Stock finishing - Wetsanding first coat of oil finish

[FatJackDurham]

I got a little cash recently so I finally ordered some replacement stocks for my Stevens Favorite and my Rolling Block No.1. Both of those stocks were oversanded by me to some degree and I have always wanted to try to do them better.

While reading up on stock finishing, I saw a couple of posts and videos on the Truoil finish where they wetsand the first coat of the finish with the oil finish to fill the grain with sawdust and oil finish as a kind of filler.

Has anyone done this before? How does it work? For some reason when I did my RB No.5, I had missed this option and most of my frustration in finishing was based around the deep grain.

I'd appreciate your feed back so I can consider this step.

I also see truoil or linseed oil applied by hand, litterally without a rag or gloves. Has anyone done this? Any irritation or negative results on the skin?

[BrentD]

You know you are treading into haunted waters where the "science" of it all is less than the "art" of the process. That may not make sense now, but as you do more of it, it may come to be that way for you.

The wet-sand method is a good one, and at the base of most finishing techniques that are worth a darn. But how and when is something you have to learn by experimentation and repeated attempts. That said, you can't hurt much trying, at least you can't hurt much that isn't repairable.

I am certainly no expert, but I do all my own wood finishing and I think I am halfway decent at it. I could post some pictures as examples but that won't get you where you need to go, so I'll post a few suggestions instead.

1. Wet sanding and pore filling with really large open grain is very doable but can, over years of time, lead to shrinkage of the filling in the pores causing them to reappear. For this reason, you might consider wet sanding with a rottenstone slurry with your finish. This is done in the early stages (but usually NOT the first coat).

2. Find a bottle of Pilkington's finish. The finish is good stuff, but the simple directions that are laid out in the package are worth the price of the bottle. The directions work with ANY oil-based finish. They encompass the theory behind what is being done, not just a military march of step-wise directions.

3. An oil that has a little polyurethane in it will last longer than a straight oil. Laurel Mountain Forge Permalyn is a favorite. You can get it at places like trackoftehwolf.com for instance.

4. There is an old adage about gun finishing referring to the process as
Once a day for a week.
Once a week for a month.
Once a month for a year.
And, once a year for life.

The old adage is not strictly true, but it makes the point that early on you can add coats pretty quickly to build up a layer, w/o worry of washing off what you did with the previous coat. But as the finish gets built up, the layers become a little thinner and the solvents in the finish may lift the previous coat right off, leaving you exactly where you started with the current coat. So, extra dry time is needed as you proceed. And last, these finishes are never truly "done". They continue to cure for a long time and need occasional, but regular updating. I have had one rifle with original finish that dated back to ~1830. It was a beautiful but well used rifle that had been regularly treated like this and, for that reason, maintained its original beauty while receiving a new battle scar or two every season. So, a gun's finish is a life-long process. Think of it that way and it will last you forever and always improve with age.
Once a month for a year.

[7.62 Precision]

I would not mess with Tru-Oil, it is not a true oil and will not give you the penetration you want. I generally don't seal the grain that way, and don't go finer than 220 grit in sanding prior to finishing. If I do seal the grain, I do it after several coats of oil, because sealing the grain that way also prevents deep penetration of the oil, so we want to stabilize the wood with the oil first, and seal alter in the process once we are less concerned about sealing and more concerned about the surface finish. If the oil is applied correctly, it can fill the grain and smooth the surface itself, depending on the type of oil. If I want a smoother finish, I will sometimes sand with fine grit memory cloth without using the oil to make a slurry, and that gives good results, with the final coats of oil filling the pores.

If you do wet-sand to make a slurry, make sure you don't let any dry on the stock or it will be a mess that can get worse and worse if you deal with it incorrectly.

[92&94]

There are lots of ways to finish wood, the important criteria for deciding how are what you want for end results and how much time you want to spend.

Tru oil is ok stuff, but not great. It's marketing success lies in its being easy to get consistent results with it, and coming in bottles small enough to do a stock or two. Other than that, it is basically a thinned down varnish. You could use the same techniques with some urethane and paint thinner and get similar results.

I too prefer to get several coats of a real oil on the stock before filling the pores. On walnut, I like linseed oil, because it stays nice and dark and doesn't tend to lighten with exposure to sunlight. Thin it well and it will penetrate nicely, maybe 3/4 thinner first coat, decreasing to 1/2 as you apply successive coats.

