A 10 Pound, 10 Oz. Ruger #1 In 45-70

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Sat May 03, 2014 11:36 am

I tell 'ya, wonders never sieze. I never knew these things existed. Got a call yesterday, and my bud tells me, "you got to see this Ruger, it's huge".

Well, you guys know the rest of the story, yes, it followed me home and there was no way of sneaking this baby in the house. I dang near needed a hand truck. The solid walnut case it came in, the accoutrements, gun and scope weighs 49 and a half pounds. And of all the rotten luck, when I pulled in the driveway, there's my wife's Jeep.......so I bit my tongue, put on a false look, and waltzed through the BACK door and there she was.......standing there with an evil look......that nasty Italian look.

Oh well, I've been through this before.

Anyway, on to the fun things in life. The Good Lord has blessed me in many ways and along with an super son and daughter......and a sometimes understanding wife, .......He has granted me permission to use that giant funnel in the sky that drops off all kinds of neat old guns to my homestead, not to mention that He has given me clearance to set the filters on that funnel to weed out the junk, and only allow the "good stuff" to pass through. Yea, I got a head that is bigger than a watermelon right now and it shows through in my words. But.....I am who I am and I've been called a "straight shooter" by many, even Griff.

Oh! The Ruger..........It's some sort of a joint venture by Ruger and Lyman back in 1978. It has the #1 action with a 28" heavy barrel and they made 1,000 of these. Mine is serial number 262. The scope is a 34 inch 4 power Lyman that is serial numbered to the gun.

In the fitted walnut case there is a Lyman mould (457193...405 gr. PB) with special markings and handles. A 3 die set of Lyman 45-70 dies, complete with their "m" die, along with a box of nickel plated, specially marked brass. There's a high dollar cleaning rod that's fitted into the case. A 222 page book that's loaded with historic pictures, loading data, "how to" from the old days, modern data.....all kinds of neat stuff that gonna keep me busy for a month or so.

Best of all, the previous owner was gracious to keep this Ruger unfired since 1978 so I can let the gun know what's it's like to send several hundred pounds of lead down the barrel.

No fear at all with this gun. It will eat any load that can be stuffed in it.

And next best of all, our gunclub has started "buffalo shoots" and even has a scoped classification for the old heads who need such things. I'll use the old 40-82 Hi-Wall for the open sigh category and this baby for the scoped classification.------6

Specially marked mould and brass......yea, I see that rust in the mould.

arjunky · Post by **arjunky** » Sat May 03, 2014 11:46 am

Very cool

Byron

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Sat May 03, 2014 11:56 am

Buffalo?

But... That's a deer rifle.

They put pictures on the side to tell ya so.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sat May 03, 2014 12:02 pm

I've heard of those. First one I've seen....Very, very cool.....

Borregos · Post by **Borregos** » Sat May 03, 2014 12:21 pm

That is really something, you did well there

BrentD · Post by **BrentD** » Sat May 03, 2014 12:50 pm

Man, I hope you got a good price - it doesn't even have a hammer!

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Sat May 03, 2014 2:07 pm

BrentD wrote:Man, I hope you got a good price - it doesn't even have a hammer!

mmmmmm........got me thinking on that one. Now, how am I going to convince the guys that this rifle is "legal" to shoot in the matches, where, I think the guns need to have exposed hammers. mmmmmmm......I know, I'll just temporary glue an old 1886 hammer I have to the side of the receiver. People really don't pay attention to such things.

Na. these buffalo matches are all play and not an NRA rules match. We make the rules up as we go along. More fun that way.

How much I paid? a grand plus some odd gunsmithing jobs that he wants me to do.----------6

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sat May 03, 2014 2:16 pm

1. That's the first gun-picture in a while that literally had me drop my jaw. Wow.

I think that is the perfect 45-70. (My Guide Gun is going to get bumped down a notch if/when I get the Spike Driver anyway).

