Sight In Your Lever For The First Cold Shot

[Blaine]

I'm going out on a limb and say that most hunting rifles, especially levers, change POI when the barrel gets hot. My levers seem to string vertically, especially the 336. Now, 3 inches will not make much difference on a typical 30wcf shot at a game animal, but why take a chance? In fact, I deem it wise to let the barrel cool between every couple shots when working up a hunting load, or even shooting factory stuff for the upcoming hunting year. YMMV, but this works for me. ( I still haven't figgered out why the 88 in 284 strings horizontally )

[AJMD429]

Yep. Odds are you'll only need one shot, anyway, and if you do need a second, you're ok on that one with a +/- 2 MOA accuracy vs. a +/- 1 MOA for the first one, anyhow.

[Pete44ru]

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Great minds think alike....................


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[williamranks]

That makes good sense. I know, before I messed with the forearm, end cap and mag tube mount, the Guide Gun used to drop low left about 2 inches after a few rounds.

[wolfdog]

Yep, all my hunting implements are done that way.

[BrentD]

If built right, this should not be a problem. I had a target rifle that would climb like the devil but it was do to a very poor barrel job. Having this fixed solved that problem and it is now the most accurate rifle I own and each shot is the same.

The other issue that can cause first-shot problems is lubricant. If you use a moderate or heavy gun oil in your barrel for preservation purposes, as most of us do, then the first shot, or even the first several shots, can have elevation issues. Simply wiping well with one or two dry patches before hitting the field will solve that problem. If you feel you need a bore preservative of some sort while actually hunting, then use a very light oil and as little as possible. Hoppe's #9 solvent or even WD40 beats the average RemOil or CLP, etc when you have to shoot through it.

In any event, you should be able to solve the first shot problem w/o having to do sight in when cold routine. And you might have an overall more accurate rifle to boot when you do.

[1894c]

great advice...good reminder on cleaning the oil out with a dry-patch, a habit that my Father taught me...also knew an "Old Boy" who would take one fouling shot after he sighted-in/cleaned the barrel, he said the fouling would keep his 1st shot on target. I personally never have done this... :)

[Chuck 100 yd]

Blaine , I agree 110% but will add.... If sighted in for first shot impact,a clean or fouled barrel should also be taken into account. A rifle clean and cold may not impact in the same location as cold and fouled. I usually fire the rifle to foul the bore before going afield and keep it that way until I am done hunting at least for the trip.

[Griff]

My own odds are that when hunting, I won't have to take a 2nd shot... so I sight in the hunting guns for 1st shot poi=poa.

[jackruff]

At the distances our deer are typically shot it really doesn't matter!

[cshold]

Another good thing to know is where your bullet hits at 25 yards no matter if it's shot
in at 100, 200, or 300 yards. Just never know when you're going to stumble into that
bedded down big rack

[Blaine]

It's more like black cats, and walking under a ladder, but we all have our little rituals.....

[vancelw]

Another good thing to know is where your bullet hits at 25 yards no matter if it's shot
in at 100, 200, or 300 yards. Just never know when you're going to stumble into that
bedded down big rack

Almost every centerfire will hit a pie plate at 25 yards (the size of a vital zone of a deer) no matter what range it is zeroed for (within reason) . The first LOS crossing is between 22-28 yards on a LOT of calibers. Maybe that is double-point blank range

[Grizz]

I hunted in Alaska for close to thirty years and made a lot of meat in all kinds of conditions with all kinds of firearms and never gave it a single thought.

The bullets mostly always went where we told 'em to, and the food usually died on the spot.

I never heard of a fouling shot because that was before internet I guess.

To think of all the angst I missed out on, I could have been delirious with worry instead of slapping the trigger and wetting the knife. What was I thinking?

? ;)

Grizz

[Blaine]

I hunted in Alaska for close to thirty years and made a lot of meat in all kinds of conditions with all kinds of firearms and never gave it a single thought.

The bullets mostly always went where we told 'em to, and the food usually died on the spot.

I never heard of a fouling shot because that was before internet I guess.

To think of all the angst I missed out on, I could have been delirious with worry instead of slapping the trigger and wetting the knife. What was I thinking?

?

Grizz

Duh....That was Alaska...they were ALL cold shots...

[7.62 Precision]

Snipers will check to see if there is a difference between a cold-bore zero, and if there is, will know what it is. Most snipers also clean the bore and then fire a fouling shot. Some snipers now carry the rifle with a bore snake inside the bore (sometimes attached to the drag bag so it pulls out when the rifle is removed from the bag). This is to keep the bore consistently clean and dry of oil.

