Does this gun exist?

leadpumper · Post by **leadpumper** » Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:01 pm

Stick shift driving, pump action lovin, hands on type finally shot a lever gun. Needless to say, I want one! Been researching rifles but don't see the combination I want. Is there one out there like this?
1. Long barrell, 24"+
2. octogonal barrel
3. side eject
4. side load

Not talking black powder or museum pieces. Need for quality and reliability is a given.

model55 · Post by **model55** » Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:38 pm

Marlin cowboy rifle comes to mind.

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:42 pm

Yep, Marlin Cowboy.

pwl44m · Post by **pwl44m** » Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:03 pm

Does it have to be a Cowboy ? Wouldn't just about any Marlin do ?
Welcome to the Forum, pull up a stump and sit a spell- They aint done yet.
Perry

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:13 pm

pwl44m wrote:Does it have to be a Cowboy ? Wouldn't just about any Marlin do ?
Welcome to the Forum, pull up a stump and sit a spell- They aint done yet.
Perry

I think the desire for a long barrel pretty much limits it to the cowboy --- or one of the MX series guns maybe, but those wouldnt be octagonal

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:24 pm

Browning 1886 rifle.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =330066346

Ok, I overlooked the side eject requirement........

Welcome to the forum.

pwl44m · Post by **pwl44m** » Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:44 pm

Marlin 1893 comes to mind, meets all the criteria ?
Perry
unless I missed sumthin

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:46 pm

Welcome to the fire!

Marlin it is for what you are looking for.

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:48 pm

Marlin Cowboy`s were made in both Mod.1894 and 336 versions.
So you can have pistol cartridge or on up to .45-70 if you choose.
I own several.357,.44mag.,.45 Colt, .38-55 and .45-70.
I am still looking for one in .30-30 though. No interest in the .41 mag.

44-40 Willy · Post by **44-40 Willy** » Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:48 pm

The early Marlin 1894 Cowboys had 24" octagon barrels. They switched to 20" octagon barrels around 2003.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:08 pm

1895 Cowboy is 26" of Kick Azz 45-70

gak · Post by **gak** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:12 am

Wasn't one of the later Connecticut Win 94s a 24+ octagonal? May be a mis-remembering on my part.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:19 am

and Welcome to THE Forum.

Yep, the Marlin Cowboy; comes in 2 basic models, the 1894 for pistol calibers and the 336 for rifle. (They call the .45-70 an 1895, but it is actually a 336CB. Comes in quite a few calibers, from .32-20 to .45-70. Not all are in current production.

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:47 am

The new Winchester Model 94 Sporter also fits that bill pretty closely (it's a half octagonal barrel), and it's available in two excellent chamberings:

http://www.winchesterguns.com/products/ ... mid=534178

The Marlin 1895 Cowboy:

http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firearms/ ... Cowboy.asp

Go get 'em! And welcome aboard.

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:10 am

TedH wrote:Browning 1886 rifle.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =330066346

Welcome to the forum.

Ted, he wants a side eject.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:28 am

The Rossi octagonal 24" guns are nice at a good price, and more widely available at the moment. They are Winchester 92 clones, so aren't "side-eject", but are one slick-shootin chunk of fun. Here's some various members of our family own (the purty one is my daughter's).

The scope on the Rossi 92 below is on a B-Square mount that is quick-detachable, but I just had it for bench-testing; the sights ultimately left on were a Lyman Globe front and a Taurus Tang rear, since the gun 'qualified' as accurate enough to be worth the effort.

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:35 am

1886 in 45-70. You can load mild to wild; bunnies to bruins.

AH, right.....side eject.... sorry

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:01 am

Tycer wrote:1886 in 45-70. You can load mild to wild; bunnies to bruins.

If you want side-eject, that's sure a good option; longer lever throw maybe.

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:13 am

sore shoulder wrote:
TedH wrote:Browning 1886 rifle.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =330066346

Welcome to the forum.

