Got myself a Hi Power

Bruce Scott · Post by **Bruce Scott** » Sat Jul 27, 2013 5:52 pm

I was after a 9mm for range use and had in mind either a CZ or Tanfoglio when I spotted this at the right price. Having carried an L9A1 in the army, nostalgia was a compelling argument and after many weeks of waiting for my licence application to be approved, I picked it up yesterday. Since then I have barely put it down. Hi Powers are special!

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Sat Jul 27, 2013 6:03 pm

Very nice! I love Hi Powers! I had a nice collection of about twenty or so from
various contracts. My favorites were the Canadian Inglis pistols.
I sold them all off when they got pricey around here. There are three of them I wish I'd kept.
An Inglis with the shoulder stock, a Belgian MFG for the Argentine police and a German WWII proofed
that was brought home after the war with the capturer papers ( I got Big $$ for that one).

Have fun!

jb

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Sat Jul 27, 2013 6:14 pm

Sweet. First handgun I ever carried was a HP.

Best 9mm ever.

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Sat Jul 27, 2013 6:21 pm

Friend of mine recently back from Afghanistan with the Australian contingent was over here visiting. He shot my wife's Israeli police contract "basically NIB" Hi-Power. His highly favorable comments about it over the very worn L9A1 he used in Afghanistan were kind of funny, because civilian Beretta 92's tend to get the same reaction from guys used to beat up M9's.

pwl44m · Post by **pwl44m** » Sat Jul 27, 2013 6:40 pm

Nice Pistola, is that a 10rd or 13 rd mag ? I have an Argentine High Power that came with a 10 rd mag (stupid Ca.) but there are ways around that.
Perry

stretch · Post by **stretch** » Sat Jul 27, 2013 6:47 pm

Excellent! Looks great.

I, too, am a fan of Hi-Powers.

-Stretch

Bruce Scott · Post by **Bruce Scott** » Sat Jul 27, 2013 6:56 pm

Perry,

Its a ten rounder. Higher capacity mags are also too dangerous here -

44shooter · Post by **44shooter** » Sat Jul 27, 2013 7:18 pm

coolest hi cap 9 ever.

Model 52B · Post by **Model 52B** » Sat Jul 27, 2013 7:38 pm

I am a Hi Power fan and they are the only double stack high capacity 9mm pistol that fits my hand well. They point exceptionally well and with the magazine safety removed, they have fairly decent triggers that allow fairly quick double taps and controlled pairs.

It's impressive that they were first manufactured in 1935 and were the first "wonder nine" with a 13 round magazine in an era where 8 was the norm. It took a full 35 years for the rest of the world to catch up, and it is still superior to other high capacity 9mm pistols such as the Beretta 92.

My FN SFS Hi Power is my preferred wintertime concealed carry weapon.

----

To bad about the 10 round limit. I hedged my bets and picked up another half dozen 15 round magazines before the last election here. The good news is that it only takes about a second and a half to change a Hi Power magazine and the rat trap magazines eject themselves clear quite nicely - even with the pistol nearly inverted.

----

I've never liked the grips FN puts on them now. Try a set of Spegel grips as they are quite good, but in my opinion the best Hi Power grips ever, odd as it sounds, are the (long since discontinued) Uncle Mikes rubber grips. They use a Spegel profile and the rubber compound is just about perfect in terms of hardness and tackiness.

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:32 pm

What a great pistol. I love Hi-Powers but don't have one right now. That must be rectified!

ENJOY IT!!

gamekeeper · Post by **gamekeeper** » Sun Jul 28, 2013 5:12 am

The Hi Power was the only 9mm I got to fire before handguns became too dangerous for us Brits to own, I liked it...

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Sun Jul 28, 2013 7:05 am

I don't consider the HP superior to the 92, though nicely set up examples can be. Out of the box though, Berettas tend to have better triggers than factory military HPs, though the HP fits most people a bit better.

Model 52B · Post by **Model 52B** » Sun Jul 28, 2013 8:12 am

MrMurphy wrote:I don't consider the HP superior to the 92, though nicely set up examples can be. Out of the box though, Berettas tend to have better triggers than factory military HPs, though the HP fits most people a bit better.

The 92 is much larger than a 15 round 9mm needs to be, the grip is too thick, the slide mounted controls are not ergonomically friendly and the trigger reach is too long for a large percentage of shooters. Beretta's short reach trigger kit helps a bit with the latter problem, but it was still an incredibly poor choice for a military issue weapon even before we get into subsequent slide fractures, embrittled fire control parts that break and poorly thought out finishes on replacement magazines that cause feed issues.