For hunting purposes at normal hunting ranges with a quality rifle, the difference is going to make little difference. If it makes a big difference, you will notice during zeroing and practice. In this case, you can go to a different rifle, or you can determine your cold-bore zero and run with it.

If you have a 1.5 MOA or 2 MOA rifle, you might never notice the variation between a cold or hot barrel, or clean or fouled.

[M. M. Wright]

What about that first round from a semi-auto? Racking the slide or releasing the bolt to strip that first round seems to always put it outside the group of self shucked rounds. I've noticed this with 1911s and my FAL is really bad about it. I can load 2 rounds in a magazine, let the bolt strip the top round and then fire the second, gun loaded round. Doing this 5 times will give me 2 groups with the auto groups about 2.5 inches above and a little right of the other group. No, I haven't figured a cure for it. Started with a fouled bore in case you're wondering.

[Canuck Bob]

For what little it is worth I always load the tube magazine when doing serious sight in work for the season or to confirm I can hit what I aim at. What the first short does makes a lot of difference when it is important.

My 444 didn't seem to care enough to matter cold, hot, first or third shot, sub-zero or normal temperatures. It stayed zeroed as well if ammo was the same. Still it was good to know that. My 10-22 would walk all over the place when I got it but settle down once gopher hunting warm (hot!). It was a combo of barrel band, loose barrel block, and stock channel. It was minute of gopher every shot and held zero as long as the ammo didn't change after that got fixed.

[Chuck 100 yd]

I had a Remington 700 .243 that I used to win a club postal match for hunting rifles.
That rifle would place the first cold clean shot 6" left and 2-3" high. Every shot after that would be in the center and would stay inside of a 1" group. We limited the guns in that match to 6X scopes.
Just goes to show that every gun is a rule unto itself and the only way to know is testing at the range.

[Blaine]

For what little it is worth I always load the tube magazine when doing serious sight in work for the season or to confirm I can hit what I aim at. What the first short does makes a lot of difference when it is important.

My 444 didn't seem to care enough to matter cold, hot, first or third shot, sub-zero or normal temperatures. It stayed zeroed as well if ammo was the same. Still it was good to know that. My 10-22 would walk all over the place when I got it but settle down once gopher hunting warm (hot!). It was a combo of barrel band, loose barrel block, and stock channel. It was minute of gopher every shot and held zero as long as the ammo didn't change after that got fixed.

I only benched my .444 once...it hit three at POA with the factory irons, and I've never benched it again...It does, however, hit "stuff" everytime I shoot it....I call it good to go with Greenbox 240....I can hit with it so easy, I don't care how "accurate" it is....If you know what I mean....

[J35]

I never would hunt with a clean barrel.

One year I was real busy with work and found myself with a clean barrel the evening before opening morning of deer season.

I had a friend from Alaska visiting so we ran up to the hills where I had some gongs set up and I laid down in prone and fired a shot and hit the gong, the surprising thing was a nice buck was bedded down about 20 yrds from the gong, he jumped up and ran about 25 yards and stopped, I was checking him out in the scope and my friend was saying shoot shoot and I stood up and said nope season won't start for about 12 more hrs, he just shook his head called me hard core.

----------J

[Canuck Bob]

For what little it is worth I always load the tube magazine when doing serious sight in work for the season or to confirm I can hit what I aim at. What the first short does makes a lot of difference when it is important.

My 444 didn't seem to care enough to matter cold, hot, first or third shot, sub-zero or normal temperatures. It stayed zeroed as well if ammo was the same. Still it was good to know that. My 10-22 would walk all over the place when I got it but settle down once gopher hunting warm (hot!). It was a combo of barrel band, loose barrel block, and stock channel. It was minute of gopher every shot and held zero as long as the ammo didn't change after that got fixed.

I only benched my .444 once...it hit three at POA with the factory irons, and I've never benched it again...It does, however, hit "stuff" everytime I shoot it....I call it good to go with Greenbox 240....I can hit with it so easy, I don't care how "accurate" it is....If you know what I mean....

Truth is I feel the same about mine. I benched it with a scope 30 years ago and was amazed. I learned to handload with that rifle so I went overboard. I use to relate it shot 265 Hornady FP into an inch at 100 but folks just didn't believe me. It is naturally more accurate than any rifle I own except maybe the new CZ527 223. I did shoot the 444 a lot because I was young and single and in the bear bush every weekend for years. I checked zero for years with a coffee can and cross canyon scree slopes to see hits after the newness of handloading wore off.