Ted, he wants a side eject.

Oh, I missed that.

I guess I was pushing my ultimate levergun a little too hard. That Browning is on my short list.

Thunder50 · Post by **Thunder50** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:18 am

If he can do without the octagonal barrel, a 336A will fit the bill.

What caliber are you looking for?

bdhold · Post by **bdhold** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:37 am

TedH wrote:Browning 1886 rifle.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =330066346 ...

gorgeous example, but I don't believe it's side-eject.

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:01 am

bulldog1935 wrote:
TedH wrote:Browning 1886 rifle.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =330066346 ...
gorgeous example, but I don't believe it's side-eject.

The Winchester fans appear to be ignoring that criteria

leadpumper · Post by **leadpumper** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:25 pm

Thanks all for the advice and welcomes.

This rifle is primarily for play. Think the octogonal adds to the frontier feel and the long length cuts down on the "toy" look. (now you brush hunters go easy on me for that) I really dont like the load from the end of the tube types so .22 and probably the .38's are out. I'll likely stick with the iron sights but not shot them enough to know if the top ejects bounce of anyone elses noggin.

I've tried the Mossberg 464 and didnt like the excessive wiggle in the trigger and action. The Marlin 336 felt right but round and short didnt move me. I've not heard much good about Winchester since the '64 model year. Watching videos of people shooting Rossi's doesnt inspire much confidence. However, its hard to tell between quality issues and not fully working the action.

The cowboy page on the Marlin website didnt load when I looked so I missed the 1895. So far that looks like the winner. (thanks BlaineG). My buddy likes Garands but 30-06 is not a shoot for fun round. The 30-30 is okay but that buck a shot takes some fun out of it. Hows the options on the 45-70 rounds?

Ray Newman · Post by **Ray Newman** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:23 pm

"The 30-30 is okay but that buck a shot takes some fun out of it. Hows the options on the 45-70 rounds?"
--LeadPumper

Commercial and some reloaded ammunition is not going to be much -- if at all -- cheaper.

Might be a good reason to start reloading to take full advantge of the calibre. Plus you will be in charge of the quality control....

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:41 pm

My 1886 (and 92) drops the spent cases in a neat little pile just to the right of my right foot.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:48 pm

If you shoot 45-70, you better reload....It's about twice the price of 30wcf....stick with 300 grain cast, and light loads and it won't kick that much.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:22 pm

If you want tons of fun and affordable shooting, strongly consider a .357 Mag rifle, and the Rossi is actually a nice one. There are few if any leverguns of new production that live up to the mystique and craftsmanship of the half-century-old ones out there; if you want to shop around and don't mind the higher price, they ARE beautiful, but for a 'shooter' you won't get more practical than a Rossi 92 clone. The brass goes up over my right shoulder and lands 3-4 feet away; easy to find. I'd say the Marlin is 'better' in terms of fewer parts, and easier to put a scope on or a Williams FP on, but for $30 and the use of a drill press you can drill and tap one for a Williams FP and get about the best sight around short of a scope. Besides, most of us don't like to scope leverguns anyway.

If you already have a 357 Mag or 44 Mag or 45 Colt handgun, consider a short-action levergun like the Rossi 92 or Marlin 1894 in a "pistol caliber" because it will be less expensive to reload than a bottle-neck or larger 'rifle' cartridge, pack plenty of power if you want it (for game up to whitetail or for home protection), and simplify your ammo inventory.

