Iran in Photos

[DBW]

Considering the Corporation's hostile view of Iran, I decided this morning look around the net to see what I could see about the place. Interesting to say the least. Some beautiful looking women for certain.

http://www.pbase.com/k_amj/throughout_iran&page=all

http://imgur.com/a/OrkDh

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnKYS-bIHYY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtELk8S3dhU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D61uriEGsIM


People are people and all created by the same Creator. None is more special than the other (in spite of references to "chosen people" in some silly religious book). Politicians the world over are batsheet crazy, regardless of the invisible lines on maps.

[J Miller]

Considering the Corporation's hostile view of Iran, I decided this morning look around the net to see what I could see about the place. Interesting to say the least. Some beautiful looking women for certain.

http://www.pbase.com/k_amj/throughout_iran&page=all

http://imgur.com/a/OrkDh

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnKYS-bIHYY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtELk8S3dhU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D61uriEGsIM


People are people and all created by the same Creator. None is more special than the other (in spite of references to "chosen people" in some silly religious book). Politicians the world over are batsheet crazy, regardless of the invisible lines on maps.

Not sure I can agree with that comment.
This comment I TOTALLY agree with.

As for the pictures, here I sit twiddling my thumbs as this slow dial up takes it's sweet butt time.

Joe

[sore shoulder]

Considering the Corporation's hostile view of Iran, I decided this morning look around the net to see what I could see about the place. Interesting to say the least. Some beautiful looking women for certain.

http://www.pbase.com/k_amj/throughout_iran&page=all

http://imgur.com/a/OrkDh

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnKYS-bIHYY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtELk8S3dhU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D61uriEGsIM


People are people and all created by the same Creator. None is more special than the other (in spite of references to "chosen people" in some silly religious book). Politicians the world over are batsheet crazy, regardless of the invisible lines on maps.

You do realize that the leadership in Iran believes they are "chosen people" based on their own particular silly religious book.

[DBW]

Considering the Corporation's hostile view of Iran, I decided this morning look around the net to see what I could see about the place. Interesting to say the least. Some beautiful looking women for certain.

http://www.pbase.com/k_amj/throughout_iran&page=all

http://imgur.com/a/OrkDh

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnKYS-bIHYY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtELk8S3dhU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D61uriEGsIM


People are people and all created by the same Creator. None is more special than the other (in spite of references to "chosen people" in some silly religious book). Politicians the world over are batsheet crazy, regardless of the invisible lines on maps.

You do realize that the leadership in Iran believes they are "chosen people" based on their own particular silly religious book.

Yes. Which is why I quantified my comment with "batsheet' crazy as applied to all those who are in government, regardless of where that government is seated.

As a deist, I view all religions as idiotic and silly when compared to the evidence of God as presented by his handiwork (as opposed to the supposed "revelation" of Him through some nutty book). I appreciate people for who they are, not what religion they embrace. Trust me, my parents were devout christians which I was raised under. I still love my mother and we get along fine. My wife is christian and we love each other as well in spite of the differences. My wife of course has a difficult time getting past her paradigm to understand deism, whereas I, raised under christian doctrine, completely understand where she is at. We do get into some good discussions to say the least.

During the course of the past ten years I've traveled in excess of a 1.5 million miles and have met a diverse range of people in the US & Canada. I have family and friends spread across both countries. I always interact with people as people. I treat people kindly until they do something to warrant my ignoring them completely.

The point of my post is that I wanted to have a look at the people of Iran, not it's government... in spite of idiots in our government demanding we bomb the stuff out of them for no reason.

[DBW]

Considering the Corporation's hostile view of Iran, I decided this morning look around the net to see what I could see about the place. Interesting to say the least. Some beautiful looking women for certain.

http://www.pbase.com/k_amj/throughout_iran&page=all

http://imgur.com/a/OrkDh

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnKYS-bIHYY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtELk8S3dhU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D61uriEGsIM


People are people and all created by the same Creator. None is more special than the other (in spite of references to "chosen people" in some silly religious book). Politicians the world over are batsheet crazy, regardless of the invisible lines on maps.

Not sure I can agree with that comment.
This comment I TOTALLY agree with.

As for the pictures, here I sit twiddling my thumbs as this slow dial up takes it's sweet butt time.

Joe

Dialup. Must suck.

What part of people are people do you disagree with? Even the Declaration of Independence makes the point that all men were created equally by the Creator. That's not to say we all have the same opportunity. Some fail, some succeed. I'm fine with that as in my life I've done a bit of both.

Since I was raised up under christian doctrine (specifically the evangelical baptist denomination) I was unable to accept that the writers of the bible, writing of their own people, were chosen by God above me or anyone else. This contradicted reason as I can find no evidence that God created some superior to others. Unless of course one accepts the words in bible as fact, but which contradicts the evidence. So, either the evidence is wrong or the book is wrong. Since the evidence is creation, then it would be reasonable to say the book is wrong.

