AR Coolaid Partaketh [Completeth]

[Panzercat]

I've been on the AR fence for a while, but have remained consistently indecisive about the platform versus getting an AK flavored firearm and the bigger bullet that usually goes with it. That, and I could get a decent AK for the same price as I would be getting a bare bones entry level AR. Indecision or not,a veteran's day sale put that to rest--

16" FLAT TOP UPPER

CHAMBER:
5.56 X 45 mm

BOLT AND CARRIER:
MIL-SPEC
Chrome Moly Carrier
Carrier Key - Chrome lined
Attached with grade 8 Screws
Properly Staked & Sealed gas key
Bolt: Phosphated-Carpenter Steel
M.P.I. Heat Treated

HANDGUARD
MID-LENGTH FREEFLOAT

UPPER RECEIVER:
Forged 7076 T6 Aluminum
A3 Flat Top With T-Marks
Hard Coat Anodized
Mil-Spec
Ejection Port Cover and Round
Forward Assist
Right Hand Ejection
Bore's surface is coated with dry
film lube, over the anodized surface.

COMPLETE WITH BCG
&
CHARGING HANDLE

BARREL

H-BAR
SOCOM-MID-LENGTH
GAS SYSTEM

4142 Heat Treated
Chromo Moly
1/7 Twist
7.50 Gas Block.

THREADED
1/2 X 28

SOLID BLACK FINISH ON BARREL

So if you're kind of on the indecision fence like me, consider this one (special ends Vet's day). It's priced right and has nearly everything you would want short of a lower. Not much out there about AR15depot aside from misgivings they might be from china (something I have yet to see substantiated) and their website being amateurish, which is frankly 80% of the firearm retail websites out there if anybody has been paying attention. To point, I haven't seen anything negative about them so i guess i'll be the Guinean pig. Wish me luck?

Now I just need to find a decent, cheap complete lower.
Good thing Black Friday is coming up

[octagon]

panzer cat as you know we have a number of AR guys here, I recall Fwiedner has some experience with this platform and their use on porkers. Mcmurphy and 7.72 are well versed in these guns as well, among others...

[AJMD429]

Of course if you want a 'larger bullet' you can just get a 300 Blk or 6.5 Grendel or other 'mid-caliber' upper. For the 'big-bore' look at 50 Beowulf or 450 SoComm.

[Panzercat]

Of course if you want a 'larger bullet' you can just get a 300 Blk or 6.5 Grendel or other 'mid-caliber' upper. For the 'big-bore' look at 50 Beowulf or 450 SoComm.

Pretty much what it came down to. A 300blk is somewhere in the future because of the hardware synergy and it does the same thing x39 does anyway.

Only thing is that the barrel here is just chromemoly, not chrome lined or melonite and the like. For the price, i could afford to ignore it. Everything else looks pretty solid. I'm not likely to shoot out a normal barrel and if i did, I easily saved enough to justify a fufu one

[7.62 Precision]

Only thing is that the barrel here is just chromemoly, not chrome lined or melonite and the like. For the price, i could afford to ignore it. Everything else looks pretty solid.

How many of your leverguns have chrome lined barrels? Bolt actions?

Don't sweat it. The chrome lining has definite advantages. It also has disadvantages.

Advantages are barrel life, ease of cleaning, protection against rust. Disadvantages are increased cost and usually decreased accuracy. Chrome lining is not a completely precise process.

For home defense-type carbines and those that will see a lot of use in courses, etc., in other words, a fighting carbine, I like a chrome lining. It is not a deal breaker, though. For any rifle I am looking for accuracy from, like a precision or SDM-type rifle, I would prefer a stainless barrel, or at least non-chrome lined. You get a more precise bore.

Keep the rust out, and you will be fine. Barrels are cheap, anyway. If you shoot it out in 15 years, you can replace it.

[AJMD429]

Barrels are cheap, anyway. If you shoot it out in 15 years, you can replace it.

Plus, you can replace them yourself - takes maybe ten minutes if you have a gasblock pin punch and the appropriate wrenches.

That fact alone makes some guns WAY more appealing to others if the barrel is marginal.

[piller]

One of the advantages of the AR type of rifles is that they are modular. Whether you like them or not, they are easily repaired or parts easily replaced. They obviously work, and some of them are incredibly accurate. They will never be pretty, and cannot ever compare to a nice levergun in the looks department, but they have their uses.

