Antique finish for a lever gun

[Meeteetse]

This may seem silly to some but I am wondering if anyone has a suggestion for an antique finish for a blue gun? As explanation, I have a several Winchester 94's (mostly 30 WCF). Some are pre-64, some post 64. I would like to take one of the post-64 guns and give it an antique finish somehow. I have one that has seen some field time and has some gentle wear, but the finish was never great to begin with, so this one might get a touch up.

Short of taking emery cloth or some other polishing method to distress the bluing, does anyone have any suggestions? I don't want anyone to think I am destroying something valuable, I'm not. I would just like to add some age and distinction to a bland truck gun and I don't want to wait for age to do it's job. I may not last that long.

[gamekeeper]

What is the wood like? If I have a gun with shiny varnish, like my Uberti Yellowboy I usually strip it and give it an old fashioned oil finish.
My 9422 had surface rust when I bought it (cheap) I re-did the stock and forearm with Walnut oil and in removing the rust a lot of the blueing disappeared too! it now looks more like it was made in the 1870s than the 1970s, just the way I like it..

[Meeteetse]

What is the wood like? If I have a gun with shiny varnish, like my Uberti Yellowboy I usually strip it and give it an old fashioned oil finish.
My 9422 had surface rust when I bought it (cheap) I re-did the stock and forearm with Walnut oil and in removing the rust a lot of the blueing disappeared too! it now looks more like it was made in the 1870s than the 1970s, just way I like it..

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The wood on the rifle I want to use is slightly worn with some gentle dings from normal use being a truck gun. It already has a nice oil finish and looks older than the blued metal on the rifle. That is why I want to antique the metal a little to give it some character. I've always been careful with my rifles and I keep the metal well oiled to prevent rust, but I don't worry about the stock as much since a few dings are what memories are made of. Right now the blued parts of the rifle sort of look out of place on the nicely worn stock. I keep looking at the Winchester 32 Special of my uncle's that has been in and out of a scabbard a 1000 times in the last 50 years and wish mine looked the same.

[7.62 Precision]

Later I will post some photos.

Any of the following techniques can be used or not, more or less, depending on how antiqued you want it to be.

Start by draw-filing out any marking you do not want, sand and polish those areas. If you want to go all the way, send it off to be marked with period markings. You can even engrave screw heads where it screws are missing on newer rifles, etc.

Get a rifle-type box long enough to fit the rifle. Put a bit of 100 MPH tape over the muzzle, or better yet over a barrel plug in the muzzle, to protect the crown. Drop the rifle in the box and pour in some random stuff like big nails, punches some small metal tools, etc. I don't use rocks, only metal, because rocks will create abrasive dust. Don't use anything that will transfer a recognizable pattern to metal or wood, like knurled tool handles, etc.

Hold the box stock end down and shake it a bunch. Up and down, side to side. The tip the box end to end. Check and repeat until you like the results. Doing this with the rifle assembled will protect edges that are critical and ad dings and scratches naturally on the high spots. If you disassemble first, you will ding up critical internal edges, and likely split and chip the edges of the stock.

Take the whole thing apart. Use gunsmith screwdrivers if you want to keep things pristine (you know Brownells sells sets of tips by gun model?), or for more realism, get the junkiest wrong-sized screwdrivers out of your toolbox and slip a few times when removing screws. If you use standard scredrivers, you WILL bugger the screw slots at least a bit.

Strip the stock and start your stain and oil finish if that is what prefer, or you can do a stain and lacquer finish, but an oil finish will look better. The finish will take a few days, so start on it first. If you use Tapadera's stain, use the red on the wood, but not too much, then come in carefully with the brown everywhere the wood would pick up staining from oil and gunk. use several coats working the first coats out further from where the wood touches the metal and later coats closer and closer to the edges of the metal contact areas so it is darker the closer it is to the oiled metal. Let the stain set well as the oil finish you apply on top will tend to make it move around. Take care when you rub in the oil. Use a linseed oil (raw is best) or Tung is OK and goes faster. The stain and oil will darken all the dings nicely. Don't use an oil-based stain or any other kind that seals the wood - it will look bad and modern.

