New Winchester (Miroku) 1873

Cimarron Red · Post by **Cimarron Red** » Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:48 pm

If anyone has already made a post about this, I missed it. Sorry for another on this gun.

A Winchester/Miroku 1873 with no tang safety. No mention of a rebounding hammer, but I'd guess it has one. MSRP $1299.99. If they made one with a case colored receiver, 24" octagon barrel, and PG stock with checkering, I'd be in line for one. .38/.357 only so far

http://www.winchesterguns.com/support/f ... g-Page.pdf

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:51 pm

In one of the little pics in the upper right it does say something about "a new firing pin striker block". I can't read what it said under that.

Other than that it's just another expensive replica to me.

Joe

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:02 pm

The first time I find it in 38wcf, me and the credit card is gonna have some splainin to do to the bookkeeper

Hagler · Post by **Hagler** » Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:24 pm

...here is what the inset photographs & captions look like:

Shawn

Ji in Hawaii · Post by **Ji in Hawaii** » Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:39 pm

If it's a Miroku made product instead of an Uberti it could be the best made 1873 Winchester ever! (I know... SACRILEGE!)

...and worth every penny of the $1299 asking price.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:24 pm

Ji,
quality is quality............... there is no substitute
regardless of who makes it!

Rube Burrows · Post by **Rube Burrows** » Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:10 pm

Cimarron Red wrote:If anyone has already made a post about this, I missed it. Sorry for another on this gun.

A Winchester/Miroku 1873 with no tang safety. No mention of a rebounding hammer, but I'd guess it has one. MSRP $1299.99. If they made one with a case colored receiver, 24" octagon barrel, and PG stock with checkering, I'd be in line for one. .38/.357 only so far

http://www.winchesterguns.com/support/f ... g-Page.pdf

Man....I will have to have one of those. Esp if it dont have all the lawyer stuff on it.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:25 pm

I won't even consider one in a magnum cartridge, no matter how good it would be.
I'll wait till they make it in 44-40 then think about it.

Joe

barbarossa · Post by **barbarossa** » Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:33 pm

I would imagine that if it takes off a sporting rifle version will come next along with 44-40.I think this one is aimed at the cowboy action crowd thats why the 357 chambering.

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:35 pm

It's a darned nice looking firearm.

kaschi · Post by **kaschi** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:28 am

I'd like one in 44-40 also. They should incorporate this kind of firing pin block in their 86s and 92s instead of the tang set up.

buckeyeshooter · Post by **buckeyeshooter** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:42 am

Another buyer for a 44-40!

Ji in Hawaii · Post by **Ji in Hawaii** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:03 am

Mescalero wrote:Ji,
quality is quality............... there is no substitute
regardless of who makes it!

Some companies just take more pride in their workmanship and thus are more consistent.

Amen to a 44-40 or 38-40 version!

86er · Post by **86er** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:40 am

Similar safety block for the hammer as the Henry RA BB.

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:58 am

Mescalero wrote:Ji,
quality is quality............... there is no substitute
regardless of who makes it!

Agreed!

And another vote for one in .44-40.

jb

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:26 am

Reds,
If there's anyone who could give that '73 a torture test, it would be you! After all, I saw , shot and handled your 1886 that had something like 12,000 out of it. And then the Browning 1885 with 20,000 out of it. I bet those numbers have climbed since you were here in these parts.

That Miroku '73 would be one that would last, as the Japs, in addition to lopping off heads, sure can build a gun. As for the 38/357 chambering, well, its a good one but sadly, to us old heads, a boring one, I'd like to see the grand old 44 or 38 WCF cartridges in it. But on the other hand, I have been unable to wear out originals built 125+ years ago, so...............this is a gun for the younguns who want to have one gun to last their lifetimes.

Me? My tastes are changing. I like UZI'S

There's a gun auction this Saturday at Wilson's www.wbauction.com and there is another UZI there and I believe it will follow me home. uzi...uzi....uzi.....H & K SP89..........S & W 5" 629.....

-------------------------------Sixgun

Roland · Post by **Roland** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:15 am

I prefer and will choose the Uberti over the Miroku personally. A truer replica of the original design and case colored receiver, also I want one in .44 special.

Rube Burrows · Post by **Rube Burrows** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:32 am

J Miller wrote:I won't even consider one in a magnum cartridge, no matter how good it would be.
I'll wait till they make it in 44-40 then think about it.

Joe

I have an Uberti in .357 and its a great gun. I dont see why this one would be any different. I would love to see a more traditional caliber offered such as the 44-40 or even the 45 Colt.

Rube Burrows · Post by **Rube Burrows** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:35 am

Roland wrote:I prefer and will choose the Uberti over the Miroku personally. A truer replica of the original design and case colored receiver, also I want one in .44 special.

I do agree here that the Uberti offers a more true replica and in many more.....and beautiful versions. Hopefully Miroku will bring out some more versions.....then we can at least have the Winchester name on it.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:16 am

The color cased reciever is a bogus thing added by the Italians. If Winchester ever turned a case colored rifle out of the factory it would of been a special ordered gun.
Blue and standard walnut.. That's a real Winchester.