[7.62 Precision]

They will never be pretty, and cannot ever compare to a nice levergun in the looks department . . .

. . . or in the feel of craftsmanship that comes with a well-made lever gun, especially an old one.

[AJMD429]

They will never be pretty, and cannot ever compare to a nice levergun in the looks department . . .

. . . or in the feel of craftsmanship that comes with a well-made lever gun, especially an old one.

Yep.

• An AR-15 is an amazingly accurate machine, capable of delivering rapid and accurate fire, whether needed on the target range, or battlefield.
  
  A century-old levergun is an amazingly crafted firearm, capable of harvesting game or defending a homestead.

Any U.S. household should proudly have at least one example of BOTH...

[MrMurphy]

There is pretty and there is pretty.

While I can appreciate a century old Winchester, the "un pretty" AR will always have a place in my hands, as I've spent more time with one than nearly anything else.


I've never heard of that particular distributor/manufacturer, no idea who built it or how well, but if the parts list isn't lying, then you've got some decent components to work with and learn the AR from.


The M4/M16 handbook by Mike Pannone is an excellent basic reference guide. It's written for junior enlisted troops specifically for the issued M4/M16, but the basics of the functioning and zeroing remain the same across the board, even if you're using a different twist or optic.

[Streetstar]

There is pretty and there is pretty.

While I can appreciate a century old Winchester, the "un pretty" AR will always have a place in my hands, as I've spent more time with one than nearly anything else.

This --- myself as well --- my round count with sporting firearms will never equal my round count with these plastic rascals unless i take up IPSCA or Cowboy Action---- My first foray into "sporting firearms" was building an AR for myself --

After more time afield i came to appreciate the nuances of many other different types of firearms. --- Immersing myself in literature, i really wanted an African ready double (but a nice bolt gun in 375 H&H would have sufficed)

When i got more serious afield, i bowhunted literally 10 x more than rifle hunted, but for a while, i wanted nothing to do with tradition, - i wanted performance, and in my eyes, that was a 7mm STW or .300 Weatherby bolt gun

- and when my dad passed away, i tried immersing myself in old westerns for a while, as that is what he loved to watch when he got some downtime -- this was when i developed an affinity for leverguns and Colts, truth be told -- but during the course of this , i realized my Guide Gun was a darn fine field rifle ---- superior in my eyes, for its intended mission, than any hopped up AR variant , and better than a 300 Mag when i needed a quick follow up shot - although i want to add a Beowulf to the stable just because its neat

For me, literally growing up on M-16's -- the things shoulder just as naturally as a nice lever gun though , and everything falls into place --- since they are all seemingly the same ergonomically , it is easy to pick apart the subtle nuances of a different trigger, or a heavier fore end , or having the stock in a different position
------ i will always perhaps feel a tad naked without an AR variant within pretty easy reach ------- perhaps some of you feel the same about a Winny 92/94 , or an M1A or ..(pick your poison) -- they are good guns for their intended purpose

[stew71]

Panzercat....I've had great results using Rock River Arms components and lower receivers from JD Machine Tool out here in California. Yes...I said California. I believe JD is the true source for several of the brands on the market. It's cost me only around $200 - 250 to build each of my 3 lower assemblies, so you should consider building yours as well. Besides, you'll have a better sense of troubleshooting something you've built with your own hands.

The AR is the modern man's Tinkertoy. Or Lego set.

I've also heard good things about Stag, S & W, and DPMS lowers from a couple of guys I know. While those may not be true milspec...blah blah blah...they seem to be fine for the average civilian just looking for a fun gun.

I consider a fine levergun an heirloom to be cherished and passed down, while the AR is a tool...right there alongside my chainsaw and drill press. I can buy and sell AR's with little emotion baggage. My Marlin and Brownings, however, will be with me until they put me in the ground.

[7.62 Precision]

[

• An AR-15 is an amazingly accurate machine, capable of delivering rapid and accurate fire, whether needed on the target range, or battlefield.
  
  A century-old levergun is an amazingly crafted firearm, capable of harvesting game or defending a homestead.

Any U.S. household should proudly have at least one example of BOTH...

An AR-15 is an amazingly accurate machine, capable of delivering rapid and accurate fire, whether needed on the target range, or battlefield; capable of harvesting game or defending a homestead.

Just as the lever gun was the premier American rifle in 1914, suitable for almost every purpose, from predator control to big game hunting, to self-defense and law enforcement work, the AR is the premier American rifle in 2014, suitable for almost every purpose a rifle could be used for.