[Grizz]

This contradicted reason as I can find no evidence that God created some superior to others. Unless of course one accepts the words in bible as fact, but which contradicts the evidence. So, either the evidence is wrong or the book is wrong. Since the evidence is creation, then it would be reasonable to say the book is wrong.

wrong, Wrong, WRONG. You do not understand the Book or Christianity, or God, or His creation, because if you did, you could not make this statement.

Josh McDowell wrote two books, Evidence That Demands a Verdict, and More Evidence That Demands a Verdict, that fully counter your belief that the Book is wrong, and show why the Book is 100% reliable and trustWorthy, based on unimpeachable evidence.

I hope you realize and understand that when you reject God's owner's manual you reject God and Christ in one motion? Of course it's your choice, but it's not something to do glibly or lightly.

After all, you will soon meet Christ fact-to-face. I encourage you to take it more seriously than the pull quote suggests. Read McDowell's books and see if you can maintain your position in light of the Evidence.

I'm pulling for ya

Grizz

[DBW]

This contradicted reason as I can find no evidence that God created some superior to others. Unless of course one accepts the words in bible as fact, but which contradicts the evidence. So, either the evidence is wrong or the book is wrong. Since the evidence is creation, then it would be reasonable to say the book is wrong.

wrong, Wrong, WRONG. You do not understand the Book or Christianity, or God, or His creation, because if you did, you could not make this statement.

Josh McDowell wrote two books, Evidence That Demands a Verdict, and More Evidence That Demands a Verdict, that fully counter your belief that the Book is wrong, and show why the Book is 100% reliable and trustWorthy, based on unimpeachable evidence.

I hope you realize and understand that when you reject God's owner's manual you reject God and Christ in one motion? Of course it's your choice, but it's not something to do glibly or lightly.

After all, you will soon meet Christ fact-to-face. I encourage you to take it more seriously than the pull quote suggests. Read McDowell's books and see if you can maintain your position in light of the Evidence.

I'm pulling for ya

Grizz

The problem is that we aren't using the same benchmark as a starting point. Christians use the bible. I use the natural world that God created.

I can gather a christian, muslim, jew or atheist in a group outdoors. I can ask what color is the sky? What color is snow? Is water wet? Do objects fall downward? Does spring follow winter? And on and on. Guess what. Each and every one of them, in spite of their religious differences will all provide the same, identical answer. This is proof that God is the creator of nature as He instituted the natural laws of nature that dictate the operation of the universe. These truths transcend religious viewpoints. This is indicative that nature is God's revelation of himself to man. Nature is God.

I can then gather a dozen, two dozen or three dozen christians together and ask them to tell me what a passage of bible text means and get different answers from all of them. This is indicative that the bible is incapable of conveying God's message to mankind succinctly and definitively. It is vague. It requires "faith". And even the faithful of the same religion can't agree, whether they be christian, jew or muslim.

Nature is God's only revelation of himself to mankind. Holy texts simply fall short.

As I so often ask my mother and wife... what part of my knowing God exists based on the observation of His creation and the ability to apply reason, which He wired into my brain... don't you understand? Neither has ever given me an answer except for the one you state... that without knowing Jesus and accepting his death on the cross, I'll not come to be with God. So billions of inhabitants of the world, including the many in the old testament, that never heard of jesus are in hell and will forever be apart from the Creator simply because they didn't know jesus.

We'll have to agree to disagree until we can agree upon a benchmark to discuss the question.

[AJMD429]

I can gather a christian, muslim, jew or atheist in a group outdoors. I can ask what color is the sky? What color is snow? Is water wet? Do objects fall downward? Does spring follow winter? And on and on. Guess what. Each and every one of them, in spite of their religious differences will all provide the same, identical answer. This is proof that God is the creator of nature as He instituted the natural laws of nature that dictate the operation of the universe. These truths transcend religious viewpoints. This is indicative that nature is God's revelation of himself to man. Nature is God.

I can then gather a dozen, two dozen or three dozen christians together and ask them to tell me what a passage of bible text means and get different answers from all of them. This is indicative that the bible is incapable of conveying God's message to mankind succinctly and definitively. It is vague. It requires "faith". And even the faithful of the same religion can't agree, whether they be christian, jew or muslim.

Nature is God's only revelation of himself to mankind. Holy texts simply fall short.

Good points. The Holy Texts do serve good purpose, but as they are transcribed and written and translated and taught by MEN, they are never going to fully reflect the capital-T "Truth" completely.

Human imperfection permeates all that comes between God and the Sunday sermons and classroom. That doesn't mean it's not real, nor meaningful, nor vital to embrace, but it does mean that most of our quibbling over the 'details' is ridiculous.

[44-40 Willy]

Looks to me like someone came in here looking for an arguement. I'll pass on giving it to him.

[Grizz]

The two of you are the ones who are making things up. What you are calling christians are apparently NOT what God calls Christians.

