Marlin 36 chambered for .300 Savage?

[Ray Newman]

Gents: while going thru Elmer Keith’s “Keith’s Rifle’s for large game” (2001 reprint, Palladium Press), I read the following:

“Weaver 330 scope, Stith mounts, on Marlin Model 36, a rifle now chambered for the .300 Savage cartridge.”

Now that made me sit up and take notice! I never thought that the Model 36 could take the pressure.

Does anyone have any Marlin reference books to check this out? I would appreciate it.

[harry]

Gents: while going thru Elmer Keith’s “Keith’s Rifle’s for large game” (2001 reprint, Palladium Press), I read the following:

“Weaver 330 scope, Stith mounts, on Marlin Model 36, a rifle now chambered for the .300 Savage cartridge.”

Now that made me sit up and take notice! I never thought that the Model 36 could take the pressure.

Does anyone have any Marlin reference books to check this out? I would appreciate it.

Bethlehem Steel went out of business when Elmer quit shooting, they couldn't find enough scrap steel.

[Hobie]

I think that was an announced release that didn't happen.

[Buck Elliott]

I could better believe the .303 Savage... Maybe..

[Old Savage]

Elmer blew some guns up - not exactly Mr. Milquetoast in gun experimentation.

[earlmck]

300 Savage in a Marlin lever? Now that is an interesting thought. Just barely longer than a 30/30, and the Marlin feeds the 35 Remington so smoothly it shouldn't be a big job to get the 300 Savage feeding nicely. I can see why Elmer might have been tempted to give it a go.

And for a short time Marlin chambered their model 336 for the 375 Win which operates at higher pressures than the 300 Savage. Do we know if that chambering caused any problems in the Marlin?

I had never even had the thought until this thread about the 300 Savage and the pressures thereof.

[3leggedturtle]

Earl, When I was googling the 250 Savage, I came across an auction house That had a Marlin lever chambered for 250-3000. Said it was 1 of 2 factory produced examples that was s'posed to go into production but was killed for various reasons. Surewas pretty in its factory presentation wood case.

[BenT]

I read an article a few years ago about the 336 being chambered in 250 savage. From the article it said bolt thrust would lockup the action from time to time and Marlin gave up on the idea.

[hfcable]

considering pressures, recently [ for me that means within the last 20-30 years ], marlin made the 336 in 356 winchester also. i have one, still new in the box, gonna try it when the weather warms up.

[earlmck]

The 300 Savage and the 356 Win operate at essentially the same pressure level, would be about the same bolt thrust. Be interesting to hear your report, cable. Seems like Marlin would have done quite a bit of shooting with the hotter cartridge before deciding to try marketing it.

I know I have on occasion loaded 30/30 to somewhat above SAAMI spec and just told myself "heck, they chambered this thing in 375 Win so the action must be OK for some more pressure". And no, I didn't achieve any noteworthy ballistic breakthroughs but also didn't damage my Marlin. And nowdays I can get the same ballistics using hodgdon's LVR powder without straining the pressure limits, so the 170 grain Hornady at 2400 fps out of the 30/30 may get used for next years cow elk hunting. And that 170/2400 doesn't give up a whole lot to the 300 Savage, ballistically (well, say 180/2450 for the Savage).

Fellow levergunner Buck Elliott has seen the Marlin 336 loaded to destruction. Where do you figure the limits should be, Buck? Was Marlin going out on a limb chambering for the 375 Win at 60K psi? Should 356 Win (or 300 Savage) at 52K psi be OK?

[Buck Elliott]

The .375 Win is a 52,000 c.u.p. cartridge, whatever that may translate into in psi.. The Hodgdon manuals don't list any loads over 50,OOO cup for that cartridge..

Bolt thrust in the .375, at that pressure is much less than in the .454 Casull, or .500 S&W, loaded to 65,000 psi.

The boys at Big Horn Armory discovered the same things I experienced with the .454, when they tested an 1895 Marlin, with the big .500.. Locking lug was hammered and distorted; receiver sidewalls bulged outward, bolt was severely battered, and the gun became unsafe/unusable after just a few rounds fired..