And I agree about every household having both.

[Panzercat]

And I agree about every household having both.

Fortunately, I do

As for looks, I really don't mind the look of an AR. It's just a very purpose driven tool that can be modified to taste. Thankfully I'm not in the military anymore so I can buy it to suit my taste. I like big rails and I cannot lie.

[Panzercat]

And now for some eye-candy. just got it Friday and found it waiting on the washer when I got home!







Now it's time to find a black Friday or Cyber Monday special on complete lowers

[7.62 Precision]

At first I thought your flash hider was not indexed right. Then I realized it is the one that does not have a specific bottom and top. Now I feel dumb.

Any idea who made the barrel? Is it a coating on the barrel, or just oily?

[Panzercat]

At first I thought your flash hider was not indexed right. Then I realized it is the one that does not have a specific bottom and top. Now I feel dumb.
Any idea who made the barrel? Is it a coating on the barrel, or just oily?

ARD isn't the best communicator in the world. When asked about the barrel--

I have a couple of questions-- First, the barrel is listed as 4142 Heat Treated Chromo Moly, 1/7 Twist. Is this also a chrome lined barrel? Possibly Melonite Nitride? None?

It is chrome Molly not chrome lined and it's a different Black not melanite American-made made by Ard

Hrm. Right. Kinda matches other communications I've seen them post. As for the coating, it is actually a gloss of sorts, not oil. Not sure what to make of it or who makes it; stamped with ARD's own mark. Kinda like it, though. The flash hider is arrayed as an X if that makes any sense. The picture angle messes with the perception.

[firefuzz]

Looks like a Yankee Hill Machine "Phantom" flash hider. I like 'em, got 'em on a couple of my AR's. Work about as well as any FH and also serves as an impact tool (on bad guys carcass if you let 'em get that close).

Rob

[piller]

The AR is something that anyone can use. From one lower, you can get several uppers to attach to it in a good variety of calibers. It can be from a .22lr up to a .50 Beowulf in the standard AR15 size and can be a functional and useful addition to the gun safe. They are ugly, but you can still own a few nice leverguns to look at and use. I am saving my pennies for a .50 Beowulf upper for my AR15. I don't need it due to having a Marlin Guide Gun in .45-70 that is a very good shooter, but I still want one. I have got PillHer to agree to go on a bear hunt within 2 years, and her U.S. Army experience would be the reason for her to carry the AR15 with the .50 Beowulf upper on it. I want her to use something a little more powerful than a .30-30 for a bear. I know that the .30-30 can do the job, but she is still more comfortable with something that feels like the M16 that she trained on at Ft. Jackson and Ft. Rucker. Nothing else that I know of is as easily converted to another caliber in a semi-auto as the AR type of rifle. Heck, I might use my .35 Remington caliber Marlin for the bear hunt. BUT, for the situation and for PillHer's experience, the AR is the best idea.

[7.62 Precision]

ARD isn't the best communicator in the world. When asked about the barrel--

I have a couple of questions-- First, the barrel is listed as 4142 Heat Treated Chromo Moly, 1/7 Twist. Is this also a chrome lined barrel? Possibly Melonite Nitride? None?

It is chrome Molly not chrome lined and it's a different Black not melanite American-made made by Ard

Hrm. Right. Kinda matches other communications I've seen them post. As for the coating, it is actually a gloss of sorts, not oil. Not sure what to make of it or who makes it; stamped with ARD's own mark. Kinda like it, though. The flash hider is arrayed as an X if that makes any sense. The picture angle messes with the perception.

Yeah, when they say "Made by ARD" I expect they mean "profiled by ARD" or "marked and coated by ARD." I hate it when these guys try to pretend they make every part of the rifle. They should at least divulge where they get the barrels from - it is important, especially if you are getting a precision rifle from them. A defensive carbine; it is not really as critical for most people. It is most likely a Wilson barrel or something like that - one of the major barrel suppliers, anyway. I just asked out of curiosity.

In the end, what matters is how it shoots. With a carbine in 5.56, your terminal effectiveness will drop of before your max accurate range does, so most barrels will shoot well enough to hit out to 600 meters or so, no problem.

I realized pretty quick which flash hider it was - I just usually use the 5C version, which has to be indexed with a slot at the top and closed at the bottom, so my first thought was that it was not indexed correctly, and then I felt stupid.