Search for COSteve's posts on his 357 Mag Rossi Octagonal - he has TONS of fun with it, and shoots it for less than you can now buy 22 LR for. See especially these first two links:

http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... si#p310339
http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... si#p307753

http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=39949
http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=38960
http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=35577
http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=29766

fordwannabe · Post by **fordwannabe** » Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:23 am

A part of your reply was that 30-06 isn't a shoot for fun round...well a 45-70 can rattle you more than a garand in 06 ever thought of doing. Just be careful which ammo you get they have many types that are safe and mild, but if you accidently get some of the big game loads....I am telling ya it'll make your eyes go blurry, so pay attention. It is nice to have the option of going either way though. I have some mousefart loads that shoot sooooo nice and very little recoil. I also have some loads that have solids in them and you gotta hang on to the gun or it's gonna bounce of your head. I am a huge fan of the caliber, just a warning.

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:57 am

leadpumper wrote:Thanks all for the advice and welcomes.

This rifle is primarily for play. Think the octogonal adds to the frontier feel and the long length cuts down on the "toy" look. (now you brush hunters go easy on me for that) I really dont like the load from the end of the tube types so .22 and probably the .38's are out. I'll likely stick with the iron sights but not shot them enough to know if the top ejects bounce of anyone elses noggin.

I've tried the Mossberg 464 and didnt like the excessive wiggle in the trigger and action. The Marlin 336 felt right but round and short didnt move me. I've not heard much good about Winchester since the '64 model year. Watching videos of people shooting Rossi's doesnt inspire much confidence. However, its hard to tell between quality issues and not fully working the action.

The cowboy page on the Marlin website didnt load when I looked so I missed the 1895. So far that looks like the winner. (thanks BlaineG). My buddy likes Garands but 30-06 is not a shoot for fun round. The 30-30 is okay but that buck a shot takes some fun out of it. Hows the options on the 45-70 rounds?

That narrows it down quite a lot. .45-70 is even more expensive to shoot than .30-30, and if you're not looking to hang a scope on it then you really should not give a hoot one way or the other about top eject or side eject or angle eject. What you're saying you want in the above narrative, frankly, is an octagon barrel Rossi 92 in one of the pistol calibers like .357 Mag. I don't know what you've seen in videos on the internet, but the truth is they flat out work and they can work really well with some tuning and smoothing if you're handy or willing to pay for it.

Or get the Marlin and reload for it.

piller · Post by **piller** » Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:05 am

Just my opinion, but you have had a lot of good advice so far. I love my Rossi in a pistol caliber, and have used it on game big enough that I wouldn't recommend doing it again. I have never had a failure with it.

leadpumper · Post by **leadpumper** » Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:14 pm

I agree. Very helpful posts. Done some more trials and that 45/70 is not a bad round to shoot, with the right load. However, I've got my guns for meat and the zombie apocalypse. I'd like something "cheap" to spend a day in Plinker-ville with. That Rossi 92, blued with the 24" octogonal barrel, in the 38/357 looks like most of my list. It's just not right that you have to drop a C-note on a new gun before shooting. Even if you dont get a lemon, Steves tune up sounds more "have to" than "should do".

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:19 pm

leadpumper wrote:I agree. Very helpful posts. Done some more trials and that 45/70 is not a bad round to shoot, with the right load. However, I've got my guns for meat and the zombie apocalypse. I'd like something "cheap" to spend a day in Plinker-ville with. That Rossi 92, blued with the 24" octogonal barrel, in the 38/357 looks like most of my list. It's just not right that you have to drop a C-note on a new gun before shooting. Even if you dont get a lemon, Steves tune up sounds more "have to" than "should do".

Think of it this way: If the gun cost you $200 more in hand-fitting to work perfectly every time, would it still be a bargain? Methinks the answer is yes. So, you're saving money by DIY!!!!

leadpumper · Post by **leadpumper** » Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:12 pm

I'd rather add the $200 to the Rossi price and get a well made gun. If there was a better one in the configuration I want. There just doesnt seem to be one. Shooting the different models suggested hasn't helped either. Just putting a couple rounds thru a lever action is as satisfying as eating one potato chip.

