Compare powders H4895 to H4198 and 3031

86er · Post by **86er** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:56 pm

Being a novice I don't know the difference in these powders. 4198 was recommended to me for 45-70. However, I see that 4895 can be loaded in 45-70 and 308 Win. Skimming through reloading manuals I see the pressure for H4895 seems to be constantly lower than similar velocity loads with 4198. Then again it seem 3031 could serve in 45-70 and 308 also. But 3031 requires more pressure to achieve the same velocity compared to 4895.

Logically, H4895 kills two birds with one stone for me. So could 3031.

Inexperience shines through here.

I am missing something that you experienced loaders might know?

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 5:08 pm

I'm not real experienced but I use 3031 alot in 45/70 & 7mm08.
It seems to me to perform best at higher velocities in the 45/70. I only use 2400 now for wimp loads & 3031 for higher end loads.
Theres lots I think that would work well for both. I never used either 4198 or 4895 so I cant comment on them.

SMP · Post by **SMP** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 5:22 pm

H4895 is a good powder for the 45-70.It will not achieve the velocity that H4198 will,but it will give very good velocities and lower pressures.H4895 is very accurate in my 22" 1895 and I get 1791 fps with a Rem 405 jsp with a max load of it out of the Hodgdon manual.It would serve you well in both cartridges.

Leverluver · Post by **Leverluver** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 5:42 pm

I'm not a great lover of H4895 in the 45-70 but it works well at the upper end of the spectrum. Since it was never made to burn well at low pressures, it does not do near as well at the lower end. IOW, it is not a great "plinker" powder. It's one shining quality is that it is near "idiot proof" in the 45-70. It is virtually impossible to come up with a combination that will reach, let alone exceed, the top pressures that modern lever rifles are safe at.

I've used lots of 3031 over the years and it works well. For those that dwell on such things, 3031 is close to, if not the worst powder for temperature sensitivity. If you work up a load in the heat of summer, expect a significat loss at 70 degrees colder in the winter.

Of the three, H4198 allows both top end loads as well as working pretty darn good at the lower "plinking" end. Not much good in the 308 though.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 5:46 pm

I use IMR 4895 in most of my cartridges that are bottlenecked and are of medium capacity, such as the 257 Roberts, '06, or 308. 3031 burns a tad faster and is great for jacketed loads in many applications of well, almost the same cases. Contrary to others say, I like neither for cast bullets in anything as a faster powder is necessary for consistent ignition. Thats where 4198 comes in. Great for small capacity cases or larger straight wall cases with jacketed, and cast in most anything. I do draw the exception to all of these powders when it comes to the 45-70.

My hi velocity loads loads in the 45-70 gets put together with RL-7. It has near the burn rate of 4198 but has less pressure with comparable velocities. I have pushed 400 grain cast bullets at 2000+ fps in the 45-70 USING A BROWNING 1886. Everything looked fine. I do push 400 grain cast bullets out of original nickel steel 1886's at 1800. These loads are running 28000 psi and are completely safe. (1800 fps load)

In simple terms, if you want bone crushing velocity out of a 45-70, try RL-7. ------ IMR 3031 or IMR 4895 will work good for you as an all around powder with most cases using jacketed bullets, but I would choose 4895 because like you said, you can achieve the same velocities at less pressure.

I'm a 53 year old reloader and grew up with the IMR series. Lots of guys like the newer powders from Accurate Arms, Vitiviouri, or Hodgeons (sic). The way I see it, the IMR series has been working for reloaders for 80+? years and it seems like others want a piece of the action. I feel the same about pistol powders. Bullseye, Unique, and 2400 will do it all, with the exception of the big magnums like the 454 or 460 S&W.

I do 99% of my reloading with 4895, RL-7, Bullseye, Unique, 2400, and yes, AA 5744. (I'm holding back a bit on the 5744--current problems with it)---------------------Sixgun

RKrodle · Post by **RKrodle** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 6:22 pm

I use 4198 for both my 45-70 and 358 Win. It seems to work pretty good.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 6:32 pm

If there was such a thing as a one powder for everything 4895 would be pretty close to being it.

