SD handgun question: Why is it...update: choice made!

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Mon May 06, 2013 9:08 pm

I don't feel under-gunned with a 1911 (other than the "DUH, it's a .45!" argument

), am OK with a 5-6 shot .38 Special snub (+P rated mind you) but the thought of a single stack compact 9mm gives me pause?

In 30wcf's thread on the Olive Drab LCR we briefly discussed his S&W Shield. I'm interested in one as I simply can't IWB a G19 COMFORTABLY. I shoot the 19 reasonably well (despite the fact it's not a good fit for my hands) but 99 times out of a 100, the J Frame is on me instead of the 19.

So why don't I/we view a single stack 9mm that has the same capacity as a 1911 and 1-3 rounds more than a .38 snub as "not enough"? Or is it just me?

Today's loadings are nothing to sneeze at and there was an article and accompanying chart that tracked one shot stops and fatalities which showed there wasn't just a whole lot of difference between the major calibers (I need to find that article again).

If it sounds like I'm trying to convince myself, that's part of it.

Another part is just me getting my thoughts in order and yet another part is wanting to know who else out there is looking at these things the same way I do...

jdad · Post by **jdad** » Mon May 06, 2013 9:23 pm

I got rid of my Shield after the first range trip, with my XD-S. You can also get a 7 round mag, like the Shield, and it's just about the same size, but waaaaay more accurate......and it's a .45.

K1500 · Post by **K1500** » Mon May 06, 2013 9:31 pm

If you are O.K. With a 5 shot snub, a 7+1 shot 9mm of essentially equal power with faster reloads should be a an EASY decision. For that matter, if you are O.K. With a 7+1 or 8+1 1911 in .45, a 7+1 9mm should be just fine for you too. I have a Shield and love it.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Mon May 06, 2013 10:07 pm

Often I have my Llama Minimax with me.
I do not feel underprivleged.

ollogger · Post by **ollogger** » Mon May 06, 2013 10:13 pm

Have 3 that pack very easy, Glock 23 Gen. 4 - ruger LC9 - S&W 642
im likeing the Glock a little more but most of the time I carry the S&W, I feel its like a 30-30
its enuff gun, if I go any place at night I take the LC9, its got a lazer, ive shot that gun
when its to dark for me to see the sights but could see my gong, & fire away & get the report
back that its a dead gong, pretty neat deal for a old hick

ollogger

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Mon May 06, 2013 10:36 pm

I carry an LCP every day....Also have a .38 Special AirWeight, and a .22 AirLite....I love mouse guns....I also have 3 .45acp....I would not carry the big ones.....

OldWin · Post by **OldWin** » Tue May 07, 2013 12:05 am

I had your same feelings till a couple years ago. I carry a Colt LW Comander when I can but a good part of the year don't dress heavy enough to conceal it. For long as I can remember I have otherwise carried a 38 snubbie. A Smith 442 is still all my wife will carry. A few years ago I bought a Kel-Tec PF9 because of it's thin and small size but rarely carried it. After a lot of range time I have come to trust it and have committed to it for two years. I gave my snubbie to my dad. I use Hornady critical defense as carry ammo in both .38 and 9mm.

guido4198 · Post by **guido4198** » Tue May 07, 2013 4:06 am

For a long time, I was "old-school"..carrying a 45 Commander when I carried at all. Therein lies the issue. All my "full-size" awesomely powered "Carry guns" did little for me if they were left in the drawer at home.
With the "explosion" of concealed carry laws these days, I went out to get myself up-to-date.
I did a bunch or research, looked at all the new offerings available, and when I did, I decided that with the NEW AMMO offerings, I could live with a 9mm. For a carry gun: Kahr CM9.
For most of us, choosing a concealed carry piece, and caliber involves making some compromises. I'm compromising on some points because my Kahr is more likely to be ON ME at any given time than anything else I own.
Everyone has to decide for themselves.

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Tue May 07, 2013 6:58 am

My primary carry is a Nighthawk GRP 1911 in 45 acp. When not on my hip it's in my backpack over one shoulder. I went through the Kahr PM9, the Kimber solo, and some short 9's like the ppk/s and berreta. I have had plenty of the j-frames. Been a love hate relationship with most of them and I guess I'm just fickle because I can't really say why but have managed to find a problem with all of them. The PM9 was the best suited but I really didn't enjoy the range time with it and it didn't have night sights. The solo,was very accurate and had a laser and shot well, but was too heavy. The j-frames either poked me with the hammers, had fixed sights that would not shoot to point of aim, were double action only or we're only for 38's or .... Though I did like a three inch with adj sights for woods walking in .357. What I wound up with for deep carry was a sig 238 in .380 because of the 1911 controls and night sights. Reliability and shooting to point of aim with ammo of choice is essential for the deep carry pistol. I would not feel under gunned with a 22 if it met those criteria.

