OT - 1911's

[SMP]

I was reading the thread about OD and Junior not being around and got to the 1911 forum part.I remember the 1911 Leverguns forum but didn't post in it because I had no 1911's and did I really didn't know too much about them.Anyway,I just went and purchased my first 1911 the other day,a Springfield GI Champion Lightweight.I have shot about a 150 rounds out of the gun and I love it. I already changed the U.S. stamped wood grips out for a set of rubber Houges that I like better.I can see 1911's are going to be addictive already. I am thinking about doing some other mods but don't really know what the "must haves" on the 1911's are,so if you guys could help me out I'd appreciate it.

[Jarhead]

I was reading the thread about OD and Junior not being around and got to the 1911 forum part.I remember the 1911 Leverguns forum but didn't post in it because I had no 1911's and did I really didn't know too much about them.Anyway,I just went and purchased my first 1911 the other day,a Springfield GI Champion Lightweight.I have shot about a 150 rounds out of the gun and I love it. I already changed the U.S. stamped wood grips out for a set of rubber Houges that I like better.I can see 1911's are going to be addictive already. I am thinking about doing some other mods but don't really know what the "must haves" on the 1911's are,so if you guys could help me out I'd appreciate it.

I have a 1911 Colt Govt. Stainless that was worked over by Wild West Guns in Anchorage, Ak...I love it...very accurate too, and man does it make a big hole! I'm not sure what they did exactly, so I will leave that to someone who knows more about them and knows how to work on them...I just keep mine clean/squared away and the weapon does the rest...Welcome to the 1911 Club

[Leverluver]

Just got my Kimber Ultra carry for a CCW weapon. A friend got his without any bells and whistles but added them one at a time, so I got to play with each stage of the process. First he got the tritium night sights (goood), then he got the laser grips (gooooood). So when I got mine, I ordered all those on the gun and spent less than he spent adding them. The night sights are great but that laser is really something. Sure makes it easier pointing a 3" barrel weapon. Took it out last night (no city lights around here) and the laser put ~6" dot out at 300 yds. I think I will have to get one for my 5" Colt Stainless Enhanced now.

PS I think the most "valuable" thing you can do to a 1911 is to have the extractor and ejector tuned to eject spent casings to a sane distance. I fired a friend's (30 years Dallas PD, 25 years swat) commander and when I finished the magazine all the spent cases were in an area that could have been caught in a 5 gallon bucket, if one had been setting there. That is a big thing with the price of brass these days. My Colt will blast those cases into low earth orbit. I rarely find more than 75% of them. That is not acceptable to me anymore. Both are going in to be tuned for case control.

[jengel]

There's a bunch of stuff that you can do to them. First of all, I like them stock, with the exception of the beavertail grip safety and night sights. The other modifications that I would recommend are checkering or grip tape on the front of the grip frame and a beveled mag well. I have put extended controls on my gun but they tend to be bulky and snag and also the thumb safety had a bad habit of coming off on it's own when put into the holster and snapped. I also have an extended mag release on my gun but it also likes to grab onto things.

My hands are huge so the extended grip safety is mandatory for me. I would recommend good sights, preferably night sights, as the first mod.

[Griff]

My hands are not real big, but I have fairly long fingers, gloves are a fit problem; but I have 3 1911s, A 70 Series Gold Cup, a 70 Series GI, and a 80 Series Combat Commander. The GI was my practice gun while I shot on our Navy Pistol team (ship board only) and the GC was my comp gun. The GI was altered with sights to match the GC and a beavertail grip safety that's rubber coated. My CC has the same grip safety, Pachmyer rubber grips that extend around the front of the receiver, and an ambidextrious safety. It has Bar-Sto barrel that's been ported and polished to shoot just about any ammo I could think to feed thru it. All three have recoil buffers a Wilson extractor (slightly oversize to aid extraction). The CC is my carry gun, was my backup (... ooops, not allowed, so belay that), stored in my posse box along with 10 mags of ammo, plus one in the gun. It feeds everything from 160gr to 230gr ball.