You can oppose the Truth, with a Capital T as much as you want. But the Truth is revealed in the person and work of Jesus Christ, WHO ROSE FROM THE DEAD to certify all of his claims.

This is only disputed by the lost. You are free to choose to be numbered among them. You are also free to repent, that is, to change your mind. I hope you do.

The Bible that you are disparaging is Almighty God's own revelation of Himself to mankind, personalized in the incarnate Christ.

God will honor truly heartfelt seeking out of His will in Scripture. He will hold fools in derision. Your choice.

You might ask God, humbly and sincerely, to reveal Himself to you through the Bible. It has worked for millions of others, it can work for you too.

You actually sound like someone who has NEVER READ THE BIBLE with an inkling of understanding.

About your assertion that you can assemble dozens of christians and get hundreds of interpretations of Scripture. Only from non-believers or completely uninformed believers. One of the greatly interesting things to me has been that every one who truly trusts Christ for Salvation has virtually the same understanding of all the terms and terminology pertaining to their faith.

You disparage "faith" but God says that without faith it is impossible to please God. God said Abraham believed God and it was counted to him as righteousness. The Bible is not a coded book with secret meanings. The Bible supplies its own answers to the questions we have, and is not subject to private interpretation. Those you propose to question whom you imagine all have a different answer to the meaning of a scripture are not the ones who are trusting Christ in faith. You've selected a group of unbelievers.

You might endeavor to understand what is meant by God's Holiness. If you knew Him you wouldn't be calling Him a liar.

Are you are a seeker after Truth, as in Christ's declaration: "I AM the way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to God but via Me."? John Chapter 14 Verse 6. I sincerely hope you are. Here is the benchmark: we will all meet Jesus face-to-face very soon. That is where this same Jesus said he will separate the sheep from the goats. It's a binary proposition.

There absolutely is absolute true Truth and it is readily available to anyone who cares to find it.


nothing but love for ya

Grizz

[DBW]

Grizz, we'll have to agree to disagree as it gets us nowhere. You have your viewpoint, I have mine. I'll continue using reason instead of relying on faith. If your faith serves your purpose, then carry on.

We're getting off the topic of my post, which was to give a glimpse of a nation few of us have knowledge of in this day and age. I found it fascinating.

[C. Cash]

The Jews are God's chosen people. But it is from those same people that he declares His love for all men, through Christ. In response to this, it is Christians that go to places like the middle east, Africa, China...etc., out of love for those that God loves. They forego their money, families, safety, comfort and even their lives to do it. Many are right here mong us. So, Respectfully, you've come to the wrong place to school others about God's love for those in Iran, and your arguement comes too late. It was already settled two thousand years ago on the Cross. For God so loved the world that gave his one and only Son.....

[DBW]

The Jews are God's chosen people. But it is from those same people that he declares His love for all men, through Christ. It is these same Christians that go to places like the middle east, Africa, China...etc., out of love for those that God loves. They forego their money, families, safety, comfort and even their lives to do it. Many are right here mong us. So, Respectfully, you've come to the wrong place to school others about God's love for those in Iran. The argument was settled two thousand years ago on a Cross. For God so loved the world that gave his one and only Son.....

Comment from Jew who converted to Orthodox Christianity...

http://youtu.be/k9trCus2SG0

And to correct your comment about my attempt to school others about God's love for those in Iran, where you came up with that is beyond me. I only spoke of all people being created by the Creator. No mention of "love" as you claim was made in any of my replies.

And again, we'll have to agree to disagree. I remain respectful to members of this forum, but view religion as fair game. If this offends, then ignore the thread which was simply about getting a glimpse into a nation I know little about. As one who views religion as coercive and manipulative (like government), I have no use for it. I seek truth and discount all religions as obstacles in obtaining truth.

[FWiedner]

As one who views religion as coercive and manipulative (like government)...

IMO, religion and nationalism are very much the same flavor of political brainwashing.

We are chosen. Our way is the way. Wrath upon you for your crimes, lack of faith, disobedience, etc.

[Pitchy]

There are many man made veiws that are nothing more than an opinion from man that means nothing
Nothing wrong about appreciating Gods creation but it will not save you from spending eternity in Hatties.
In fact before Christ people would look at the things God created and knew that there had to be something bigger than man that made it all.
It`s the Holy Spirit that comes into ones heart and draws you too God and now to Christ.
It`s all about the Spirit not the flesh or earth, they will all pass away and be nothing.

[ndcowboy]

Three notes:

1) We need to be sure to worship the creator and not the creation.
Romans 1:25: They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised.

2) Without Faith, we have nothing.
Hebrews 11:6: And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

3) Ideas that are strictly human and not scripture based will lead to destruction:
Proverbs 3:5-6: Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will direct your paths.

[mikld]

The two of you are the ones who are making things up. What you are calling christians are apparently NOT what God calls Christians.

You can oppose the Truth, with a Capital T as much as you want. But the Truth is revealed in the person and work of Jesus Christ, WHO ROSE FROM THE DEAD to certify all of his claims.