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Tue May 07, 2013 5:09 pm

K1500 wrote:If you are O.K. With a 5 shot snub, a 7+1 shot 9mm of essentially equal power with faster reloads should be a an EASY decision.

You'd think so, but my brain doesn't quite see it that way.

Perhaps it's my heart rather than my brain making the call...

guido4198 wrote: For most of us, choosing a concealed carry piece, and caliber involves making some compromises. I'm compromising on some points because my Kahr is more likely to be ON ME at any given time than anything else I own.

Very true. If I had my druthers, I'd have one of my Friendly Black Rifles (none of mine are evil

) on my person. Just because. Like OldWin, I have a 442 and it's on me unless I'm forced to go somewhere that won't allow CCW.

rjohns, I handled a 238 on my home today (they didn't have a Shield and didn't even have an ETA for one). LNIB, wood stocks, night sights, $600. Fair price? I liked the way it handled and felt but it would mean talking myself into a .380!

What are you running in yours?

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Tue May 07, 2013 5:14 pm

awp101 wrote:If I had my druthers, I'd have one of my Friendly Black Rifles (none of mine are evil ) on my person.

We think alike. I have often said if it wasn't so frowned upon I would carry an AR everywhere I went.

3leggedturtle · Post by **3leggedturtle** » Tue May 07, 2013 5:16 pm

awp101 wrote:
K1500 wrote:If you are O.K. With a 5 shot snub, a 7+1 shot 9mm of essentially equal power with faster reloads should be a an EASY decision.

You'd think so, but my brain doesn't quite see it that way.

Perhaps it's my heart rather than my brain making the call...

That's almost like asking, whats better, 5 16oz'ers or 8 12ozer's.

Is it Friday yet?

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Tue May 07, 2013 5:27 pm

sore shoulder wrote: We think alike. I have often said if it wasn't so frowned upon I would carry an AR everywhere I went.

AK or FAL for me.

3leggedturtle: It's only Tuesday...

tman · Post by **tman** » Tue May 07, 2013 6:10 pm

Love my 1911's. But my glock 27 with 9, 11, 13, and 22 shots is my 1st choice. The 40 S&W 180 gr. is close enough to a .45ACP. 185 not to matter.

retmech · Post by **retmech** » Tue May 07, 2013 9:34 pm

Have an LCP in my pocket all the time, don't even think about it. Much better than the 1911 home in the dresser drawer.

1894c · Post by **1894c** » Tue May 07, 2013 10:53 pm

Get the Shield in 9mm---the difference between 180gr. Gold-Dot HP .40S&W (our carry load) and 124gr. +P Gold-Dot 9mm (NYPD carry) load is 10lbs of energy, not a whole lot of difference...9mm has come a long way... :)

tman · Post by **tman** » Wed May 08, 2013 4:12 am

Kel-tec's PF-9, With the extended grip mag gives you 8+1, in a highly concealable package

alnitak · Post by **alnitak** » Wed May 08, 2013 9:07 am

My main carry is a PM9...seems the best "compromise" for me, though during the winter I do have other larger options, both in size and caliber.

M. M. Wright · Post by **M. M. Wright** » Wed May 08, 2013 9:21 am

If the ultimate need should arise I would prefer a 1911 type 45 and I often carry one with a 4" bbl. Like many have already said though, it's not apt to be on me especially in summer. I've carried a bunch of little guns and really like the old Remington if it's in .380, (not .32 auto). I got to carrying the Colt Detective Special many years ago and now have a Cobra. It's just like the Dick Special but with an aluminum frame. I bobbed the hammer and put a Tyler T grip adapter on it. Wears great on the ankle or in a pocket holster. I feed it 125 grain XTPs backed by mmm, some 2400. Almost never shoot it with these loads but practice with mid range loads. Colt made an Agent too that has even more aluminum in it. Anyway it's lighter still. The Cobra and Agent have gotten very pricy the last few years but my once pristine Cobra continues to be my favorite.

Someone said FAL or AK and I'll second the FAL because of the cartridge (.308). OK, I recently fell in like withe the FAL. Got to have one.