Once it is apart, set aside any internal parts that are hidden - they can keep their finish. Degrease all of the metal parts. Get a tray or long tank and fill it with white vinegar. Drop all the metal parts in it and let them soak. The vinegar will take the bluing off and leave a yellowish to reddish stain that can be cleaned off or left. It is better to leave it. Rinse it off, clean the bore and inside of the receiver, and place the magazine tube and barreled action in the oven, along with other parts like the hammer and trigger and screws. Heat it until Birchwood Casey Plum Brown will sizzle on it, and then rub the barrel and parts with the plumb brown. You can do the receiver too if you like, but it generally looks better if you don't. Rinse it off and polish with steel wool. Repeat the process until you have the look you like, it can be smooth and even and shiny if done right, but I think it looks better if you don't do it quite right. I like to leave barrel bands and receiver un-browned, and maybe the lever. Definitely leave the buttplate bright and beat it up extra well.

Reassemble the rifle (be sure internals are well cleaned) and then go to work with steel wool to brighten the high spots and thin the browning where needed. Use the bad screwdrivers when reassembling if you like.

Put a period penny or dime in place of the front sight blade if you feel like it.

Oil the thing and reinstall the refinished stocks. Take it to the range and bask in the envy of everyone who wishes they could afford original 19th century rifles. You can even make up a story about how your great-grandfather . . .

[gamekeeper]

7.62 Precision, that is a very interesting post, looking forward to the photos..

[7.62 Precision]

OK, here are photos of two I have done. For some reason I really had trouble getting good photos of these ones that really show the finish. I suspect It may be my poor photography skills. I tried several times.

First is a Rossi 92. This one was for a customer, was brand new, and the stock was freshly engraved. The customer was about to come pick it up. We also had a brand new dog. Apparently at our place, the dog doesn't eat the homework. She eats the rifle. At least the beautifully engraved stock.

So we bought the customer a new rifle, my 8-year-old saw the dog-chewed stock, and fell in love with it, and wanted the whole rifle to look old. I filed and sanded the engraving back off of the stock, and went to work on it.

So the customer got his new rifle, nicely engraved for a second time. My boy got a new rifle with character that he absolutely loves, and I have a dog that is free to a good home. She is great with kids, playful, and loves guns.




This is about what it looked like before I started:


The second is a Chaparral 1876 NWMP carbine. The stock looked bad, the stock engraving was too deep (laser engraved, not stamped) and it was overall way to shiny for a rifle that had spent decades in the Canadian Northwest. Horseback, dogsled, canoes, Model T Fords, snow, rain, sun; they all take their toll on a rifle's finish. Also the rear sight was all rounded to the point of being very imprecise. I ordered a new unfinished one that is nice and sharp.






This is what it looked like before I started:



By the way, the 1858 Rem pistol in the photo above is one I built from a kit while I was in Iraq to kill time while waiting for missions when on QRF duty - all hand tools while sitting in HMMWVs and finished using the above techniques.

Sorry for the poor photos, hope you can kind of see the results. If anyone wants a malamute/shepherd/border collie/lab/wolf/who-knows-what-else mix, I will post pictures of her, too. Like I said, she loves guns!

[7.62 Precision]

Oh, the receiver on the 1876 will get some more steel wool work where it is carried, where a couple generations of Mounties wore the finish bright with their gloves and mittens.

[gamekeeper]

Seeing someone else likes prematurely aged leverguns I don't feel half as bad about my worn out looking 9422.. Personally I like old guns rather than shiny new ones, its a bit like wearing brand new hunting clothes, makes you look like a newbie..
I have noticed that Winchester 92s used in Westerns, set before they were even invented, all look as though they have been dragged across the Sonoran Desert a few times.

[Rusty]

I made my own trapper years ago starting with a pawn shop purchase. After the choppin was done I wanted something that looked like the time frame so I used Birchwood Casey's Plumb Brown and polished the corners a bit. I ended up trading it off.

[Pete44ru]

.

JMO, 7.62 precision - but there's nothing wrong with your pics, or your work (for that matter).

I really like the way all three turned out.



.

[Hobie]

Where did you get the replacement sight for the 1876?

[Malamute]

....I have noticed that Winchester 92s used in Westerns, set before they were even invented, all look as though they have been dragged across the Sonoran Desert a few times.

On a side note, another thing I noticed fairly recently, there were quite a few short rifles used in old westerns.