If you're going to reload the 308 and the 45-70 you'll do well to use 2 or more powders, rl 15 ,4985 and 748 in the 308 (and most of the other non belted 30 cals), 3031 in the 45-70 if you just can't bring yourself to use black powder.
4198 does work well in the 223, but I don't really like it in the larger rifle cartridges.

Old Time Hunter · Post by **Old Time Hunter** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 6:41 pm

I use H4198 on all straight cases from the .375 Win, the .405, the .444, and my .45-70. The only one that seems to be pushing high pressure on published loads is my .375 and if I want maximum velocity with a minimum of pressure I use AA1680.

My medium bottle necks get H4895....30-30, 7.62X54R, 8mm, .356 Win, .307 Win, .30-06, .308...on and on.

3031 is too temperature sensitive for my climate.

jdad · Post by **jdad** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 7:23 pm

My 300gr Laser Cast accuracy and silhouette loads were;

42gr 3031 = about 1500fps

47gr 3031 = about 1600fps

Mojo · Post by **Mojo** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 7:31 pm

H-4198 all the way in my .45-70's. I prefer it because of it's low sensitivity to temperature changes making it very consistent.

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 7:44 pm

4895 will give wide velocity readings at the lower end of the loads found in load manuals. Like varget it needs to be pushed a little before it shines. Varget is my favorite in the .45-70 with jacketed bullets.

Last weekend I fired some 150 gr. Speer bullets with H4895 in my .308MX and at book starting levels I was getting extreme spreads of 135 fps. Starting loads of Varget gave ES`s of 60. Both of these will settle down as pressures come up.

IMR 4198 is my favorite cast bullet powder and gives very good accuracy all the way down to 1500 fps or so in the .30-30 ,.308 Win. and the .308MX.

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:48 pm

4198 has been amazingly accurate, and amazingly consistent for me in the 45-70 winter or summer, and I get the extreme end of the spectrum. This is also regardless of whether it's loaded light or hot.

223 really likes 4895, and it is just under Varget for top velocities, but with significantly lower pressures.

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:54 pm

Reloder7 will do both the 308 and 45-70. I use it in the 358 Win and 45-70.

3031 will do you well because you will be loading your 1886 hot.

1886 · Post by **1886** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:06 pm

H-4895 is one of my favs. I agree with the almost idiot proof nature of this powder in straight walled cases. My .405 really likes H-4895. Remember "almost" idiot proof. Do not be foolish. 1886.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:22 pm

OK, in similar vein:

For my 1886, What single powder would be the best choice for .45 Colt-Level loads all the way up to whompum? i.e. is not position sensitive/density sensitive but will work well across velocities under a 330gr hp?

It sounds like 4189 might work there...

Anybody try shooting Varget light? All the loading data I have for it is near or over 100% density...

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:25 pm

Old Ironsights wrote:OK, in similar vein:

For my 1886, What single powder would be the best choice for .45 Colt-Level loads all the way up to whompum? i.e. is not position sensitive/density sensitive but will work well across velocities under a 330gr hp?

It sounds like 4189 might work there...

Anybody try shooting Varget light? All the loading data I have for it is near or over 100% density...

4198. I gauruntee you can load way past what your shoulder can take repeatedly. See user name.

I also have some general purpose loads that are extremely consistent and accurate.

86er · Post by **86er** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:34 pm

I appreciate the information provided!

I'm loading practice ammo only and probably anything from 1100fps -1600fps will work for me.

It seems 4198 would suit my needs in the 45-70, allowing me to load practice loads up to "hot" rounds. Temperature sensitivity needs to be considered since I hunt in the southwest, northeast, Africa, west coast, all year long.

I conclude that I should find a seperate suitable powder for the 308 instead of trying to streamline by using one powder for more than one cartridge.

If someone thinks I didn't get this right, please jump in and correct me.

