A thought and question about forgiveness and the afterlife

[J Miller]

The thread about the judge calling the pedophile a piece of pelosi and the resulting comments brought up this thought.

The pedophile is now going to serve his earthly punishment in prison.
However "IF" he should accept Christ as his savior and repent of his sins he will be welcomed into Heaven just like any one else. There will be no punishment there. That is what my Bible says.
If he doesn't, he's toast ......

So my question is this; will we as people, spirits, or what ever we will, be changed so we accept this person as God accepts him? I do believe we will recognize others we know, so how does one go to heaven with a condemning attitude? I don't think we can.

Just a thought on my part. My opinion of him has not changed from what I posted on that thread, but regardless of his earthly punishment, his afterlife depends on him, not us.

Joe

[Grizz]

That's a great question Joe!!

The solution is that we will be transformed to be like Christ. We will know His love. Agape, divine love. We will have that love in its perfection. God's judgement is against all who reject Him and His sacrifice. On the other hand God's blessings will be limitless to His adopted children, hence we will have no forgiveness issues. We will love one another the way God loves us.

This bears clarification. We WILL NOT BECOME GODS in any sense BECAUSE we are and always will be created beings and God has no creator.

Here on earth we are commanded to love one another this way. We get a start, a toe hold, towards this perfection while we are on the journey.

Something to remember about God is that all of the facets we see, that we call attributes, are infinite and eternal.

No one deserves to be saved. God does this out of the goodness and agape, or divine love, of His character.
His Love is eternal and infinite. His Grace is eternal and infinite. His Mercy is eternal and infinite. His Forgiveness is eternal and infinite. And His Judgement is eternal and infinite.

1 Corinthians 13 is the great "love" chapter. Allister Begg is doing a verse by verse study that you can download and listen to, or listen online to here:

http://www.truthforlife.org/resources/s ... al-church/ is the link to the entire series.

http://www.truthforlife.org/broadcasts/latest-aired/ is the link to today's installment of the series

I recommend this man as a teacher because he uses scripture to explain scripture as it should be. He applies scripture the way scripture instructs us to it. He is very intelligent. And he is very easy to listen to.

Hope this helps

Grizz

[Old Savage]

Ah, the mysteries of just how it is that God will be handling things.

[Newtmaker]

A close friend puts it this way. Just think about it a while.
"Here on earth we can "not" sin (we must choose to do so) but in heaven we cannot sin (we cannot choose to do so)"

The human mind cannot comprehend what the heavenly life will be like. We surmise it will be wonderful, marvelous, and I believe we will all be busy, but beyond that, I cannot imagine!

Walt

[bdhold]

God doesn't pursue us without end. At some point rejecting the Holy Spirit was your last chance. How many times did a pedophile reject the Holy Spirit (rhetorical).
Our minds don't work like God's mind, but after all, he did create justice.
A good exercise of apologetics, but for me, all apologetics can be answered with two facts - statements in the bible comparing the minds of men and our perception of time to our limited understanding of God's perspective, and the fact that space and time is a framework he created for us, so he cannot be contained by either. If John Calvin had understood this one, the fact that Christ came at just the right time, the doctrine of predetermination and the theology of separate dispensations wouldn't be needed. This is why his name is I Am. In fact he says, paraphrased, before the universe was, I am.

Most theology was built around a Newtonian God, and in fact, time was made into god by man.
Even an einsteinian God is arcane compared to the reality, which we won't be able to understand until we are made like him.
Lucky for us - he made it as simple for us as he possibly could. Receive it as a gift.

[M. M. Wright]

Redeemed by Grace, through Faith in Jesus Christ!

[Grizz]

Redeemed by Grace, through Faith in Jesus Christ!

Just so!!!

Brothers and Sisters...,

PLEASE LISTEN TO ALLISTAIR BEGG TODAY. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE.

If you believe, please listen.

If you don't believe, please listen.

If you hate God, please listen.

http://www.truthforlife.org/broadcasts/latest-aired/

this is a link to the 80 mb download of the entire series.

http://www.truthforlife.org/resources/s ... al-church/

on this page are the separate files that you can download, or subscribe to in itunes,
or listen to them online.

but PLEASE listen to this one:

http://www.truthforlife.org/resources/s ... al-church/

please

thank you

[Old Savage]

Might look at 2nd Thessalonians Chap 2 Verse 10 and on.

