

I caught myself almost pulling the trigger (figuratively) on a XTR in .356 Win.....finally calmed myself down...I have a .35 Whelen and .35 Remington....why buy something else I have to scrounge for brass?

YOU have discovered a degree of self-discipline that the rest of us only dream of. . .

Not hardly Safe is full and I'm broke And wifey lets me do what I want concerning guns, but trying to bring another safe in the house might be the final straw....it would make more room for guns though, if she moved all her stuff out.

I have absolutely nothing against a .444. Other than the current scarceness of brass. The smartest thing I ever did was convert a rifle to .35 Whelen. Not only is ammo strangely available....but, .30-'06 brass is very plentiful.

[kaschi]

Wow, all I asked for was some info about the Pedersoli 444 and it turned into a 45-70 uber alles discussion..... What powers are at work there? A guy would get the feeling that the OP had nothing to do with the conversation. Lots of comrade spirit there amigos. No kidding that the 45-70 beats the 444 in lots of ways!!! That was not the point of my query or desire. Variety is the spice of life and a 444 in an 86 action would happen to ring my bell, not so in the Model 94. What's wrong with that? Winchester didn't only make their 86 in 45-70 you might recall. Sure, if the choice had to be made between a 444 and a 45-70, I would take the 45-70. Presently, two Browning 1886s (Rifle and SRC) and an original Trapdoor Springfield Carbine are in my possession but no 444! I want a 444 but Marlins don't really do anything for me.

So, let's try again: Any input about the Pedersoli would be appreciated.

[Malamute]

I think an 86 in 444 would be a brilliant addition to your gun family, given the additional information for consideration.

I'm all for it. Can we shoot it when you get it?

[.45colt]

I have a 86/71 in 45-70. mine works as We would expect, shoots, great, has a very good trigger. that being said some shooters have reported trouble with these rifles. If I were to order one I would call Taylors, Talk to them and ask someone there to personally inspect My rifle and check it for function. I did at Cabelas before I got Mine. Good Luck. Jim.

[tman]

You can get a Winchester model 1894 in .444 and 450 Marlin. The .356 WCF pretty much duplicates the .348 model 71 in a smaller,lighter package. Most would not consider purchasing an M1 Garand chambered in .556 NATO. Kind of like buying a Mustang with a V6, yeah, you can, but why I have booth a 94 .444 and an 86 SRC 45-70. The 86 is more for nostalgia, the 94 for hunting. All that said, if you dig an 86/71 in .444,

[KirkD]

I wont post the load, but I've had a 405gr going over 2000fps from a Marlin guide gun. After a couple magazines full, I pulled em down.

A couple mags full? I'm afraid I only lasted about four rounds before I took the rest of my 400 grain, 2,000 fps 45-70 handholds home, pulled the bullets and reloaded to more comfortable levels. The steel buttplate on my Browning 1886 carbine, with just a T-shirt on, had me yelling on the fourth shot.

[AJMD429]

Most would not consider purchasing an M1 Garand chambered in .556 NATO.

NO, but I knew a guy re-barreling them in 243 Winchester, and he sold a bunch, one to a buddy's wife for a deer rifle of all things.

[KirkD]

I've never owned a 444 Marlin, but I've had a hankerin' for one ever since I read an article about one around the time they were introduced. I'd say there is nothing wrong with a 444 chambered in one of those '86 Pedersoli's. Also, if a fellow likes a caliber, that's all the excuse he needs. The Pedersoli will certainly safely handle it. As for what bullet I'd use, I'm not sure. I recall loading up some 265 grain Hornady JFP's many years ago to shoot in my 44 Magnum Marlin 94. They went right through a tree that my 30-06 couldn't completely penetrate. I was impressed. I imagine a 444 loaded up with some 265 grain bullets should be impressive for most game in North America, if not all game.

[kaschi]

Thanks for the moral support gents! I'll have to investigate how many versions there are of this in 444. Pedersoli seems to have at least two (possibly three) in 45-70 from what I gather. The version in 444 I've seen on youtube clips has an odd looking camo brown stock/forearm with a rail on the 19" barrel, pistol grip stock and of all things-the dreaded tang safety (YUK on that!). The tang safety is kinda odd looking too in that it's really noticeably raised above the plane of the tang in which it slides. The hammer does, however, retain the half cock safety so removing the tang safety shouldn't be too much of an issue. Their 45-70s didn't have all that jazz or at least appear not to. Cannot say about that for sure.

Yeah, Malemute, you guys can shoot it! After all, what are lever action friends for? But you gotta come out to PA for that experience!

[2X22]

Also, if a fellow likes a caliber, that's all the excuse he needs.

How much more simple can it be!

I love the 45-70, but I also love the 444 and use it to knock the snot out of big bull elk.

[3leggedturtle]

The Handloaders Digest has an article on why the 444 is best of all calibers for a survival rifle. Can't remember if it was from the 90's or early 2000's.

[Pete44ru]

Hey Six,
I had a 68 Corvette with a 327 ci./350 hp and it was a screamer.......lol

So was my 63 split-window coupe .................. (I sure wish I still had it. )



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