My last post

[TedH]

My last post I made back on the 21st was made with a heavy heart. I was feeling like I had fallen short in so many ways when I learned the news that, tragically, a friend of mine had taken his own life. We were not real close, but I'd know him for several years. At first I was really mad at him for doing this to himself and the effect it will have on his two daughters, and a new grandson. Especially right before Christmas. Then I started wondering if just a phone call that day could have changed something in him and he wouldn't have done what he had. No one that knew him had any idea of the apparent turmoil he had inside. I didn't understand how somebody could be that bad off in their own mind, and I couldn't tell. If I had just offered a beer, or an ear to talk to one more time, maybe it wouldn't be this way. But, the decision of his final act was solely his, and while I will always wonder what could have been if I had been able to do something to help, we will never know. Those of us still on this earth can only strive to be better each day. I don't want to try to be a just better man, I want to be the man God want's me to be. That is my New Year's Resolution.

God Bless, and Happy New Year.

[eric65]

If It makes you feel any better, some times there are no outward signs to clue you in to a potential suicide.

[Steelbanger]

I'm feeling your pain Ted. Prayers up.

[jeepnik]

Ted, I've lost friends and family members to suicide. Truth is no matter how we might try, there is often nothing we can do. Yes, we feel guilt at not having done more, but really there was nothing more we could do. None of us are clairvoyant. All we can do is be there for the survivors and take solace that we have done what we can for the one who has passed and pray we never have to deal with this type of loss again.

My prayers for you, and all those touched by this death.

Next time you're feeling like hiding from the world after what's truly a life changing event, don't. Talk to someone, heck everyone here pretty much is willing to listen, sometimes we can do something, others it's just lending an ear. Both are important.

[Chuck 100 yd]

Ted. My wife`s cousin took his own life just a couple months ago. His wife was pregnant and he had two young kids also. He was appreciated at his work and no one had even the slightest suspicion anything was wrong.
Prayers for you and all involved.

[AJMD429]

Suicide is not usually a 'logical' thing to do from the perspective of those of us on the 'outside' of that individual's life.

Sometimes they are just angry, want to lash out, and know that the final hurt they can deliver to some individuals will be deep and lasting, even though they die in the process. It is difficult to feel sympathy for those individuals, for even though they lost their life in the process, their goal was mostly to hurt other people, and 'make a point' of some kind. To that extent, they succeeded in their mission, so need no particular sympathy.

The others are not angry, but rather feel isolated and helpless, and are unable or unwilling to seek and get help from others who could help them through whatever their situation is. Our society tends to make such situations common, because we are so preoccupied with superficiality, taxes, and so on.

The bottom line is that seldom can a friend or coworker or relative do the necessary mind-reading to realize that a person is suicidal, and then do anything effective to intervene. Think how often someone you know well seems 'furious' or 'despondent' or 'at their wits-end' over something that they are actually dealing with effectively - then realize how often someone else may be truly suicidal over an issue they barely even mention, if at all.

Don't feel guilt over it. If they would have reached-out to you, you would doubtless have helped, but they didn't. Nothing you can do now, or could have done 'then', without having magical mind-reading powers.

Do feel sorrow, and loss, and sadness over it though; nobody wants to see a friend end his/her life prematurely.

Use it as a lesson for yourself:

• a) if you are overwhelmed, don't just 'hint' to friends that you need their help - ask clearly for it, and
  
  b) if a friend seems down, do try to see if you can help, but realize you can't be a mind-reader.

We could all improve our lives and happiness by spending more time with the television and computer and cellphone off, just interacting with friends and family.

[Sixgun]

Ted,
Another "permanent solution to a temporary problem". Inner anxiety and perceived hopelessness leads many to take their own lives. I got tired of counting people I've known who have gone out that way and none of them had any serious issues like terminal cancer. It's either been money or marital issues, sometimes drug/alcohol abuse.

In the last 3 years, 4 people have rented guns in my buds target range and slopped things up for others to clean. He had to make a new rule that people by themselves cannot rent guns.

When it hits close to home, like your friend, lots of thoughts run through our minds, but in the end, it was his choice. Do what you can to help his family. It will help....in many ways.---6

[Shasta]

I know how you are feeling, Ted. I lost my next door neighbor to suicide just two weeks ago. I still can't believe he's gone, he was a good guy. I just didn't realize how depressed he was.

SHASTA

[Blaine]

I remember Jimmy Stewart talking to John Wayne in The Shootist......I don't think I'd want to "go out" that way if I had a choice, either. I'm considerate enough not to leave a mess, too.