86er · Post by **86er** » Wed May 08, 2013 9:35 am

I have only fired the Shield 9mm a few hundred rounds one day. Nothing wrong with it overall but I will caution you on one issue. It has a manual safety. Unless you are highly trained and practice periodically the safety can be a real problem in a high stress situation. There is a school of thought that says just carry it without the safety engaged. Well that's great but what if it inadvertently ends up "on" when you did not expect it to be "on". If you choose to utilize it and practice with it you then have to consider it is pretty small and some people find they can accidentally put it "on" during firing. For a striker fired pistol I just don't think you need that manual safety and consider it could be a detriment under extreme stress. If the safety doesnt bother you there is another issue that has extremely low odds of occuring. If you have a round blow out, take a shot to the grip, or slam the grip - and the backstrap comes off the gun is rendered useless as it won't hold the magazine. Some other guns with backstraps stil have a solid grip handle to house the mag (Glock G4, SA XDs) and others have other backstrap nuianses (PPS has integral safety that depends on backstrap being installed). My wife carries a 9mm but recently shot the XDs with CCI 230 Gr Gold Dot. She said it had less jump and she could shoot it better - and now wants one. FWIW the XDs is out in 9mm and will hit stores in late June - mid July timeframe. There are a bunch of "sub-compact" 9mm's in the 1911 style too that would conceal well and be very light and comfortable. STI Shadow comes to mind, SA EMP, Sig 938.

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Wed May 08, 2013 9:38 pm

Thanks Joe! My preferred local pusher has a 938 that I'm going to try and see tomorrow. I had no idea they existed. I can say that I'm not enthused over the reviews I'm reading on them though. Lots of little problems but it's hard to sort the wheat from the chaff through a computer screen.

Unless I'm at work or at church, my attire is jeans and a t shirt when it's cold or cargo shorts and a t shirt when it's hot. The 442 barely works in the jeans (pocket holster) and does fine in the cargo shorts. Neither the 442 nor the 19 do well IWB under a t shirt with my frame. It looks like my love handles have a growth...

1894c · Post by **1894c** » Wed May 08, 2013 11:51 pm

86er wrote:I have only fired the Shield 9mm a few hundred rounds one day. Nothing wrong with it overall but I will caution you on one issue. It has a manual safety. Unless you are highly trained and practice periodically the safety can be a real problem in a high stress situation. There is a school of thought that says just carry it without the safety engaged. Well that's great but what if it inadvertently ends up "on" when you did not expect it to be "on". If you choose to utilize it and practice with it you then have to consider it is pretty small and some people find they can accidentally put it "on" during firing. For a striker fired pistol I just don't think you need that manual safety and consider it could be a detriment under extreme stress. If the safety doesnt bother you there is another issue that has extremely low odds of occuring. If you have a round blow out, take a shot to the grip, or slam the grip - and the backstrap comes off the gun is rendered useless as it won't hold the magazine. Some other guns with backstraps stil have a solid grip handle to house the mag (Glock G4, SA XDs) and others have other backstrap nuianses (PPS has integral safety that depends on backstrap being installed). My wife carries a 9mm but recently shot the XDs with CCI 230 Gr Gold Dot. She said it had less jump and she could shoot it better - and now wants one. FWIW the XDs is out in 9mm and will hit stores in late June - mid July timeframe. There are a bunch of "sub-compact" 9mm's in the 1911 style too that would conceal well and be very light and comfortable. STI Shadow comes to mind, SA EMP, Sig 938.

86er -- that's a good comment about the Shield's manual safety, and something that I have been thinking about too...in the end i'm leaning more to revolver for pocket carry... :)

guido4198 · Post by **guido4198** » Thu May 09, 2013 4:52 am

30wcf wrote:Get the Shield in 9mm---the difference between 180gr. Gold-Dot HP .40S&W (our carry load) and 124gr. +P Gold-Dot 9mm (NYPD carry) load is 10lbs of energy, not a whole lot of difference...9mm has come a long way...

Like he said...9mm ammo offerings are MUCH improved these days from what they were 25 or 30 yrs ago.
That improvement allows me to feel more comfortable leaving my .45acp Government Model at home, and dropping the CM9 in my waistband whenever I go out.

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Fri May 10, 2013 5:44 pm

OK, I didn't get a chance to hit the preferred pusher yesterday. Probably Monday at the earliest. So here's a couple of questions:

Can the 238 be carried IWB? I've only handled 1-2 and they feel more like a pocket rocket rather than a IWB carry piece.

If the Shield is holstered, how possible/probable is the safety to engage?