2. What's a look down that type of scope like...?

BrentD · Post by **BrentD** » Sat May 03, 2014 2:55 pm

I had a Martin 577-450 once that I just taped a cardboard cutout hammer to the side of the receiver. That worked okay and didn't feel too self conscious about it. But thumb did get fat and lazy with all the time off.

Montana Outfitters · Post by **Montana Outfitters** » Sat May 03, 2014 3:04 pm

REMEMBER THE PRICE TANKS ONCE THESE START GETTING SHOT AND ARE HARD TO GET RID OF
AS NOW THEY DON'T COMMAND THE NIB VALUE.........THIS IS FROM EXPERIENCE AND OWNING 5 OF THESE IN THE LAST 15 YEARS OR SO NOT BEING RUDE OR PUTTING THESE GREAT SHOOTING RIFLES
DOWN A BIT BUT IF NEW IN THE BOX THEY HAVE VALUE SO THINK BEFORE YOU SHOOT BECAUSE
YOU CANT HIDE THE NEW RIFLE FROM BEING USED................

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Sat May 03, 2014 3:05 pm

Doc,
I hear ya. Me too. Every now and then a gun comes before you that "you just HAVE to have", and this was one of those times. And I've reached the age where it takes a lot to get me excited.

The scope? According to the book that comes with the gun, the optics in the scope were 50 years old, so that means they were made in the late 1920's which translates into my next sentence.

The clarity of old optics is like looking through the windshield of your grandfather's 1953 Buick. They suck, but ....are usable. Today's optics are the pelosi and it's hard to go back in time on this issue.

Pictured below is my old 1909 produced special order 1885 Winchester Lo-wall in .22 L.R. with an original 5 power 36" Stevens scope, which at the time, was considered top dollar. The clarity of this scope is about equal to the one on the Ruger. The field of view is also very small.----6

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Sat May 03, 2014 3:10 pm

Trade ya for a 1954 model 336 with a new stock.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Sat May 03, 2014 3:17 pm

Montana Outfitter,
True, but the gun is not exactly a pre war Winchester. It's a Ruger. If kept clean with minimal wear, it will still be a 98% gun. I'll let my heirs worry about the paltry $500 loss.

In fact, as the years go by it will only lose the interest that could have been made if put in the bank. But it ain't no fun looking at bank statements.----6

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Sat May 03, 2014 3:23 pm

TedH wrote:Trade ya for a 1954 model 336 with a new stock.

Ted,
Sounds like a plan, but you have to be here with the gun within15 minutes.

On another note, Targetmaster just got in 2 more of those 336 Marlins, but these were made in the sixties. The first one sold that day (Thursday.) at $249 and the other is still there.-----6

guido4198 · Post by **guido4198** » Sat May 03, 2014 4:07 pm

What's the barrel twist...????
If it's fast enough...you might give some 500's a try for the real long shots.
PLEASE tell me you're going to load black powder in that beauty....

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Sat May 03, 2014 4:14 pm

I remmember when Ruger-Lyman brought that set out . Always wanted one I might add !

Marlinman93 had one a few years back , but he sold it . Think he liquidated to get funds for something else .

OldWin · Post by **OldWin** » Sat May 03, 2014 5:21 pm

Hey Jack,

That was an awesome score bro! You definitely live right.
There's no way I could keep from shooting that thing. Dont worry about the mould, a little Kroil and 4 aught steel wool and she'll be good as new.

Let us know how she shoots.

Jay

Nazgul · Post by **Nazgul** » Sat May 03, 2014 7:11 pm

Wow! I remember these!

Good score.
Don

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Sat May 03, 2014 10:48 pm

guido4198 wrote:What's the barrel twist...????
If it's fast enough...you might give some 500's a try for the real long shots.
PLEASE tell me you're going to load black powder in that beauty....

No, I hate BP. I'm a man of little patience. 26-27 grains of 5744 will give me the same velocity without the mess.