[Meeteetse]

Well 7.62 all I can say is "WOW", your work is impressive. I had no idea that you could age something like that. You have given me some great information, now if I can perform the skills needed to do the work I might have something. The nice part is I don't think you can screw it up because you are trying to make it look old and used, not new and shiny.

By the way, there is nothing wrong with your photography, the pictures are great and really show your great work. Thanks very much and thank you for your service to our country. I did my time 40+ years ago. I appreciate what you have done. Dave

[7.62 Precision]

Where did you get the replacement sight for the 1876?

I thought you would be the one to ask.

Sorry, I have to protect my source, might need more later.

Just kidding, of course. Numrich sells unfinished and unmarked rear sights for this rifle. All the edges are sraight and corners sharp. The sight that came on the rifle was WAY overbuffed and every corner was really rounded off, even the corners of the notch, making it very imprecise.

The new sight makes a big difference. The tensioner screw has to be filed down as it has a thick head that blocks the sight (this was already done on the finished sights) and the entire sight is a bit rough with grind and machine marks, but easily finished up to a pretty nice sight. If you want it marked, you would need to figure the correct scale and mark it. I used the original base since it was already marked.

I may put an aperture on the original sight and use it for something in the future. The sights would look good on something like a rolling block, etc. as well, and being unmarked you have flexibility in marking them for different rifle/caliber combos.

By the way, these Chaparral 1876 rifles SHOOT don't they? I need some more ammo . . . and a rifle version . . . holy cow this thing is going to cost me some money . . .

[7.62 Precision]

You have given me some great information, now if I can perform the skills needed to do the work I might have something. The nice part is I don't think you can screw it up because you are trying to make it look old and used, not new and shiny.

You can do it, it's easy. It was trial and error for me, at first. If all you do is strip the finish with vinegar it will look good because the vinegar will leave a bit of a patina and the metal will be a dull grey instead of the bright, shiny silver you get with some chemical strippers. Alternately, you can use the vinegar and rub the finish off by hand in just some places. It will take some work to do and wear gloves. This would give you a cared-for-but used 1950's vintage look. I have a 1949 Winchester '94 that my wife picked up for a steal on Craig's list once when I was off in the bush. It has thinning bluing on the reciever going to bright pollished silver on the high edges and the areas at the lower front of the receiver where it was carried, the barrel bands are mostly sliver, and the barrel and magazine tube are still a deep, shiny blue. Buttplate is worn to silver, mostly, but black in the deep parts of the checkering.

I go to the sites that list fine old leverguns and study the photos to see how they look in different conditions, and how the finish wears. (At least that's what I claim I'm doing on those sites.) Then I wipe the drool off of my keyboard and go to work replicating the look I want.

[7.62 Precision]

By the way, the compass in this photo was my great-grandfather's. He was the first game warden for the state of South Dakota. He carried that compass and an 1886 Winchester. I never met him.

[Griff]

Normally, I don't care for what sometimes passses for "antiquing". Often looking more abused than just used. Gotta say 7.62, yours look "right".

[7.62 Precision]

Thanks, Griff. I expect that both will receive some honest wear from here on. My boy is deadly with the '92 and I have to ration ammo to keep from going broke. I will get some heavy .357s and try to put him and his brother (both have .357 Rossi 92s) on a couple bear in the spring.

I'm going to try to get a bear with the '76, too, but I have to shoot one with the .50 Beowulf first, so I can finish up my Beowulf video.

I like the look of a well-used rifle, but hate to see one abused. Growing up in the bush in Alaska, the most common rifles I saw were well-used leverguns with little finish left (most people fighting rust then in the coastal Alaskan villages used WD-40 on their rifles, not realizing that it removes bluing, or the danger of having it in the chamber or bore).

A worn rifle with some scars and character can also be used. Nothing is worse than someone who has the most beautiful rifle that you have ever seen but spends all their time on a hard hunt worrying about hurting it cosmetically. (Ok, there is something worse: those with rough military-finished rifles like AR-15s or AKs who can't function in a training course for fear of dinging their rifles).

On the other hand, I love a beautiful rifle with deep bluing, fine wood, and bright case colouring as much as anyone else does. I have seen some mint original rifles and some restorations that I would gladly own.

[Roland]

These three guns have each a different type of finish. From top to bottom.