[Charles]

I have a hard enough time taking care of my stuff. I no longer worry about how God does does His stuff. He will do a better job than I would anyway.

[AJMD429]

So what is the 'official' word on this...?

Say you wind up in Heaven, and you're sitting around chatting with a couple other dudes who seem nice-enough. One of them is a guy who lived a sin-free life and spent most of it helping other people live righteously, another is a guy who dipped into the booze too much after a divorce and depression, and in a moment of bad judgement, held up a liquor store for rent money. The third guy is someone who kidnapped and raped children before dismembering them.

Surely you four are not all treated as 'equals' once in heaven...????

Sorry if my lack of understanding of this from a Christian perspective makes some feel I'm unworthy of discussing it, but I'm truly curious as to what the Official Teaching would be on such an issue.

[Old Savage]

Officia word? Which official? Well, there are no sin free lives in the sense you are saying - we will leave Jesus out of this as the exception, but it might be that for those there - their sins are covered and have passed beyond judgement.

[Blaine]

Men have no earthly idea of what afterlife is going to be.

[shooter]

So what is the 'official' word on this...?

Say you wind up in Heaven, and you're sitting around chatting with a couple other dudes who seem nice-enough. One of them is a guy who lived a sin-free life and spent most of it helping other people live righteously, another is a guy who dipped into the booze too much after a divorce and depression, and in a moment of bad judgement, held up a liquor store for rent money. The third guy is someone who kidnapped and raped children before dismembering them.

Surely you four are not all treated as 'equals' once in heaven...????

Sorry if my lack of understanding of this from a Christian perspective makes some feel I'm unworthy of discussing it, but I'm truly curious as to what the Official Teaching would be on such an issue.

None of us know exactly how it's going to be. I will say that if you've made it to Heaven, then there will be no judgement once you are there. As far as everyone being equal, there is some debate among that. We will all be equal in that our sins have been forgiven and our slate is wiped clean. There is some evidence to suggest that those that live a more righteous life will have greater rewards in Heaven. Those rewards are not clear. The Bible talks about storing up treasure in Heaven by doing good works while on earth. The treasure is not specified, and the use is not specified.

As far as people in Heaven being labeled "pedophile", "murderer", "rapist", etc., I don't think that will be the case. If you're in Heaven your slate is clean. That's what grace is all about. It's not that anyone deserves it. It wouldn't be called grace if we could do something to earn it.

[mod71alaska]

So what is the 'official' word on this...?

Say you wind up in Heaven, and you're sitting around chatting with a couple other dudes who seem nice-enough. One of them is a guy who lived a sin-free life and spent most of it helping other people live righteously, another is a guy who dipped into the booze too much after a divorce and depression, and in a moment of bad judgement, held up a liquor store for rent money. The third guy is someone who kidnapped and raped children before dismembering them.

Surely you four are not all treated as 'equals' once in heaven...????

Sorry if my lack of understanding of this from a Christian perspective makes some feel I'm unworthy of discussing it, but I'm truly curious as to what the Official Teaching would be on such an issue.

Christ's death and resurrection paid the debt of sin for all mankind and offers salvation through Christ for all who seek forgiveness in Him. When we ask for forgiveness of our sins through Christ we stand before God without the blemish of any sin. No sin is left unforgiven; no deed is too great that is is not forgiven.

As for who is first among equals in Heaven? I've heard that televangelists and lawyers are first because there are so few of them!!!

[Grizz]

Doc

God's grace is infinite, and it is free to those who trust him, and there is nothing anyone can do to earn it.

God's infinite grace is so enormous that He won't remember any of our sins against. Promise in the bible.

No one in heaven will be recounting their sins to anyone else. Everyone who lives there will be recounting God's mercy in their lives and the past on earth will all be passed away. This is the promise of the bible.

No one can earn admittance into heaven, but everyone can put their trust in Christ and hope in him. Everyone can believe God. And those who do are promised eternal life in His presence.

All of this is in the bible. If you listen to the audio I linked above it will explain more better than I ever can just exactly what a Christian is, and is not. Straight up from the word.

You asked a great question, one that deserves a great answer. That's found in the gospel of John. John wrote it specifically and expressly for us and those like us. If you read it as a letter written to you to answer your questions, it will.

and dittos to what Mod71 said. Word

Grizz

[olyinaz]

Surely you four are not all treated as 'equals' once in heaven...????

