Comparing "felt recoil"--.458 Win. mag vs. 45-70

[getitdone1]

How would some of you who have both a Winchester 458 mag and 45-70 gun compare their recoil?

Assuming 458 mag with recoil pad and 45-70 with steel butt plate--like my Browning 1886 SRC--and hot 4-500 gr loads in 45-70.

I'll bet my much lighter (typically) Browning has more felt recoil than the average 458 mag bolt gun with scope and recoil pad.

I've never shot a 458 mag but hear it kicks considerably more than a 375 H&H mag.

Don McCullough

[Jarhead]

How would some of you who have both a Winchester 458 mag and 45-70 gun compare their recoil?

Assuming 458 mag with recoil pad and 45-70 with steel butt plate--like my Browning 1886 SRC--and hot 4-500 gr loads in 45-70.

I'll bet my much lighter (typically) Browning has more felt recoil than the average 458 mag bolt gun with scope and recoil pad.

I've never shot a 458 mag but hear it kicks considerably more than a 375 H&H mag.

Don McCullough

I had a .458 Browning FN, 375 H&H Wintworth, .338 Model 70, and currenty have an 1895GS 45-70 /457 WW Mag...I couldn't tell a lot of difference.....depends on the stock design....yes, the .458 kicks a little more than a .375H&H....The 457WW mag Marlin is very close to the .458, yet it's in a lever....and I love mine! 350gr Alaska Bonded Bullet pushing 2200 FPS....400gr pushing 2000fps...great for Dangerous Game, but also works well on deer with minimal meat damage...punches a clean hole and drops them on the spot. A 45-70 with steel butt plate-hot loads- is probably very close to the recoil felt in a .458 Browning bolt action with a decelerator recoil pad.

[buckeyeshooter]

I have a Marlin Cowboy 45/70 and a 1st year 1895 45/70 standard rifle along with a Ruger 77 .458WM and a Winchester 70 in 470 Capstick.
With the 45/70's I can fire 20 rounds of 405's at 2000fps with little discomfort. 20 rounds of 458 WM shooting 500grains at 2150fps leaves me with a bruise and a shoulder that is stiff and sore for 3 days.
In the .470 Capstick shooting a 600 grain bullet at 2150 or a 500 grain bullet at 2300, 10 rounds provides the bruise and discomfort that I get from 20 rounds of 458.
I have a new Winchester 45/70 deluxe takedown 1886 -- but it is a safe queen. I would expect little difference between it and a marlin in recoil.

[Nazgul]

I have a 458WM Mod 70, and 2 4570 levers. The 458 with full power loads is a handfull. I would say the perceived recoil is less with the Mod 70 than with the levers just because of the design. The Browning 1886 4570 is easier than the marlin LTDV, probably due to the weight difference, but both are less pleasant than the 458 with heavier loads.

This is all just perceived recoil, I have big hands and almost any lever will rap them good with heavy rounds.

[Rod WMG]

This isn't the first place I've said this at various times, but....

My CZ .375 H&H (with the old style humback stock) has been fired only with Federal "High Energy" ammo. Ten rounds at a time is all I could manage. Came away with a bad headache.

I keep hearing how the .375 doesn't recoil. Mine, with that ammo is the worst I've ever tried. Maybe it's the stock design, I don't know.

[86er]

My experience differs from the others somewhat. The two 458's, both bolt action each weighs at least 2 pounds more than my 1886 extra light and kick less with 400 grain bullets loaded at the same velocity in each gun. I think it is the weight and longer barrel of the 458's that make them kick less.

[Jarhead]

This isn't the first place I've said this at various times, but....

My CZ .375 H&H (with the old style humback stock) has been fired only with Federal "High Energy" ammo. Ten rounds at a time is all I could manage. Came away with a bad headache.

I keep hearing how the .375 doesn't recoil. Mine, with that ammo is the worst I've ever tried. Maybe it's the stock design, I don't know.

Rod,

The stock design makes a big difference. In my opinion, the Pre-64 Model 70 is the one that works the best, however, my 375 H&H Wintworth with 300GR Trophy Bonded @ 2600fps was not too bad. Similar stock design....Wheatherby's and Sako's...ouch! That being said, .338 and above are not really good weapons to do bench rest shooting with I always cheated a little and would put a recoil pad behind my jacket if shooting a box of 20....try it. I think you'll agree. When you're hunting it usually takes one shot and you never think of the recoil. You're too busy concentrating on the game at hand....

[Rod WMG]

Hi, jarhead, I bought a PAST "strap on" recoil pad just to help out with the jolt. I still got the headache, though.

[getitdone1]

Several years ago I had a model 71 Winchester rebarreled to 45-70 and also a Sako Mannlicher Carbine in 375 H&H mag. Factory 270's with 375 and hot handloads with 45-70.

Shot about 6 of each from the bench. Driving home and felt like I'd been in the ring with a professional boxer. Shoulder turned dark blue but no other problem.

Edit: Oh, forgot--yes, I was leaning into the guns at the bench. Setting straight up with the kickers is one of the good things I've learned from this group !

