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I've been looking long and hard for a Colt in either .357 or .45. My experience is very limited when it comes to SAA revolvers. I have a broken Uberti that I will hopefully get fixed soon.
I hope this isn't a stupid question but I have heard and read that you should only load five rounds and rest the hammer on an empty chamber. That kind of made sense to me, heck, John Wayne said it himself in a movie. When I look at a SAA from the side, I can see the firing pin protruding where it would rest on a primer and if dropped I imagine it would or could go off. But if you go one click back, or after loading, when putting the hammer back down, you release the trigger prior to it going all the way back down, it stops in that "one click back" position and the firing pin does not protrude. It won't go forward if you pull the trigger or push on the hammer.
My question is: Can't you carry it safely this way with 6 rounds and not worry about it going off if bumped or dropped?
Like I said, I'm new to SAA firearms and apologize if this is a stupid or basic question.
There's no stupid questions, IMHO, when it comes to gun safety - although there may be stupid answers.
The first cocking notch is called the "safety notch", but it's not truely safe, as a smart/heavy blow to the hammer will force the hammer all the way "down" into the fired/discharged position - resulting in an accidental discharge (AD).
If that should occur when the revolver's in your holster, you could very well have a serious problem if the fired boolitt hits your knee; or if the gun is dropped inadvertantly (and would likely land on the hammer), the barrel could very well be pointed at the dropper, or another person, when it discharges.
Ruger worked out a revolver mechanism in their post 1973 New Model SA revolvers (two pins in the lockwork ILO 3 screws) that prevents such inadvertant discharge, referred to as a "transfer bar" system, in which the hammer face cannot interact with the separate firing pin unless a transfer bar is raised when the trigger is pulled, providing the firing connection.
Some makers of SA revolvers that do not have a separate firing pin like the Ruger have used various physical safety methods/mechanism's to avoid an AD - but AFAIK all of them must be manually applied by the gun handler, and are not automatically built into the lockwork.
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Last edited by Pete44ru on Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Unless in the short term you are going to experience negative interpersonal relationship problems, always load five rounds.
How to be sure of it?
Ruger single actions (unless they're modified) - open the loading gate
Most other single actions - loading gate open, hammer to half cock
Load one round.
Skip one round.
Load four more.
On that last round and that original round comes into view, (Rugers) close the loading gate and if your hammer is at half cock (all others), pull the hammer to full cock, then gently(!) lower it down on what should be an empty chamber.
I can hear it already, the whiny, "wah, I have a Ruger and I can load six if I want." Yes you can, but why should you?
This is a good habit to be in with all single actions.
If you have an immediate problem you can't solve with five rounds, I really, seriously doubt you're gonna solve it with that sixth.
There is absolutely no reason to load a Ruger (not a 3-screw) with 5 rounds instead of six. Unless you have your finger on the trigger, causing the transfer bar to come up in front of the firing pin so the hammer can hit it, it WILL NOT FIRE. Not even if you take a hammer to the hammer.
For target shooting on the range, you can get by with 6 in a Colt (or other SAA style with no safety). But if you're carrying (riding horse or ATV) and there is any chance you could hit the hammer, or drop the revolver, keep the chamber under the firing pin empty.
"Make yourself an honest man, and then you may be sure that there is one less scoundrel in the world." - Thomas Carlyle
This comes up on other forums now and then, and often someone will blame that "Only load 5 rounds" on Ruger advertising, saying it was unknown before that,....only that isn't true.
Elmer Keith, among others wrote of it being common knowledge among older shooters when they were young, the 19-teens and before. He also said he knew of several guys that "knew better" and loaded 6, and had been shot in the leg when various things happened, saddling a horse being one of them, with the near side stirrup falling down while tightening the cinch and hitting the hammer spur, firing the gun.
Setting the firing pin down between the rims of the shells also comes up. I was pretty clever and figured that out in my 44 spl and 45 Colt SAA's. I mostly carried them in a half flap holster I made, it was a secure fit, covering the hammer spur. Several times I found the cylinder turned over and the firing pin resting on a live primer. I decided I wasn't as smart as I thought I was and went back to carrying 5 rounds. In a few "interesting" situations, I loaded it with 6 and left the hammer in its "safety" notch and just accepted the risk/benefit differential for the time being, but for general carry, stayed with 5.
I don't agree with the "6th round isn't going to make a difference", it quite possibly could. If Colt ever updated their lockwork, it would be an real improvement, Being able to carry 6 safely is one of the real advantages of the Ruger New Models over the Colt, and one I have no problem with.
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." -Theodore Roosevelt-
Isnt it amazing how many people post without reading the thread?
Malamute wrote:This comes up on other forums now and then, and often someone will blame that "Only load 5 rounds" on Ruger advertising, saying it was unknown before that,....only that isn't true.
Elmer Keith, among others wrote of it being common knowledge among older shooters when they were young, the 19-teens and before. He also said he knew of several guys that "knew better" and loaded 6, and had been shot in the leg when various things happened, saddling a horse being one of them, with the near side stirrup falling down while tightening the cinch and hitting the hammer spur, firing the gun.