This is only disputed by the lost. You are free to choose to be numbered among them. You are also free to repent, that is, to change your mind. I hope you do.

The Bible that you are disparaging is Almighty God's own revelation of Himself to mankind, personalized in the incarnate Christ.

God will honor truly heartfelt seeking out of His will in Scripture. He will hold fools in derision. Your choice.

You might ask God, humbly and sincerely, to reveal Himself to you through the Bible. It has worked for millions of others, it can work for you too.

You actually sound like someone who has NEVER READ THE BIBLE with an inkling of understanding.

About your assertion that you can assemble dozens of christians and get hundreds of interpretations of Scripture. Only from non-believers or completely uninformed believers. One of the greatly interesting things to me has been that every one who truly trusts Christ for Salvation has virtually the same understanding of all the terms and terminology pertaining to their faith.

You disparage "faith" but God says that without faith it is impossible to please God. God said Abraham believed God and it was counted to him as righteousness. The Bible is not a coded book with secret meanings. The Bible supplies its own answers to the questions we have, and is not subject to private interpretation. Those you propose to question whom you imagine all have a different answer to the meaning of a scripture are not the ones who are trusting Christ in faith. You've selected a group of unbelievers.

You might endeavor to understand what is meant by God's Holiness. If you knew Him you wouldn't be calling Him a liar.

Are you are a seeker after Truth, as in Christ's declaration: "I AM the way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to God but via Me."? John Chapter 14 Verse 6. I sincerely hope you are. Here is the benchmark: we will all meet Jesus face-to-face very soon. That is where this same Jesus said he will separate the sheep from the goats. It's a binary proposition.

There absolutely is absolute true Truth and it is readily available to anyone who cares to find it.


nothing but love for ya

Grizz

I wish I could have said it this good. Amen, Bro Grizz, amen!

BTW, all those pics look like they were posted by The Iranian Board of Tourism...

[Grizz]

Grizz, we'll have to agree to disagree as it gets us nowhere. You have your viewpoint, I have mine. I'll continue using reason instead of relying on faith. If your faith serves your purpose, then carry on.

We're getting off the topic of my post, which was to give a glimpse of a nation few of us have knowledge of in this day and age. I found it fascinating.

DBW,

With respect, I DO NOT HAVE TO AGREE TO DISAGREE.

You are free to challenge the Bible, or me, or Christ, or anyone else you choose to negate. But don't fool yourself into thinking that someone who is loved by Christ and who knows Him personally and intimately is precluded from defending Him when He is attacked with ignorance published as valid information.

I agree we got off the topic of Iran and I appreciated the images for what they are.

It is you who took the thread off topic by your follow up assertions.

Iran, by the way, is sworn to eradicate the Nation of Israel, to destroy every descendant of Abraham living there. Iran is the supplier of weapons to Hezbollah who are fighting the proxy ground war against Israel. They curse Israel. That is not the side of God that I want to reside on.

God has sworn to protect and defend Israel to the death. The death of all her antagonists. This is a covenant, and God has more than proved that He keeps His promises.

The promise to His opponents is INFINITELY opposite to the Blessings He promises to those who love Him.

I encourage you to be a little less certain of your imagination and to make an honest inquiry into Scripture while you are still able to do so.

Prayers UP for ya that Grace will abound in you

[DBW]

How about you argue with a fellow christian instead. Not worth my time...

http://youtu.be/k9trCus2SG0

[AJMD429]

Many years ago a wise woman told me "Beware worshipping a 'god' who is made in man's image, and those who pretend that their god made 'man' in His image..." I always keep this in mind when 'religious debates' start up.

BOTTOM LINE is that we are all far more endangered in THIS earthly life by those who would create political and economic and racial and religious strife, and use it to promote Statism, than we are in our afterlife, for not curtsying to the proper god in the proper way. The true God won't be bothered by such trivialities as we humans typically argue over.

[Grizz]

How about you argue with a fellow christian instead. Not worth my time...

I'm not arguing with anyone. I'm a messenger and I am telling you the Truth. There will be a final exam.

The true God won't be bothered by such trivialities as we humans typically argue over.

Actually the True God is in fact the Man Jesus Christ. It amazes me to see unbelievers quoted as reference to inform opinion, and that opinion is diametrically opposite to the person God revealed Himself to be.

Here is my motive for responding, it is instruction given to the followers of Christ, in several translations:

2Co 10:5

American King James Version

Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

New American Standard Bible (©1995)

We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ,

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)

And we pull down reasonings and every high thing that is exalted against the knowledge of God, and we take all minds prisoner to the obedience of The Messiah.

Webster's Bible Translation

Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

I ain't too proud to beg:

Please sit down with the Gospel of John and read it seriously as a love letter that God sent to you 2 personally, and everybody else who may be listening. Ask God, the one who made everything, that is, Christ, to reveal Himself to you if indeed the Bible is His word. Ask God to answer your questions. Ask God to teach you. Ask sincerely. Ask humbly. That your understanding might be illuminated. The God of the Bible is the real deal. The god you invent in your imagination cannot save you, forgive you, or give you eternal life.

