45 90 question

[plowboy 45]

This has probably been discussed
I have a chance at a 1886 in 45 90
It will be a trade
The man wants my Browning B92 in 44 mag
My 92 is excellent condition
He says the same of his 86
Probably gonna trade if this is so
Heres the question can the 45 70 be fired in the 45 90 SUCCESSFULLY
Meaning safely

with no damage to the 86 or myself and accurate


PLOWBOY

[Ray Newman]

I have been shooting a .45-2.4" (AKA .45-90) Sharps since 1987. So you can say that I have some experience. Loaded with black powder and lead bullets, the answer is a .45-70 will fire, but with no accuracy. Tried it at 100 yards once and only one round out of five hit the target. Fouled and leaded. Another shooter also tried the same and had the same results. The extra 0.30" chamber length gathers too much fouling.

Now as for smokeless and jacketed, it might work. You might have the same problem with copper and or powder fouling due to the longer chamber, but I 'dunno'. Don't know of another .45-90 Shooter who has tried it.

Since you said that this is a trade, my thinking is that this is a Browning or other M1886 clone??

If this is an original 1886, I would not buy an original without a lengthy inspection period so you can check the factory records and/or have a knowledgeable Shooter/collector look at it. Know of more than a few Shooters who have paid big money for what are basically parts and/or refurbished guns and are not worth the money paid. Something else -- if memory serves me well enough -- the .45-90 Winchester was a designed as an express round, loaded with a 300 grain bullet. Not sure if heavier bullets would work well in an original due to the twist rate.

If you really want an 1886, I would look for a Browning 45-70 Gov't. And if a .45-90 WCF is desired, I believe Doug Turnbull and others can convert to that calibre.

[Griff]

I believe that "crs" has done this... but not so sure about successfully. We spent a day at the range, but I think I was more absorbed in my results than his...

[plowboy 45]

It is an oringal Winchester
Ill check it out close
Bout decided not to trade
Thanks

[FWiedner]

Can't the .45-90 be loaded down to .45-70 levels using .45-90 cases?

[KirkD]

If that fellow is willing to trade an original Winchester Model 1886 45-90 in 'Excellent' condition for a B92, that is a phenomenal deal for you. Of course, if it has been sanded, refinished, or cut down, or drilled, the value will plummet, but if it is in original, unmessed with condition and is in excellent condition, it is worth two or three times what your B92 is worth. If it actually is in 'excellent condition' say, 80 percent blue or more on the barrel and traces of case hardening on the receiver, then it is probably worth four or five times what your B92 is worth. You can get proper 45-90 brass from Buffalo Arms (get the Starline brass, it is first class and also inexpensive). Get yourself a proper set of dies as well. Don't mess around with 45-70 cartridges, although you can probably do decent if you use Jacketed bullets. The 45-90 was designed for a 300 grain bullet at 1,500 fps. I had one once and really enjoyed it and those big long cartridges. They look great in a cartridge belt.

[cshold]

+1 what Kirk said.
Those B92's aren't all that. (IMHO)
I traded my B92 in .357 mag. for my Winchester model 73.
Never regretted the trade.

[plowboy 45]

Dadgum
Yall got me thinkin again

[ollogger]

Dadgum
Yall got me thinkin again

im thinking you should bite on that one



ollogger

[TedH]

If its what he claims it is, there shouldn't be any thinking necessary. I'd jump on that deal.

[Shasta]

An excellent condition original '86 in trade for a Browning B92? I'd jump on that like a rooster on a june bug!

As for shooting the shorter .45-70's in the .45-90, yes, you can do it safely, but accuracy will suffer.
When I got my reproduction .45-60 Winchester 1876, it came with a bunch of loaded smokeless powder ammo that would not chamber because the rims of the Starline .45-70 cases used to form the .45-60 cases were too thick. The .45-60 case is 1.89" long, so I fired all of them in my reproduction 1886 Winchester .45-70 (2.1" case) takedown rifle just to get the brass emptied out so I could thin the rims. Accuracy was very poor and the 1886 rifle's chamber was very dirty and hard to clean.
Proper .45-90 brass is available, and that is what you should use if you decide to get that rifle. (and I sincerely hope you do!).

SHASTA

[crs]

Griff is right and has a good memory for an old guy!

Plowboy,
Yes you can! I have done a lot of it and it is similar to shooting .38 special in a .357 magnum which I have also done a lot.
In both cases (pun intended) after shooting .45-70 it is advised to clean the chamber before shooting .45-90. Same for 38 and 357.
When I first bought my Miroku made Winchester 1886 .45-90, I shot many different brands and weights of factory .45-70 ammo(including cowboy action ammo) and chronographed all of them. I have also taken deer, pronghorn, blackbuck, etc with the Winchester 300 grain Nosler protected points and they are my choice for .45-70 hunting ammo in my .45-90. Some other brands were also accurate, but I prefer the Nosler PP bullets as they are devastating on game.

Ignore anyone who comments on this issue unless they can back it up with chronograph and shot group records as I did and posted! If you want the full Monte, do some searches on this site of my several posts on the subject 5 - 6 years ago.

