Savage 1899 , 'expert' info please..

[smokenrust]

OK, 'experts' are anyone that knows more than what I do... which sometimes ain't much
I have a Savage 1899, SN 81. 721 that the octagonal barrel was cut off 1" at the thread end and rethreaded. Where upon, rechambered for a 30-30 cal.
Question 1. On 1", (actually appears to be 31/32"), can the chamber be cleaned up enough to make a perfect 30-30 chamber from a Sav 303cal.?

In pictures below, The rifle shows a plating, and it is gold looking in color...and seams like pretty tough too.
Question 2. What would this rifle been plated with, Bronze, Brass, Gold ??? The barrel has some of the plating yet too...

In the barrel pic, the barrel looks like it was a forged and not smoothed off before the plating ... would that be correct to think that was what they did? Or was this rifle plated some where along the way by somebody else?
Any significants to it being plated?

Did Savage leave any records of the rifles they produced? and records in their completion?
I am guessing since the barrel was chopped and rechambered, its value would be low... and not worth restoring it beyound a shooter.
Thanks, SnR

[Hobie]

It seems to me that if you don't get a great story with the gun and it isn't connected to Admiral Byrd, Jim Corbett or some such it is a project gun. I would think that the plating, whatever it is, was likely not factory.

[3leggedturtle]

303 Savage is bigger in diameter than 30/30. 30/40 Krag brass is used to make it. I thought I was gonna buy one, and figured You could use a 30/40 reamer to clean up chamber and not have to swage the base down, and still keep it the same length as 303. All you would have to is trim 30/40 brass back to 303 case length. And not deal with swaging or turning down the casehead. Well something like that. My fingers aint typing how the words are forming in my mind

[BigSky56]

If they set the barrel back 1" it cleaned up the chamber as the 303 mostly has a longer neck and only held a couple 3 more grains powder than a 30-30. danny

[earlmck]

I'm having a little trouble understanding the question, smokenrust. Does the rifle at present have a 303 Savage chamber and you want a 30/30 chamber? In which case you are going to have to set her back a bit farther 'cause like BigSky says, 303 Sav is a bit larger diameter. Or do you have a bad 30/30 chamber and would like to clean it up with a 303 Savage chamber? Where also you'd have to set the barrel back a turn more 'cause the 30/30 shoulder begins past where the 303 shoulder would be.

But if you have a decent 303 Savage chamber, PRVI partizan is making the brass now. I bought a bag last year from Graf's, or MidSouth or somebody. It seems to have a couple grains less powder capacity than my 30/30 (WW or RP) brass but has a beautiful long neck for any cast bullet you'd like to use.

And like Hobie says, unless you have a heck of a story with it, it is just a "project" gun.

[BigSky56]

Earl I think he is questioning if the the re-chamber is up to par and not a bubba job. I would do a chamber cast before I put time & $ into the barrel. danny

[smokenrust]

Hobie, I wish I had gotten a great story with it...
So now since its a project gun, Maybe I should go back to 303 sav and then do an AI type of job on it?

Sure was hoping some one had some history on the guns made at Savage Arms Company in Utica NY.

Thanks 3leg turtle, I have other 303Sav. that I need to get some powder containers for... and if the chamber is bad, I think your suggestion might be something to think about.

Earlmck,
Bigsky has it right...`I was wondering if there was a chance of a bubba screwup when they dropped the 30-30 reamer into its throat. And might have not gotten all of the chamber cleaned up.
... Only one way to tell, load and shoot it. But first I need to clean up the rotary magazine. It sticks in there... without bullets

Dan, thanks for the diagram...

OK, now being the only marking left on the barrel for cal. was the letter 'S', should I have it stamped 30-30 winchester.. or 30 WCF for the next feller that might own it? or remind the current owner what it really is?

[Sixgun]

Yes, you can get factory letters as I have several of them.....but............I'm at work and don't have the info handy. I'll check back later tonight. You can probably get it faster just by going to the Svage collectors forum.

Danny and Earl are right on the cartridge info. I have a very early 1899 that is marked "30 Sav." but shoots the 30-30. Thinking the same as you I had it lettered and it came back as a 30-30. In the early days Savage marked their guns chambered in 30-30, "30 Sav.".

Mine has a half rd/oct and measures a full 26".-----------------Sixgun

[Old Ironsights]

I won't be home to check my refrences until Friday, but when I am I can get you year & model info after asking a few pertinate questions.


Better pics of the stock & forarm would help too.

[airedaleman]

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthread ... Collectors

[Pete44ru]

I have a Savage 1899, SN 81. 721 - Your rifle dates from the 1st quarter of 1909 - The octagonal barrel would have been a $39 option at that time.