The US military really screwed itself when it insisted on DA operation and administratively eliminated the Hi Power, a pistol with at least equal capability to the 92F, but with decades of excellent military service behind it.

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:04 pm

HP's are nice handguns. And the well made ones (there were some WWII era versions that were a bit rough), just percolate. I carried one for a bit when I was enamored by the magazine capacity. But, I went back to the 1911 cuz I had more faith in the bigger heavier bullet (all ball stuff for both). The one I had was an Inglis made in Canada. Finish left something to be desired, but it went bang every time.

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:11 pm

Model 52B wrote:
MrMurphy wrote:I don't consider the HP superior to the 92, though nicely set up examples can be. Out of the box though, Berettas tend to have better triggers than factory military HPs, though the HP fits most people a bit better.
The 92 is much larger than a 15 round 9mm needs to be, the grip is too thick, the slide mounted controls are not ergonomically friendly and the trigger reach is too long for a large percentage of shooters. Beretta's short reach trigger kit helps a bit with the latter problem, but it was still an incredibly poor choice for a military issue weapon even before we get into subsequent slide fractures, embrittled fire control parts that break and poorly thought out finishes on replacement magazines that cause feed issues.

The US military really screwed itself when it insisted on DA operation and administratively eliminated the Hi Power, a pistol with at least equal capability to the 92F, but with decades of excellent military service behind it.

Even worse, there were better "wonder nines" (the HP is not a wonder nine - it's single action) available for them to consider. I was and continue to be stunned that they keep buying that thing.

I do agree though, that out of the box the 92 is generally the smoother and more reliable pistol.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:57 pm

I really like the old War versions with the wood shoulder-stock/scabbard.

Bruce Scott · Post by **Bruce Scott** » Sun Jul 28, 2013 5:08 pm

The trigger on this one is similar to my 96 Mauser. Two distinct smooth stages, the first quite long but neither of them at all heavy. The mag disconnect is still in place.

Post by **Hobie** » Sun Jul 28, 2013 5:36 pm

That's nice and much prettier than mine!

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Sun Jul 28, 2013 5:41 pm

I agree there are better 9's out there, I've owned or shot most of them.

At the time of adoption, sticking with DA action, nothing was really 'better'. The Sig is different, but not necessarily better, they have their own issues. It is indeed a big pistol, and the controls I don't necessarily like. However, for a carried-a-lot-shot-almost-never piece, it's somewhat irrelevant.

We had 4'9" females in my unit who carried an M9 as a secondary weapon and managed to shoot it just fine even with small hands. I'd personally prefer a Glock 17 or M&P9 in the plastic crowd, or a CZ-75BD with short trigger set in the metal crowd.

If SA guns were allowed, the HP Mark III would have been a nice choice, it's been modernized to fix the few issues the older models did have.

Still, the Beretta is reliable (with Beretta brand mags and some lube), accurate, and soft shooting. I never needed to use mine when I was in, but I was confident in it and it worked.

Mag-wise, PB (Beretta), MDS (also Beretta), Mec-Gar, Airtronics, Checkmate (post 2007 manufacture) is the order of reliability, first to last. The older Checkmate mags with the spray on finish inside the mags are what gave the Beretta reliability problems, the gov't tried to go cheap.

Even Hi Powers aren't perfect, but if you are a HP fan, read up Stephen A. Camp's works on his website. He died a couple years back, but he was a HP expert and wrote a ton on them as well as shooting a lot of excellent photos.

MacEntyre · Post by **MacEntyre** » Sun Jul 28, 2013 7:17 pm

I got my third HP one week before yours. It was my birthday... a friend called to offer me five HP mags that the buyer of his HP did not want. When he mentioned that the buyer was still thinking about buying the pistol, I started asking questions. Ended up getting a great bargain for a box stock, late 60s, Belgian, red grip HP with the original mag and five MecGar 15 round mags!

I have another late 60's Belgian HP that has been refinished, and a FM Detective (Argentine HP with 4" barrel). I like them a lot!

- MacEntyre

Model 52B · Post by **Model 52B** » Sun Jul 28, 2013 8:57 pm

MrMurphy wrote: We had 4'9" females in my unit who carried an M9 as a secondary weapon and managed to shoot it just fine even with small hands. I'd personally prefer a Glock 17 or M&P9 in the plastic crowd, or a CZ-75BD with short trigger set in the metal crowd.

If SA guns were allowed, the HP Mark III would have been a nice choice, it's been modernized to fix the few issues the older models did have.