[Panzercat]

Of note, the barrel appears to be heavy profile barrel, which actually surprised me. Sucker is thick, or rather thicker than I was expecting. And i agree, it's probably a rebranded barrel. The ultimate test is in how it shoots, however. I'll stop bumping this thread and repost when i have something mosre substansive to report, more than likely including a lower at that point

@ firefuzz
Yeah, I was considering all sort of alternatives to the flash hider, but am finding I like this. Kinda happy that i'll be making fewer modifications than originally expected.

@ piller
Ooooh, 50 Beowulf... I'm smelling what you're stepping in.

[7.62 Precision]

@ firefuzz
Yeah, I was considering all sort of alternatives to the flash hider, but am finding I like this. Kinda happy that i'll be making fewer modifications than originally expected.

Don't worry about replacing it. There are lots of alternatives, but few actually work any better than the standard A2 flash hider. You can spend well over $100 for a muzzle device that may not do anything more than the one you have on there.

[MrMurphy]

What he said on flash suppressors.

I use a standard A2, the only thing I might switch it to is a Surefire to use with a suppressor, or a BCM.

The heavy profile barrel is a "cheat" sometimes i think, as some people seem to think heavy barrel=accuracy.

Medium and lightweights shoot just as good unless you're burning up 200 rounds rapid fire and shooting for groups. Even then, mediums can do well. During a torture test at my old company we ran 1200 rounds of 7.62 through a medium weight Lothar Walther barrel in a day. It shot 0.5" before starting, about 600 in (all of it in rapid fire) it shot about 0.6" and at the end of the test, it still shot under 0.7" or so. Considering this was a mediumweight precision rifle capable of shooting sub-minute at a thousand (in semiauto)....from a 16" carbine?

Yeah, heavy barrels aren't always "necessary". I despise them in most carbines, but if it's what you have, shoot the hell out of it for a bit.

[Panzercat]

AR Completeth. Hopefully the dropbox links work since Photobucket is just peeing me off.







Looking pretty sweet. Hopefully it functions the same way. Will report back with a full range report next week

[AJMD429]

Unless the gun has to be 'flat' for storage or concealment reasons, I really like those angled backup irons. No need to remove a suddenly damaged scope, nor even to 'flip up' a couple of more mechanically-complex sights; you just tip the gun to the 'half-gangsta' position and keep pulling the trigger.

[Panzercat]

Unless the gun has to be 'flat' for storage or concealment reasons, I really like those angled backup irons. No need to remove a suddenly damaged scope, nor even to 'flip up' a couple of more mechanically-complex sights; you just tip the gun to the 'half-gangsta' position and keep pulling the trigger.

Then you're going to love this: They lock down flat for storage. And they feature two apertures on a hinge-- the large one shown and a peep sight. But yeah, that was the idea: Retain the scope mount and still have access to irons.

[Paladin]

Looks like a Yankee Hill Machine "Phantom" flash hider. I like 'em, got 'em on a couple of my AR's. Work about as well as any FH and also serves as an impact tool (on bad guys carcass if you let 'em get that close).

Rob

Pulse they tighten them selves every time you fire due to gas pressure if you didn't use the correct crush washer. A handy thing if you have a suppressor.

Great start in to the evil back rifle world.

[firefuzz]

Panzercat a good .22 LR conversion is money well spent for your AR system. I know .22 ammo is still high, but still far cheaper than .223/5.56 and it will shoot close enough to POA without adjusting your sights out to 50yds. Just fire a few rounds off the bench to determine the difference and you'll be able to tell where full power ammo would be impacting the target. You'll have the same basic weight, sights, and controls for cheap training as you would using full power ammo. Just always be sure to run a brush down the barrel, at least, before going back to full power ammo. Every conversion unit I've used deposits a small ring of carbon just in front of the chamber adaptor and you don't want to take a chance on a high pressure round "ringing' the throat of your barrel.

I would caution you against "overloading" your rifle. I just finished helping a young man "rig out" a very nice 16" carbine. He has plenty of cash, still lives with Mom and Dad, and no practical experience, but he's seen and is caught up in all the "goodies" available for AR platforms. By the time he added all the "extras" on what once was a very sweet handling carbine, 3x9 scope, BUIS, backup red-dot,vertical fore-grip with light/laser and spare batteries, bipod, and a loaded 30rd mag the darn thing weighed over 13 pounds. I just shook my head and said "OKAAAAY" and went on. Hopefully he'll learn.

