POLITICS - This makes me angry!

Post by **Hobie** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:00 pm

http://xavierthoughts.blogspot.com/2008 ... ymore.html

LeverBob · Post by **LeverBob** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:37 pm

Hobie wrote:http://xavierthoughts.blogspot.com/2008 ... ymore.html

I hear ya' pard. It seems to me that the lesson learned is that a group of citizens armed & ready can turn away a squad of govt. goons. The only official that displayed any common sense was the officer who put the kabosh on the goons, realizing that it would be a bloodbath-theirs. At least in that case there was one person who knew that they were out of bounds & stopped it. Thus, saving his own life...and the goosesteppers. I think he knew what could happen if they had fired upon the Citizens.

The local officials & LEO'S tried, but didn't carryout their mandate from the people. The feds are getting out of hand & needed to be reigned in, the state officials didn't do what they should have., which is to take control in these situations.

What say you?

LeverBob

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:47 pm

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:48 pm

That's seriously messed up.

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:06 pm

What did Reagan say? The most feared words in the English language? "I'm with the government and I'm here to help".

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:29 pm

They sure kept that one quiet.........

piller · Post by **piller** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:50 pm

The Governors in Kansas have been extremely anti-gun since about 1994 when Joan Finney left office. The Governor who followed her, the son of the Graves Truck Line founder, was frightened of the shotgun Ithaca had given to Kansas with Joan Finney's name engraved on it even though it was locked un a vault in the basement. He tried to have it destroyed, but the Kansas State Senate told him he couldn't. Mrs. Finney was allowed to purchase the shotgun. Kathleen Sebelius is the current Governor, and she vetoed the Right to Carry legislation. She is the first Governor to have a veto overridden in nearly 50 years. Kansas has a lot of good people, but it has a Governor who couldn't find her moral compass with both hands, a map, a GPS unit, and a dozen Eagle Scouts.

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 12:35 am

I once dated a girl from Kansas, and a fine lass she was; Debra.
But even back then, I could see that herd mentality in her, she went by the wayside.

Jaguarundi · Post by **Jaguarundi** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 1:08 am

Once upon a time a country referred to as the "Evil Empire" confiscated the firearms of citzens of the republic of georgia.The name of this now defunct autocracy was the USSR (soviet union for short)....

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 1:24 am

Just for historical acuracy:
that would be The Union of Soviet Socialistic Republics

Post by **Old Savage** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 1:38 am

Much the same thing was done here to a fellow with leukemia from a neightbors cmplaint of his disoriented reaction to his meds. Following his death when his father got his guns back years later they were stacked in the back of a pickup with the kind of damage you might anticipate.

Jaguarundi · Post by **Jaguarundi** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 2:29 am

mescalero1 wrote:Just for historical acuracy:
that would be The Union of Soviet Socialistic Republics

Союз Советских Социалистических Республик=CCCP=Советский Союз

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 6:26 am

It's gonna be ugly should they come knocking. I talk often with a friend from England and I just can't fathom allowing the Govt to come and get my guns. Perhaps because I was serving the Govt for all those years in the military but I just don't see it happening in my home, not without bad things happening. It is a slippery hill we are going down.

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 7:13 am

rjohns94 wrote:It's gonna be ugly should they come knocking. I talk often with a friend from England and I just can't fathom allowing the Govt to come and get my guns. Perhaps because I was serving the Govt for all those years in the military but I just don't see it happening in my home, not without bad things happening. It is a slippery hill we are going down.

Live on one's knees or die on one's feet. I know which one I'd choose. I have no delusions that I could stop the government single-handed, but I don't think I could look my children and future grandchildren in the eye after just rolling over and giving them up - knowing I was too cowardly to fight for their freedoms. Maybe a few patriots laying down their lives would change the course of history - it has happened before...

pdawg.shooter · Post by **pdawg.shooter** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 7:54 am

I think that when they come for my firearms they best bring there lunch with them, they will get there full 8 hours in for sure.

brucew44guns · Post by **brucew44guns** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:08 am

[quo

te="BlaineG"]They sure kept that one quiet.........