I didn't mean for this to turn into a "what pistol should I look at" thread but what the heck!

I've derailed plenty of threads in my time so it only seems fair...

I've heard/read the Kel-Tecs were designed to be carried a bunch and shot enough to be proficient but can wear pretty fast if shot a lot. True? False? Do the Kahr's fall into that category as well?

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Fri May 10, 2013 6:30 pm

I'm running silver tips for protection and ball ammo for practice in my 238. $600 is about right. I like mine a lot. Mine came with a keys ex holster, I bought two others, a pocket protector holster and an IWB holster. I use all three.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Fri May 10, 2013 6:37 pm

YK used to have a picture of my Star .380 and my folder for Phoenix hot weather carry.

Found it!

For me, my perferred carry weapon is a Para-Ordnance P12.45. Heat of the summer, when only shorts and a t-shirt are comfortable (and barely that), I'll opt for a Davis Derringer in .38 Special.

Lastmohecken · Post by **Lastmohecken** » Sat May 11, 2013 12:28 am

I have carried about everything from a NAA 22 mag (tiny five shot revolver) to a 4 inch Model 29 and everything in between. I have carried a lightweight commander probably the most when it comes to a full sized gun, and sometimes a .380 auto, usually a Colt Pocket Light semi auto, but have carried the little Keltec 32 and the Ruger LCR .380. Have a Glock 26 9mm compact that is a fine gun. And for a car gun I like a Glock 22 (40 cal)

But frankly, I think one of the best all time, get you out of a jam CCW guns, is a 2 inch snub of either the 5 shot Smith and Wesson fame or a 6 shot model 65 or maybe a Colt D frame in an inside the pants holster, although the little 5 shot Smiths can be carried a lot of different ways. Because if you really need it, you need it very fast and it needs to be very very reliable, even when jammed into someone's ribs in a Extreme Close Range Encounter, because that's very likely the situation you would be called to actually need a CCW gun for. In the right holster nothing is faster or more positive or simple to shoot, and it doesn't matter if you get a good grip on the gun, limp wrist it, jam the barrel into someone's belly in a down and dirty scuffle, etc. There's also little risk of anything going wrong with the gun that will make it fail to fire. No magazines to fall out, etc. No feed jams, and plus P 38 special will do a much better job then most any of the small autos.

And the little 2 inch barreled snub is a pretty hard gun to take away from a person, too. The only down sides are limited ammo capacity, slow reloading, and they are a little hard to shoot without some practice, but the average self defense shooting does not require a reload ( suggest another small backup gun, New York reload instead) anyway. And Recoil of plus P's are a little stout in the really lightweight titianiums, but not bad in an all steel gun with decent grips. My favorite is my Smith and Wesson model 65, 2 inch snub carried in a Milt Sparks Summer Special inside the pants holster.

With that set up, I feel like I could get attacked, knocked down, etc and as long as I am not completely incapacitated, there is a darned good chance I will be able to get a shot off in 1 second or 2 at the most. If you really need a gun it will probably be very close range and over pretty quick.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Sat May 11, 2013 2:29 am

You can only be "under gunned" if you don't have a gun.

I variously carry an NAA Guardian .32ACP, a cheap .22 semi-auto, an SP101 in .357 a 1911 or a Rem 1858.

GENERALLY it's the .32 or the .357 SP101.

I never really feel "undergunned" because I practice stressfire/OODA Loop drills.

Two hits with a .22/.32 beat 17 misses with a 9mm...

Still, if I had the money to have my way, I'd carry a CCO/Clone over any of the above except in the field - where I prefer Wheel Guns.

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Sun May 12, 2013 9:19 am

Handled a Beretta Nano yesterday. A bit of a strange bird. No manual safety (no biggie to me) and no slide lock/release. Can't lock the slide back unless an empty mag is in place and you can't release the slide unless you drop the empty mag or use a loaded one. Can't say it left me with anything more than a lukewarm indifference to it. If it fit my hand better, it might have been a different story.

Same shop also has a no-lock S&W 640-1 .357. Tempting, very tempting, but won't pocket carry as easy as the 442 and makes a bigger bulge on the hip. Still going to think about that one just to have though.

rjohns94 wrote:I'm running silver tips for protection and ball ammo for practice in my 238.

Cool, thanks!

gak · Post by **gak** » Sun May 12, 2013 10:24 am

awp101 wrote:.

So why don't I/we view a single stack 9mm that has the same capacity as a 1911 and 1-3 rounds more than a .38 snub as "not enough"? Or is it just me?