I am willing to bet that neither of you can honestly say you have done this, yet you are both crashing toward a personal interview that will be guided and direct to some extent by the contents of that short easy to read book.

Please please please make serious inquiry.

Prayers UP for y'all

Grizz

[DBW]

Grizz, you have no clue as to who I am or my life experiences.

At the age of 5, my parents came to accept Jesus as their savior. This started my exposure to the bible, which by the way my parents insisted upon being the KJV so that nothing was lost in translation (discounting that it itself was not the original Hebrew and Greek). Every Sunday morning I was in Sunday school, followed by Sunday worship. And then in the evening, Sunday night services. Prayer meeting on Wednesday. At the age of 12, I "accepted" Jesus. I know christian doctrine. I'm quite familiar with the bible from front to back. I've studied it, read it through a few times, know and understand what Jesus said. My understanding of the bible is as high or not higher than most practicing christians as I am also a student of history.

At the age of 36 a life changing event occurred that began the process of coming to really understand God. I studied the bible intensely. But found it lacking in providing the truth that I sought.

One night, on an exit ramp in the middle of nowhere I pulled my Kenworth over and stepped out. It was a clear night. Warm. I look upward at the sky. And studied the brightness of the stars. And it came to me then and there. That those stars were proof to me that God existed by virtue that they existed. The revelation came without the need to read words in a book. It came as a simple understanding that those stars were God's method of telling mankind from day one that He existed. I understood the significance of the fact that before man developed the ability to put down oral words on paper, God had already provided his word of himself to mankind. Nature was God's book, his only revelation to mankind.

I've read the bible since then and found it lacking. It is filled with evil. It is the words of men, who have taking axioms of common sense and through translation and rearrangement, crafted a book that portrays itself to be God speaking instead of what it really was designed to do... be a tool of control. I feel no love emanating from it. I feel evil coming from it. A feeling I've only gotten in one other place in my life... Washington DC.

Since that night on that exit ramp I've began to study the world around me. Nature. People. How things happen and transpire. How nature works in complete unison to sustain life. And end life. Yet life endures. All without the help of the bible or other book.

I have no doubt that the world I live upon is God's creation. That the planets and galaxies beyond are His. I derive my morality not from a book, but on an understanding that God is perfect. The bible is filled with descriptions of an imperfect god... one prone to jealousy, anger, wrath, vengeance. One that relishes and thrives on the death of innocents, be they a lamb or his supposed perfect son. And I shudder that my parents, although meaning well, subjected myself and my siblings to the bloody horror stories of the bible. Of murder, genocide, fornication, pedophilia, incest, rape... and more. Any parent or grandparent who willingly submits children to such a book as the bible are guilty of child abuse.

I know you mean well. However, you have no clue to who I am, what I think (this forum and my posts are only the tip of that iceberg) or what I believe. Having said that, I believe God exists. And for me, this is sufficient. I'm in awe of creation and the One who created it. All by simply reading His book... nature.

The only bible's in my house are the ones my wife has. In respect to her, I allow them to stay. Every one that I had was thrown into the garbage and now are truly serving a meaningful purpose, providing food for worms.

[ndcowboy]

Grizz, you have no clue as to who I am or my life experiences.


I've read the bible since then and found it lacking. It is filled with evil. It is the words of men, who have taking axioms of common sense and through translation and rearrangement, crafted a book that portrays itself to be God speaking instead of what it really was designed to do... be a tool of control. I feel no love emanating from it. I feel evil coming from it. A feeling I've only gotten in one other place in my life... Washington DC.


Having said that, I believe God exists. And for me, this is sufficient. I'm in awe of creation and the One who created it. All by simply reading His book... nature.

Here's the problem with the bolded quotes.
1) Scripture is not the words of men.
2 Timothy 3:16: All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness

2) Believing God exists is not sufficient. Even the bad guys believe in God.
James 2:19: You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder.

Grizz is correct. He's not picking a fight with you; he is worried about your eternal soul. Someday when we meet Jesus, we'll have to explain why we didn't believe His Word.

[DBW]

Grizz, you have no clue as to who I am or my life experiences.


I've read the bible since then and found it lacking. It is filled with evil. It is the words of men, who have taking axioms of common sense and through translation and rearrangement, crafted a book that portrays itself to be God speaking instead of what it really was designed to do... be a tool of control. I feel no love emanating from it. I feel evil coming from it. A feeling I've only gotten in one other place in my life... Washington DC.


Having said that, I believe God exists. And for me, this is sufficient. I'm in awe of creation and the One who created it. All by simply reading His book... nature.