Cimarron Red · Post by **Cimarron Red** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:02 am

Sixgun,

You know I buy 'em to use 'em!

Yep, this '73 would be much better in the 'dash' calibers, for sure. My preference would be .32-20.

Hey, for a guy who's as hide-bound by tradition as you, an Uzi should be no more than a flight of fancy! Imagine yourself -- dabbling with such mechanical contraptions while your true soul-mates languish in the safe!

COSteve · Post by **COSteve** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:04 am

J Miller wrote:I won't even consider one in a magnum cartridge, no matter how good it would be.
I'll wait till they make it in 44-40 then think about it.

Joe

When you compare the external dimensions of 44-40 and 44 mag they aren't that different save for the 44-40's slight neck taper. They both shoot approximately the same dia bullet (.427" vs .429"), have approximately the same length and diameter cases (1.310" vs 1.285" and .471" dia. vs .457" dia.), and can shoot the same weight range bullets. Seems to me that with the less fragile 44 mag cases being more plentiful, the 44 mag's bullets being more readily available, and both being cheaper to acquire it's a good caliber to select as it gives one the ability to load to a much wider range of performance, even BP level 44-40 velocities. Add to that the fact that the firearm chambered in 44 mag must be considerably stronger to withstand the greatly increased peak pressure levels than one chambered in 44-40 resulting in a more robust design with longer life expectancy when using mid to upper power level 44 mag and I think that it is a better choice overall.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:31 am

Steve,

While all you say is true in those regards, I'm not convinced the 1873 toggle link design can withstand that pressure level cartridge without damage or excess wear for any length of time.

This is one rifle design I really believe should be kept to the old black powder level cartridges.

Since I've never heard or read of an exhaustive test report on an 1873 chambered for and using the .44 Mag round, all I have to go buy is the manufacturers claims. They've made mistakes before.

I believe I'll err on the side of caution this time.

Joe

rodeo kid · Post by **rodeo kid** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:35 am

Well, Red, thanks for the info, I just went to the Winchester site, and it sure is pretty. But now I have a quandry. I did have a model 92 large loop carbine on my wish list for my next lever action. I now have to decide if I should elevate the the 1873 to the front of the line. Finding either one may be the problem. Oh and Joe Miller, the Winchester 92 is avaiable in .44-40 if you can get over your lack of love for these Miroku made Winchesters.

I don't know if you have ever handled one, but they are very well made and finished. God Bless.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:39 am

rodeo kid,

It's not so much my dislike of Miroku made firearms, but of the rebounding hammers and tang safeties that I despise. I don't care for the word Winchester on the Japanese made guns, but that unto itself isn't a deal breaker. The added lawyered up modifications is.

Joe

Post by **Old Savage** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:52 am

This may be on the short list! Looks great - safety won't bother me - I shoot them however they are.

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:14 am

I wonder about the wood to metal fit. The Italians do it really nice often times whereas Miroku seems to use computers that get it close, very close, but not perfect the way hand fitted antique Winchesters were or even the Italian replicas often are. Of course the rest of the Italian finish can often times set your teeth on edge...

At any rate, I like Steve's point about .44 mag in this gun. Why shoot full house loads? Load up .44 mag cases with Holy Black or Blackhorn 209 or Trailboss or whatever! Sounds like a lot of fun to me.

Hey, can a .44 mag chamber be reamed out to .44-40 without having to set the barrel back?

In the mean time, my Beretta works just fine for me!

Oly

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:30 am

Oly,

One really good reason not to shoot black powder out a 44 Mag case is blow back. The 44-40 is a tapered semi bottle necked case that seals the chambers very well with black powder.
Straight walled cases such as the 44 Mag and 45 Colt ( I have lots of black powder experience with that one) often do not expand the cases to seal the chambers. With that you get powder blown back in to the action and sometimes your face. BTDT.

Then that makes cleaning all the more important.

That's one reason I can think of.

Besides, what in the world do you have against the 44-40?

Joe

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:49 am

Yep, .38/.357 is most assuredly geared toward the cowboy action market. With the loss of value on the dollar, the price differential was never there for Winchester to leap into this market before. With a MSRP of $1299 vs. the $1259-$1337 MSRP of the Uberti, expensive is a relative term. Now, we should all know that what one can be bought for vs. MSRP, all such comparisons are "out-the-window."

I fully expect that the next cowboy match I attend, (hopefully Sunday if I get over this cold... at least I'm at home to be sick), I'll see one. And, if given half a chance, I'll give it a good fondling.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:02 pm

Griff,
make sure you get some fondling for me too.

Cimarron Red · Post by **Cimarron Red** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:56 pm

I've never shot BP in the .44 Mag. or Special, but I have shot many thousands of BP rounds in the .45-70, .38-55 and .45 Colt, and I have yet to experience any blowback. So I doubt you'd get any in the .44 Mag. That said, I am traditionalist enough to prefer any Model '73 I buy to be in an original chambering. And I would opt for the .32-20 as my primary use would be for shooting lever action silhouettes. However, I also appreciate the appeal of the .38-40 and .44-40. As for the ability of the '73 action to handle top pressures generated by stout loads in magnum cartridges, there is no chance that I would shoot such rounds in any '73 I might buy.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:07 pm

Mescalero wrote:Griff,
make sure you fondle me too.

