I'm gonna need another gun.

Gobblerforge · Post by **Gobblerforge** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 6:20 am

Here's the skinny. It looks like my dear Ohio is ever so slightly pulling it's head out of there by allowing the strait wall cartridge that is allowed in hand guns to be used in rifles for deer for the 2015. They have a list of cartridges and it's basically .357 or larger. But I don't have a long gun in a strait wall cartridge, so here we sit with a year and a half for me to decide on what gun and in what caliber to get into. This new gun will involve buying a mold and casting and loading. I am actually liking an 1885 as a possible or a Lee Hotchkiss. I am a recoil sissy so it matters. I do have an 1860 Army with a Colt cylinder so that could be a caliber direction. Oh, and I want an old gun, not a reproduction. Otherwise it would have already been an 1892 clone in 357.
So what are your thoughts?
Oh, and Happy Easter.
Thanks,
Gobbler

EdinCT · Post by **EdinCT** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 6:44 am

Gobbler they aren't going to allow the 38 WCF, Or just need to buy a new iron ?

Centennial · Post by **Centennial** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 6:52 am

Buy an original 1873 Winchester rifle in 38wcf and kill deer. They can still be found afford-ably.

.45colt · Post by **.45colt** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:15 am

Should be easy Gobbler. Get a 38-55

. I have two 45-70's but now have the dilemma which one to take? never thought I would see the day.

.

Borregos · Post by **Borregos** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:26 am

Progress

Can it be any straight wall cartridge??

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:34 am

.357 Max in a Handi Rifle.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:26 am

Unless you just have to have a certain model or 'vintage' firearm, get a 45 Colt, 44 Mag, or 357 Mag levergun in a Marlin 1894 or Winchester/clone 1892, and you'll have more venison than you can eat.

My Marlin, Rossi, and Ruger lever actions in 44 Mag are all the basic meat-getters I typically use, but my kids have used 357 Mags with no problem (just stick with 158 gr and up soft point or solids), and of course everything 44 Mag can do, 45 Colt can do better, with handloads, other than maybe if you are into 180 grain bullets or less.

If you want a more 'historic' cartridge, get one of the many out there; just check to see what's "legal" in your state. Indiana is OK with the three I mentioned, plus 44-40, 38-40, and so on, but 375 Win and 38-55 are too "long" for our definition of "deer-legal". 500 S&W leverguns are legal, though, which is huge overkill for deer. (Nonetheless, I have one on order, just because they are cool).

Gobblerforge · Post by **Gobblerforge** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:13 am

It seams that the 38WCF, my favorite, is not allowed. It has a bottle neck. That makes it too scary for them. Otherwise my 1892 would already be the gun.
As copied from the ODNR website;
The Ohio Wildlife Council approved these specific straight-walled cartridge rifles for deer hunting: .357 Magnum, .357 Maximum, .38 Special, .375 Super Magnum, .375 Winchester, .38-55, .41 Long Colt, .41 Magnum, .44 Special, .44 Magnum, .444 Marlin, .45 ACP, .45 Colt, .45 Long Colt, .45 Winchester Magnum, .45 Smith & Wesson, .454 Casull, .460 Smith & Wesson, .45-70, .45-90, .45-110, .475 Linebaugh, .50-70, .50-90, .50-100, .50-110 and .500 Smith & Wesson.
Gobbler

Centennial · Post by **Centennial** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:22 am

Wow that is crazy. Sounds like you need to get some shooters in the Ohio Wildlife Council.

Borregos · Post by **Borregos** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:52 am

38-55 or 45-70 then

Gobblerforge · Post by **Gobblerforge** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 10:10 am

Just sitting with gunbroker and reading Cartridges of the World, I think I am liking the 38-55. Good ballistic reviews and several candidate guns in that caliber.