I think it might be playing a psychological game in your mind - the knowledge that double stack compact examples have been out there now for awhile that seem (or we convince ourselves) are not that much bulkier. It's the ol' "I coulda had. V8" for not much sacrifice, or that much difference in configuration. At least that's what we tell ourselves! That, and a lot of us former non-believers have convinced ourselves over time that 9mm is finally a "legitimate" round - but its only been with the advent of the new hi cap polymers - when we've got 17 of the little buggers double stacked up! Don't get me wrong - to me there's no question s to the 9mm's potential lethality, just talking perceptions here along the lines of the OP's question.

jdad · Post by **jdad** » Sun May 12, 2013 10:45 am

awp101 wrote:b
Same shop also has a no-lock S&W 640-1 .357. Tempting, very tempting, but won't pocket carry as easy as the 442 and makes a bigger bulge on the hip. Still going to think about that one just to have though.

Cool, thanks!

My first carry gun was 640. I got tired of my pants being pulled down by the weight

, so I traded it for a 642.

jmortimer · Post by **jmortimer** » Sun May 12, 2013 3:13 pm

I'd look at a Ruger LC9.

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Sun May 12, 2013 4:54 pm

jmortimer wrote:I'd look at a Ruger LC9.

Did they ever resolve the problems they had with the initial production run(s)? I didn't follow the LC9 real close because of what I read for the first year or so after they came out and started having recalls on them.

This is the article and chart I was referring to in the first post: http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7866 Well worth a read IMO.

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Tue May 14, 2013 9:17 pm

Finally got a chance to hit my tame FFL. No Shield (not even an ETA) but a Beretta Nano, M&Pc, SIG 238, 290 and 938 were all in the case and of the most interest to me.

Looked at the Nano again, still wasn't impressed. The M&Pc is actually wider than the G19. The 290 was DAO which I can handle in a revolver, but I can't stand in a semi-auto and the grip felt too long front to back. The 238 wasn't bad feeling and they had .380 on the shelf for a not-quite-outrageous-price ($30 for what I think was Speer Lawman). At least it wasn't outrageous to me since I remember when it was going (actually selling) for $75+/box at the shows during the last panic.

Then I tried the 938.

Now I'm not going to say a light shone 'round me and a Heavenly Chorus started singing in the background but it was certainly the best fit of any of the small semis I've tried. And having the same manual of arms as a 1911 is a plus for me. 6+1 capacity with the flush fit mag is 2 more than I have with the 442 and once they're back in stock I'll check out the 7rd extended mag.

In the end I swapped my G19 for store credit which I then applied as the down payment for the layawake program. If I hadn't committed to another project recently, there would have been enough in the fun fund for the difference but that's OK. She Who Puts Up With Me will want to know what I want for Father's Day anyway...

So once I get it in my grubby mitts, I'll pick up a few boxes (OK, maybe a couple) of ball and head to the range for a break in session then see how it fares with my preferred load of Gold Dots.

Guys, thanks for talking me through this. There's some compromises in this choice but as the saying goes: it's the one you have on you, not the "prefect" one you left at home for whatever reason. Ok, maybe I butchered the phrase, but you get the idea....

BTW, there may be some G19 mags in the Classifieds in the next few days.

retmech · Post by **retmech** » Wed May 15, 2013 8:00 pm

[quote]I've heard/read the Kel-Tecs were designed to be carried a bunch and shot enough to be proficient but can wear pretty fast if shot a lot. True? False? /quote]

I know you made your decision but this might help others. My Keltec .380 went 1400 jam free, trouble free rounds and I noticed a small crack on the top of the slide. I called KT and they said send us the top end and we'll send you a new one. Installed the new slide and barrel and 500 rds later the retainer spring for the cross pin that holds the barrel broke, KT sent me a new one in about 3 days. A couple hundred rounds later the trigger failed and I sent the gun to KT for the repair and I'm waiting for it now. KT certainly stands behind their warranty and the gun was reliable. Most of the people I know will never put 1400 rds through a little carry piece like that so how long they last could be a moot point. I am currently carrying an LCP that a friend sold me, have put about 400 through it to date with no trouble.

1894c · Post by **1894c** » Thu May 16, 2013 1:02 pm

Old Ironsights wrote:
I never really feel "undergunned" because I practice stressfire/OODA Loop drills.