In pictures below, The rifle shows plating - Any significants to it being plated? - Not AFAIK, except to reduce the value

Did Savage leave any records of the rifles they produced? - Yes, but as posted above, the info will cost ya, since Savage won't be forthcoming. The info's only available from the retired Savage historian, John Callahan (sp)

FWIW, Savage 99's usually have their model letter(s) stamped into the front face of the receiver, on one or both (if a 2-letter model) sides of the rotary magazine's axle bushing.


.

[BigSky56]

As for stamping the bbl with the current chambering I would go with stamping it like savage would of in the year made as its a original bbl and not a new rebarrel. danny

[smokenrust]

Pete44 mentioned letters on each side of axel bushing and I found a small 2 on the left side and on the right surface, theres a bigger O .
On the barrel alongside the rear sight, there is stamping..
SAVAGE Hi-pressure steel
Model 1899.
$39 dollar optional barrel...Dang, and they went and cut it..GRRR!
Sav 30 would work... LOL
Thanks Airedaleman for the link.
Here are a few more pictures.

[smokenrust]

As for history on this Savage, I contacted previous owner that said that he had purchased it back in the mid 90's from another dealer that had a shop on the Oregon coast. He had planned on restoring it but just never got around to doing it.
Well so much for history on this gun. Now to make new history and maybe find out its origional beginnings... SnR

[Old Ironsights]

As I look at the pics, and correlate them to Murray, I see this:

A Savage Model 1899-B Standard Rifle, 26" Octagon Barrel.

Made from 1899 to 1915, available in .303 Savage, .30-30 (1900), and .25-35, .32-40, .38-55 (1903)

The B model (identified by the rifle vs. shotgun butt) was available in 26" with 28" & 30" @ $1/inch extra.

It looks like the schnoble tip on the forarm is either well worn or has been sanded down somewhat.

The barrel address should say, in all caps:

MANUFACTURED BY THE SAVAGE ARMS COMPANY, UTICA, N.Y. U.S.A
PATENTED FEBRUARY 7. 1893, JULY 25. 1893. OCTOBER 3, 1899.

Around 1908 (aprox #90,000) the bolt cocking indicator was moved/changed to a pin on the upper tang. If yours does not have that pin, and that brass bit above the cartridge count window is the cocking indicator, then yours predates 1908 mfg.

[smokenrust]

Thanks Old Ironsights, your information was interesting,
The barrels total length is 23 1/2 inches ...
and the dovetail is cut just 1 inch further for the forearm mount, meaning it was 24 1/2 inches long and from the factroy number of 26" it means the muzzle end was cut off 1 1/2" for a total of 2 1/2"s ...
The front site dove tail's foreward edge sits 3/4" from the end. And the end does look like it seen a saw marks across the end.

the barrel this is how it looks down the top;




Now what would you fellers do to refurbish the stock?
Thanks

[Pete44ru]

Nothing, as a refinished stock will make the metal parts look (as bad as they are) even worse.

It is what it is - love it or leave it.

.

[airedaleman]

This gun is a Model 1895.. The round hole cocking indicator is a dead giveaway as are the long stock cheeks. The brass bit above the counter window is filling a screw hole. Best recheck the serial number. Production estimates run 5,000 to 8,000, all made for Arthur by the Marlin Firearms Company.

[smokenrust]

Airedaleman, Serial number is stamped exactly like this, 81. 721 with a period after the 81. , not a comma; Never seen a Savage with this type of serial number marking.

The barrrel has the writing exactly like what Old Ironsights said;
MANUFACTURED BY THE SAVAGE ARMS COMPANY, UTICA, N.Y. U.S.A
PATENTED FEBRUARY 7. 1893, JULY 25. 1893. OCTOBER 3, 1899.

and below the rear sight, it says;
SAVAGE HI-PRESSURE STEEL
MODEL 1899

I do know that this barrel was cut on both ends and it could possibly be from another gun or a replacement barrel. because the barrel has been off this rifle and could have been changed.
So... Something definately has happened in the 100+ year old firearm.
Thank you for the info

[airedaleman]

Smokenrust, obviously was rebarrelled at some point. The serial number really is a stumper; Your gun is truly worth bringing to the attention of the people at Savage Collectors. Would be very interesting to see what they come up with.

[airedaleman]

Airedaleman, Serial number is stamped exactly like this, 81. 721 with a period after the 81. , not a comma; Never seen a Savage with this type of serial number marking.

The barrrel has the writing exactly like what Old Ironsights said;
MANUFACTURED BY THE SAVAGE ARMS COMPANY, UTICA, N.Y. U.S.A
PATENTED FEBRUARY 7. 1893, JULY 25. 1893. OCTOBER 3, 1899.

and below the rear sight, it says;
SAVAGE HI-PRESSURE STEEL
MODEL 1899

I do know that this barrel was cut on both ends and it could possibly be from another gun or a replacement barrel. because the barrel has been off this rifle and could have been changed.
So... Something definately has happened in the 100+ year old firearm.
Thank you for the info

You are most welcome! I saw the responses; it will be interesting to see if there are any further developments...