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:16 pm

http://store.stevesgunz.com/index.php?m ... ucts_id=10

leadpumper · Post by **leadpumper** » Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:17 pm

I thought the hard part would be picking the right gun. Got lots of help in choosing the rifle and havent been able to find the rifle. Stevesgunz was surprisingly responsive but has a 9 month waiting list. Been to shops and gun shows in a few states and the only one I found was a commemorative for $3K. Even talked to a friend in Sao Paulo but thats a very restrictive city. Crazy.

North Country Gal · Post by **North Country Gal** » Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:12 pm

You won't find center fire rifle ammo, off the shelf, much cheaper than the 30-30. If that's too pricey for you, you better start reloading.

A 24" octagonal barrel is going to make for heavy gun, compared to the same thing in a round barrel. My 70s vintage 336A, despite it's 24" round barrel, points and handles like dream. Going octagon on this gun would completely destroy that.

70s vintage 336As, sometimes called second edition As (not to be confused with later 336As - 20"barreled economy versions of the 336) are tough to find, though. They were some of the most graceful Marlin 30-30s ever made, however.

44-40 Willy · Post by **44-40 Willy** » Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:55 pm

I've got a Navy Arms 1892 which is basically a Rossi 92 with real walnut and better fit and finish. Mine is a 24" octagon in 357 and a tack driver. All I've ever done to mine is flush it out good when new, shoot it and work the action and it smoothed out with use. I've also got a Marlin 1894 Carbine in 357, but the Navy Arms is my go to gun around here. It's a little front end heavy as Rossi used the same 7/8" across the flats barrel blank for all calibers which in a 357 results in a heavy barrel.

All this talk of spring kits and so forth might be good for a CAS racin' gun, but I have no need for one of those and my 1892 being factory stock works great at what I use it for (hunting and just general shooting).

If I was looking to buy another pistol caliber lever, it'd be a Rossi in 357. You can't have too many rifles in 357 Mag.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:59 pm

still wondering what the benefit of a 24" barrel could possibly be.

and what's the matter with top eject, I forget?

.357 is a good medium cal for plinking or hunting

hope you find what you're looking for.

Grizz

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Sun Mar 31, 2013 3:50 pm

I can't believe there's posts like this.

hightime · Post by **hightime** » Sun Mar 31, 2013 3:55 pm

How about a Legacy model 94 AE. I know there are two models, one has a long octagon barrel. I have the other.

Owen

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:16 pm

which part, the part about barrels that are long enough to slow the bullets down,

or the part about 357 being a good medium bore plinker ?

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:19 am

Grizz wrote: and what's the matter with top eject, I forget?

Grizz

I couldn't let that one go brother, lol.

Open on top giving access for dirt and other stuff.

Can't easily scope.

Brass has to go up before coming back down, which means anything above the ejection port like a tree branch can knock it back down into the receiver, physics says easier to go laterally.

Nearly impossible to field strip for maintenance and cleaning.

Must be cleaned from the muzzle.

Twice as many moving parts as a Marlin.

Much longer lever throw.

Noisy, sounds like 3 Marlins when cycling the action.

Nice antique, but the modern Marlin 1895/336 action is much more practical.

Someday when I'm retired I'll collect obsolete antiques like a Model T, horse drawn farm implements, 1911's and an 1886.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:41 am

The 24" or 26" octagon barrels are not really THAT much heavier than a round in the same caliber... at least ones with a factory taper to the barrel. The 24"-26" octagon barrel DOES make for a steadier hold and negates some front sight wobble due to that weight up front. At least until the shooter gets fatigued trying to hold it steady...

My heavy, non-tapered 26" Winchester 94 it MUCH easier to hold steady than say a 16" Trapper in the same action and cartridge.

Plus, and more importantly, the much longer sight radius makes for a more precise aim.

Sixgun wrote:I can't believe there's posts like this.

What? Not everyone knows what you know!

So! It's been 11 full days... what'd you buy?

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:21 am

Griff wrote:The 24" or 26" octagon barrels are not really THAT much heavier than a round in the same caliber...