Here's the problem with the bolded quotes.
1) Scripture is not the words of men.
2 Timothy 3:16: All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness

2) Believing God exists is not sufficient. Even the bad guys believe in God.
James 2:19: You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder.

Grizz is correct. He's not picking a fight with you; he is worried about your eternal soul. Someday when we meet Jesus, we'll have to explain why we didn't believe His Word.

If I have a soul, let me worry about it. Jesus was as much a man as I, therefore, when I die, we won't be meeting. As I pointed out, the bible is filled with common sense axioms that conveniently support it's agenda... control.

Again, we are not using the same benchmark as a starting point. I discount the bible. Grizz and you don't. Therefore, we'll continue going in circles until we agree upon a benchmark. As far as I'm concerned, the only benchmark that can reasonably be used is one that applies to all, regardless of religious viewpoint, is the one that we all live in... nature.

I know you guys mean well. So does my mother, my wife and a couple of my older siblings. My oldest brother is also a deist and together we've been dealing with the bible believers in the family for decades. If they are unable to "save" us, you guys haven't got a chance with me on this forum.

[Bill in Oregon]

DBW, back to your original post, Iran is indeed a beautiful country with a rich and ancient history. Frankly, I don't think we would be in the pickle we are today had it not been for our short-sighted Cold War meddling in the affairs of another country. I blame John Foster Dulles and Eisenhower as much for the seeds they sowed in the 1950s as much as I do the bitter fruit of those seeds, the Ayatollah Khomeini.
Before the fall of the Shah, we had quite a few Iranian kids as students at the University of Oregon, early 1970s. They were all terrified of being spied upon by the shah's secret police.

[DBW]

DBW, back to your original post, Iran is indeed a beautiful country with a rich and ancient history. Frankly, I don't think we would be in the pickle we are today had it not been for our short-sighted Cold War meddling in the affairs of another country. I blame John Foster Dulles and Eisenhower as much for the seeds they sowed in the 1950s as much as I do the bitter fruit of those seeds, the Ayatollah Khomeini.
Before the fall of the Shah, we had quite a few Iranian kids as students at the University of Oregon, early 1970s. They were all terrified of being spied upon by the shah's secret police.

I was particularly interested in Rick Steves' documentary on Iran. Very enlightening... which was the only point of this thread.

[Grizz]

Thanks for opening up some. It is good and it is Scriptural that you know of God's existence via His creation.

It is true that we cannot save you. Only God can save you. Jesus is God.

The benchmark is His resurrection. Christ's resurrection validates His words, His plan, and His future.

To acknowledge that God exists but to try to define him in a format that is more pleasing to you is actually idolatry. The things that repel you that you attribute to God are in fact the result of sin that separates us from God's kingdom. They are the result of men choosing to go their own way, be Deists if you will. The depth of God's love for you is the extent He went to on the cross to save you. Because, you cannot obtain God's forgiveness, you cannot be justified before God without Christ. It is not possible. We will in fact all acknowledge that God exists for eternity. It's the forwarding address that's in question in this life.

Thanks for your consideration in opening up the dialog.

Hoping for the best

Grizz

[Griff]

Strayed far and wide of the original post? Not.

God created the heavens and earth. Then man. Yes, in his image. For we have the ability to reason. All too often to our detriment. The very first full time occupation outside hunting and gathering known to man is that of the "witch doctor". My personal opinion is that this was history's first truly lazy person. Without trying to imbibe this "person" with evil intent, let's just speculate that his intent was to provide for himself without the inconvenience of labor. How, by providing the explanations for that which the rest of us cannot. Be he right, wrong, or just a 50/50 of those, our history's first known attempt to control our environment.

Every known prophet, sage, priest, inman, or politician since is descended from this one man.

I am a born again Christian. I believe that Jesus is the truth, the light and THE way. However, I refuse to allow another to interprete the Bible for me. I have read it several times... The one truth I have found, I hold dear to me... IT is the rock to which I cling in this swirling sea of opinion, interpretation and misdirection that is often organized religion.

I've also studied Judaism, Catholicism, Hindu, Islam, Budhism, Mormons, and Christian Scientists. They each have their fine AND, not so-fine points. As for Christianity, how can one text spawn so many conflicting religious beliefs and sacraments if it were not for the unholy influence of Man? I don't care if you're Anglican, Baptist, Catholic, Episcopalian, Lutheran, Mormon, Presbyterian or even 7th Day Adventist, it's how you treat your fellow man that influences me as to your character. And character is the final arbiter of any man. We are human, a flawed entity from our creation. Flawed in that we have free choice, and reason; but it is character that separates us from, and stands between us and evil.

For those that go to foriegn, even hostile lands to spread the Word of God & Christianity, you have my undying respect and gratitude. For I am unable. (Unwilling is just as apt a verb, but I'm being charitable). For in all the Bible, that one truth, if ferreted out will determine your fate when you stand before God in his final judgement. And if you could spread no word other than that one truth, you will have done a great service to mankind.