Magazines are the weakest part of any 1911 system. They must have proper spring tension and properly flared ears on the top. I'm a firm believer that if your guns EVER jams in practice, it WILL jam when your life depends on it. Another bugaboo of 1911s is bad form, without a firm grip, you lessen the ability of the gun to properly cycle... this is often given as a fault of the weapon... it's NOT. Just a couple of months ago a shooter was firing his at the range after our cowboy shoot and was getting stovepipes about every 3 or 4th round and was complaining about not being able to hit the broadside of a 18" round steel plate at 5 yards. I painted the target black, loaded a full clip and put 7 nice light grey dots dead center of that target... well, I'm guessin' 7, as a couple were overlapped! In his defense it was his first shots from any 1911. We did a little schoolin' and now he's as big a 1911 fan as most anyone... except OD!

[txpete]

1927 colt systema.its a shooter .
pete

[Hobie]

I have standard and Commander sized Colts. Good guns, REALLY good guns.

[horsesoldier03]

This is my Springfield MILSPEC I purchased for myself as a retirement present after serving 20 yrs with the US Army. Needless to say, I am just a bit prejudice!

[sore shoulder]

OD had a reeally good poem that went something like "thou shalt not modify the 1911..." and then elaborates on all the "shall nots".

[old goat]

...You might think about running 300-500 rounds, over a period of time, through the firearm, before you make any decisions about what it needs. If you keep notes of what has happened that you don't like during this time, then you will have an idea of what items need attention and/or changing. Also making a change and then needing to ask for warranted work is not a good idea.

...old goat

[Rick]

My favorite 1911 is my father's Remington Rand. He got it just after WWII and won't part with it for love or money. Don't blame him. I have owned a Springfield Champion (should not have sold that one), Colt 1991A1 Gov't, Comander, and Officers, all gone. I had a Kimber Ultra Carry, but sold it as it took three hands to break it down and get it back together. I now have a Kimber Custom (Gov't) 2 Kimber Pro Carry's, and a Kimber Compact (4" slide, comes apart like the Pro Carry). I had trouble with the compact, sent it back to Kimber and it came back FIXED, no problem. I use Wilson magazines. Again, no problems. Of my 1911's, my favorites are the Pro Carry's. After shooting them, my Dad bought 2. He still won't let go of that Remington Rand though.

[Marlin .35]

I have a Kimber Custom. I love it. It shoots better than I ever will able to do. After about 10 years, it has never missed a beat. It loves Golden Sabre's, 230 gr, very tight groups. If they all had to go, this one would be the last!! Art

[sore shoulder]

[neil mitchell]

This is mine I bought last Friday. It shoots great even with the thing sights.

Neil

[img][/img]

[AJMD429]

OD had a reeally good poem that went something like "thou shalt not modify the 1911..." and then elaborates on all the "shall nots".

This is from http://frfrogspad.com:80/jmb.htm

(an interesting site in and of itself...)

The Gospel According To John (Moses Browning)
John Moses Browning was perhaps the finest firearms designer, ever. His designs continue to work and to serve almost 100 years after they were created. There is an ongoing controversy about the reliability and safety of current 1911s vs. other "modern" pistols and I think this about sums the situation up.


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As translated from the original ancient manuscripts by Fr. Frog.
© copyright 2002 by John C. Schaefer

1 In the beginning was the 1911, and the 1911 was THE pistol, and it was good. And behold the Lord said, "Thou shalt not muck with my disciple John's design for it is good and it workith. For John made the 1911, and lo all of his weapons, from the designs which I, the Lord, gave him upon the mountain."

2 "And shouldst thou muck with it, and hang all manner of foul implements upon it, and profane its internal parts, thou shalt surely have malfunctions, and in the midst of battle thou shalt surely come to harm."

3 And as the ages passed men in their ignorance and arrogance didst forget the word of the Lord and began to profane the 1911. The tribe of the gamesman did place recoil spring guides and extended slide releases upon the 1911 and their metal smiths didst tighten the tolerances and alter parts to their liking, their clearness of mind being clouded by lust.