As for the 500's, your right on the money. Got a 500 RCBS gas check mould that needs to be broken in and tomorrow looks like the day. I hear these Rugers have a bit of freeborn in them so I'll have to seat these bullets out as far as possible.

This is going to be an interesting rifle to work with.

----6

GonnePhishin · Post by **GonnePhishin** » Sun May 04, 2014 12:24 am

WOW, that sure is a pruty lookin' smoke pole

guido4198 · Post by **guido4198** » Sun May 04, 2014 4:05 am

OK...I tried to get you to go black.
A good smokeless load will do GREAT, and what the hey....if it allows you to enjoy it YOUR way...why not.

For cast bullets in the 400 gn range: IMR 3031, with a mid-40'sgn charge wt. range is a good powder in the 45/70. I also worked up a load using a 400 gn plain base cast over a bunch(upper 40's) of WC846. Both of these are running at moderate velocities ( 1300-1500 fps). They are easy on the body to shoot..even out of my Guide Gun, and in our S.E. Georgia Deer woods, where shots-on-game are routinely well under 100 yds....are absolute THUMPERS.
The only 45/70 loads I have with 500's are with 2f and 3f black...for my Trapdoor and Browning 1885 BPCR.
I really like that scoped #1....for my old eyes, that would be just the ticket.
Congratulations...!!

WoodrowC · Post by **WoodrowC** » Sun May 04, 2014 6:28 am

A jaw-dropping made in America heirloom piece........... fired or not.

Made my day. Gerry

BenT · Post by **BenT** » Sun May 04, 2014 7:37 am

Super Cool!

OldWin · Post by **OldWin** » Sun May 04, 2014 7:59 am

I hear you with the black powder. I don't use it either as I'm always afraid I will miss something and screw up a nice rifle.
As Guido said, I've has good luck with IMR3031 with 405gr bullets in stronger actions. That gas check mould will work good. With the Ruger you're good from cat sneeze to separated shoulder.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Sun May 04, 2014 12:58 pm

Thanks guys....the excitement is starting to wear off and my head is clearing up. Funny thing how a new toy can mess your straight thinking up.

I'm with Old Win and gonna start thinking "intelligently" of what velocities I want to work with and what bullet. More than likely I'm going to stay in the 1350-1500 range with smokeless. I have on hand, a half dozen moulds in 45 caliber and I'm leaning to the 4-500 grain with a gas check.

I slugged the bore and it's a tight .457-----6

OldWin · Post by **OldWin** » Sun May 04, 2014 2:33 pm

I think you're on the right track Six. I would think also that with all that barrel you should have some flexibility with powder choices.
I predict it won't be fussy as to what it shoots well. Your chosen velocities should make it pleasant to shoot all day.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Sun May 04, 2014 3:25 pm

OldWin wrote: I predict it won't be fussy as to what it shoots well. Your chosen velocities should make it pleasant to shoot all day.

Those are two sentences that are my "to live by with guns" preferences, especially the second one.

I love to go to the gunclub and shoot all day without my shoulder or wrists taking a beating. ----6

OldWin · Post by **OldWin** » Sun May 04, 2014 4:02 pm

Haha I hear ya on that one. I'm not ashamed to say I don't like getting pounded on. I'm good for a while but can see the groups start to open up after I've been beaten for too long.

Guess that's why I like my old 38-40's, 38-55's etc.

I'm just a real sensitive guy

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Mon May 05, 2014 10:49 am

If I'm not mistaken the "leade" in the throat of the regular Ruger #1S in 45-70 isn't exactly cast bullet friendly from what some other folks have told me (whether they knew what they were talking about is another issue) . Anyway since there's a nice Lyman mold included with the set I would assume the "leade" in these guns is ok for cast and it may very well be in the #1S guns and I was misinformed .

I'd put a vote in for the old Gould 330 grain HP PB bullet . But then I'd want it to shoot deer .

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Mon May 05, 2014 10:54 am

Incidently how are the optics in the scope ?