Just as Los Angeles is a great city and metropolis, and in my experience, Southern California as near to heaven on earth as I can imagine, Iran appears in pictures to be the same. However, as with LA and SoCal, people have made it a mess. Yes, DBW, one on one, IME, people ARE the same all over the globe... at least when you have nothing they want and they feel they have nothing you want. Individually, I believe we all want to be liked, appreciated for who and what we are, even when we may not share a basic ideaology... but together in groups? Then it gets real chancy!

[DBW]

Once more, back to the original intent of this post. More photos:

http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2012 ... an/100219/

http://www.pbase.com/dflynch/iran&page=all

[J Miller]

DBW,

Well, first off I'm frustrated and here's why. We've been using Firefox for about 10 years or so now and until recently never had trouble.
Then several months ago my wife's Face Book pages quit loading. She switched to IE and they opened up.
Today after many tries to open your link to the pics on Firefox, I gave up and tried IE. Boom, they opened right up. The page is loading now on IE while I'm posting this on Firefox.


Joe

[C. Cash]

Many of us come from adversity and/or abuse to arrive at our beliefs. It was out of being kept away from The Gospel by my parents, my trust of no one due to violence and abandonment in our home that in large part lead me to investigate the claims of Christ and the Bible. It was forbidden fruit which made it attractive, but it had to have the plausibility of truth. It also had the appeal that there is a real Father who does not leave his children. After many years of wandering, poking, prodding, pulling and tugging at the Bible, the history, the archaeology, the science...etc, I accepted Christ at age 22. I am still a natural doubter of all things "told" to me, but having investigated it thoroughly, am firm in believing the Bible's claims and the ultimate purpose: God's love of his creation and plan of Salvation through Christ. When you see your kids are gonna die, a Father offers up His life so that they do not. It's built in to most of us in the same way. You would do anything to save your hildren. You are right that He is perfect and holy. His creation is magnificent indeed. One of my favorite verses is Psalm 19:
1 The heavens declare the glory of God;
    the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
2 Day after day they pour forth speech;
    night after night they reveal knowledge.
3 They have no speech, they use no words;
    no sound is heard from them.
4 Yet their voice goes out into all the earth,
    their words to the ends of the world.
I am sorry if I sounded a bit defensive in my other posts. I get that way, but I only meant to speak plainly to your point at the end of your post. Blessings and peace to you friend.

[bdhold]

Of course Persia is a beautiful country. They gave us a great portion of our culture. They gave us coffee. They ruled the world before Greece and Rome.
It's not a question of people, it's a question of government. There aren't a lot of American expatriates in Iran.
There is a first-century Christian church in Iran, and they're being persecuted and killed by the Iranian government.
There is a huge number of Iranian expatriates in the US - they're here on political asylum. They become proud American citizens in a free land. Many have left their families behind.
Odds are you eat half your meals out at restaurants owned by Iranian expatriates.
There is also a strong revolutionary underground movement in Iran (and it means the opposite of the "democratic revolutionary" movement supported in the mideast by our state department).
Blaming judeo-christian culture for the Iranian government is beyond ignorant.

As far as your original intent, that was made beyond clear in your opening post. You got exactly what you asked for.
Not a recognition of your open-minded world view, but a reaction to your disdain for christians, which you believe are the same thing. Christianity is not the religion that openly plans to rule the world - that is Islam.

[Pitchy]

Many of us come from adversity and/or abuse to arrive at our beliefs. It was out of being kept away from The Gospel by my parents, my trust of no one due to violence and abandonment in our home that in large part lead me to investigate the claims of Christ and the Bible. It was forbidden fruit which made it attractive, but it had to have the plausibility of truth. It also had the appeal that there is a real Father who does not leave his children. After many years of wandering, poking, prodding, pulling and tugging at the Bible, the history, the archaeology, the science...etc, I accepted Christ at age 22. I am still a natural doubter of all things "told" to me, but having investigated it thoroughly, am firm in believing the Bible's claims and the ultimate purpose: God's love of his creation and plan of Salvation through Christ. When you see your kids are gonna die, a Father offers up His life so that they do not. It's built in to most of us in the same way. You would do anything to save your hildren. You are right that He is perfect and holy. His creation is magnificent indeed. One of my favorite verses is Psalm 19:
1 The heavens declare the glory of God;
    the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
2 Day after day they pour forth speech;
    night after night they reveal knowledge.
3 They have no speech, they use no words;
    no sound is heard from them.
4 Yet their voice goes out into all the earth,
    their words to the ends of the world.
I am sorry if I sounded a bit defensive in my other posts. I get that way, but I only meant to speak plainly to your point at the end of your post. Blessings and peace to you friend.

[handirifle]

first off, let me say that the Apostle Paul (a Jew), who wrote the majority of the books in the bible, was not, for the most part writing to his people, he was writing to and starting churches in the gentiles. He started off preaching the Gospel to the Jews, but they like you, rejected the Gospel, and so Paul took the Gospel to the Gentiles, where it was widley accepted. Eventually many Jews did convert and accept the Gospel message, but the bible is not written just for them, but for all people. As you correctly pointed out, all people that accept His message are accepted by God, regardless of their past beliefs. The punishment for rejection of the same message is also universal.