Gobbler

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 10:16 am

Gobblerforge wrote:Just sitting with gunbroker and reading Cartridges of the World, I think I am liking the 38-55. Good ballistic reviews and several candidate guns in that caliber.
Gobbler

A great choice, especially in a original gun.

jhrosier · Post by **jhrosier** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 10:30 am

Gobblerforge wrote:......The Ohio Wildlife Council approved these specific straight-walled cartridge rifles for deer hunting: .357 Magnum, .357 Maximum, .38 Special, .375 Super Magnum, .375 Winchester, .38-55, .41 Long Colt, .41 Magnum, .44 Special, .44 Magnum, .444 Marlin, .45 ACP, .45 Colt, .45 Long Colt, .45 Winchester Magnum, .45 Smith & Wesson, .454 Casull, .460 Smith & Wesson, .45-70, .45-90, .45-110, .475 Linebaugh, .50-70, .50-90, .50-100, .50-110 and .500 Smith & Wesson.
Gobbler

.500 S&W in a handi-rifle would be interesting. I've shot mine with a case full of Triple 7 and it is a hoot to shoot.

Jack

RIHMFIRE · Post by **RIHMFIRE** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:15 pm

38-55 model 94 would be my choice
With a 26 inch barrel ..semi buckhorn site.

JerryB · Post by **JerryB** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:51 pm

I took a nice fat doe with an 1894 Winchester 94 carbine rebore by JES in November. I loaded a Montana 255 grain cast bullet over 18 grains of 5744 (Kirk's load), complete pass through and one dead deer. I do love that round.

Single shot or levergun it would do the job for you.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:24 pm

Seems silly that they allow the .375 Win., .38-55 & .45-70, which are all RIFLE cartridges, but don't allow the .38-40, while also a "rifle" cartridge, is in the same class at the .44-40 & .45 Colt in both size and capability!

But, given the list, I guess I'd go for a Winchester 94 in .38-55.

EdinCT · Post by **EdinCT** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:37 pm

Where you don't love recoil the 38/55 is a great choice and seeing how you have seen what a 38 wcf can do with 180 gr bullet at 1330 you will have no doubt about the 250 .377 at the same or greater velocity. I saw a 38/55 vintage model 94 for around 500.00 4 or 5 months ago. It was worn brown but had strong rifling. If I see another I will let you know.

BrentD · Post by **BrentD** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:46 pm

The .38-55 would be a fine deer rifle and easy enough to have a .30-30 or similar rebored to a .38-55 you find a deal on a vintage rifle with a rotted bore.

If you think you might shoot blackpowder, you might like a Marlin 93 better than a Winchester 94.

Centennial · Post by **Centennial** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:46 pm

I guess a 1865 Spencer 56-50 would be out of the question? Straight case, lever action, works good in black powder or smokeless. But is has to be on the list?

vancelw · Post by **vancelw** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 10:39 pm

Gobblerforge wrote:.
As copied from the ODNR website;
The Ohio Wildlife Council approved these specific straight-walled cartridge rifles for deer hunting: .357 Magnum, .357 Maximum, .38 Special, .375 Super Magnum, .375 Winchester, .38-55, .41 Long Colt, .41 Magnum, .44 Special, .44 Magnum, .444 Marlin, .45 ACP, .45 Colt, .45 Long Colt, .45 Winchester Magnum, .45 Smith & Wesson, .454 Casull, .460 Smith & Wesson, .45-70, .45-90, .45-110, .475 Linebaugh, .50-70, .50-90, .50-100, .50-110 and .500 Smith & Wesson.
Gobbler

That cracks me up, they allow imaginary cartridges

I like a .38-55, but a .45-70 would be my choice. Trapdoor, highwall, Sharps, Peabody......1886.....

piller · Post by **piller** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:57 am

Vance, wouldn't Dick Casull's .454 be a .45 Long Colt? Or, it could be a .45 Magnum.

BrentD · Post by **BrentD** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:03 am

It is fun to pick apart lists like this. rifle with .45 acp? Are there such things? And to have .45-70, .45-90, .45-110 and NOT have .45-100 is pretty odd. Not to mention all the other straight .38s and .40s. And I think there are some modern straightwalls from Ruger and the like that have been built into production rifles. But no list will be complete, and certainly the folks that make such lists, no matter what they do, are going to be ridiculed on the streets of internet infamy.