When you say "shoot it just fine" what do you mean? Getting at least 24 out of 40 hits on a E silhouette at 25m - enough to qualify, or actually shooting it well in a close quarter combat situation, being able to control it, shoot decent controlled pairs and double taps and being able to retain the weapon? The large grip is not much of an impediment in simple shooting, but it makes the pistol much harder to control and retain when a solider can't get his or her fingers wrapped all the way around it.

---

FN entered a predecesor of their SFS Hi Power, which allows the pistol to be cocked and locked with the hammer down on a hammer block. Depressing the safety lever puts the hammer back into the firing position and allows a light, short, single action trigger pull. In effect, it accomplished everything the US military wanted and addressed the perceived concerns of single action operation on the M1911A, but without the downside of a long and heavy DA trigger pull, but it was not technically DA operation and was rejected on that technical basis alone. It was a major mistake.

---

A friend of mine (former armorer, current military contractor) was consulted on the growing concern that large numbers of M9s were experiencing fire control parts breakage despite relatively low round counts. He does not tolerate idiots very well and he just referred them to their own technical manual and pointed out to them that the required safety function check, means the round count may be extremely low, but the pistol experiences 3 hammer falls with each and every safety and function check and many of them have been checked thousands of times - literally checked to the point of failure. That's something that goes with the DA/de-cocker territory and is something that should have been considered in the adoption criteria and testing of competing designs. Major fail and it requires the replacement of the "impacted" fire control parts.

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:17 pm

None had trouble qualifying. Due to our particular range setup and local situation, they never got to train much with the M9 so the CQB, etc never came up. Realistically, they all preferred their M4's, but they could shoot and score effective hits. With as little as the USAF emphasized pistol shooting, not really surprising. Some of the stateside units got to shoot a LOT more and send some of their people to the professional schools, we didn't have that luxury.

Owning a 92FS of my own for training and having been shooting for 20+ years, shooting IDPA and similar I had no issues running the gun.

With the condition of typical military Hi Powers, they wouldn't have been all that much better. Smaller grip, but still crappy sights and trigger. The Mark III improved both of those at least.

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:40 pm

I'm pretty biased since I was a Pathfinder in the Army, but this custom Hi-Power from Cylinder & Slide is one I'd really like to have some day:

1894c · Post by **1894c** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:21 am

i started my transition from revolver to semi-auto with a Canadian made Browning High-Power, what a great handgun, accurate, fit my hand, was too stupid to keep it, bought a couple of S&W 659's and S&W 669's then transitioned over to a Glock--never looked back (have shot the Beretta 92, nice choice too).

The British Army is moving away from it's Browning HP's and going with the Glock 17 (Gen-4)--see attached article... :)
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-1 ... years.html

PS-- Bruce Scott ...i really like your choice in 9mm pistol...i'm very fond
of that design, as stated above that's the 1st auto i ever owned, wish i still had it...
Speer Gold-Dots make some non +P 9mm which is very good for defense... :)

MacEntyre · Post by **MacEntyre** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:46 am

I always liked the C&S SFS trigger mod, although I've never had one. Anyway, I read up on the C&S Pathfinder HP. Sounded interesting, until I got to this:

"The recoil springs must be changed every 500 rounds to ensure proper function, as they are so short that they will fatigue and lose tension after the prescribed number of rounds."

Also, the Pathfinder uses 10 round mags... how is that an improvement? I guess the idea is to make a smaller gun, so that makes sense.

- MacEntyre

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 7:34 am

Always wanted a HP. Never had any desire at all for a 92. My hands fit the 92 quite well, but I suppose my attitude is the same as it was about Ar15's for the longest time. I figured I shot enough of them in the Army, they're not something I would voluntarily buy as a civilian.
correspondingly, my first "black rifle" years ago was a FAL variant, then a mini-14

Model 52B · Post by **Model 52B** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:04 am

MacEntyre wrote:I always liked the C&S SFS trigger mod, although I've never had one. Anyway, I read up on the C&S Pathfinder HP. Sounded interesting, until I got to this:

"The recoil springs must be changed every 500 rounds to ensure proper function, as they are so short that they will fatigue and lose tension after the prescribed number of rounds."

Also, the Pathfinder uses 10 round mags... how is that an improvement? I guess the idea is to make a smaller gun, so that makes sense.

- MacEntyre

The norm for recoil spring changes is 800 rounds on some of the 4" 1911s, and it just goes with the shorter slide territory. And the cost of a new Wolf recoil spring is not much compared to the cost of the five hundred rounds between springs, even if you're reloading with cast bullets.