4 Their artisans did hang all manner of foul implements upon the 1911 and did so alter it that it became impractical to purchase. For lo, the artisans didst charge a great tax upon the purchasers of the 1911 so that the lowly field worker could not afford one. And the profaning of the internal parts didst render it unworkable when the dust of the land fell upon it.

5 And lo, they didst install adjustable sights, which are an abomination unto the Lord. For they doth break and lose their zero when thou dost need true aim. And those who have done so will be slain in great numbers by their enemies in the great battle. a

6 And it came to pass that the Lord didst see the abomination wrought by man and didst cause, as he had warned, fearful malfunctions to come upon the abominations and upon the artisans who thought they could do no wrong.

7 Seeing the malfunctions and the confusion of men, the lord of the underworld did see an opportunity to further ensnare man and didst bring forth pistols made of plastic, whose form was such that they looked and felt like a brick, yet the eyes of man being clouded, they were consumed by the plastic pistol and did buy vast quantities of them.

8 And being a deceitful spirit the lord of the underworld did make these plastic pistols unamenable to the artisans of earth and they were unable to muck much with the design, and lo these pistols did appear to function.

9 And the evil one also brought forth pistols in which the trigger didst both cock and fire them and which require a "dingus" to make them appear safe.

10 But man being stupid did not understand these new pistols and didst proceed to shoot themselves with the plastic pistol and with the trigger cocking pistols for lo their manual of arms required great intelligence which man had long since forsaken. Yet man continue to gloat over these new pistols blaming evil forces for the negligent discharges which they themselves had committed.

11 And when man had been totally ensnared with the plastic pistol, the lord of the underworld didst cause a plague of the terrible Ka-Boom to descend upon man and the plastic pistols delivered their retribution upon men. And there was a great wailing and gnashing of teeth in the land.

12 Then seeing that the eyes of man were slowly being opened and that man was truly sorrowful for his sinful misdeeds, the Lord did send his messengers in the form of artisans who did hear and obey the teachings of the prophet and who didst restore the profaned 1911s to their proper configuration, and lo, to the amazement of men they didst begin to work as the prophet had intended.

13 And the men of the land didst drive out the charlatans and profaners from the land, and there was joy and peace in the land, except for the evil sprits which tried occasionally to prey on the men and women of the land and who were sent to the place of eternal damnation b by the followers of John.


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a Several old manuscripts add the following text. "And they [also rendered as "these men"] didst chamber it for cartridges who's calibers startith with numbers less than the Holy Number 4. And lo the Lord did cause great grief amongst these men when their enemies who were struck in battle with these lesser numbers didst not fall but did continue to cause great harm."

b or Hell

© copyright 2002 by John C. Schaefer

For the faithful, the "feast day" of St. John Moses Browning is January 23.

[Lastmohecken]

I have owned several 1911's and still own four. I have a customized series 70, goverment, a Wilson Combat 5 inch, a 4 inch Kimber Custom Compact, and a Springfield Mis-spec Lightweight Commander.

I have probably shot the 1911 platform, more then any other gun, except .22s. I have also competed in IPSC, IDPA, NRA Hunter Silhouette, and NRA Bullseye with a 1911. Here are some of the things I like on a 1911, and some I don't like.

I am left handed so I have an ambi-safety on three of my guns, but the Mil-spec doesn't have one, which doesn't bother me too much, but I may add one to the mil-spec, later. If I was right handed, then I would not want an ambi-safety, because if you are right handed you just don't need it, even for weak hand drills, or competition, and they are just not quite as strong as a righthanded safety only.

I do kinda like good quality adjustable sights, but they are not really needed if your load hits point of aim.

I see no need for an extended slide release, except maybe for IPSC, but I don't have one on any of my guns, and I have never liked them.

I see no reason for a entended magazine release button. I do however, sometimes cut a little off of the spring to make the button a little lighter to push, but not always.

I like a lowered ejection port, as it doesn't ding up the brass as bad.

I like an arched mainspring housing, which is out of style now days, but I still think it is best for lots of people, including me. And I like a Beavertail grip safety.

Commander hammers are ok, but I am just as happy with a slighty bobbed regular hammer. I have both on my guns.