-Factory varnish
-Boiled Linseed oil
-Birchwood Casey tru-oil.



I've bought some chinese tung oil and will be stripping the varnish of the uberti soon enough. I will probably use some walnut stain.

Here's a closeup of my 870 as well, birchwood casey tru-oil, no stain:

[7.62 Precision]

Nice job on the finishes.

I have used all of the finishes mentioned and prefer a real oil finish to anything. I like both tung and linseed oil, with the best linseed oil being some of the harder-to-find raw types. The current BLO, for the most part, is linseed oil with some varnish and dying agents added, so it does not give as deep a finish in the end. Some of the better "raw" LO is basically what BLO used to be.

A good oil finish on a piece of wood that has been carefully dried, can be as stable as a laminate, as the wood cannot pick up or release moisture. I start out cutting the oil with turpentine more than most people do to get it very deep into the grain, and I don't seal the grain right away like many people do. A good oil finish will take days for the initial finish, and then it is nice to make an application once a month for several months after.

After that I take beeswax, melt it, and mix it at least half and half with the oil I used over low heat in a small glass jar in a pan of water. Seal it up (less airspace is better, if it starts to get drier in the future, just heat again and add some more oil) and use it to coat the stock. Use something totally lint-free, like panty hose (the only reason my wife ever buys them is for me to cut up) and apply with a polishing motion just like polishing a boot with Kiwi. This makes a very nice looking finish that protects the wood and can be easily touched up any time it is dinged or scratched. It also replenishes the oil in the stock. With the wax the wood really glows.

I do not like BC Tru-Oil. I like many of their other products, but not the Tru-Oil. I think it is the emperor's new clothes of oil finishes. People like it because it is easy and everyone raves about it. The results can look good, and you can do a nice blond finish with it on lighter woods, but you can do the same with tung oil.

I have tried it using the supplied directions and using recommendations from professionals who use it. In no case did I find that it penetrated the wood deep enough to have the advantages of a true oil finish, nor was it strong enough to have the advantages of a varnish or poly finish. I put a ton of work into a particular stock using the Tru-Oil. Coat after coat, taken down carefully and built back up, following the best suggestions of professional users.

I took that rifle on a late fall moose hunt in a pretty unaccessible area. We spent 2 days just trying to fight our way in in a non-stop storm of rain mixed with heavy, wet snow. I was wearing wool gloves (wool is slightly abrasive, especially when it's wet) and they rubbed through the Tru-Oil finish. Once the finish was worn through, the stock soaked until the surface of the wood was waterlogged back under the finish, causing the finish to rub off easier in some other places as well. It was a mess. I brought it home, stripped the finish off, dried the stock for a few months, and did a tung oil finish followed with coat of tung oil/beeswax. Looks beautiful and water rolls off.

For me, the Tru-Oil can look great, just like a varnish, lacquer, or shellack can look great, but has the same problem of no longer protecting the wood once scratched.

It is not really any less work than a real oil, and if you want something that is a bit faster drying than Linseed, then Tung works good. If you want a totally original-looking finish on a levergun, you can use an alcohol-based stain and lacquer which can replicate the most common type of finish and is pretty easy to do, or else an oil finish, or an oil finish with a shellack over the top, both of which were done on some fancier rifles.

There are companies who specialize in finishing products for people who handcraft period-style furniture that have the right kinds of finishing products.

When you finish the stock on the '73, please post photos. I would like to see the results if the tung oil finish.

[Streetstar]

WOW --- I love the look of the Rossi you did for your boy ! - you guys are enablers for sure -- now I really really want one

[Old Ironsights]

And here I thought that all I had to do to "antique"/distress a gun was to bounce it around in the open bed of a 4-wheeler for a season or two...

[7.62 Precision]

And here I thought that all I had to do to "antique"/distress a gun was to bounce it around in the open bed of a 4-wheeler for a season or two...

Do you mean a 4-wheeler trailer? How do you usually carry a rifle on a 4-wheeler?

Up here it is riding is skiffs on the salt water that really puts the wear on them. I have had stainless rifles in for refinishing that were completely red with rust, and others that had to have every pin, detent, etc. drilled out, or parts so rusted together that it was more work to disassemble the gun than new one was worth.

[Old Ironsights]

Nah, I mean a Quad... or in the case of AK alder swamps, an Argo.