Griff, every time someone talks about the weight of a rifle, I picture several things in my mind, a colonial soldier/farmer or mountain man/pioneer carrying a rifle with a 3 to 4 foot long barrel, a WWII soldier carrying an M1 Garand, and a modern infantryman carrying a 20 lb squad automatic rifle with 6-800 rnds of ammo wearing full body armor, a rucksack, and walking 10 miles at a rapid march pace, before conducting a full on dynamic raid.

Then I laugh.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:25 am

well, I'm one of those antiques.

I like that there are enough parts inside to preclude the marlin-jam

I like that it sounds like a piece of precision machinery, something built by real machinists

I like that it doesn't require a doo-dad protuberance to "assist" the round into battery like you youngsters have

I like that we're collectible

and on a side note, the 32" barrel on my H&R is longer than the acceleration phase of my primary 45/70 load, and my eyes aren't fooled by the longer sight radius, there's plenty of front sights to choose from

Grizz

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:58 am

Grizz wrote:well, I'm one of those antiques.

I like that there are enough parts inside to preclude the marlin-jam

I like that it sounds like a piece of precision machinery, something built by real machinists

I like that it doesn't require a doo-dad protuberance to "assist" the round into battery like you youngsters have

I like that we're collectible

and on a side note, the 32" barrel on my H&R is longer than the acceleration phase of my primary 45/70 load, and my eyes aren't fooled by the longer sight radius, there's plenty of front sights to choose from

Grizz

I've heard of that Marlin jam, has yours ever done it or have you ever seen one do it? I'm actually asking a serious question on that one, and I recall all the threads on how to prevent it, and I remember once thinking I might do it to mine, but niether of them ever had an issue. If it's really something I should worry about I may revisit the preventative measures.

Ok, the doo-dad, which I believe you are referring to the "forward assist", is no different than a bolt handle. Because the Armalite design was made without an external bolt handle and relied solely on the recoil spring to put put the bolt in battery, they had to later add that feature. Since all prior military and almost all civilian rifles had some sort of handle or lever, that "doo-dad" was simply adding that feature back into the design more or less. Ever watch someone trained on a Garand load one? The slam that bolt forward using the bolt handle. Garand, M1A, 1903, etc all have a "forward assist" "doo-dad".

Even your 1886, it's called a lever.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:25 pm

I know, I know. The difference is the 86 isn't sending a spring to do a man's job.

leadpumper · Post by **leadpumper** » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:18 pm

Love how passionate you guys are about your lever actions. Good to know if and when I ever finally get mine that I'll be in good company.

Post by **Hobie** » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:52 pm

sore shoulder wrote:
Grizz wrote: and what's the matter with top eject, I forget?

Grizz

I couldn't let that one go brother, lol.

Open on top giving access for dirt and other stuff.

never had any stuff fall into my rifles...

Can't easily scope.

Personally see little value in that for my use.

Brass has to go up before coming back down, which means anything above the ejection port like a tree branch can knock it back down into the receiver, physics says easier to go laterally.

If the extractor and ejector work I've never had a problem with such.

Nearly impossible to field strip for maintenance and cleaning.

Must be cleaned from the muzzle.

Never had a problem with these issues either.

Twice as many moving parts as a Marlin.

Which hasn't guaranteed perfection.

Much longer lever throw.

Never noticed in the excitement of shooting game.

Noisy, sounds like 3 Marlins when cycling the action.

Don't wear plugs or muffs due to the action cycling noise...

Nice antique, but the modern Marlin 1895/336 action is much more practical.

Someday when I'm retired I'll collect obsolete antiques like a Model T, horse drawn farm implements, 1911's and an 1886.

Then again I AM retired, an antique myself, but not of the age of some here, and I like the old ways and old things.

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:16 pm

Well if you only drive your convertible with the top down on dry pavement on sunny days it probably won't get dirty or wet inside either.