I like a short trigger to go with that arched mainspring housing, again out of style, now days.

I like good quality magazines, and I have used Wilson combat mags for the most part.

I want a decent trigger job, but I am not so picky on a carry gun, as I like a little heavier trigger on those.

I see little use for big mag well funnels and other stuff hanging down on my gun, but I see some use for them in competion, but I wouldn't have one on a carry gun. I will however file the lips on the mag well if they are not already relieved.

I might change some of the springs out, from time to time, if I thing they need it.

I like a knurled front strap, but it's not absolutely nessary. And I like top quality sharp checkered wood side pannel grips.

Above all they have to be 100% reliable or they get fixed or they get gone.

[txpete]

ol JMB did change some things and made a better pistol


pete

[SMP]

Thanks for the info and pics. I'll try to get a pic of my new Champion up soon.

[Lastmohecken]

ol JMB did change some things and made a better pistol


pete

Well, I got to tell you that I have to disagree with you on that. As the Browning High Power comes out of the box it's not that reliable, has a sorry trigger, tiny safety, and a hammer spring from hell. It needs basic reliability work, and trigger work, and a dehorning job worse then any Colt 1911. And it chambered for a sub caliber.

Now, if you take one and send it to Cylinder and Slide, and get those things worked out on it, then you have a pretty nice gun, and one of my favorites. Currently, I own a Browning High Power in 40 cal. I purchased it used, but someone had sent it to Cylinder and Slide and had quite a bit of work done on it, before I got it. It's a darned nice gun, and I like it a lot, but it's had most everything done on it, that needs to be done to correct the factory shortcommings. But If I had to use one out of box, I would pick another weapon over it, everytime, like almost any 1911.

[tman]

always thought the colt commander was the ultimate. got a glock 27, filled it with the model 23 magazine, with the grip extension. still love the colt, but the 27 fits my hand and points better, at least for me.

[preventec47]

From what I hear our obsession with the 1911 has a lot to do with
rooting for the home team or some type of patriotic inclination
or maybe old time nostalgia.
I dont know a lot about pistol technology but isnt it true more
militarys and police around the world (that can have any pistol
they want) choose other pistol designs?

I think I read that CZ is the most used pistol in the world by
military and police. So what if you took that pistol design and
made it to shoot the 45 acp ( if they dont already have one ).
I think that there may be a lot of other pistol designs that
shoot 45 acp that have more features, are more reliable
or are more tolerant to imprecise manufacturing or dirt
and easier to clean and work with. Also given the more
complex nature and more features implemented
on these other stype 45 cal pistols, I cant understand why
the 1911 pistols cost so darn much. I suspect is is simply
the designer brand lableing pricing/gouging.
Having said all that I'd like to own a 1911 as I would all
pistols I have ever seen that worked and shot reliably.

It just kills me whenever I go to a 1911 website and read
about all the problems people are having with their guns.
Now that I think about it it seems like 1911 pistols are a lot
like leverguns in that they dont represent the latest modern
whiz-bang technology yet are thought fondly of by many old
timers.

[txpete]

ol JMB did change some things and made a better pistol


pete

Well, I got to tell you that I have to disagree with you on that. As the Browning High Power comes out of the box it's not that reliable, has a sorry trigger, tiny safety, and a hammer spring from hell. It needs basic reliability work, and trigger work, and a dehorning job worse then any Colt 1911. And it chambered for a sub caliber.

Now, if you take one and send it to Cylinder and Slide, and get those things worked out on it, then you have a pretty nice gun, and one of my favorites. Currently, I own a Browning High Power in 40 cal. I purchased it used, but someone had sent it to Cylinder and Slide and had quite a bit of work done on it, before I got it. It's a darned nice gun, and I like it a lot, but it's had most everything done on it, that needs to be done to correct the factory shortcommings. But If I had to use one out of box, I would pick another weapon over it, everytime, like almost any 1911.

well we will have to agree to dis-agree on this one .
this one is 100% stock and groups better than my colt 1911's.don't get me wrong I am a solid 1911 fan and have ben for a long time but "for me" this is a better pistol and my house gun.
pete