[Old Savage]

Lighten up on yourself, likely nothing anyone could do. Who knows. Hurts but not to torture yourself, will do no good.

[Ray Newman]

Blaine: +1

[new pig hunter]

Interestingly enough, your inner conflict "..... has been redefined as a significant symptom of PTSD" .....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivor_guilt

And yours is the question of the ages, "what if ...." for which there are no answers. And possessing such knowledge doesn't automatically resolve the problem.

I've done a lot of prison ministry and "those guys" spend a lot of time playing the "what if" game to no satisfactory end. We on the team introduce them to a different perspective, to give them hope that there is a much bigger picture than they have ever seen, much less considered. Seems to me that if you are resolving to be the man God wants you to be, then He will provide resolution when it's time.

Cheers,

Carl

[Old Savage]

That makes sense.

[1894c]

As an LE Chaplain I have been to at least 2-3 suicides per month, Agency wide we are averaging 2 per week since 2009 (we used to get 2 per month). Suicide transfers hurt, anger, guilt, and confusion to those left behind...suicide is a very selfish act...suicide has many victims...everyone that has posted has given good advice...don't blame yourself...

those contemplating suicide usually, but not always, follows these three steps:
1). he was already thinking about suicide.
2). he already had a plan,
3). he already made a decision of where and when.

The following is from my experience and training:
1). Take the threat of suicide seriously--if they're talking, they're thinking...
2). Don’t give advice or offer simple solutions.
3). Don’t judge (don’t be critical, condemn, or challenge).
4). LISTEN (don’t interrupt)
5). Be available—offer hope (I will not leave you—I care).
6). Get help immediately—call 911
7). You’re not responsible for the outcome.

My prayers are for you TedH and for the family of your friend...blessings... Code-4

[Nath]

Ted.....awfull 'int it.

Nath.

[Sixgun]

30wcf,
2 per week????? Is our society that screwed up to be causing people that much stress?

No wonder the rest of the world hates us.----------6

[piller]

Sixgun, unfortunately, ours is not the only society where the suicide rate is high. Japan has a problem with it, too. Very stressful when you want to live in some societies. The worst part of it, or at least from what I see, is what it does to those left behind. TedH, prayers sent for comfort for you and the rest whom he left behind.

[KirkD]

TedH, one of my two closest buddies that I had grown up with, took his life and I had no clue whatsoever that he was going to do it. Looking back, there was no sign and I dearly wished he had said something to me and maybe I could have helped him. Why didn't he say anything? He was such a nice fellow that I know he did not want to burden anyone with his problems, so he took his life. Well, all I can say is that if a fellow is having a rough time, he needs to talk to his friend. That is one thing that friends are for. At the end of the day, I cannot do a thing about my close buddy. He is gone so a fellow just has to move on. However, I have resolved to keep a good eye out for others around me who may be having a rough time and do what I can to help them.

[1894c]

30wcf,
2 per week????? Is our society that screwed up to be causing people that much stress?
No wonder the rest of the world hates us.----------6

Sixgun--I would love to tell you that it's different...I responded to a suicide on Christmas Eve, just after I responded to a suicide on December 22...the age range is between 20 to 40-something...the only common thread I see in the lack of hope, especially since our economy tanked...spending allot of time in patrol cars talking to younger LEO's about this issue... :(

[1894c]

I have resolved to keep a good eye out for others around me who may be having a rough time and do what I can to help them.

KirkD -- that's very good advice...

[carbluesnake]

Your new year's resolution is right on target, to be the man God wants you to be. You would not have made that resolution if you weren't already a good ways towards being the man God wants you to be. A man who doesn't care would not have even thought like that. God speed to you and his family; may God grant grace mercy and peace.

[Charles]

During my 37 years in the pastoral ministry, I have seen way to many suicides and have ministered to those left behind. In every situation there is guilt felt by the survivors. The amount of guilt varies, but it is always there to some degree. This is unearned guilt, in that we didn't do anything to earn it. It is self inflicted without due cause. No matter what provoked the person to kill himself, it was a decision he or she made. Nobody made it for him.

Suicide is the most selfish act I can think of, as it is done without consideration for the effect on others, which is often life long and life changing. In addition to being selfish in the extreme, it is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. There was a time I felt sorry for those who killed themselves, but after decades of trying to clean up the mess they leave behind, I am not longer sorry for them, just poed at them.

[2571]

I have resolved to keep a good eye out for others around me who may be having a rough time and do what I can to help them.

KirkD -- that's very good advice...

-1

Sorry, can't agree.

That's the same officious inter-meddling philosophy proposed by the Anti 2A crowd. It won't work & it's none of your business to decide what's best for others.