I certainly would not want to be charged with making up a list - no way everyone will be happy.

piller · Post by **piller** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:07 am

Brent, it might be easier to give minimum caliber and bullet weight with minimum muzzle velocities, and then maybe stop it at some pre-determined ending point. That way, energy at the muzzle would be no less than what could be determined to be useful.

BrentD · Post by **BrentD** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:11 am

piller wrote:Brent, it might be easier to give minimum caliber and bullet weight with minimum muzzle velocities, and then maybe stop it at some pre-determined ending point. That way, energy at the muzzle would be no less than what could be determined to be useful.

That makes sense from a ballistic standpoint but it would be all but unenforceable in practice. I suspect that maximum range was a factor in cartridge limitation as well as minimum ballistics, but practical enforcement is also a problem.

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:04 pm

Me, I'd go with a modern cartridge and a fairly new gun.

Probably along the lines of some model of Marlin 1894 in .357 or .44 Mag.

Gobblerforge · Post by **Gobblerforge** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:15 pm

Thanks all. This is helping.
Centennial. I have access to a 56-50 too.

Merle · Post by **Merle** » Sat May 10, 2014 8:37 pm

BrentD wrote:It is fun to pick apart lists like this. rifle with .45 acp? Are there such things? And to have .45-70, .45-90, .45-110 and NOT have .45-100 is pretty odd. Not to mention all the other straight .38s and .40s. And I think there are some modern straightwalls from Ruger and the like that have been built into production rifles. But no list will be complete, and certainly the folks that make such lists, no matter what they do, are going to be ridiculed on the streets of internet infamy.

I certainly would not want to be charged with making up a list - no way everyone will be happy.

Yep, High Point makes a semi-auto carbine.

IIRC, there have been several others in the past.

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Sat May 10, 2014 9:08 pm

Borregos wrote:38-55 or 45-70 then

Since you reload, reverse order for me sir.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sat May 10, 2014 9:31 pm

Gobblerforge wrote:The Ohio Wildlife Council approved these specific straight-walled cartridge rifles for deer hunting: .357 Magnum, .357 Maximum, .38 Special, .375 Super Magnum, .375 Winchester, .38-55, .41 Long Colt, .41 Magnum, .44 Special, .44 Magnum, .444 Marlin, .45 ACP, .45 Colt, .45 Long Colt, .45 Winchester Magnum, .45 Smith & Wesson, .454 Casull, .460 Smith & Wesson, .45-70, .45-90, .45-110, .475 Linebaugh, .50-70, .50-90, .50-100, .50-110 and .500 Smith & Wesson.

Gotta admit, I'd like several of these (and only a couple are legal over here in Indiana)...

1. 357 Max - legal here - just 'cuz I'd like to use my Contender 14" pistol barrel sometime.
2. 375 Win (or 38-55) - not legal here - but it is my prettiest gun (Win 94BB AE), and needs used for game.
3. 444 Marlin - not legal here - but it is such a cool and under-appreciated cartridge...
4. 475 Linebaugh - legal here - but what I'd really love to use would be a .480 Ruger...
- (it would be a good excuse to purchase a Rossi 92 and/or Ruger Super Redhawk in that chambering)
5. 500 S&W - legal here - overkill for sure, but I have a Bighorn Spike Driver on order.

But since you say "This new gun will involve buying a mold and casting and loading. . . . I am a recoil sissy so it matters. . . . . Oh, and I want an old gun, not a reproduction," it sounds like a 38-55 would be perfect for your needs.

vancelw · Post by **vancelw** » Sat May 10, 2014 10:49 pm

AJMD429 wrote: 5. 500 S&W - legal here - overkill for sure, but I have a Bighorn Spike Driver on order.

Can I stop by and drool on it next time I am in Indy?

cshold · Post by **cshold** » Sun May 11, 2014 9:52 am

Centennial wrote:Wow that is crazy. Sounds like you need to get some shooters in the Ohio Wildlife Council.

