22 Hornet - Ruger/Savage & Remington/Prvi Partisan

[AJMD429]

The groups are numbered in the order I shot them. Not my best shooting but I was on-call and being paged doesn't exactly help one relax. Anyway, I keep thinking I ought to sell off one of my .22 Hornets, since it's bad to have two guns that duplicate function (. . . yeah, I believe that, really. . . ). Anyway, I actually have thought about selling the Savage and getting a .17 Hornet, because I actually need one of those (. . . ok, well maybe "need" isn't the right word. . . ).

So, I decided to see how they would group on a non-windy day, 50 yards, and off the bench. I used 'known entity' ammo - Remington 45 gr PSP factory loads, and some Prvi Partisan brand 45 gr PSP loads as well. Both guns, and both ammo brands, seemed to shoot well enough.

But check out group #4. . . !!! ???



I thought my scope had come loose or something, but see groups #5 and #6 - they seem to prove the difference is just the Prvi ammo in the Savage gun shoots way differently, whereas both shoot close to the same point in the Ruger. Wish I hadn't been on call and had had time to set up the Chrony...! (...actually I wish I at least got paid to be on call - it would be far less annoying... )

[Nath]

Interesting,,,,, Hornet will never die, just as will 22mag, never die that is,,,,, somehow I ain't so sure about 17Hornet!

I personally preferr the Savage, if it helps

Good luck.

N.

[AJMD429]

The Savage's trigger is better, but I'm sure the Ruger's could be improved fairly easily. The Ruger is a much 'classier' and well-made gun, whereas the Savage reminds me of the Remington 788's - accurate as heck, but part of the reason is they are just made out of concentric pieces of tubing - one of which happens to be a barrel. I had to re-do the extractor-cut by hand in the Savage, so it has a rough-looking area there, but gotta admit it shoots well.

I'm sure both guns out-shoot my abilities, and it will be difficult for me to tell which one is more accurate without alot more range-time. I also think they are going to both shoot well enough that simply using 'factory ammo' (even two or more brands) will not clearly define one as the better shooter.

Still is interesting how majorly the impact shifted with the one brand, but only in the Savage.
If I find the Ruger shoots other loads closer to the same point, that would be a 'plus' for the Ruger, unless I found that the accuracy overall was much less than the Savage.

Another 'deciding factor' on which one to keep might be which one is easier to thread (i.e. strip the action to a lathe-able piece, or remove the barrel), because either one would be a sweet little varmint-rig to suppress with a .223 can...

[6pt-sika]

I've had a number of Hornets over the years . The best shooter out of the bunch was a circa 1938 Winchester Model 70 Standard Weight with a 24" barrel .
Next best is the Ruger #1B I have now . And the Kimber 82 and Winchester 43 I had did okay .

Personally if I were you I would sell them both and get either a CZ527 or a Cooper .

The 17 Hornet doesn't intrest me much . But then alotta the "new" cartridges I've messed with in the last 6 years or so don't intrest alotta folks here either .

It's been my experience with Hornets that typically one cannot expect to much accuracy wise with factory ammo , but then that can be said about most any cartridge .

It has also been my experience that accuracy with handloads is best when you DO NOT try to hot rod a Hornet . That ain't always so with other cartridges .

[6pt-sika]

You should try handloads !

As long as you don't try to over juice the loads a Hornet is relatively easy to load for !

Good starting bullets are the Nosler 40 BT and the Hornady 40 V-Max . Also the Berger 40 grainer ain't to bad either for reloading .

[piller]

How well does the .22 Hornet do on game? I have no experience at all with them, and have never even seen one shot. It looks like it would do well on anything up to coyotes.

[earlmck]

Wow! That's a big jump in point of impact for what must be a very similar bullet. And there can't be all that much difference in velocity -- be interesting to see just what the chrony shows, though. But that is the kind of impact shift you might expect in switching from a low velocity casty load to a jacketed load.