I know what you mean about Stainless... it was my time living in Anchorage that got me hooked on the stuff. Certainly not perfect, but at least it wouldn't pit immediately on stepping into the Deshka...

[7.62 Precision]

Oh, you must mean a side-by-side, that makes more sense.

I do a lot of Duracoat finishes on stainless rifles - it is a good combo for protecting the rifle and a lot of people want the advantages of stainless, but don't like the bright finish. Still , a lot of people think they can buy a stainless firearm and just go with it without any concern about rust. Good stainless steels used in firearms will still rust and pit, just not as fast, but the big mistake people make is in not realizing that there will be springs and varying numbers of internal parts that are not stainless. Some brands of bolt rifles have a stainless barrel, bolt, receiver, and bottom metal and everything else is still the same carbon steel parts used in their non-stainless rifles. Ruger, it seems, has found a way to make good SS springs for their revolvers, and I see that a lot of their non-SS springs have been discontinued and replaced with SS. Still, these guys buy a nice S&W 44 mag, or a Ruger or Taurus, whatever, and assume that since it is stainless they can just shake it off when they drop it in the bilge or fall in trying to drag in that big king and just put it back in the holster. After a couple years of that kind of treatment, they decide to try to shoot it and find that it is inoperable.

I was hunting with a friend and a couple former Air Force guys. The Air Force guys were maybe not so used to AK hunting and knowing their way around a boat. There was a bit of water on deck and they dropped my wife's stainless Rossi .454 in it and it stayed there submerged for an hour or so as the boats owner and myself were occupied with navigating through some inlets and bays in the dark at the time. I had quite a bit of internal cleaning and rust removal to do, (and replaced some springs) and a few spots on the surface to clean up.

I don't mind blued steel at all. I just know that in the coastal environments, especially SE Alaska, the Aleutians, etc., the finish will be worn and there will be surface rust to deal with sometimes. I don't mind that at at all - it is what rifles look like here.

Have you ever looked at a lot of K31s? As they come from Switzerland, they never have any rust and their bores are like mirrors. They were used often in wet and damp conditions, yet not on the coast, of course. The swiss cleaned and lubed the rifles and bore exclusively with grease. There may be something to that for protecting a finish and keeping rust out of the bore.

[7.62 Precision]

By the way, there are other ways to make a rifle look worn, totally inappropriate for most leverguns, maybe just right for a new Remlin 336 or Mossbergs's collapsible stock railed abomination though:




This finish is done entirely with Duracoat, so the firearm has complete protection. Even dents and scratches on the stock are Duracoat. Since we posted these photos, many people started offering zombie finishes, but we feel none come close to this in both the wear on the weapon and the realism of the blood/brain splatter.
http://762precision.wordpress.com/custo ... ie-killer/

[nemhed]

7.62 Precision, great photos and nice work. Thanks for posting!

[kokopelli]

This is about what it looked like before I started:

7.62- how did you deal with the Braztech lawyer safety on the 92? I don't see the little 'ears' sticking up, did you go with one of Stevez plugs?

[2ndovc]

I've spent all afternoon trying to find a levergun to antique like those in the photos (awesome!).
I thought I would do my Rossi '92 but it's an Interarms Early import that
I bought New in the Box! I had Nate/ Steve work over the action and new sights but
otherwise it's as new and solid reliable and aside from one scratch it's perfect.

I've been thinking about a Mare's leg in .44 Magnum. I think I'll try it with that one when I get it.



jb

[Sixgun]

7.62'
Nice work! It's a rare Italian gun that impresses me and your 76 is one of them. What a world of difference between the new look and the way you antiqued it. I guess I'm too "old head" and prefer guns that have the used look.

It's easy to get bluing off. Go to the auto parts store and get some rust remover.

Take the wood off and disassemble the gun. Coat it down with rust remover and you will have a white gun in 30 seconds.

Antique it? I do work on a "fun basis" for Targetmaster. A few years ago, he handed me an 1861 Springfield Civil War gun that someone inscribed their serial number on the lock plate. The plate had that very nice 150 year old patina on it.

I sandblasted the social security number off then antiqued that spot and matched it up perfectly with the rest of the lock.