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Mon May 05, 2014 3:26 pm

6pt-sika wrote:Incidently how are the optics in the scope ?

6 point,
They are terrible. According to the book that came with the gun, the optics in this scope were fifty years old, which means they were made in the late twenties. The field of view is small and the clarity is equal to about looking through an old cars windshield (see above description) It will work, but so will Mexicans if they have nothing to eat.

First, I am going to shoot this rifle a bit with different bullets, seated to different lengths and if the rifle shows promise, I'm going to stick a high dollar Leupold on it.-----6

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Mon May 05, 2014 4:23 pm

Sixgun wrote:
6pt-sika wrote:Incidently how are the optics in the scope ?
6 point,
They are terrible. According to the book that came with the gun, the optics in this scope were fifty years old, which means they were made in the late twenties. The field of view is small and the clarity is equal to about looking through an old cars windshield (see above description) It will work, but so will Mexicans if they have nothing to eat.

First, I am going to shoot this rifle a bit with different bullets, seated to different lengths and if the rifle shows promise, I'm going to stick a high dollar Leupold on it.-----6

It would look kinda cool with a Lyman Super Targerspot or Unertl on top I think .

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Mon May 05, 2014 6:50 pm

6 point,
Exactly! My bud has a 14 power Unertl sitting in his office. Been sitting there for ....I don't know...5 years or so. He is a tough guy to have him part with things he likes but he likes money more. It looks really nice and comes in a wooden case. What do you think it's worth, so when I hit him up, I'll know if I have haggling power.

---6

Btw, I just got done shooting 20 rounds out of the Ruger with very light loads of 7 gr. of Unique and 3 different bullets seated out to touch the rifling at a measly 50 yards. NEI GC got them in to 7/8". RCBS at 1 and 1/2", and a 420 Lyman plain base in 1/2" with a flyer to one inch. Not much of a scientific test but I just needed to know if at all the gun would shoot.

BrentD · Post by **BrentD** » Mon May 05, 2014 6:57 pm

The value of a Unertl 14x, external adjust scope is in the region of $800+, depending on model and condition.

I'd just shoot what you have got on it, that is easily 90% of the cache' in that rifle and besides, you don't need fantastic optical resolution to shoot targets.

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Mon May 05, 2014 8:11 pm

Unertl prices vary quite a bit . Depends on tube diameter and objective diameter . I've sold them fir as much as $1200 and for as little as $500 . Without seeing it etc I would say $650-800 and the closèr to $650 the better !

ndcowboy · Post by **ndcowboy** » Tue May 06, 2014 8:02 am

Montana Outfitters wrote:REMEMBER THE PRICE TANKS ONCE THESE START GETTING SHOT AND ARE HARD TO GET RID OF
AS NOW THEY DON'T COMMAND THE NIB VALUE.........THIS IS FROM EXPERIENCE AND OWNING 5 OF THESE IN THE LAST 15 YEARS OR SO NOT BEING RUDE OR PUTTING THESE GREAT SHOOTING RIFLES
DOWN A BIT BUT IF NEW IN THE BOX THEY HAVE VALUE SO THINK BEFORE YOU SHOOT BECAUSE
YOU CANT HIDE THE NEW RIFLE FROM BEING USED................

I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to find one that was shot and "hard to get rid of" for less money than most guys want for their NIB ones.

Bill in Oregon · Post by **Bill in Oregon** » Tue May 06, 2014 8:16 am

First I have heard of this collaborative effort between Ruger and Lyman, and I used to read all the gun rags back in the day.
Beautiful rifle.

OldWin · Post by **OldWin** » Tue May 06, 2014 1:35 pm

Sounds like she's gonna be a shooter Six. Good ole Unique!
Also seems that old scope is going to hold zero even if the optics are crappy. I'd give it some time before pulling it, maybe you will kinda warm up to it.
That being said, the Unertl definitely has the cool factor and would look right at home on that old cannon.