[/quote]

They sure did keep that one quiet, I live pretty close to where this happened, and never until now heard about all this. When a tornado comes through, why is the law mostly concerned about your guns? Go figure.

brucew44guns · Post by **brucew44guns** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:15 am

piller wrote:The Governors in Kansas have been extremely anti-gun since about 1994 when Joan Finney left office. The Governor who followed her, the son of the Graves Truck Line founder, was frightened of the shotgun Ithaca had given to Kansas with Joan Finney's name engraved on it even though it was locked un a vault in the basement. He tried to have it destroyed, but the Kansas State Senate told him he couldn't. Mrs. Finney was allowed to purchase the shotgun. Kathleen Sebelius is the current Governor, and she vetoed the Right to Carry legislation. She is the first Governor to have a veto overridden in nearly 50 years. Kansas has a lot of good people, but it has a Governor who couldn't find her moral compass with both hands, a map, a GPS unit, and a dozen Eagle Scouts.

I believe that Graves vetoed the Right to Carry on 2 occasions before he left office just before Sebelius, he was a 2 termer. Plenty of Kansas gun people, and the legislative branch seems pro-gun, but the big brass follow the ones like Chuck Schumer.

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:18 am

Does it really surprise some of you guys that Law Enforcement Officers (LEOs) would drive people from their homes at gun-point and confiscate firearms? Look at Katrina -- same thing happened and despite a new law and a favorable ruling from a Federal Judge that confiscating firearms from private citizens in conditions such as Katrina and these tornados is unconstitutional these LEOs confiscated/removed firearms anyway. You can not be legally forced from your home but evidently LEOs had no problem forcing people off their property upon orders by their superiors. They (LEOs) would rather keep their jobs so as to pay their mortgages and feed the wife and kiddies rather than uphold the law. That's why when told to do so, they will come for your guns.

Don't get me wrong. I support LEOs in most of what they do and appreciate the tough job they have and the tough conditions that they work in but you have to take a look around and see who it is exactly that's doing the things referenced in the link.

gary rice · Post by **gary rice** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:00 am

Hobie wrote:http://xavierthoughts.blogspot.com/2008 ... ymore.html

i read about this this morning. this stuff has to stop and right now. time for the people to take a stand.

claybob86 · Post by **claybob86** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 7:22 am

Here's some info about this from one of our guys who was there. Check Jengels' post on this thread:

http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewtopic.php?t=5525

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 7:45 am

I saw Jengles post & it does put things in a different light.
Except I dont think it right to keep people off their property even if its unsafe, its is theirs & if after being advised of potential dangers they wanted to go check out their property, stay in their home or just pitch a tent where the house used to be, That should be the end of it. IMO anyway.

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:18 am

Leverdude wrote:I saw Jengles post & it does put things in a different light.
Except I dont think it right to keep people off their property even if its unsafe, its is theirs & if after being advised of potential dangers they wanted to go check out their property, stay in their home or just pitch a tent where the house used to be, That should be the end of it. IMO anyway.

Without a doubt agreed. I'd like to see where the legal authority comes from to do so. I don't believe it exists, it is just assumed, or usurped to use a better term.

I'll say this, Jengel, you gave us another side of the story and I'm not going to call you a liar, but as they say all myths have their roots in some sort of truth. And after Ruby Ridge, Waco, NOLA, Reds trading post etc, I and a lot of others have no problem accepting that LEO and feds are very capable of running roughshod over the very people they work for and can justify any amount of stepping on their Constitutional rights as "just doing their job". We can accept it because they have proven it. Anyone who uses that excuse is a coward.

Anyone who violates a citizens rights in any minute amount, and excuses it as "just doing my job" is a coward.