+1
On the list or not, I think I'd use that 38wcf anyway.

Merle · Post by **Merle** » Sun May 11, 2014 9:55 am

casastahle wrote:
Centennial wrote:Wow that is crazy. Sounds like you need to get some shooters in the Ohio Wildlife Council.
+1
On the list or not, I think I'd use that 38wcf anyway.

Bad idea! That could get your rifle confiscated, plus get you a healthy fine. Not to mention giving the anti's more "proof" that hunters are irresponsible slobs.

cshold · Post by **cshold** » Sun May 11, 2014 10:43 am

Merle wrote:
casastahle wrote:
Centennial wrote:Wow that is crazy. Sounds like you need to get some shooters in the Ohio Wildlife Council.
+1
On the list or not, I think I'd use that 38wcf anyway.

Bad idea! That could get your rifle confiscated, plus get you a healthy fine. Not to mention giving the anti's more "proof" that hunters are irresponsible slobs.

I know you're right Merle.

But dang it, ya gotta take a stand against total stupidity at some point

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sun May 11, 2014 10:48 am

vancelw wrote:
AJMD429 wrote:5. 500 S&W - legal here - overkill for sure, but I have a Bighorn Spike Driver on order.
Can I stop by and drool on it next time I am in Indy?

Once I actually get it . . . currently they are quoting a wait of six to eight months from order to delivery.

Merle · Post by **Merle** » Sun May 11, 2014 12:54 pm

casastahle wrote:
Merle wrote:Wow that is crazy. Sounds like you need to get some shooters in the Ohio Wildlife Council.
+1
On the list or not, I think I'd use that 38wcf anyway.

Bad idea! That could get your rifle confiscated, plus get you a healthy fine. Not to mention giving the anti's more "proof" that hunters are irresponsible slobs.

[/quote]

I know you're right Merle.

But dang it, ya gotta take a stand against total stupidity at some point

[/quote]

I understand that, but you gotta be sure the results are worth the risk.

rodeo kid · Post by **rodeo kid** » Sun May 11, 2014 8:39 pm

How about a new Winchester 73 in .357? God Bless.

Gobblerforge · Post by **Gobblerforge** » Mon May 12, 2014 1:34 pm

You know, this has appeal. Any thoughts
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =415158390

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Mon May 12, 2014 1:47 pm

The State of Washington gave up, and made this the guidelines: Barrel of 4" or more, and .25 cal or more....Lot's of loopholes for idiots to fall through. They go on to recommend that some obvious choices are not acceptable. Now I have an excuse to get that custom .25acp with a 5" bbl...

cshold · Post by **cshold** » Mon May 12, 2014 3:20 pm

Gobblerforge wrote:It seams that the 38WCF, my favorite, is not allowed. It has a bottle neck. That makes it too scary for them. Otherwise my 1892 would already be the gun.
As copied from the ODNR website;
The Ohio Wildlife Council approved these specific straight-walled cartridge rifles for deer hunting: .357 Magnum, .357 Maximum, .38 Special, .375 Super Magnum, .375 Winchester, .38-55, .41 Long Colt, .41 Magnum, .44 Special, .44 Magnum, .444 Marlin, .45 ACP, .45 Colt, .45 Long Colt, .45 Winchester Magnum, .45 Smith & Wesson, .454 Casull, .460 Smith & Wesson, .45-70, .45-90, .45-110, .475 Linebaugh, .50-70, .50-90, .50-100, .50-110 and .500 Smith & Wesson.
Gobbler

I wonder what the game wardens think of having to police this mess on top of
everything else in the rules & regulations book.

1894cfan · Post by **1894cfan** » Mon May 12, 2014 6:34 pm

Did anybody else besides me pick up on the 38 Special?

The only way I would use that is if I was starving and had nothing else available!

Merle · Post by **Merle** » Mon May 12, 2014 6:46 pm

1894cfan wrote:Did anybody else besides me pick up on the 38 Special? The only way I would use that is if I was starving and had nothing else available!