A good question and don't worry about judgement from us here, I sense that we are not that kind of crowd.

Something to think about: The question itself is asked from a human perspective, reflecting human values and a human judgement system. That doesn't work.

Also, reflect upon this thought for a moment: Supposing that we will be created beings that reflect what we learned, or did not learn, here on Earth in this short life in our new existence there...what is the influence of the crimes of, let's say, an Adolf Hitler over 40 years to a being that will exists for billions of years? I suspect - I don't know, but I suspect - that there will be SOME influence on that being, but I don't know what it will be.

And yes, I assume that even Adolf Hitler asked for Jesus' forgiveness in his last moments. That's a thought, no?

[Bill in Oregon]

I have faith in the perfect justice of the Author of the Universe. My sins would fill a large book, and I'm not quite 60. If I can be forgiven, anyone can.

[gak]

Surely you four are not all treated as 'equals' once in heaven...????

A good question and don't worry about judgement from us here, I sense that we are not that kind of crowd.

Something to think about: The question itself is asked from a human perspective, reflecting human values and a human judgement system. That doesn't work.

Also, reflect upon this thought for a moment: Supposing that we will be created beings that reflect what we learned, or did not learn, here on Earth in this short life in our new existence there...what is the influence of the crimes of, let's say, an Adolf Hitler over 40 years to a being that will exists for billions of years? I suspect - I don't know, but I suspect - that there will be SOME influence on that being, but I don't know what it will be.

And yes, I assume that even Adolf Hitler asked for Jesus' forgiveness in his last moments. That's a thought, no?

Oly you (and others) make a good point(s). I believe that, regardless of your religious persuasion, that those that have so bastardized their faith (OBL etc), whatever it is, AND blasphemed God by overtly (intentionally, not colaterlly) hurting/killing innocents--in most "prpper thinking" folks' and I would guess certainly in God's eyes--would have a different "lesson plan." Some have traditionally called this hell, or perhaps it is an ante-room of some sort that says "as for you OBL, you're over there..." - whether for all eternity or until some grand lesson is learned and acknowledged, I don't know. As a mere mortal, I would hope.this would be the case. There are mistakes that all people make, to verying but not damnable degrees, and then there are those that, as many noted about the 9/11 terrorists had "no soul" in their eyes but pure evil. I believe that their--those in that "category"--fate (above) was sealed either when they delievered their acts or when they physically died, and hve no place beside the rest of us (hopefully!) "mere mortals"....they either never ascended or they went someplace else! Again, we can only hope. So, forgive me--if you will--but if God is a being/entity of pure love, which I believe He/She is, He:She has no place (along side "better" folk) for those that simply do not have it in them, not just hiding waiting to be brought out, but effectively just not there...perhaps as a mistake from the start (or some go so far to suggest "placed here to put others lives and actions into perspective and force them to get their acts together in the opposite direction." Not sure I subscribe to that, but not sure I don't either...who knows?! As someone(s) suggested here, none of us really does.

[C. Cash]

Your on it Joe, And what you say is what the Bible tells me. Trust is something else, and none of these folks should be alone with our children or in a position where they can hurt children.

[Grizz]

Yhe Bible is God's revelation to mankind, is the owner's operator manual, contains absolutely everything that pertains to man and God and law, and faith, hope, and love, Jesus is God and God's Word, God in the flesh.

With God there is NO "he/she" involved. The he/she meme is the influence of the pagan culture corrupting the Truth. If God meant to be addressed or thought of with a slant bar, He would have told us so. Jesus told us to address God as Father, and not to address a man as father because we have one Father in heaven. His words.

God in the flesh spoke more about "hell" than anyone else in the Bible. I take Jesus at His word, believe what He says, and trust Him with the results. This is the crux of salvation. Crux, get it?

2 Corinthians 5:21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

That is, God is righteous and one way He demonstrates this is by imputing Christ's righteousness to us when we believe God and trust Jesus. Christians, while often accused by others, are not self-righteous if they are informed by Jesus.

It is often seen that men confuse God with man's foibles and proclivities. Nothing could be more mistaken. God is not an anthropomorphic invention of mankind. He is the creator of mankind. It is very natural for men to make the wrong assumptions about God:

1 Corinthians 2:13-15 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words. The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments,

Prayers UP for understanding

in line for understanding

Grizz