Setting the firing pin down between the rims of the shells also comes up. I was pretty clever and figured that out in my 44 spl and 45 Colt SAA's. I mostly carried them in a half flap holster I made, it was a secure fit, covering the hammer spur. Several times I found the cylinder turned over and the firing pin resting on a live primer. I decided I wasn't as smart as I thought I was and went back to carrying 5 rounds. In a few "interesting" situations, I loaded it with 6 and left the hammer in its "safety" notch and just accepted the risk/benefit differential for the time being, but for general carry, stayed with 5.
I don't agree with the "6th round isn't going to make a difference", it quite possibly could. If Colt ever updated their lockwork, it would be an real improvement, Being able to carry 6 safely is one of the real advantages of the Ruger New Models over the Colt, and one I have no problem with.
Thanks. That pretty much answered my question. I didn't think the hammer could be knocked forward like that. I was pushing hard on mine, (unloaded), and it seemed solid. That is why I asked. I though maybe it was an issue in older SAA and the newer ones were different. I understand the Ruger and transfer bar system. Thanks again for the information.
My grandfather, on the rare occasions he needed a handgun in the far back days of his youth (1915-1930 or so), used an SAA. He always loaded (all) revolvers with five, even the newer DA guns that could safely load six. He taught my two oldest uncles that, who taught their kids.....most of them were still loading DA/transfer bar S&W's with five into the 1990s.
Yeah......they didn't exactly learn about modernizing with the times.
Ironic, since they always wanted the newest/greatest/best in hunting rifles.
jkbrea wrote:
Thanks. That pretty much answered my question. I didn't think the hammer could be knocked forward like that. I was pushing hard on mine, (unloaded), and it seemed solid. That is why I asked. I though maybe it was an issue in older SAA and the newer ones were different. I understand the Ruger and transfer bar system. Thanks again for the information.
You wouldn't likely be able to make it move by hand, what happens when a sufficient blows hits it, or its dropped and hits on the hammer spur, is the tip of the trigger shears off or the notch on the hammer chips out.
MrMurphy wrote:My grandfather, on the rare occasions he needed a handgun in the far back days of his youth (1915-1930 or so), used an SAA. He always loaded (all) revolvers with five, even the newer DA guns that could safely load six. He taught my two oldest uncles that, who taught their kids.....most of them were still loading DA/transfer bar S&W's with five into the 1990s.
Yeah......they didn't exactly learn about modernizing with the times.
Ironic, since they always wanted the newest/greatest/best in hunting rifles.
The Smiths don't actually have transfer bars, they have a hammer block, sort of the opposite of a transfer bar. When at rest the hammer rests on a block of steel between the hammer and frame. When cocked, that bar moves out of the way. Transfer bars fill the gap between the hammer and firing pin when cocked and the trigger held back, and allows the hammer blow to be transmitted to the firing pin. The hammer never touches the firing pin. Both work, though the Smith system seems less prone to break.
Smith improved their internal safety system in the 40's. The older type could fire when dropped on a hard surface.
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." -Theodore Roosevelt-
Isnt it amazing how many people post without reading the thread?
In CAS, It is the LAW to load only 5.
Load one,skip one chamber,load four more,cock the hammer and let it down. It will be resting on an empty chamber. Take your gun out and try it.
I have read (from folks who know) that if a Colt SAA or clone is dropped, from horseback height ,it will land on the hammer 8 out of 10 times. Many a poor sole had to learn that one the hard way.
If you were lucky and not injured but your horse was,you may have had to walk for days to get to a town.
Actually, Colt made a transfer bar version of the SAA. Called the "Cowboy" in the late '90s. American Rifleman "Dope Bag" from March 1999 had a review of it. Commercially, it was a flop. Aimed at the cowboy action market, it didn't fly. Quite a markup from the Ruger to the Cowboy, without the strength to handle Ruger loads. The main reason it fared poorly, IMO, they didn't offer it in .38Spl. Probably half the shooters in CAS prefer the .38Spl. It is both cheaper to buy factory ammo and to reload. And since there's not a "real" power factor requirement in CAS, the lower recoil of lite 38Spl loads are an definite advantage over the larger, generally heavier .44 or .45 loadings.
Griff,
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession! AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
I was able to shoot a ladies 357 Colt SAA at a shoot years ago. I asked to look at it, which she didn't mind. she asked if I wanted to shoot it. Well,... that didn't take much convincing. Her husband loaded tons of ammo for her. After I shot the first 5, she handed me a box of 100 and said "shoot them up if you'd like".
Very sweet shooting gun.
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." -Theodore Roosevelt-
Isnt it amazing how many people post without reading the thread?
Ysabel Kid , If you look at the rear of a loaded .45 Colt cylinder, there is no space between the cartridge rims for the firing pin to rest. They are virtually rim to rim with no space between.
Chuck 100 yd wrote:Ysabel Kid , If you look at the rear of a loaded .45 Colt cylinder, there is no space between the cartridge rims for the firing pin to rest. They are virtually rim to rim with no space between.
Ahaa!!!
Yes, that´s a reason!
But it would have been possible for the smaller chamberings ... but I BET they did want to push their proprietary .45 Colt ...
that I will hopefully get fixed soon.
When I look at a SAA from the side, I can see the firing pin protruding where it would rest on a primer and if dropped I imagine it would or could go off. But if you go one click back, or after loading, when putting the hammer back down, you release the trigger prior to it going all the way back down, it stops in that "one click back" position and the firing pin does not protrude. It won't go forward if you pull the trigger or push on the hammer. 