My vote would go to the 41 long Colt as the worst pick.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Mon May 12, 2014 7:26 pm

Centennial wrote:Wow that is crazy. Sounds like you need to get some shooters in the Ohio Wildlife Council.

Logic & Politicians do not mix.

It took 3 YEARS of activisim to get PISTOL cartridges "accepted" in IN, and they still wouldn't "allow" traditional BP/Levergun/brush cartridges even though the ballistics of modern Sabot Slugs from.a rifled.shotgun are far more "dangerous".

Meh.

My disrespect for Fishy Game politicians, and the Fishy Game Cops that use the threat of violence to enForce their innane "rules" has no limit...

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Mon May 12, 2014 8:01 pm

You like the 38-40? Use it. It's a 1000 to one you would be caught/questioned and if that did happen, you have the knowledge to argue.......just quote factory specs.

Only an idiot wildlife officer would take you to task for it.----6

Merle · Post by **Merle** » Tue May 13, 2014 10:23 am

Sixgun wrote:You like the 38-40? Use it. It's a 1000 to one you would be caught/questioned and if that did happen, you have the knowledge to argue.......just quote factory specs.

Only an idiot wildlife officer would take you to task for it.----6

You're pretty quick to urge someone else to risk losing their family heirloom. Would you risk losing your own?
And there are plenty of idiots out there, not to mention those who simply follow the letter of the law.

cshold · Post by **cshold** » Tue May 13, 2014 1:19 pm

Merle,
You want to see something interesting sometime, ask a PA. Game Warden if you can see his copy of the game laws & regulations.
It's nothing like that advertisement filled paper magazine we get with our hunting license.

If they want to get ya for something they'll find something.
Be careful you don't step on a certain kind of fern out there in the woods.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Tue May 13, 2014 2:16 pm

Merle wrote:
You're pretty quick to urge someone else to risk losing their family heirloom. Would you risk losing your own?
And there are plenty of idiots out there, not to mention those who simply follow the letter of the law.

Hey Pearl,
It would not matter to me, I'd just go to the safe and get another.

----6

Merle · Post by **Merle** » Tue May 13, 2014 3:45 pm

casastahle wrote:Merle,
You want to see something interesting sometime, ask a PA. Game Warden if you can see his copy of the game laws & regulations.
It's nothing like that advertisement filled paper magazine we get with our hunting license.
If they want to get ya for something they'll find something.
Be careful you don't step on a certain kind of fern out there in the woods.

No doubt!

Merle · Post by **Merle** » Tue May 13, 2014 3:47 pm

Sixgun wrote:
Merle wrote:
You're pretty quick to urge someone else to risk losing their family heirloom. Would you risk losing your own?
And there are plenty of idiots out there, not to mention those who simply follow the letter of the law.
Hey Pearl,
It would not matter to me, I'd just go to the safe and get another. ----6

That's all well & fine - UNLESS it was Granddaddy's. THEN it matters!

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Tue May 13, 2014 8:57 pm

Merle wrote: That's all well & fine - UNLESS it was Granddaddy's. THEN it matters!

Merlin,
Naaa...not really. My grand pappy had more guns then me. He don't remember the guns he gave me. He done and passed 15 years ago. I have so many 1892's around here that I use em for door stops.

First generation Colts get used as hammers or to fill in low spots out in the yard.

Here's an original Volcanic serial number 22 that I use for a door stop down in the gun room.---6

Gobblerforge · Post by **Gobblerforge** » Wed May 14, 2014 5:48 am

Sixgun wrote:
Merle wrote: That's all well & fine - UNLESS it was Granddaddy's. THEN it matters!
Merlin,
Naaa...not really. My grand pappy had more guns then me. He don't remember the guns he gave me. He done and passed 15 years ago. I have so many 1892's around here that I use em for door stops.

First generation Colts get used as hammers or to fill in low spots out in the yard.

Here's an original Volcanic serial number 22 that I use for a door stop down in the gun room.---6

You were stung as a child, weren't you?