James 2:19 says it better than I ever could.

"You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder."

It is not enough to believe there is a god, as you have correctly pointed out, He makes Himself know through creation, but not completely. He makes us aware that there is one God, but it is up to us to seek Him out.

I pray you can someday soon seek Him out, He who has manifested Himself to us through His Son Christ.

When I was 21, I listened to the woman who would eventually become my wife, of over 38 years now, and I sought Him out and asked Him to become my personal Savior. My eyes were truly opened that day. Once you accept Him, the Holy Spirit will indwell you, as they did on the day of Pentacost, and He, the Helper, will open your eyes to many of Gods secrets.

[Dan 444]

Grizz, well said.

Dan

[bdhold]

the bait was thrown out, and you guys bit it.
Christian rhetoric - not even God's Word - is going to convince someone on the internet.
Truth without Spirit is not convincing, and while you read what you wrote with your own spirit and the Spirit that lives in you, he reads it with his spirit, and it convinces him of his right and your closed-mindedness.
This is why you are feared by moderate and independent voters, and why we have Bozo and socialism for a second round.
They think your goal is to arrest women for past abortions. I know its not, but they don't, and they're easily convinced.
It's not bible, but, preach the gospel in everything you do, and use words only when you have to.
When people see Christ, it's the love they see in you, not what they read.
Billy Graham was a great evangelist - but Franklin Graham is a better one.
God bless you.

[harry]

If you guys want to preach why not start your own thread, the guy doesn't want your two cents.

[Grizz]

Hey Harry,

attendance is optional; don't let the door whack you on the way out.

[C. Cash]

deleted

[harry]

Hey Harry,

attendance is optional; don't let the door whack you on the way out.

So why don't you take your own advice. If some one took over one of your threads you would be fit to be tied. So I have to follow your belives or go somewhere else, guess you got that statement from the same book.

[Hobie]

Harry,

Some people just have those days when they can't for the life of them stay on topic. Somedays I wander so badly I sound the way that Family Circle kid's trip to the mailbox looks.

[Grizz]

No, it's very simple Harry

Attendance is optional. If I don't like what you write I flip the page. If you don't like what I write, flip the page.

If Paco doesn't like what I write he just deletes it.

Whining isn't a prerequisite for the course material.

Grizz

[harry]

No, it's very simple Harry

Attendance is optional. If I don't like what you write I flip the page. If you don't like what I write, flip the page.

If Paco doesn't like what I write he just deletes it.

Whining isn't a prerequisite for the course material.

Grizz

See your wrong again, I'm trying to read through this thread about Iran. So why don't you take your BS and start your own thread.

[Grizz]

Well, right now the temper tantrum is more entertaining.

[bdhold]

I think Paul said something to Timothy about staying out of pointless arguments - and he called that choice wisdom.

Jesus also said something about the Pharisees who stood in the street and prayed in Many Words.

[Pitchy]

Ephesians 4:26
Be angry, yet do not sin." Do not let the sun set while you are still angry.

All in fun fellers, as a good friend keeps reminding me by saying, " No need get in a big toot"

[Lastmohecken]

If you guys want to preach why not start your own thread, the guy doesn't want your two cents.

The pictures show some beautiful places, but the OP started by trashing the Bible, where else could this thread go? Sure Iran is beautiful, at least some of it, but that doesn't need to lead up to trashing the bible. You can find pictures of beautiful landscapes and people all over the world. It rains on the just as well as the unjust.

When someone starts trashing our Holy Bible, we as Christians are not going to just ignore it.

[FWiedner]

Back in the day I used to date an Iranian girl who had moved to Texas with her older brother who was a former (read that 'deserter') military officer on the run from the Ayatollah. back about 1980.

Man she was pretty, and just the sweetest thing.

Her brother was a man looking over his shoulder. We didn't see eye to eye of a bunch of stuff but we could be straight with each other.

Everybody had to move on.

I wonder if they ever got to go back home... ?

[bdhold]

When someone starts trashing our Holy Bible, we as Christians are not going to just ignore it.

when Jesus talked about turn the other cheek, he didn't mean take physical abuse. The slap in the face was a cliche for taking an insult, and he meant that we as Christians are big enough to take an insult.

[Pitchy]

When someone starts trashing our Holy Bible, we as Christians are not going to just ignore it.

when Jesus talked about turn the other cheek, he didn't mean take physical abuse. The slap in the face was a cliche for taking an insult, and he meant that we as Christians are big enough to take an insult.

And He also taught that if you`ve preached until your blue in the face and people won`t change to dust the dust off your sandles and move on.
I`m all for deffending our Bible and faith but if we start a war over it we`re no better than others that do the same.