Nice rifles, too. But they are awfully similar and maybe you should move one to make room for something else. (This advice from a fellow with six 35 Remingtons...)

[6pt-sika]

How well does the .22 Hornet do on game? I have no experience at all with them, and have never even seen one shot. It looks like it would do well on anything up to coyotes.

A Hornet at best is a 150 yard groundhog rifle .

I might shoot a coyote with one if he were within 100 yards .

The 22 Hornet and 218 Bee were the big seller Varmint rounds up until the 222 REM came out !

True the 220 Swift was out before the 222 but it never sold nearly as well as the 222 REM .

And all this is opinion coming from someone who owns atleast one for each cartridge and likes all 3 cartridges !

[AJMD429]

I plan to reload, but have a couple hundred rounds of factory stuff to shoot up for the brass, first.

I doubt I'll ever shoot anything beyond paper targets or steel gongs with the round, to be honest, but I DO like to shoot paper and gongs...

I have a 'thing' for Ruger bolt-actions, so probably won't part with that one anytime soon.

If I had a .17 Savage chambered gun, I'd shoot the same paper-and-gongs, so I realize it wouldn't be a particularly 'practical' swap to trade either of the .22 Hornets for. However, IF I had a "seventeen", I'd probably prefer the reloadable .17 Hornet vs. less-powerful-non-reloadable .17 HMR (which I do have), or the kind-of-overpowered .17 Remington (If I want that much power, I'll just use my .223).

Did any of you other guys notice how this kind of stuff is addicting...? It can become a regular obsession. Thankfully I'm not like that.

Well, not too much.

Maybe a little bit, actually.

[6pt-sika]

In my mind a good and fun 100 yard paper rifle would be a Remington , Ruger or Savage in 204 Ruger !

That ones easy to load for just like the 222 , 223 and 222 REM MAG !

But more fun yet IMHO then the 204 Ruger would be a 20 PPC or 20 BR

Yeah I'm getting a thing for the 20 cals just like the 22's (centerfire of course), 6mm's , 25's , 6.5mm's , 7mm's , 8mm's , 375's , 44's and 45's as well as the 8 gauge , 10 gauge , 16 gauge and 28 gauge

One can never have to many diversions !

[6pt-sika]

Yes sir one of those Ruger 77 MKII VT's in 204 Ruger would be the ticket . All ya gotta do is get used to the 2 stage trigger !

I've had the MK II VT's in 204 Ruger and 6mm PPC . Both of them were real tack drivers as long as I was doing my part .

[Ysabel Kid]

I had purchased some of the Prvi Partisan ammo in .32 ACP a couple years ago to use with the kids for some pocket pistols I own. Darn stuff was unreliable, dirty, and inaccurate. I won't use it again.

[earlmck]

Darn stuff was unreliable, dirty, and inaccurate. I won't use it again.

I've never shot any of their ammo but I got some real nice 303 Savage brass from them. And was real glad to get it! Any outfit that'll produce 303 Savage deserves real positive press on a Leverguns forum.

[L_Kilkenny]

A Hornet at best is a 150 yard groundhog rifle .

I might shoot a coyote with one if he were within 100 yards .

The 22 Hornet and 218 Bee were the big seller Varmint rounds up until the 222 REM came out !

True the 220 Swift was out before the 222 but it never sold nearly as well as the 222 REM .

And all this is opinion coming from someone who owns atleast one for each cartridge and likes all 3 cartridges !

Now, 6pt didn't talk about the .22m in this post and I have no idea of his stance on it's capability but it seems odd that someone would think so little of the .22 Hornet when it far and away outshines the .22M. If you scale the rounds, .22lr being a 1 and .22H being a 10 the .22M would fall around 2 or 3. At 175 yards the .22H has 3-4 times the energy of a .22M at 125 yards. 125 yards seems to be the accepted threshold for using the .22M on varmints and fox yet the .22H only exceeds this by 25 yards and isn't capable of larger critters? (This isn't a bash on the .22M, only included to show the differences)

I tend to limit cartridges as much by their accuracy and maximum point blank range (how I sight in all my rifles) as I do by their power. IIRC, the Hornet has a 3" MPBR of 175 -180 yards so I wouldn't use one much beyond that for much of anything. But out to that range it should have plenty of thump for about anything you'd commonly use any of the other .22 centerfires for including coyotes.