My major objection to concealed carry with a Hi Power in the summer is the longish grip, so i'd love to have a Hi Power with a shorter slide and grip, and I could live with a 10 round magazine.

Charles · Post by **Charles** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:22 am

The BHP is a must have pistol for a true gun nut. They are sheer elegance in machined steel. They also fit my hand well and I can make one sit up and do tricks.

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:04 am

I had a Browning HP for years. Great pistol. Put together well and was very reliable. It had very low profile fixed sights on it but was accurate considering those sights - could get a nice 4" to 5" group at 25-yards.

One of the guys down at the VFW Hall had one with Chinese Script that he picked up during the Korean War. He passed away last year and left it to our VFW Hall Museum. The youngest guy in our VFW Chapter is 60-years old so we are in the process of donating all our guns to the NRA Museum. We just can't get the younger guys interested. Too bad. The VFW is a great organization and does a lot for Vets.

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:40 pm

You're of the right age to remember or have experienced how the Vietnam guys got treated by the WW2 guys in the VFW and American Legion. My dad was one of those.

I've never tried to join the VFW or American Legion despite qualifying for both, but quite a few guys scattered all over the country (as well as in other countries with similar organizations) have reported getting similar treatment coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan...... highly dismissive or unfriendly.

Might want to think about that.

Model 52B · Post by **Model 52B** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:57 pm

MrMurphy wrote:You're of the right age to remember or have experienced how the Vietnam guys got treated by the WW2 guys in the VFW and American Legion. My dad was one of those.

I've never tried to join the VFW or American Legion despite qualifying for both, but quite a few guys scattered all over the country (as well as in other countries with similar organizations) have reported getting similar treatment coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan...... highly dismissive or unfriendly.

Might want to think about that.

I was not going to bring it up, but I had exactly the same thought.

My dad was a WWII vet who waited 20 years to have kids, so he had no issues with the VFW. However I clearly remember my uncles' reception by the WWII and Korean war dominated VFW. They were told very clearly that Vietnam was not a real war and that even though technically eligible, they were not welcome. From what I can tell, not much has changed in that regard with Gulf War and Iraq and Afghanistan vets in many VFW posts.

Consequently, for some posts I think it's just the chickens coming home to roost for a group of short sighted folks who never got the larger mission of the VFW and failed to realize the need for new blood and an equal measure of respect for all veterans of foreign wars - not just vets from "the big one". For the rest of the posts unfortunately, it's probably a case of being painted with the same brush even if they did nothing to deserve it.

92&94 · Post by **92&94** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:52 pm

I have two of them, one I bought new in 1992, and a T-series I bought a few years ago.

Neither has the mag safety any more, and the 1992 model has had a nice trigger job. Probably my favorite 9mm auto.

I've changed the sights on both since I took that pic. The top one now has some fiber HiViz fiber optics (meh.... one day I'd like to try a better set on it), the T-series has an adjustable LPA rear now.

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:45 pm

Model 52B wrote:[Consequently, for some posts I think it's just the chickens coming home to roost for a group of short sighted folks who never got the larger mission of the VFW and failed to realize the need for new blood and an equal measure of respect for all veterans of foreign wars - not just vets from "the big one". For the rest of the posts unfortunately, it's probably a case of being painted with the same brush even if they did nothing to deserve it.

As a Gulf War era vet, I can say this, if I was ever pooh-poohed at a veterans meeting , I just wouldn't go back ------ in today's society, we are all so darn busy with our respective lives, anything negative is not worth the time when it could be better spent with family, friends, hobbies& recreation, or making more money to do or support all the above

pwl44m · Post by **pwl44m** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:01 pm

Thread Drift, Thread Drift. While the content has merit, this is about HPs. Just sayin.
Perry

Bruce Scott · Post by **Bruce Scott** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:40 pm

92&94 wrote:I have two of them, one I bought new in 1992, and a T-series I bought a few years ago.

.... the T-series has an adjustable LPA rear now.

92&94,

Is this the LPA you are using?
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/953880 ... steel-blue

92&94 · Post by **92&94** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:57 am

Bruce Scott wrote:
92&94 wrote:I have two of them, one I bought new in 1992, and a T-series I bought a few years ago.

.... the T-series has an adjustable LPA rear now.

92&94,

Is this the LPA you are using?
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/953880 ... steel-blue

That looks like it. Pachmayr imported them for a while and sold them in their own packaging, sometimes you can find a NOS one on gunbroker. Its the only adjustable I know of that's low enough to work with that short blade.

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:38 am

pwl44m wrote:Thread Drift, Thread Drift. While the content has merit, this is about HPs. Just sayin.
Perry

Yes. Looking forward to the range report Bruce!

