What powder in .22 LR and family?

[JohndeFresno]

Just curious; not that I plan to load 'em...
My brain wants to know.

[3leggedturtle]

I heard Lil'gun was used in the 17HMR.

[Nath]

I often wonder this, some guys use to pull bullets from wmr rounds held a .25acp shell holder but I forget what they replaced the powder with.
Wonder if blue dot would work!?
Interesting.

N.

[3leggedturtle]

Nath, I read about them pulling the WMR bullets and replaceing them with a 40gr JHP meant for a 22H or 218 Bee to use on turkeys. So it wouldn't damage alot meat with a body shot, and would provide reasonable expansion with full penetration.

[jdad]

Wolf MT/ME and SK Standard Plus/Rifle Match are made by Lapua. Lapua owns Vhita Vhouri, but I do not know which VV powder is used.

[earlmck]

Interesting question for the handloader types. And would you believe -- QuickLoad has some ideas!

So I picked the Lyman 37 grain cast g.c. bullet to work with, and QL says you could get 1700 fps out of a rifle with the top powders, of which the best was Power Pistol (2.7 grains), Accurate #7 (3.6 grains) with Unique (2.2 grains) not being far behind. And for Vihtavouri, it shows their 3N37 powder (2.7 grains). And these at 26K psi.

But if you only expect a more normal 1300 fps then lots of powders would work, such as Green Dot, Red Dot, and such. Lil'Gun would almost get you there and at very low pressures.

So from QuickLoad I'd say that dang near any old pistol powder we could get cheap would work to fuel our 22 Long Rifle mfg. plant, (in case us Levergunners decide to throw our resources together and build one to help out with the current rediculousness).

[Nath]

Amazing, I wondered about those powders.

So, the manufacturers are selling us short on the real performance available!

It may be possible to have a 40grn bullet doing 1500 easy!
Maybe wmr could do over2000 all day, as per the rws loadings!!

N.

[JohndeFresno]

Shazzam - this is getting much more interesting than the question that was posed!

Thanks, all. Saving this one in my archives.

[FLINT]

Amazing, I wondered about those powders.

So, the manufacturers are selling us short on the real performance available!

It may be possible to have a 40grn bullet doing 1500 easy!
Maybe wmr could do over2000 all day, as per the rws loadings!!

N.

Wasn't the orig. .22 mag Winchester ammo loaded at 2000 or a squeak more?

[Sixgun]

Funny thing you asked that......a couple of years ago, my buddy gave me several thousand "range pick ups". I picked out the best and shot them. I took about 1500 and pulled the bullets with a pair of pliers and dumped the powder in a can..........these were ALL Remington Hi-Vel. Anyway, a few days later I loaded them in 38 Spl. ammo using varying charges of this powder along with exact duplicates of Bullseye.......and then chronographed them........

My velocities were just a tad slower than Bullseye, leading me to believe the powder is on par with 231.

I gave a mess of it to Jack Kort but I have no idea how his tests turned out.------the 6

[GonnePhishin]

Amazing, I wondered about those powders.

So, the manufacturers are selling us short on the real performance available!

It may be possible to have a 40grn bullet doing 1500 easy!
Maybe wmr could do over2000 all day, as per the rws loadings!!

Just an observation from reading different postings regarding 22lr and accuracy, it would appear that the best accuracy comes from "normal" velocity 22's compared to the hypervelocity type ammo like thunderbolts, viper, etc. Thoughts on this????

[JerryB]

Don't reckon I'm a good enough shot to se the difference but some folks say the CCI Stinger is not as accurate as regular LR ammo, so maybe Uncle Buck is on to something about the powder. I sure do like it when I do hit with them, real cat loads.

[Old No7]

Last I heard...

Recent Production 22 LR rounds are loaded with --

UNOBTANIUM ! ! !

That explains a lot!

Old No7

[Sixgun]

Just an observation from reading different postings regarding 22lr and accuracy, it would appear that the best accuracy comes from "normal" velocity 22's compared to the hypervelocity type ammo like thunderbolts, viper, etc. Thoughts on this????

The best accuracy comes from ammo that is below the speed of sound. Keep your loads under 1100 fps and they will do wonders. Standard velocity, like match ammo, is 1080 fps. That's why 11 grains of unique with any bullet is "the" load in a 45-70.

See? Ya learn something new everyday. ----6

[Chuck 100 yd]

Yes, what six said , subsonic .22 ammo is the most accurate.
I doubt any factory uses canister powders . Spacific blends are made up to obtain wanted velocity and to allow their loading machines th function at their best efficiency as well as at the best economy. A penny a box adds up when loading millions of rounds a day.