[AJMD429]

Two thoughts...

What about the Encore platform - seems a relatively inexpensive way to get into a 'new' cartridge and check it out with a good receiver/trigger.

Also - back to the .17 HMR round - I don't see anything as potentially accurate in the ultra-low-recoil range other than a .17 HMR, or a .22, .243, or bigger .17 fired from a 10-pound bench-gun. There don't seem to be any other common .20 caliber rounds not in the 'magnum' class (.204 Ruger isn't "Magnum" marketing-wise, but look at the case-volume/bore ratio, and it clearly IS in the 'over-powered/under-bored' category - it's just too small to recoil much).

I think if I get anything in the low-powered, non-rimfire 'varmint' class it might be a .17 Hornet; if I needed the power of a .204 Ruger I'd just use my .223, and I'm not sure I could outshoot my .223 with any .204 Ruger (but that may just reflect my poor shooting-skills).

[6pt-sika]

Two thoughts...

What about the Encore platform - seems a relatively inexpensive way to get into a 'new' cartridge and check it out with a good receiver/trigger.

.204 Ruger isn't "Magnum" marketing-wise, but look at the case-volume/bore ratio, and it clearly IS in the 'over-powered/under-bored' category - it's just too small to recoil much).

I realize there are LOTS of folks that LOVE the Encore/Contender and I'm not one of them .
I've had several Contenders over the years , all in handgun persuaision and all shot okay they just never really grew on me . I've also had a Encore ProHunter that was set up for rifle , shotgun and ML . Mine was a stainless job with the ProHunter black stocks and forends for all three barrels . The rifle barrel was a 338 Federal and the thing was a tack driver with handloads . The shotgun barrel was a 12 gauge rifled slug barrel and it would shoot good enough for what I wanted to do with it , however I couldn't keep the scope from torqueing in the mounts . The ML barrel would shot well enough also but ........... to get that S...O....B to shoot to suit me I needed to clean between each shot . That certainly turned me off to the platform as a ML since at the time I had not one but TWO Knight Disc Rifles that would shoot 3 shot groups thru fouled barrels that were as good if not better then what I shot with the TC Encore . On a side note what I paid for my 45 and 50 cal Knight Disc's combined was about $50 less then what I had tied up in the TC Encore ProHunter just set up as a muzzle loader .

Alotta folks will say whats the big deal about having to clean between shots blah blah blah . For me thats an issue , as well as the scope torqueing on the shotgun barrel . I cannot knock the rifle barrel as it shot like a champ . But based on those two occurances it's pretty much soured me from getting another Encore .

Now then recoil of a 204 Ruger !
Again I realize different folks have different standards fopr all kinds of things . But to me mentioning the 204 Ruger and recoil in the same sentance is absurd . A 204 Ruger will have no more if not less recoil then a 222 or 223 . And as far as I'm concerned all three of those have no recoil period .

But the bottom line is I'm not the one paying the bill for whatever you may or may not purchase

[6pt-sika]

A Hornet at best is a 150 yard groundhog rifle .

I might shoot a coyote with one if he were within 100 yards .

The 22 Hornet and 218 Bee were the big seller Varmint rounds up until the 222 REM came out !

True the 220 Swift was out before the 222 but it never sold nearly as well as the 222 REM .

And all this is opinion coming from someone who owns atleast one for each cartridge and likes all 3 cartridges !