Linseed oil, or any other oil, is not a film finish though. If you want a film you have to apply something like tru oil over it. I prefer some stuff called Waterlox, but any wiping varnish will build a film. Waterlox comes in quarts and gallons, and it does not keep, so it's only useful if you use a lot of it. I find it a bit easier to use than tru oil, but that could be nothing more than practice.

I've also tried a method that uses pumice powder and finish oil to fill the pores and give you a surface similar to wet sanded. Results are great, but it does take much longer than sanding. There are also products like Pore 'O Pac that you paint on and squeege-ee off to fill pores. Basically a very fine powder in a volatile carrier fluid.

If you want to do the tru-oil/wet sand route, I would suggest first using something like Pore 'O Pac, it will save you a lot of time. You can get it at places like Woodcraft and Lee Valley Tools, though the actual product name/brand may be different. Grain filler is pretty much grain filler though.

[Mescalero]

92 & 94
We are going to have to get together and collaborate on a stock making deal.
I have a Rossi in .44 mag.
What have you got that could use walnut replacement?

[92&94]

That Rossi m92 rifle of mine needs walnut and a shorter fore end. Then my old rusty 1894 rifle could use new wood too, though until I reblue it, a nice stock is going to look like lipstick on an old rifle

Drop me a line if you're headed to the ranch this summer. I'm kinda stuck here taking care of the wife's pets while she's off visiting relatives and stuff.

[BrentD]

If you like making your own, roughly equal parts of boiled linseed oil, oil-based spar varnish and mineral spirits or turpentine (the latter being slower to cure). I've done a few stocks this way and some furniture.

Personally, I find pore filling with rottenstone to be about 10x faster than just using oil finish and wood dust slurry. And it holds up better to boot. Some checkerers won't love you for it, but I've had others that are not particularly concerned about it.

[FatJackDurham]

I am a little confused about the rottenstone. I thought that was used to lightly sand the finish to make it glossy. Are you saying you actually mix it with the linseed oil and let it fill in the pores?

The stocks I am getting are coming from gunstocksinc.com. They are going to be the standard grain, and not fancy, so I expect there will be some deep pores.

I would like a smooth, but high gloss finish for the Rolling Block, and probably a satin or flat finish for the Steven's. Someday, I will re-build the rolling block again to a super fancy gun, and I want to be able to do those high class finishes.

I have linseed oil, tung oil, spar urethane and mineral spirits at my disposal. I thought to do the Stevens in linseed oil to let it get nice and dark over time, but I don't know what I will do with the Remington yet.

[BrentD]

I am a little confused about the rottenstone. I thought that was used to lightly sand the finish to make it glossy. Are you saying you actually mix it with the linseed oil and let it fill in the pores?

Yes and yes. It is used for both purposes.

The stocks I am getting are coming from gunstocksinc.com. They are going to be the standard grain, and not fancy, so I expect there will be some deep pores.

I would like a smooth, but high gloss finish for the Rolling Block, and probably a satin or flat finish for the Steven's. Someday, I will re-build the rolling block again to a super fancy gun, and I want to be able to do those high class finishes.

I have linseed oil, tung oil, spar urethane and mineral spirits at my disposal. I thought to do the Stevens in linseed oil to let it get nice and dark over time, but I don't know what I will do with the Remington yet.

TruOil is just tung oil to the best of my knowledge- good stuff though. It can work very well. If you want a high gloss finish it will get you there as will the Permalyn and the Pilkingtons. It is more a matter of practice and patience.

The top two are done with Permalyn. The middle one has rottenstone filler in the pores. They could be glossier if I wanted them that way, but these are rifles that are used very hard, so I like a satin or semigloss finish. In any case, it should never look thick - as sometimes happens with folks that want high gloss finished. Maintaining flat surfaces and edges is critical of course.

send an email to brentd@iastate.edu and I'll send you some things written by other people - pros who are far above and beyond the average full-time gunsmith and build custom rifles of the highest quality. These article can give you some good ideas.

[7.62 Precision]

Tru-Oil is basically a varnish that acts like an oil in application, but not in benefits. Its success is in marketing and that fact that everyone swears by it due to the marketing.

[Mescalero]

OK, I am not ready yet; but a trip is in order this year.
There is a place in Oregon we can get walnut blanks from.