[earlmck]

Much thanks for bringing up the topic, John. I had never before noticed that QuickLoad covered anything on the 22 rimfire cartridge until you brought it up. But dang -- if old QL is even in the ballpark it certainly suggests lots of room for innovation in the ancient old 22 Long Rifle. Have a look at this table I constructed out of QuickLoad using the little Lyman 37 grain gc bullet with a pressure of 26K psi (QL shows 29K as being max SAAMI). I am just showing the powders normally available in the U.S. which give around 1500 fps or better. (Since this isn't a photobucket thing you need to mouse-click on the file to show it big enough to read.)

22LongRifle.jpg

For the old run-of-the-factory 22 rimfire ammo the factories all use a dead-soft lead bullet with a teensy bit of lube. No wonder they don't want to send them out at any big velocities. But now if somebody came up with a technique for ---say something like powder coating --- so the bullets could withstand more velocity? Or even if you just used a copper-plated bullet... Looks like you could up the performance by a bunch.

[Blaine]

I'll bet there are lawyer-imposed limits....some of those old .22 rifles are held together with spit, and gum...

[JohndeFresno]

...a few days later I loaded them in 38 Spl. ammo using varying charges of this powder along with exact duplicates of Bullseye...My velocities were just a tad slower than Bullseye, leading me to believe the powder is on par with 231...

Astute observation

...I had never before noticed that QuickLoad covered anything on the 22 rimfire cartridge until you brought it up. ...

Verrrry Interesting - me neither, and I play with QuickLoad a lot! Thank you for the detailed workup, Earl - excellent info, and some surprises.

No. 7 - you should be able to find some pretty decent Philippines made Armscor .22 ammo, at least, using the http://www.gunbot.net search engine. These last several months have seen many sites with .22 ammo for sale, albeit at "market" prices.

[Nath]

I'll bet there are lawyer-imposed limits....some of those old .22 rifles are held together with spit, and gum...

That is the reason I Iam sure yes. But some of the hyper stuff is getting there and they could find there way into one made of cheese!

U.

[w30wcf]

6.... I still have the powder that you pulled from .22's that you kindly gave to me a few years ago. I look at it occasionally but haven't loaded anything with it yet.

earlmck,
Great report! Thank you.

SMOKELESS .22 LR H.V. REPLICATION LOADING.....
I have been loading .22 LR with black powder for several years now. I had found and purchased some primed cases several years ago and a mold especially designed to replicate the early .22 UMC LR bullet.

Last year I dissected some .22 Standard velocity and .22 High Velocity cartridges to see what the powder charges were.
.22 LR SV - 1.0 grs. avg
.22 LR HC - 1.5 grs. avg

Rifle - 39A 24"
Titegroup powder
1.0 grs. - 849 f.p.s. avg - factory powder is faster burning
1.5 grs. - 1,260 f.p.s. avg. - pretty much "spot on" to factory ammo H.V. ballistics

6.... 2.5 / SR80 (capacity load) = 1,161 f.p.s.

w30wcf

[Nath]

How did you hold them and crimp them w30wcf?

N.

[Sixgun]

How did you hold them and crimp them w30wcf?
N.

Nath,
Let me talk for Jack Kort.....this guy has every tool ever invented from about 1406 on. He is amazing and one of the most interesting guys to spend an evening with.-----6

[Nath]

How did you hold them and crimp them w30wcf?
N.

Nath,
Let me talk for Jack Kort.....this guy has every tool ever invented from about 1406 on. He is amazing and one of the most interesting guys to spend an evening with.-----6

N.

[w30wcf]

How did you hold them and crimp them w30wcf?
N.

Nath,
We (I and several others) had an interest in recreating the .22 B.P. cartridge of yore several years ago. We had a custom mold made and luckily, we found a qty of .22 LR primed cases and purchased them.

With b.p. no crimp is needed. The bullet heel is a press fit (about .002" - .003" interference) into the case. I have found that with a charge of 4.5 grs. of Swiss Null B b.p. and the bullet lubed with either SPG or NASA, accuracy is on par with standard velocity .22 smokeless ammunition. I have fired 100 rounds with no cleaning and accuracy was maintained throughout.



I have only loaded a small amount with smokeless just to see. If one wants to crimp .22 ammo after reloading, Old West Molds offers
a special set up to do so......22 Hornet Lee FCD and a special shell holder to place the cartridge at the correct height for the crimp to be applied.

w30wcf

[w30wcf]

How did you hold them and crimp them w30wcf?
N.

Nath,
Let me talk for Jack Kort.....this guy has every tool ever invented from about 1406 on. He is amazing and one of the most interesting guys to spend an evening with.-----6

6..... Thank you for the kind words but I would bet that, truth be known, you have more tools than I do!

w30wcf

[Nath]

Thanks gents.

U.

[JohndeFresno]

Wow. Read this again and bumped it to the top, with all the updates.

Not because I started the thread, but because y'all gave some BRILLIANT answers and posts.

I am re-saving this (complete) into a PDF for future generations.

Thank you!