You find the coolest stuff down there........

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Tue May 06, 2014 4:20 pm

6,
You have to be kidding me!
You and that 6pt dude get all the no one else can find guns.

Wow, what a find!
That makes my little 24" 1969 #1 45-70 (1 S -24-H) look like a toy.
Boy do I REALLY like that!

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Tue May 06, 2014 7:31 pm

Yea, after work I was blasting away with heavy loads out back....7 grains of Unique and different cast bullets..... Must have been a whopping 650 fps. I can't get away with much more before the local city folk who moved in around here call the cops. Those light loads really don't tell much of anything. Gotta get to the gunclub but hey, once again it looks like a weekend of thunderstorms and rain.

If it ain't raining, the wind is blowing and if it ain't that, something else is demanding my attention.I can't wait to retire.----6

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Tue May 06, 2014 8:00 pm

Sixgun wrote:Yea, after work I was blasting away with heavy loads out back....7 grains of Unique and different cast bullets..... Must have been a whopping 650 fps. I can't get away with much more before the local city folk who moved in around here call the cops. Those light loads really don't tell much of anything. Gotta get to the gunclub but hey, once again it looks like a weekend of thunderstorms and rain.

If it ain't raining, the wind is blowing and if it ain't that, something else is demanding my attention.I can't wait to retire.----6

It's fairly simple to make a muffler to shoot thru using two 55 gallon drums . You hook them together and use insulation and chicken wire . We've had a couple folks around here do that when they live kinda close to someone that objects .

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Tue May 06, 2014 8:00 pm

Sixgun wrote:Yea, after work I was blasting away with heavy loads out back....7 grains of Unique and different cast bullets..... Must have been a whopping 650 fps. I can't get away with much more before the local city folk who moved in around here call the cops. Those light loads really don't tell much of anything. Gotta get to the gunclub but hey, once again it looks like a weekend of thunderstorms and rain.

If it ain't raining, the wind is blowing and if it ain't that, something else is demanding my attention.I can't wait to retire.----6

It's fairly simple to make a muffler to shoot thru using two 55 gallon drums . You hook them together and use insulation and chicken wire . We've had a couple folks around here do that when they live kinda close to someone that objects .

BrentD · Post by **BrentD** » Tue May 06, 2014 8:17 pm

I've seen similar mufflers built out of used tires - no insulation. The tires become baffles. Was going to do something like this myself but I don't have the distances to make it worthwhile.

cas · Post by **cas** » Tue May 06, 2014 9:16 pm

He' been doing that fer years.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Wed May 07, 2014 8:46 pm

cas wrote:He' been doing that fer years.

Yep, CAS remembers.

This is a pic with the main part out of the drum.---

BrentD · Post by **BrentD** » Wed May 07, 2014 8:56 pm

I like it. Do the mice play havoc with the insulation though?

Jay Bird · Post by **Jay Bird** » Fri May 09, 2014 12:24 am

WTH Sixgun, why do you get all the neat stuff. Who made you king of all neat-O gun stuff. You need to pass the buck to us less fortunate Americans. Waiting for my package.
Your truly
Obama

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Fri May 09, 2014 7:09 am

Sixgun jr wrote:WTH Sixgun, why do you get all the neat stuff. Who made you king of all neat-O gun stuff. You need to pass the buck to us less fortunate Americans. Waiting for my package.
Your truly
Obama

I get the neat stuff because I go after it. I leave the Mossbergs for others.

Oh, your package? I'll get it off tomorrow-----hint...its gold plated and was recently found in the Colt factory. I got one for you and one for me....and..............that baby will fit right on your Colt AR.....its a beauty.-----yo papa

I'm home now and decided to take a pic of your impending package.

Here it is...........a real deal 24k gold plated bird cage. Our buddy, (you know) was rooting around the factory last week and he found a half dozen of these things. They were originally made for the Vietnam comm. AR 15. Yes, one for me and one for you.