Now, 6pt didn't talk about the .22m in this post and I have no idea of his stance on it's capability but it seems odd that someone would think so little of the .22 Hornet when it far and away outshines the .22M. If you scale the rounds, .22lr being a 1 and .22H being a 10 the .22M would fall around 2 or 3. At 175 yards the .22H has 3-4 times the energy of a .22M at 125 yards. 125 yards seems to be the accepted threshold for using the .22M on varmints and fox yet the .22H only exceeds this by 25 yards and isn't capable of larger critters? (This isn't a bash on the .22M, only included to show the differences)

I tend to limit cartridges as much by their accuracy and maximum point blank range (how I sight in all my rifles) as I do by their power. IIRC, the Hornet has a 3" MPBR of 175 -180 yards so I wouldn't use one much beyond that for much of anything. But out to that range it should have plenty of thump for about anything you'd commonly use any of the other .22 centerfires for including coyotes.

I'll make this easy for anyone who's intrested in what I like or dislike !

I don't care for the ,

17 MK-II
17 HMR although I had a stainless Marlin HB that would keep 3 in 3/4" at 100 yards
17 Bee
17 REM
22 MAG although I've owned quite a few of them

I am on the fence about the ,

223 REM , had several that were 1/2 MOA just not a cartridge that grew on me
219 Zipper , had one of these in a Marlin 336SC that was a factory gun
225 WIN

The ones I like are ,

204 Ruger
20 PPC
20 BR
20 Vartang
22 Hornet
218 Bee
222 REM
222 REM MAG
22-250
22-250AI
220 Swift
22 Cheetah
22 PPC
22 BR
224 Clark
224 TTH

Sorry if this went away from your original questions

[AJMD429]

I thought that .222 Rem Mag was almost exactly like .223 Rem...?

It is funny though how certain cartridges just have an appeal to different individuals, depending on not only their actual experience with them or with similar cartridges, but also just sometimes their 'looks' or even name.

I agree on the 'recoil' thing with the .223 and I can't imagine the .204 recoiling much at all due to the light weight, unless fired from a pistol maybe. My Encore .223 makes lots of noise, but just sits there on its bipod with barely any recoil.

I like the Encore rifles, though, and the Contender pistols, as long as I can use my aftermarket grips on the Contender. I shoot pipsqueaks in the Contender, like .22 Hornet, .22 LR, and .222 Rem, with the hottest 'cannon' being .357 Maximum, so there's no recoil to speak of anyway.

[6pt-sika]

I thought that .222 Rem Mag was almost exactly like .223 Rem...?

I shoot pipsqueaks in the Contender, like .22 Hornet, .22 LR, and .222 Rem, with the hottest 'cannon' being .357 Maximum, so there's no recoil to speak of anyway.

The 223 and the 222 REM MAG are virtually the same thing . The 222 REM MAG was however the parent case for the old 6x47 Remington of old benchrest fame , so that unto itself kinda makes the 222 REM MAG of intrest to me .

As to the Contender handguns you prefer you shudda tried the Contender I had about 6 months ago with the 12" barrel in 444 Marlin . Even when I throttled that one back it was still a handfull . Same can be said for the 45-70 BFR my gunsmith buddy "had" . That thing was a PITA to work up loads for .

Without a doubt the three best handguns/handrifles I ever owned were a pair of Savage bolt action Stykers in 260 REM and 7mm-08 and a Remington XP-100R in 260 REM . Matter of fact the Stryker 7-08 was the only hand held firearm I have killed a deer with so far .

[AJMD429]

As to the Contender handguns you prefer you shudda tried the Contender I had about 6 months ago with the 12" barrel in 444 Marlin . Even when I throttled that one back it was still a handfull . Same can be said for the 45-70 BFR my gunsmith buddy "had" . That thing was a PITA to work up loads for .

I guess we're both guilty of drifting off the .22 Hornet OP, but the worst (most painful, and couldn't hit the broad side of a barn from inside the barn with it) handgun I ever fired was an Encore in .454 Casull with a 10" or at most 12" barrel, and 'factory' grips. . .