[shaman]

. . .Those of us still on this earth can only strive to be better each day. I don't want to try to be a just better man, I want to be the man God want's me to be. That is my New Year's Resolution.

God Bless, and Happy New Year.

Ted, you probably are the man God meant you to be. Don't worry about that, but understand that being the kind of guy that worries about these things is the way God meant too.

Suicide is an illness. I've lost quite a few friends over the years to it. I had a few more that tried it and failed. A couple of those became ministers.

I have counseled folks that turned away from it after talking to me. I've had others who went ahead and did it. Frankly, although I tried to blame myself at various times, I have to realize it is a fever in their heart and only God can break it.

I had a best friend, John, who had spent a good deal of his adult life trying suicide. He'd come close a couple times, and after about 10 years of knowing him he showed up at my place one day looking grave.

"I swallowed pills." he told me. "I went to bed last night, not expecting to wake up. I woke up this morning, and I felt better. I just wanted you to know.

Something hit me wrong about the whole thing, and I flew into a rage. Don't ask me why. The main focus, as I remember, was that he'd scheduled lunch with me later in the week and he was going to off himself and not cancel the appointment. Boy! Was I burned. After I settled down, John apologized profusely and left. I immediately got to feeling lousy at how I'd treated my best friend, and I felt horrible guilt that I might have pushed him over the edge.

Years later, John confided in me that this had been the reason he'd stopped trying to commit suicide. Living through the Bulge hadn't been enough, raising a wife and family hadn't been enough, 40 years of living hadn't been enough, but my tirade had somehow brought him to his senses, and he stopped trying to off himself. Go figure.

[1894c]

I have resolved to keep a good eye out for others around me who may be having a rough time and do what I can to help them.

KirkD -- that's very good advice...

-1

Sorry, can't agree.

That's the same officious inter-meddling philosophy proposed by the Anti 2A crowd. It won't work & it's none of your business to decide what's best for others.

Matthew 22:39 (Jesus said) And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

Loving your neighbor is looking out for there well-being, especially when you see someone in trouble...which is very different from any anti-constitutional 2A stuff...nor would I characterize any of what has been said in this thread as "meddling", what has been said are words of charity and kindness--- 2571, I will have to graciously and respectfully disagree with you and your comments...:)

[carbluesnake]

I understand those that would criticize those who condemn suicide on the basis of ' it is up to the individual to choose for himself'. I agree that it is their right to decide what is right for them. However, as one of those who has been left to clean up the mess, let me say that it is indeed selfish to leave others with the physical, emotional, and spiritual mess to deal with. No one has the right to make messes for others to clean up. I am in agreement with the pastor on this. There are many who blame themselves for others suicide, but everyone is responsible for their own decisions. It is a terrible and tragic end. I am almost always sad for those who commit suicide.

[Canuck Bob]

I worked for a time with guys with problems. It often seems the ones who actually do it are the ones not usually suspected.

I wonder if the unravelling of their mask for the world is too terrifying.

I do not wish to bad mouth your lost friend. His pain and problems were well beyond a kind ear I suspect. However it is a selfish act and not your fault. The fact you ask these types of questions says all I need to know about the kind of man you are.

To those dealing with it professionally and ministerially thanks for that. You are special people, please keep an eye on yourselves. I worked a men's rehab center and grew tired of adding names to our dead list. I know way too many guys who died with a needle in their arm in a dirty toilet or shot themselves over a ruined household due alcohol or gambling. The frustrating part is how it is nearly impossible to help many of them.

[O.S.O.K.]

I have resolved to keep a good eye out for others around me who may be having a rough time and do what I can to help them.

KirkD -- that's very good advice...

-1

Sorry, can't agree.

That's the same officious inter-meddling philosophy proposed by the Anti 2A crowd. It won't work & it's none of your business to decide what's best for others.

I think you were misunderstanding Kirk - there's no one more pro gun than him on the board.

And Ted, I'm very sorry to read this - will only repeat what other's have already said - don't blame yourself. Just pray for your friend. He's in God's hands now.

[wvfarrier]

My 17 year old cousin committed suicide I what was considered by us to be out of the blue. No note or explanation. None of his friends saw it coming. He had even made plans for the following day. It destroyed my uncle. He said it's the not knowing that hurt the most. You have my prayers and my utmost sympathy

[Ysabel Kid]

I don't want to try to be a just better man, I want to be the man God want's me to be. That is my New Year's Resolution.

God Bless, and Happy New Year.

Ted, if you don't mind, I'm going to shamelessly borrow that for my own New Year's resolution!