Some times things are fun and not fun at the same time !

Don McCullough

[Old Savage]

The .458 hits a lot harder and will challenge the tolerance of most of the 30-06 crowd. That is with 458 loads not down loads. Put the two in a recoil calculator and you will see a clear difference more powder, more velocity, more bullet weight.

[Jarhead]

Hi, jarhead, I bought a PAST "strap on" recoil pad just to help out with the jolt. I still got the headache, though.

I use a pad cut out of very dense foam rubber ...1 inch thick...I place it behind my jacket. That past "strap on" is too thin my friend. I would shoot 20 rounds through the .458 and 20 rounds through the .375H&H and my pad eliminated the yellow bruise

Like I said, sight it in for hunting and use something else for bench shooting. I love my M14 7.62 Nato for bench shootin' Ammo is cheap...gas recoil...and you can shoot 1000s' of rounds without any problems. Stock design and the weight of the weapon are a big factor in recoil.

I don't bench shoot my 1895GS....I use it as a hunting tool. And recoil is not an issue. I shot a Grizzly with a .338 Model 70(pre-64) and the scope came back and busted me in the bridge of my nose. I was bleeding and thought I was sweating until my buddy pointed it out to me...I didn't even think about the recoil..too busy concentrating on killing the bear.

I feel your pain Brother! Just regroup and take it from another angle. "adapt, improvise, and overcome"

[Rod WMG]

jarhead, I haven't ever shot the .375 CZ from the bench. I shot it "standing on my hind legs like a man" and it recoiled so bad, I wasn't about to bench it!

[Jarhead]

jarhead, I haven't ever shot the .375 CZ from the bench. I shot it "standing on my hind legs like a man" and it recoiled so bad, I wasn't about to bench it!

Holy smoke Rod!

What does the CZ weigh? That just don't sound right. I am 5' 11'' and weigh 180..., but I was shooting a .375 Wintworth that weighed probably 9-10 lbs. Keep in mind that a .458 is a straight wall case and has more of a push ...like a shotgun. The shouldered cases really snap back hard! Like a Weatherby 300H&H with thier stock design...I'd rather shoot a .375 H&H..Pre-64 model 70 or a Wintworth....My Browning FN .458 was rather light, but the Classic stock design made it a sweet shooter.

Rod, sounds to me like it's the Stock design and believe me, it can make a big difference.

[Bigahh]

You guys are scaring me! I like my little 30-30!

[Jarhead]

You guys are scaring me! I like my little 30-30!

Ah, Come on Bigahh, It only leaves a bruise for a few days.

[getitdone1]

You guys are scaring me! I like my little 30-30!

Bigahh,

Your comment's a good one ! For most people most of the time the 30-30 is hard to beat--within range, of course.

Like your rough-tough baby picture too.

Seeing how much recoil you can take--or learn to take--can be both fun and painful. Bruises are one thing but permanent damage--if it gets to that--will have me kissing the hard kickers goodbye for good.

Don McCullough

[Jarhead]

You guys are scaring me! I like my little 30-30!

Bigahh,

Your comment's a good one ! For most people most of the time the 30-30 is hard to beat--within range, of course.

Like your rough-tough baby picture too.

Seeing how much recoil you can take--or learn to take--can be both fun and painful. Bruises are one thing but permanent damage--if it gets to that--will have me kissing the hard kickers goodbye for good.

Don McCullough

Gentlemen,

30-30 is a wonderful rifle I have killed 2 very nice Mule Deer with a 30-30. The 375s and 458s are not meant for bench shooting. I sight mine in and use my .243, 308, 06, 348, etc for the bench. I lived in Alaska, so packed a big bore .458 for bear protection. Not everybody needs a .375 or a .458...unless they are hunting dangerous critters. Shoot what you feel most comfortable with on the bench... And enjoy the experience.

[Rod WMG]

jarhead, the exact weight of the CZ escapes me now, but it is in the vicinity of nine pounds, I think. It'll be a little more if I ever get around to mounting the Leupold variable on it.

I need to load some ammo to the trditional velocity for this gun and try it. But my health has been so bad the last few years I have done little or no shooting and have done zero reloading for a few years though I have components everywhere.

I'm 5'9" and weighed about 235 at the time; I've since lost about 20 pounds due to illness. I've noticed that smaller people often handle recoil better. I think it's because they offer less resistance than someone heavier.

At least I'm not like an internet pal of mine who thinks the 9mm with an artillery Luger with a shoulder stock is brutal. I was so intrigued with his remark about that I'd like to shoot his pistol/ammo to see what's going on.

[Old Savage]

I watched an old guy sight in his 458 from the bench. He was about 5'8" and maybe 160 lb. He turned almost sideways to the rifle. His shoulder was behind his body mass so it just pushed him. I notice big guys often set themselves up to stop the gun thereby absorbing the full benefit of the recoil. I think the figures in ft lbs. for the two cartridges are something on the order of 45 and 68 for a 375 and 458. Bullet wieght makes a real difference. I have shot both 400 and 500 in the 458.