Here are the facts gentlemen. There are thousands of cops who violate the 2nd and 4th amendment every single day, and their reasoning is "just doing their job". A badge does not grant anyone superior morals or superior anything. What is does grant is power, and an assumption of "authority". Cops are not "authority", they are public servants, peace keepers, etc. Or they're supposed to be anyway.

The current perception many folks share of the leo community was not made up. That perception was earned by the leo, and it's up to them to change it, so until the whole thin blue line goes away and cops stop protecting criminals with badges or excusing unConstitutional behavior, it is not ever going to change, and that is the fault of leo, not the civilians.

We saw a very blatant excercise of this with cops coming from all over the country to join in on the outright abuse of law abiding citizens at NOLA. This was not isolated, it was a consensus. These men were representative of the overall mentality I have experienced as an EMS personnel, and 42 years of living. They were a cross section of LEO in this country and an example of what they are not just willing to do, but eager to do. Those are documented facts that cannot be justified away. Not one LEO or any one else involved in the NOLA incident has spoken out against it. I wont even go into the private contractors being given police powers.

When you give a 24 year old kid with no real life experience a gun and a badge and tell him "your in charge", and he pulls over a 50 year old who has forgotten more than that snot nosed kid in the patrol car knows, and starts talking down to him about being 10 over the speed limit, you are not doing anything to engender respect, you are losing it. Those are the facts, like it or not.

When you have a young couple driving through a speed trap in the desert,and the cop gets upset and escalates the situation, and the young man ends up being maced and arrested for arguing with the cop, and it's all caught on tape, and nothing is done about it, you have abuse of authority and crime aganst a civilian. But of course the officer was just "doing his job" and the gentleman "refused a lawfull order".

So, until leo start remebering the rights of the people they work for and respecting them, we are going to continue to have a problem. And I don't see that happening because the type of people going into LE are doing it for all the wrong reasons. Want a laugh? Walk into a college campus criminal justice class and take a look.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:24 am

Modoc ED wrote:Does it really surprise some of you guys that Law Enforcement Officers (LEOs) would drive people from their homes at gun-point and confiscate firearms? ...

No.

At least not when it comes to people who put "Law ENFORCEMENT" over Policing.

IMO a Good Cop doesn't consider himself an "enforcer". It's up to a Jury to Enforce (i.e. apply consequences) a law. A Peace Officer is not an Enforcer... and he/she knows it and behaves accordingly.

(edit: Yes, I saw Jengel's thread. I tend to agree with his assessment of THAT EVENT. But I also stand by my generalization.

)

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:43 am

Leverdude wrote:I saw Jengles post & it does put things in a different light.
Except I dont think it right to keep people off their property even if its unsafe, its is theirs & if after being advised of potential dangers they wanted to go check out their property, stay in their home or just pitch a tent where the house used to be, That should be the end of it. IMO anyway.

Too straight forward and simple. Goes against everything our governement is made of.

But I here and agree brother.

Johnny

Jeeps · Post by **Jeeps** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:07 pm

brucew44guns wrote:
BlaineG wrote:They sure kept that one quiet.........

They sure did keep that one quiet, I live pretty close to where this happened, and never until now heard about all this. When a tornado comes through, why is the law mostly concerned about your guns? Go figure.

What the MEDIA does not want you to hear about, chances are you wont unless a
good citizen with a big mouth can get the word out.

This is the same media that can make our troops look bad but for some reason
can't let the people know when their Bill of Rights gets mowed down within
our own borders.

The first ones to lament the interrupted burning of the flag. Saying some
idiot had their FIRST AMENDMENT rights pooped on by an emotional person.
But the last ones let you know a whole population was denied their SECOND AMENDMENT
rights were OBLITERATED by our own Government.

MEDIA MEDIA MEDIA MEDIA

POLITICS - This makes me angry!

POLITICS - This makes me angry!

Re: POLITICS - This makes me angry!

Re: POLITICS - This makes me angry!