BTW, I also shot all available factory .45-90 ammo from 300 cowboy to 500 grain 45-90 Sharps (yes they will shoot in an 1886, so don't say they won't). Ricky and 86er and I have loaded and shot some serious ammo in my 1886 .45-90 ( reason I bought it rather than a .45-70) and it has take a number of BIG game, including Bison, Ele, leopard, and cape buff with 450 grain FMJ at 2150 fps. Actually the leopard 86er shot was with 300 grain Nosler PP hand loaded to 2200 fps. That was documented on this forum also.

In my rifle, the .45-70 is as accurate as the .45-90. That may not be true for all rifles, but it should be true for all Miroku 1886 rifles because of the twist 1/20 or so - yes, I measured and documented that that too. IIRC, the early 1886 rifles were rifled to stabilize 300 grain bullets and may not have shot heavier bullets as accurately whether from .45-70 case or .45-90 case.

I hope this tirade clarified some issues for you, but it is getting late and I am tired so that is all I have to say on it. Have fun with you 1886 if you do get it.

[hayabusa]

Do it for sure.

busa

[plowboy 45]

Seems this guy was pullin my leg
Won't answer his phone now
Won't answer text messages either
Hope nothin has happened to him

[Sixgun]

Not quite sure if I have the credentials to answer that question. I've been shooting 45-70's out of several different 1886 Winchesters in 45-90 for only 39 years. Bought my first 86 in 45-90 back in '75.

Sure you can do it and it was common practice back in the day as the price of 45-90 ammo costs more.
While I have done it many times, I don't make a practice out of it for several reasons, all not worth the twenty minutes it would take me to type it out.

When I bought that first 45-90 back in 75, there was no such thing as brass for the 45-90 and heating and drawing 45-70 was just beginning to become commercialized. I remember going to a fine antique gunshow and paying a buck apiece for 40 original 45-90 loaded cartridges of varying makes of which most was blackpowder They all went bang.

I never noticed any significant difference in accuracy between the two lengths of brass.

Oh! By the way, 45-70's feed just fine too. -------6

Oh! Another "by the way"........the barrel on that original 1886 is worth more than the whole Browning.....grab it.

[M. M. Wright]

I too have an original 86 in 45-90 and realized a week or so ago that I had traded off my last 45-70. Still have a couple hundred 45-70s loaded up so I guess I'll find out how they shoot in my 86.

[2X22]

Seems this guy was pullin my leg
Won't answer his phone now
Won't answer text messages either
Hope nothin has happened to him

Heh, he probably figured out he would come out waaaaaay last in that trade!

I traded a NIB M70 .458 win mag for an original '86 in 45-90 made in 1891, straight across. Until the very end when he finally left, I thought the fellow was going to come to his senses and suddenly realize what his gun was worth, but he had a moose trip planned and needed a big rifle and the '86 was his only gun, his dad gave it to him before passing on. I felt bad but he was adamant he needed that M70 and when he left, he was happy and I thought I was going to throw up, I was so excited!

With 20-20 hindsight, you should have jumped on the trade instantly and without a second thought. Deals like that are once in a lifetime. Though this one other time I swapped a well shot Red Label 12ga straight across for a '71 in about 99% condition straight across......

[Ray Newman]

Sixgun: back in the mid-late 1970’s what were 1886’s going for? Remember seeing them around, but unfortunately I never took an interest.

My interest in single shots and lever guns was rekindled when I transitioned from muzzleloaders to black powder cartridge rifles in the mid 1980’s.
At that time, the Smart Money advised me to get into 1886’s and 1892’s. But regrettably, I never got around to it….

[Sixgun]

Sixgun: back in the mid-late 1970’s what were 1886’s going for? Remember seeing them around, but unfortunately I never took an interest.

My interest in single shots and lever guns was rekindled when I transitioned from muzzleloaders to black powder cartridge rifles in the mid 1980’s.
At that time, the Smart Money advised me to get into 1886’s and 1892’s. But regrettably, I never got around to it….

Ray,
I bought my first 1886 in 45-90 in 1974 for $400. It was a standard round barreled gun with approx. 60-70% original condition. Killed a few deer with it in the 70's and finally blew it up in 2003 working up loads for elk season with 1800 rounds logged out of it.

In '76 I bought another 86, a standard lightweight in .33 to which I also paid $400 for. Did not know much on horse trading in those days so I paid the asking price. Killed a big truckload of deer and one elk with that one all with the 200 grain Hornady and 42 gr. of 3031.

A real nice 86 in those days could be had for 800-1000, especially the later lightweights and extra lightweights....I mean guns in 95-99 % condition. Case colored examples usually brought at least a grand if they still had colors.-----6

[plowboy 45]

Haven't heard from this man anymore
Maybe he'll come back around

[Richardx]

Plowboy, I hope you find him--MidwayUSA has .45-90 brass in stock!

[plowboy 45]

Just heard from him, he's now afraid the barrel has been cut off a little, wera suppose to meet him and his wife for supper 2nite, and look it over, he said he wanted to be sure he didn't get over on me, I think he don't even have the rifle
seems he tells some large tales