[92&94]

I am a little confused about the rottenstone. I thought that was used to lightly sand the finish to make it glossy. Are you saying you actually mix it with the linseed oil and let it fill in the pores?

There are three grades available, 2F tripoli, 4F tripoli, and rottenstone. The tripolis are pumice powder (volcanic glass), whereas rottenstone is a silicious limestone and much less aggressive.
Generally, you use the coarsest (2F) mixed with a drying oil for grain filling, after a few coats of the oil alone. It's rubbed on the stock using a felt pad (those 1" furniture feet work well, doesn't have to be cotton felt). I usually stick the pad to my fingers and dip the face in oil, then use the wet pad to pick up some abrasive. Keep using the 2F until the pores are pretty well stuffed and the wood is nice and smooth, then switch to 4F for a while, followed by rottenstone. I find the process pretty tedious, 600 grit paper is a lot faster.

I have linseed oil, tung oil, spar urethane and mineral spirits at my disposal. I thought to do the Stevens in linseed oil to let it get nice and dark over time, but I don't know what I will do with the Remington yet.

Any of those three will make a nice finish. The oils will look less glossy but can really look good buffed out as above and then waxed. You can also apply a couple coats of linseed oil initially and finish off with a wiping varnish (thinned urethane). As long as there isn't an excess of linseed underneath you get the color of an oil and the durability of a film.

I had understood tru oil to be a catalyzed soy oil varnish - but it's hard to find specifics of such products.

[92&94]

OK, I am not ready yet; but a trip is in order this year.
There is a place in Oregon we can get walnut blanks from.

I like this guy for blanks too:
http://www.clarowalnutgunstocks.com/
Owner is getting on in years, so he now only likes to ship 2-3 blanks at a time. He'd still ship a pallet a just few years ago, but I never had the money for that

Is the place in Oregon Goby Walnut? Their stuff looks nice but I've never bought any.

I usually have a walnut plank or two from the regular lumber yard around too. Not as thick as an official stock blank, but 8/4 will work fine for a lever gun stock.

[Mescalero]

Yep, Goby.
They have nice stuff and plain stuff.

[OLBIKER]

Minwax stain and sealer.Minwax tunq oil.Life is good.

[FatJackDurham]

OK, I am not ready yet; but a trip is in order this year.
There is a place in Oregon we can get walnut blanks from.

OH! I would love to partake in that adventure!!!! If you wouldn't mind meeting me in person....

[Pete44ru]

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FWIW, I've been refinishing wood gunstock with TruOil for about 40 years now, for both my & other folk's guns, with excellent results in both the finish look and in long-term Fall/Winter hunting weather performance.

Additionally, more than a few gunshow dealers have accepted (bought) rifles that I refinished, as having an excellent original finish.

Whether the wood's stained or not, the trick is to let each coat dry thoroughly (usually overnite), before OOOO steel-wooling each coat down/off to seal the wood pores (pulling the steel wool dust off the rubbed-down wood with a magnet) - which finish can be done with as few as 4 coats after the initial coat of TO (although I typically use 5-6 coats, depending upon the density of a particular stock's wood).

I apply that crutial first coat manually, by dunking one fingertip into the TO to slightly load the finger, then start rubbing it into the wood (circularly & back/forth) - BUT, I learned to only rub in a sopt the size of a US Quarter (coin) before gradually expanding the rubbed area from the size of a quarter to no more than the area of a US (paper) Dollar bill.

I keep rubbing that area until the fingertip rubs itself dry (you can hear a faint "squeek"), before getting another fingertip of TO & start on an adjascent area the same way as the first.
I keep going, area by area, until the entire stock has received one coat of TO - then I put it up to dry overnite. (Even though the stock may feel dry, it isn't)

YMMV, of course - Which is what makes a "horse race".


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[Mescalero]

FatJack,
Not sure I understand you.

[Pete44ru]

FatJack,
Not sure I understand you.

He's asking you for a date, silly.....................



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[FatJackDurham]

FatJack,
Not sure I understand you.

You said you want to go up to oregon to get some stock blanks. I'd love to go on an adventure to oregon.....

Never mind......

Rejection hurts.....

[Mescalero]

Sorry, I meant to imply we could order blanks from them; and then go in my shop and fire up the 1 to 1 duplicater and make stocks.

[FatJackDurham]

Bummer. Road trip canceled.