OODA LOOP...see attached... :)

HI-JACK ALERT: I now have three RUGER LCR's, one in .38spl. +P and two in .357mag...this is where I ended up for pocket carry...i also have over 700 rnds of Speer Gold-Dot 135gr. +P on hand...

awp101 -- I like your choice, I like it allot...got me thinking too... :O

LCR-357.jpg

OODA.Loop.Boyd.png

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Thu May 16, 2013 9:31 pm

How brisk is the recoil in those featherweight .357s?

I really wanted to try a Shield first but no one around here has them, no idea when they will get one and I'm not going to stand in line for a hour or more at one of the local shows to see if I can get my hands on one just to try. Once things settle down, if I find one and like it better I figure I won't get hurt on the Sig too bad at all.

1894c · Post by **1894c** » Thu May 16, 2013 11:01 pm

awp101 wrote:How brisk is the recoil in those featherweight .357s? :mrgreen:

I really wanted to try a Shield first but no one around here has them, no idea when they will get one and I'm not going to stand in line for a hour or more at one of the local shows to see if I can get my hands on one just to try. Once things settle down, if I find one and like it better I figure I won't get hurt on the Sig too bad at all.

BRISK is a good choice in words...won't shoot 50 rnds of .357 in a sittimg, but have shot 20 to get familiar...I like the LCR-357 because it's heavier and handles +P .38's really well...17.4 ozs seems about right in weight for a pocket gun, although I've gone heavier...

awp101 -- don't second guess yourself on your choice of the SIG-938, seen them, they're a good choice(actually i'm interested to see how you like it), plus you already have the motor-skills with your 1911 experience...the safety on the M&P Shield is small, and I no longer will carry a striker-fired auto in my pocket (even with a pocket holster)--by the way I sold the Shield and bought my 2nd LCR-357... :)

gcburt · Post by **gcburt** » Thu May 16, 2013 11:42 pm

My current carry gun is the Kahr PM9. I carry in big pockets in a Remora holster and in my dress slacks in an IWB Old Faithfull holster.

I recently sold two full size Ruger's (P-89 & P-95) and my Sig P938 and purchased two full sized 9mm's so I would have the same manual of arms as my Kahr. I got a 4.5 inch XDM and a S&W M&P. I'm also thinking about an XDM Compact for a mid-size carry weapon.

Of the three I sold I liked the little P938 - snappy - but I liked to carry the PM9 better.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Thu May 16, 2013 11:58 pm

awp101 wrote:How brisk is the recoil in those featherweight .357s?

I really wanted to try a Shield first but no one around here has them, no idea when they will get one and I'm not going to stand in line for a hour or more at one of the local shows to see if I can get my hands on one just to try. Once things settle down, if I find one and like it better I figure I won't get hurt on the Sig too bad at all.

I may be a/the statistical outlier here, but I carry/shoot more 180gr bullets out of my SP101 than anything else.

In fact, I strongly prefer the recoil profile of the factory 180gr SJHP over ANY commercial 156 or lighter bullet.

Simply, my followups are faster and closer @ poi that with lighter "sd" loads... and I found this to be true with 40sw out of a G27 as well.

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Fri May 17, 2013 12:09 am

If you like the Kahr P9.....you'll love the Shield.

The safety 'can' be accidentally activated, but you'd have to work at it. Also, the Shield is the only M&P that doesn't have interchangeable backstraps. It would have gotten thicker if they did so, which would have defeated the point of making it a single stack.

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Tue May 21, 2013 7:21 pm

30wcf wrote: awp101 -- don't second guess yourself on your choice of the SIG-938, seen them, they're a good choice(actually i'm interested to see how you like it), plus you already have the motor-skills with your 1911 experience...the safety on the M&P Shield is small, and I no longer will carry a striker-fired auto in my pocket (even with a pocket holster)--by the way I sold the Shield and bought my 2nd LCR-357...

Kind of hard to second guess what I don't have yet, just prudent planning.

The only quibbles in the back of my mind are:
only comes with one mag - I'd rather they ditch the Kydex OWB holster that comes with it and add a second mag. Especially when mags are back ordered and spendy (I'm hearing $50+ IF you can find them

)

I'll have to consciously remember if I'm carrying a DAO .38 or a SA/DA 9mm but that should mostly be dealt with through practice and training

Once it's actually here I'll try and remember to do a side by side photo, weight, etc comparison with the 442.

rangerider7 · Post by **rangerider7** » Tue May 21, 2013 10:58 pm

I started out carrying a 1911 45 but as time went on I switched to a DS Colt snub 38 (weight). I'm back to a 1911 these days. Times are a changing. RR7