Patina is rust, a very gradual rust built up over many years. It can be done in a matter of weeks just by rusting up the metal you want to antique, steel wool it, and keep doing it until you have the level of patina you want.-----Sixgun

[Old Ironsights]

I really like that Mauser with Magazine BTW... The Zombie schtick is cool, but I'd just like the gun... with a little bit longer barrel, to be sure, but That detachable box is great.

[1894c]

ok...this is a great thread...the pics and info are good too...thank you for sharing... :)

[7.62 Precision]

7.62- how did you deal with the Braztech lawyer safety on the 92? I don't see the little 'ears' sticking up, did you go with one of Stevez plugs?

No, but I use Steve's plugs on two other Rossis.

On this one, I marked the safety just barely above flush, took it out, cut off the bottom, cut the top down until it was barely above flush, reinstalled and went to work draw filing until the plug was flush with the bolt and the letters filed down. Now it is almost invisible.

Of course, this method requires a refinish (or an antique finish). Steve's plug is much easier and does not require a refinish.

The best way is by welding, of course.

[Swampman]

These pics are awesome!!!

[Sixgun]

1878 Sharps 45-70 throated for 550 gr. paper patch bullets 135 years of patina.---6

[earlmck]

Some fine pictures and great info, 7.62. Thanks! And thanks for bringing up the subject, Meeteetse.
I'm saving this info for trying out this winter when things slow down around here -- most of my guns already have a fair amount of "antiquing" that has happened to them, but many of them could use a good oil finish.

[rbertalotto]

By the way, the 1858 Rem pistol in the photo above is one I built from a kit while I was in Iraq to kill time while waiting for missions when on QRF duty - all hand tools while sitting in HMMWVs and finished using the above techniques.

I gotta ask......when finished, was it used to defend life and honor?

(Nice work BTW)

[Meeteetse]

When I asked the question I had no idea that so many were interested. I know I have gotten some great ideas and the pictures are amazing. Sometimes the hardest part is the first step, making a so-so gun look old. Most of us are trying to go the other way. Thanks everyone, keep the info coming.

[kokopelli]

7.62- how did you deal with the Braztech lawyer safety on the 92? I don't see the little 'ears' sticking up, did you go with one of Stevez plugs?

No, but I use Steve's plugs on two other Rossis.

On this one, I marked the safety just barely above flush, took it out, cut off the bottom, cut the top down until it was barely above flush, reinstalled and went to work draw filing until the plug was flush with the bolt and the letters filed down. Now it is almost invisible.

Of course, this method requires a refinish (or an antique finish). Steve's plug is much easier and does not require a refinish.

The best way is by welding, of course.

if you could show a picture of two of how that turned out I'd appreciate it. As far as welding up the hole and re-bluing- that was my first intention, but appears cost prohibitive- one estimate was nearly the cost of the gun itself! I've done plum-brown finishes before, so that's something I can do on my own...

[7.62 Precision]

By the way, the 1858 Rem pistol in the photo above is one I built from a kit while I was in Iraq to kill time while waiting for missions when on QRF duty - all hand tools while sitting in HMMWVs and finished using the above techniques.

I gotta ask......when finished, was it used to defend life and honor?

(Nice work BTW)

Well, there was an unfortunate twist of fate that prevented it. Kirst used to offer a cartridge conversion cylinder for .45 ACP, which I could order through supply (the ammo). Just when I was about to order the cylinder, they discontinued it - my wife couldn't find one anywhere. So if that cylinder had still been available, then yes, an 1858 Remington pistol would once again have ridden in defense of life and honor in a hostile land.

It most definitely accompanied me on missions, but it was not fired.

[K1500]

I would haunt the used racks of the LGS and find one that someone else had 'antiqued' already. I love the look myself, but I want to think of the stories the gun could tell with the wear. I have a flatband that has a nice amount of wear on it. I spent less on it than I would have by buying a newer rifle and trying to make it look old. Just throwing that out as another option, since buying another gun is ALWAYS a good idea.

[7.62 Precision]

I would haunt the used racks of the LGS and find one that someone else had 'antiqued' already. I love the look myself, but I want to think of the stories the gun could tell with the wear. I have a flatband that has a nice amount of wear on it. I spent less on it than I would have by buying a newer rifle and trying to make it look old. Just throwing that out as another option, since buying another gun is ALWAYS a good idea.

. . . plus the older ones are always so much cooler!