[6pt-sika]

On a kinda side note !

I got a heads up on a Ruger #1V in 22-250 thats for sale . Gun has a Burris scope on top as well .
I'm gonna go next week and take a gander at it . We don't have a actual 22-250 at the moment just the 22-250AI . If the guns in decent shape with decent figured wood I may try and make the #1 total go up to nineteeen

[Nath]

My Hornets use to reach 200yd rabbits regular and one of them ear holed a doe at 75yds too.

Longest fox was near 200yds too.

With 40grn BT or V-mav it is a 200yder varmint gun and still very good with 52grn HPBT match bullets!

Over herre it use to be a favourite roe deer round, that was untill some expert worked out it don't work good 'nuff

N.

[6pt-sika]

Over herre it use to be a favourite roe deer round, that was untill some expert worked out it don't work good 'nuff

N.

You guys have or had a bi weekly paper or magazine type thing that was about hounds , hunting , stalking , shooting and fishing I cannot remmember the exact name . But I have a bunch of them in a box here somewhere from the early 70's into the early 90's . Anyway seems to me I read a number of articles on Scottish blokes that liked the 222 REM for Roe and I think to a degree for Red Stag !

The guy that wrote the area blurb for Scotland in the periodical was a big proponent of the 222 REM if my memory serves me .

[Nath]

Lot of old timers still prefer 222 for roe, me too! Not legal for reds but that don't mean nothin'.

222 was the next obviouse choice after Hornet was outlawed with the help of experts for use on small deer.

Give me a 22Hornet or 222 and I will bring you home pretty much anything that can be taken in BRITAIN, no fuss, no special bullets, no cup full of powder and no deafening noise too

N.

[Newtire]

Darn stuff was unreliable, dirty, and inaccurate. I won't use it again.

I've never shot any of their ammo but I got some real nice 303 Savage brass from them. And was real glad to get it! Any outfit that'll produce 303 Savage deserves real positive press on a Leverguns forum.

I recently picked up 5 boxes of 50 loaded ammo privi partisan .22 hornet at our local Cabelas @ around $27.00 per box. I took some out to fireform into my newly reamed k-hornet chamber and had a 23% split neck rate out of 40 fired. This wasn't looking too good for the stuff right off the bat.

However, I set about pulling the bullets from 100 more and getting them deprimed (safe way is to snap the caps and punch out fired primers of course).

I then stood the cases up in an old pie tin and covered the cases halfway up with water. I heated them for 4 seconds with propane torch & tipped them into the water to anneal the necks. The necks still held tension on the bullets, so I put the bullets back in that I had just pulled over 10 gr. IMR 4227 and a small pistol primer, crimped them in with the Lee FCD and fired them off. They formed nicely and the split rate went down to a 5% rate out of 100 fired. Later, I used a bator gas checked slug to do the same thing.

I loaded up these cases with a stiff charge of Lil Gun and a 45 grain Sierra and they have survived 2 firings with no loose primer pockets or damage of any kind. So far, so good.

So, while not Winchester brass, these held up (with a bit of extra tweaking) when Winchester were unobtainable. Just a FYI.

[AJMD429]

Welcome (though your 'join date isn't recent it says this was your second post, & we've not 'met' before).

Good advice on annealing before fireforming.
I now have a 17 Hornet so my plans to mess with K-Hornet are on hold.

So far the 17 Hornet is pretty nice...

[Les Staley]

I've got a Ruger #3 in 22 Hornet I picked up at a Michigan gun show in the early 80s for $250. It came with weaver bases and a couple hundred handloads.. I was pretty stoked till I strapped down a scope and watched bullets keyhole at 40 yds..full side prints of the 55 gr fmj bullets the PO had loaded. Got into a loading book and found out the 55s were a full ten grains heavy for the slow twist of the Hornet.. Scrounged up some 2400 and a box of 45 gr and nothing was safe. Killed a couple of Yotes when I moved to Wyoming and it was pretty hard on prairie dogs, but soon after got my first 223 Ruger 77 All Weather and the Hornet has been languishing in the safe for 25 years. Guess I'll have to get it out and get reacquainted..