Another possible determining factor for not including most of the cartridges mentioned above could be that they were regularly loaded with spitzer or semi-spitzer bullets. Marlin may have been overly-cautious about safety concerns, regarding the tubular magazines of their leverguns..

I was disappointed by the lack of factory support for the .375, and moreso regarding the .307 and .356, which I think are superior to the .375 in a lever-action.. Bullet selection may have spelled doom for all three rounds...

[hfcable]

The .375 Win is a 52,000 c.u.p. cartridge, whatever that may translate into in psi.. The Hodgdon manuals don't list any loads over 50,OOO cup for that cartridge..

Bolt thrust in the .375, at that pressure is much less than in the .454 Casull, or .500 S&W, loaded to 65,000 psi.

The boys at Big Horn Armory discovered the same things I experienced with the .454, when they tested an 1895 Marlin, with the big .500.. Locking lug was hammered and distorted; receiver sidewalls bulged outward, bolt was severely battered, and the gun became unsafe/unusable after just a few rounds fired..

Another possible determining factor for not including most of the cartridges mentioned above could be that they were regularly loaded with spitzer or semi-spitzer bullets. Marlin may have been overly-cautious about safety concerns, regarding the tubular magazines of their leverguns..

I was disappointed by the lack of factory support for the .375, and moreso regarding the .307 and .356, which I think are superior to the .375 in a lever-action.. Bullet selection may have spelled doom for all three rounds...

why the heck winchester did not make the 375 based on a 308/307/444 sized type case i cannot fathom! that would have been a heck of a cartridge, maybe better than the 307 or the 356.

[Mescalero]

A couple of years ago, I listed a ranch rifle ( lived on a working ranch in N.M. ) Marlin in 375 Win. in the classifieds here.
It generated NO interest.
I have since come across some interesting pieces but have said nothing.
Saying I am sorry to that old rancher, cured me of trying to be a middleman.

[airedaleman]

Jim Carmichael took out a prototype 336 in 250-3000. Gun had a spiral-fluted magazine tube similar to that used on Remington 14's and 141's.
This gun or another prototype has been offered for sale by one of the big auction houses...

[3leggedturtle]

A couple of years ago, I listed a ranch rifle ( lived on a working ranch in N.M. ) Marlin in 375 Win. in the classifieds here.
It generated NO interest.
I have since come across some interesting pieces but have said nothing.
Saying I am sorry to that old rancher, cured me of trying to be a middleman.

I missed that for some reason. When I did notice it was spoken for.

BenT; I tried finding it but couldn't. Glad you saw the same thing.

[AJMD429]

A couple of years ago, I listed a ranch rifle ( lived on a working ranch in N.M. ) Marlin in 375 Win. in the classifieds here.
It generated NO interest.
I have since come across some interesting pieces but have said nothing.
Saying I am sorry to that old rancher, cured me of trying to be a middleman.

lf l had the money at the time l would have spoken up and bought it!

[bgmkithaca]

why the heck winchester did not make the 375 based on a 308/307/444 sized type case i cannot fathom! that would have been a heck of a cartridge, maybe better than the 307 or the 356.[/quote]

I have a 336 built on the 356 necked up to 375 and can say that it is more fun than I can stand loaded clear up to potential.
Another thing is that Hornady 220 gr. flatpoints are a bit tender at top velocity-slowed it down a couple of hundred fps and works well even on close shots.If it was going to be ran at top velocity a custom bullet would be needed.

[hfcable]

why the heck winchester did not make the 375 based on a 308/307/444 sized type case i cannot fathom! that would have been a heck of a cartridge, maybe better than the 307 or the 356.

I have a 336 built on the 356 necked up to 375 and can say that it is more fun than I can stand loaded clear up to potential.
Another thing is that Hornady 220 gr. flatpoints are a bit tender at top velocity-slowed it down a couple of hundred fps and works well even on close shots.If it was going to be ran at top velocity a custom bullet would be needed.[/quote]

I had heard of such, but you are the only one i have heard from directly. with a custom bullet that would handle anything on this continent rather easily i think.

neat !