I could write volumes on the merits of the AR15 system, but I'm trying to keep this short. I grew up, as many of us did, shooting lightweight lever and pump rifles and am comfortable with them and my ability to use them. But I've sweated, slept with, crawled thru the muc and mud with, carried and shot an AR15/M16 type rifle more than all the others put together. Although I haven't done it in a long time, I'll bet I can still field strip and re-assemble an AR in pitch black or blindfolded. So....when the chips are down I'll reach for one of my AR's, not one of my cherished levers or pumps. I want the comfort and confidence the feel of an AR gives me in those times.

Rob

[Panzercat]

I would caution you against "overloading" your rifle. I just finished helping a young man "rig out" a very nice 16" carbine. He has plenty of cash, still lives with Mom and Dad, and no practical experience, but he's seen and is caught up in all the "goodies" available for AR platforms. By the time he added all the "extras" on what once was a very sweet handling carbine, 3x9 scope, BUIS, backup red-dot,vertical fore-grip with light/laser and spare batteries, bipod, and a loaded 30rd mag the darn thing weighed over 13 pounds. I just shook my head and said "OKAAAAY" and went on. Hopefully he'll learn.

Rob

Ha! No, a scope and buis are about all I need on the actual rifle itself. Runs me about 6.5lbs dry. Add an extra pound for a fully load 30 round mag. Not as light a my old keltec, but vastly better build quality I'm hesitant about adding a "i'm right here shoot me!" flashlight and have never been a fan of vertical forgrips. Maybe an AFG... eventially. I do have a bipod on order, but it won't be a permanent resident. I'll probably get around to adding a forward sling point, but beyond that, this rifle is pretty much done

Between you and 7.62, I don't mind hearing volumes about this sort of stuff, especially since it's my first real AR (again, the keltec doesn't count).

[rjohns94]

Any U.S. household should proudly have at least one example of BOTH...[/quote]



UH OHHH. I'm currently without either

Going to get the AR platform configured first, then I'm hunting for an original model 71 or 1886. Maybe Victor will sell me one of his 71's.



Your AR turned out nice. Well done

[MrMurphy]

A white light on an AR isn't an option, it's a necessity.

I've been using one for room clearing since 65 lumens was bright. The current standard is 500 or better.
If you think one of those is a 'shoot me' indicator, you need both training, and experience being on the other end of one.

It won't blind you, but you won't be doing any effective aiming in their direction especially if it's being strobed (not constant on).

[Panzercat]

A white light on an AR isn't an option, it's a necessity.

I've been using one for room clearing since 65 lumens was bright. The current standard is 500 or better.
If you think one of those is a 'shoot me' indicator, you need both training, and experience being on the other end of one.

It won't blind you, but you won't be doing any effective aiming in their direction especially if it's being strobed (not constant on).

Pretty sure I didn't mention anything about clearing rooms in Fallujah, but okay.

[firefuzz]

Didn't sound right when I read it. (Deleted post)

[Grizz]

Panzercat

wouldn't the light info apply to clearing rooms in our own house?

I have often thought WITHOUT LIFTING A FINGER TO DO THIS, that I should install strobe lights at eye level in the appropriate places in my house that I can control, kind of a light shield that protects me while disorienting a terrorista intruder thug. Perhaps the motion switched yard lighting should also have a defense strobe function.

The other thing that would help is a VERY LOUD directional KLAXON that would stop invaders in their tracks. A couple hundred decibels is incapacitating. If they get thru that force field they will never hear the bye-bye switch.

I sense a business opportunity

[AJMD429]

Panzercat

wouldn't the light info apply to clearing rooms in our own house?

I have often thought WITHOUT LIFTING A FINGER TO DO THIS, that I should install strobe lights at eye level in the appropriate places in my house that I can control, kind of a light shield that protects me while disorienting a terrorista intruder thug. Perhaps the motion switched yard lighting should also have a defense strobe function.

The other thing that would help is a VERY LOUD directional KLAXON that would stop invaders in their tracks. A couple hundred decibels is incapacitating. If they get thru that force field they will never hear the bye-bye switch.

I sense a business opportunity

[Panzercat]

Fallujah was just added for flavor. Frankly this ar isn't going to be my first go-to house clearing arm of choice... At least not at full rifle length. Never said a light wasn't a good idea, just it wasn't going on this particular gun.

That said, 1in flashlight mounts are purdy cheap. No reason I can't throw $4 at eBay just to have one lying around for the 'just in case' in me.