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:31 am

MrMurphy wrote:You're of the right age to remember or have experienced how the Vietnam guys got treated by the WW2 guys in the VFW and American Legion. My dad was one of those.

I've never tried to join the VFW or American Legion despite qualifying for both, but quite a few guys scattered all over the country (as well as in other countries with similar organizations) have reported getting similar treatment coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan...... highly dismissive or unfriendly.

Might want to think about that.

That's absolute BS as far as the VFW goes. PM me and I'll spell out BS for you in case you don't get it.. I never had a problem with the VFW and the VFW actively recruits Iraq and Afghanistan vets. The same goes for the DAV.

By the way. What's "quite a few guys"? Ten, twenty, fifty, one hundred, a thousand, a hundred thousand, five hundred thousand? - and what Posts scattered all over the country were dismissive or unfriendly to the Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan vets?

I have no experience with the American Legion.

BigSky56 · Post by **BigSky56** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:39 pm

The HP is a excellent combat pistol after having a failure with a 45 acp out of a 1911 I acquired a Canadian HP, no more failures to get the job done. At the end of the day when the smoke has cleared is when you know if a weapon was up to the task and you can trust your life to it, the HP & 9mm never failed me. danny

wecsoger · Post by **wecsoger** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:54 pm

Wow, what a bunch of neat HP comments, guys!

I've got two, or I guess one and a half.

The real one I have, has an interesting story. FN made up a lot of the old style extractor HP's for Argentina. I've still got mine, with original box, and two associated serially numbered magazines. And for those of you who know what I'm talking about, it is an actual "FN", not the "FM" copies made later.

So saying, I haven't shot it a lot. Being of the knuckle dragger persuasion, I can't shoot a regular HP because the darn things chew on my hand like a wire haired terrier on double espressos. Don't tell me to adjust my grip, that just slows down the rate at which I get bloody.

For my half, I've got another, the FEG clone, which is an exact copy of the new style extractor HP's. It's a true clone, parts from one will match with the other. I finally broke down, went to Brownells and bought a replacement hammer. This one just gives me little nips so I can keep the bandages at home on range day.

The latter, I've got a stack of South American 17 rounders CDNN was selling a decade ago and I've got it stashed...in a secure place. I'm not planning on a zombie invasion...but ya just never know.

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:32 pm

Old Ironsights wrote:
Best 9mm ever.

+1

Great find!

(cruddy ammo though; I've never had luck with that brand)

wecsoger · Post by **wecsoger** » Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:19 am

For you collector guys...

Yes, this is not a High Power. But it is a clone of the new extractor style HP, a copy good enough that I can exchange parts with a 'real' FN made HP.

These little guys hit the market 8 -10 years ago as I recall. Came in plain jane styrofoam box and that was it. Gun show prices around $200 and you could get cheaper at pawn shops or private sales. I wish I had bought a couple at that price then. No one wanted them because they weren't a 'real' HP, even though they are an exact copy, with good steel and good materials.

Last one I saw at a gun show was marked $350 and I bet I could have beaten him down a lot. No $$ at the time.

If you want a good shooter these are an excellent buy.

Mag is a South African one (so I was told) imported by CDNN, a 17 rounder. Think they were $20 or so back at the same time. Realistically they're only 15 rounds because the last two are way too hard to load, even with a mag loader.

With the mag disconnect removed the trigger pull is excellent and I installed the 'no-bite' hammer. At least now it only nips a little in my large hands.

I've thought at times about an extended mag release and more hefty safety, but I rarely carry it.

Holster is a Fobus (obviously) it's the C21 which is the same one for the standard 1911 frame - the HP fits perfectly.

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:09 pm

That's an FEG, Hungarian made. They make half a dozen different HP clones, either direct clones or derivatives (DA action).

wecsoger · Post by **wecsoger** » Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:39 pm

Spot on. Would have said that, but hoped the picture was clear enough.

You are correct, there are multiple FEG variants so if you need to know what you're looking for. This one is the exact copy.

One story I heard was a huge batch was made up for Iraq during the Saddam regime, trying to put one over on them when they were expecting FN high powers.

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:31 pm

Hi Powers have been used and made all over the world, so who knows.

CZ-75's are similar, everyone from Turkey to China clones them.

Gregor · Post by **Gregor** » Sun Aug 04, 2013 4:06 am

I replaced the factory rubber wrap around with some Herrett's cocobolo wood stocks from CDNN. They are much thinner and are bargin priced. Just bought a Ruger SR9 to keep the round count low on mt HP. Grip is even thinner than the HP and feels good.