[tman]

The .375 Win is a 52,000 c.u.p. cartridge, whatever that may translate into in psi.. The Hodgdon manuals don't list any loads over 50,OOO cup for that cartridge..

Bolt thrust in the .375, at that pressure is much less than in the .454 Casull, or .500 S&W, loaded to 65,000 psi.

The boys at Big Horn Armory discovered the same things I experienced with the .454, when they tested an 1895 Marlin, with the big .500.. Locking lug was hammered and distorted; receiver sidewalls bulged outward, bolt was severely battered, and the gun became unsafe/unusable after just a few rounds fired..

Another possible determining factor for not including most of the cartridges mentioned above could be that they were regularly loaded with spitzer or semi-spitzer bullets. Marlin may have been overly-cautious about safety concerns, regarding the tubular magazines of their leverguns..

I was disappointed by the lack of factory support for the .375, and moreso regarding the .307 and .356, which I think are superior to the .375 in a lever-action.. Bullet selection may have spelled doom for all three rounds...

Well said!

[Blackhawk]

Wasn't the 225 Winchester also tried in a levergun?

Johnny

[hfcable]

Wasn't the 225 Winchester also tried in a levergun?

Johnny

i didnt know that, but that is interesting!

[Griff]

I've the the Marlin 375... been told it wasn't factory, as it was introduced in 1980, and my receiver is numbered to 1978. I've heard of a couple of others with receivers numbered before the intro date. I bought mine new, in the box with all the proper paperwork matching everything at Grant Boys in Costa Mesa, CA in mid 1980 for bear hunting. Could never afford a guided hunt... and my spot & stalk skills severely lack!

But I have no doubts that the 375 Win. cartridge is more than capable for the job.

The .375 Win is a 52,000 c.u.p. cartridge, whatever that may translate into in psi.. The Hodgdon manuals don't list any loads over 50,OOO cup for that cartridge..

I actually load mine, with Hornady's 220 grain bullet at quite bit lower pressure, but get excellent velocity for a 220 grain bullet. But it's getting harder and harder to find those.

Bolt thrust in the .375, at that pressure is much less than in the .454 Casull, or .500 S&W, loaded to 65,000 psi.

Thanks, I never knew that. I've often wondered why I didn't get much more flattened primers with the 375Win at its higher pressures than with a .30-30. That probably explains it.

I was disappointed by the lack of factory support for the .375, and moreso regarding the .307 and .356, which I think are superior to the .375 in a lever-action.. Bullet selection may have spelled doom for all three rounds...

Amen. Especially for the .375.

[wm]

IIRC when this came up before someone had some intimate knowledge about the project (marlin 336 in 250 Savage) said there was an issue with extraction and a concern about pointy bullets in the mag tube. I think Remington solved that in their pump rifles but the extraction issue? Seems like that should not have been insurmountable but I suppose if you are selling them as fast you can make them there is no much incentive to do R&D.

[JFE]

why the heck winchester did not make the 375 based on a 308/307/444 sized type case i cannot fathom! that would have been a heck of a cartridge, maybe better than the 307 or the 356.

I have a 336 built on the 356 necked up to 375 and can say that it is more fun than I can stand loaded clear up to potential.
Another thing is that Hornady 220 gr. flatpoints are a bit tender at top velocity-slowed it down a couple of hundred fps and works well even on close shots.If it was going to be ran at top velocity a custom bullet would be needed.

I had heard of such, but you are the only one i have heard from directly. with a custom bullet that would handle anything on this continent rather easily i think.

neat ![/quote]

I built one on a Win 94BB. Very easy conversion. Probably best bullet to use is a 235 gr Speer and flatten the tip a little to create a FN. FYI there is enough clearance in a Lee 375 Win FCD to work on this cartridge.

On a Marlin you should be able to use necked up 308 brass.