Sarge · Post by **Sarge** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:39 pm

I have loaded all 3 powders in bottle-necks and H4895 has earned the title of "Go-To Rifle Powder" here. It's all I buy anymore but I don't load big straight-wall cases, either. If I did I could probably justify a dedicated powder for them, just as I do for pistol loads.

gary rice · Post by **gary rice** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:43 pm

86er wrote:Being a novice I don't know the difference in these powders. 4198 was recommended to me for 45-70. However, I see that 4895 can be loaded in 45-70 and 308 Win. Skimming through reloading manuals I see the pressure for H4895 seems to be constantly lower than similar velocity loads with 4198. Then again it seem 3031 could serve in 45-70 and 308 also. But 3031 requires more pressure to achieve the same velocity compared to 4895.

Logically, H4895 kills two birds with one stone for me. So could 3031.

Inexperience shines through here.

I am missing something that you experienced loaders might know? \\

86er, i love h-4895 so much in my 95 cowboy i now buy it in 8lb cans. i heard all the stories about it not burning powder well at low velocities but i havent had that problem in mine at all. just last week i checked velocity using 40 grains behind a 405 grain bullet and they averaged 1365 fps with little variation. i also load it up to higher end velocity (1800fps) behind the same bullet and it performs very well for me. some guys out at the range critique me for not using 4198 as you can get by on less powder charges but i dont care. it also meters better for me than 4198.

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:26 pm

OI, I have shot a lot of Varget in the 308 Win. with cast bullets. 28 -30gr. is a very accurate load under 160 to 200 gr. cast bullets.
If you look in the CBA`s magazine, The Fouling Shot ,you will find Varget is one of the popular powders for cast bullet competition. 30 gr is not quite a 75% load in the .308 win.
When I started using varget with reduced loads I looked to The Fouling Shot to see what others were using and at that time (5-8 years ago) it seemed that 75% of the .308 shooters were using Varget.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 9:05 am

Chuck 100 yd wrote:OI, I have shot a lot of Varget in the 308 Win. with cast bullets. 28 -30gr. is a very accurate load under 160 to 200 gr. cast bullets.
If you look in the CBA`s magazine, The Fouling Shot ,you will find Varget is one of the popular powders for cast bullet competition. 30 gr is not quite a 75% load in the .308 win.
When I started using varget with reduced loads I looked to The Fouling Shot to see what others were using and at that time (5-8 years ago) it seemed that 75% of the .308 shooters were using Varget.

Heh. I don't have a .308, just a .45-70... so that's what I'm loading it in until it's gone...

Then I'll likely buy an 8lb can of 4198...

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 8:50 pm

OK, really dumb question...

H4198 vs IMR4198?

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 8:51 pm

Old Ironsights wrote:OK, really dumb question...

H4198 vs IMR4198?

Heh heh. Same powder, same company, different label.

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:22 am

They confuse me with that H-IMR stuff. H4198, H4895, IMR4895, etc.

Is that a good thing to do with explosive material?

I guess they just don't want to alienate long-time customers by consolidating.

The guy at the reloading store swears the IMR4895 and H4895 are very different.

mad mucus · Post by **mad mucus** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:50 am

H4198 is rebottled Aussie powder ADI AR2207.
H4895 is rebottled Aussie powder ADI AR2206H
Varget is rebottled Aussie powder ADI AR2208

Don't know about the IMRs

Mucus

Dan 444 · Post by **Dan 444** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:52 am

In my Marlins I use H4895 in 219 Zipper, 30-30, 32 WS, 35Rem and 356 Win. In the straight-walled cases, I use H335 in 375 Win, 444 and 45-70. These work well for me. A number of years ago, I did make a concerted effort to "standardize" with using as few different powders as possible and these loads were the result. I shoot h/c lead in all of them and push them hard. A max load of H335 behind a BTB-425grainer in the 1895 (45-70) provides an impressive recoil....and muzzle flash!

Best,
Dan

Compare powders H4895 to H4198 and 3031

Compare powders H4895 to H4198 and 3031

Re: Compare powders H4895 to H4198 and 3031