[AJMD429]

I've got a Ruger #3 in 22 Hornet I picked up at a Michigan gun show in the early 80s for $250. It came with weaver bases and a couple hundred handloads.. I was pretty stoked till I strapped down a scope and watched bullets keyhole at 40 yds..full side prints of the 55 gr fmj bullets the PO had loaded. Got into a loading book and found out the 55s were a full ten grains heavy for the slow twist of the Hornet.. Scrounged up some 2400 and a box of 45 gr and nothing was safe...

Kinda nice the previous owner didn't know to stick with the right bullets; otherwise if he'd have even sold the gun, he'd have asked twice as much...!

Killed a couple of Yotes when I moved to Wyoming and it was pretty hard on prairie dogs, but soon after got my first 223 Ruger 77 All Weather and the Hornet has been languishing in the safe for 25 years. Guess I'll have to get it out and get reacquainted

I've done that many times; in fact currently I'm allocating my limited range-time to a Contender carbine I set up in 17 Hornet. That round seems to fill the niche I was looking for 22 Hornet to fill. Gotta handload for the 22 Hornet some though, and see what I can wring out of those rifles too.

(. . . too many guns to workup loads for . . . < sigh > . . . gotta either get rid of some guns, or invent a way to expand time or time-travel . . . I guess the latter is more likely for me to succeed with, so off to the drawing-board . . . )

[vancelw]

Welcome (though your 'join date isn't recent it says this was your second post, & we've not 'met' before).

Good advice on annealing before fireforming.
I now have a 17 Hornet so my plans to mess with K-Hornet are on hold.

So far the 17 Hornet is pretty nice...

Keep us posted on that 17 Hornet. I've been pondering one since they came out. I bought my first 17 HMR last year in a Savage rifle. It shot 5-round groups that were 1/4" in vertical height, but would string 2" horizontally. That 17 bullet is just so wind sensitive. Makes me hesitate on the 17 hornet since they use the same bullets. And...I have a hard enough time getting my fat fingers to set a .224 bullet on a .223 Rem case.

I bought an early Contender a few months ago. I had a .222 Rem and a .357 Max barrels. I ended up buying some Prvi Partisan ammo for the 222 just for the brass. I haven't tried it yet. Glad to know that, if I'm not happy with the results, I should just shoot it up and reload it.

[jnyork]

I have two Hornets, a CZ 527 in a Boyd's laminated stock, and an elderly Savage 23D with an equally elderly Weaver k10 attached. Both of these rifles will keep 10 shots in about a 1 1/4" group at 100 yards, there isn't hardly any difference in their accuracy.

I have shot a few hundred prairie dogs with these, I can tell you any PD within 150 yards is meat in the pan. From my cold dead fingers.

[Les Staley]

Meat in the pan? I have eaten young prairie dog..head shot makes two chicken stick back legs and a backstrap . Fried in bacon grease, salted, peppered and floured it tastes like.....rabbit. Nutthin wrong with it!

[2ndovc]

I've had a few Hornets and a 218 Bee in Martini cadet rifles.
Sold them off when the prices shot way up. Really wish I'd kept the .218, what a tack driver!
At the time I thought I'd make a few bucks and since I had a Sako in 222 I really didn't need them.
I sure have done some dumb things!
Although my 222 has accounted for some amazing shots, including a woodchuck at 435 paces!

I've had good luck with Privi Partizan ammo. However most of it has been with large cal. Military
Caliber.

jb

[jnyork]

Meat in the pan? I have eaten young prairie dog..head shot makes two chicken stick back legs and a backstrap . Fried in bacon grease, salted, peppered and floured it tastes like.....rabbit. Nutthin wrong with it!

Just an expression, Les, just an expression.