Whoa there! OK, I'm guilty of a few typo changes.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:25 pm

Hey, can a .44 mag chamber be reamed out to .44-40 without having to set the barrel back?

Yes.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:51 pm

Fondle for me!

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:58 pm

I ain't touchin' nothing from now on

It's hard to keep my eye on the Shiloh Sharps with so many great, new JapChesters out there

Arminius · Post by **Arminius** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:21 pm

J Miller wrote:I won't even consider one in a magnum cartridge, no matter how good it would be.
I'll wait till they make it in 44-40 then think about it.

Joe

+ 1

Ji in Hawaii · Post by **Ji in Hawaii** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:23 pm

Amen, I do like the thought of the Winchester name back on a new production model 1873.

I'd be totally ecstatic with one in blue steel, and plain walnut.

Ji in Hawaii · Post by **Ji in Hawaii** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:37 pm

Sixgun wrote: That Miroku '73 would be one that would last, as the Japs, in addition to lopping off heads, sure can build a gun. As for the 38/357 chambering, well, its a good one but sadly, to us old heads, a boring one, I'd like to see the grand old 44 or 38 WCF cartridges in it. But on the other hand, I have been unable to wear out originals built 125+ years ago, so...............this is a gun for the younguns who want to have one gun to last their lifetimes.

Me? My tastes are changing. I like UZI'S There's a gun auction this Saturday at Wilson's http://www.wbauction.com and there is another UZI there and I believe it will follow me home. uzi...uzi....uzi.....H & K SP89..........S & W 5" 629..... -------------------------------Sixgun

Dumb Japs lost their warmongering head-lopping desires after getting their butts whupped 67 years ago. Good thing they've been focusing their energies on more positive pursuits like making consistently high quality and innovative consumer goods, that way everybody benefits not just the Japs.

I hope your Uzi will be a real authentic "Made in Israel" Uzi not a cheap inferior imitation "foreign made" copy.

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:03 pm

J Miller wrote: Besides, what in the world do you have against the 44-40?

Not really against it per se, I've got two pistols in it (an Uberti 1890 and an Uberti Smith & Wesson top break), but I was just thinking that .44 mag cases are plentiful and inexpensive, I buy .44 mag ammo when I see it cheap (which you never do with .44-40), and I'm a novice at reloading so I find the .44-40 a bit intimidating since cases seem to wrinkle when I just look at 'em! My .45 Colt and .357 lever guns don't blow back at me or spit at me, but they do soot up their cases pretty good with cowboy loads. Why would a .44 mag in cowboy loadings be any worse? Is it just black powder that offends?

Oly

stepmac · Post by **stepmac** » Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:45 am

Miroku needs to engrave the caliber, in script, on the bottom of the brass lifter. I think the rifle looks neat. A bit spendy tho. I have an original which is my go to '73 in 32/20. But if I didn't have it, I might spring for one of the Japanes Winchesters. I own two Miroku Charles Daley O/U shotguns and like them fine.

As for color? I think Winchester did make color case hardened frames. I know they did in the 85 single shot. I have a picture of an old bloke carrying a 73 in 1881 and it sure looks case hardened to me. It's a tintype, so black and white.

Leverluver · Post by **Leverluver** » Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:02 am

Acccording to Davidsons, they haven't arrived on shore yet (at least theirs hasn't). So don't go looking for one too soon.

I like round barrels on the 73. I'm getting kind of tired of octagon and I sure as heck prefer good blue to faux case colors. At first I was a little turned off by the caliber but I can deal with it. I thought I was done buying guns but maybe not

If anyone can make the toggle link stand up to the 357 long term, I think Miroku is far more capable than Uberti. Every miroku I have (one 92, two 86s, two 95s, two 71s ) is built like a tank. I believe that precision joinery of the toggle system (along with good material) is the key. I believe that Uberti is a little too sloppy in that category as to head space and precision pin toggle interface. I'm talking full house factory ammo, not mouse fanny burp loads. I'm still on the fence about the 44 mag as that brings a lot more breech thrust into the equation. A neighbor of mine got one of the Uberti 44 mags but in over a year he hasn't fired 50 rounds through it so I doubt that I will live long enough to get any useful information from him. And it doesn't matter what weaker loads that any individual plans to insert in the 44 mag case, the rifle still has to deal with full house loads all the time, every time, or the lawyers will have a field day.

Roland · Post by **Roland** » Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:56 am

J Miller wrote:Oly,

One really good reason not to shoot black powder out a 44 Mag case is blow back. The 44-40 is a tapered semi bottle necked case that seals the chambers very well with black powder.
Straight walled cases such as the 44 Mag and 45 Colt ( I have lots of black powder experience with that one) often do not expand the cases to seal the chambers. With that you get powder blown back in to the action and sometimes your face. BTDT.

Then that makes cleaning all the more important.

That's one reason I can think of.

Besides, what in the world do you have against the 44-40?

Joe

You can fix that by annealing the case mouths though, that'll seal the chamber nicely.