should I do 'er? (Pic Added)

[El Chivo]

I got a note back from JES Reboring about changing over my 336 30-30 to shoot .357 bullets. So it would be a 30-.357 rather than a standard 30-35 in .358.

The idea is to use pistol bullets, to get some decent velocity with a 180 grain Oregon Trail. And if I take it hunting, I'll use the Barnes XPB 140 which will mushroom even as slow as 900 fps. And I'll have other bullet choices if I need to experiment.

Mostly I want better accuracy, 30-30 with lead bullets has been a big disappointment, whereas .357 magnums are very accurate for me. Jes said it was doable and recommended the 3 groove.

Any comments, because of course once I do it I can't go back. I'm hoping to get the best of both worlds, although of course I might not.

Another option is 38-55, but I'm thinking bullet choice is limited (no Barnes bullet).

[Tycer]

I've wanted a 35-30 for years. Go for it. The dies have held me back. I have an extra barrel.

[SteveR]

If you went to .355 then you could take advantage of all the 9mm out there also, I doubt 2 thousands will cause to much pressure when using the .357, just an idea to talk over with the one who is re-boring the barrel for you.

Steve

[AJMD429]

If you went to .355 then you could take advantage of all the 9mm out there also, I doubt 2 thousands will cause to much pressure when using the .357, just an idea to talk over with the one who is re-boring the barrel for you.

I like that idea, and those little plated 9mm bullets are dirt-cheap and would make fine small-game or target loads.

[stretch]

Or you could just rebarrel it to 35 Remington.

(Just sayin.....)

Of your listed options, I like the 30-357 one the best.

-Stretch

[damienph]

Will it have the same profile as the 30-30 or will it look more like a rimmed 35 Remington? As much as I like 38-55, this sounds interesting. Are dies (reasonably) readily available?

[Blaine]

This is not really on topic (imagine that ), but I've always wondered about 338-30 . 338-06 and 338-08 work so darn well.....lot's of lighter bullets.

[Hobie]

Well, if that's what you want to do...

There are plenty of cast bullets for the .38-55 now, not always the case that you could find them. There ARE jacketed bullets out there, too! Again, wasn't always able to find those.

[Old Savage]

Knowing something of the way you like to shoot and your outlook I would suggest you do the .357.

Why walk the beaten path.

[El Chivo]

OS, thanks for the encouragement, and to everyone for their comments.


Hobie, I was (am) considering 38-55, but your hesitation about being able to find bullets kind of makes my point - there are .357 bullets all over the place. Plus, in thinking about the size of the 30-grain case, I think I'd rather be pushing a 180 than a 240 grainer. I'm hoping for velocities around 1600-1700 without a lot of pressure. I got that with 170's in 30-30 and ought to get it with 180's in the same case.

Another point about bullet selection is important to me as a California resident - no Barnes bullets for 38-55. I couldn't take it hunting, or even woods walking, without such a load. And you've already heard me complaining about the Barnes 30-30 bullet not expanding at low velocities - limiting me to a 150 yard shot if I want expansion. The .357 Barnes bullet would give me that, plus 2000+ fps velocity (in .357 magnum, I'm probably getting 1400 fps).

Damien, about dies, I have made dummies using my regular dies for 30-30 and .357 and 35 Rem. I full-length sized to 30-30 and then opened up the neck to .357 and .358. Once they're fire-formed, I shouldn't need to full-length size again. If I do, I can take out the plug in my 30-30 die so the neck won't be touched (or at least I thought I could - the darn thing seems to be frozen. I might have to order another). I might even be able to insert the plug of the 35 Rem into the 30-30 die, giving me the .358 neck and the 30-30 bottom. Anyway, I've already made some dummies, it wasn't difficult.

Steve and AJ, thanks, but I'm thinking of going to the heavy side of bullet choice rather than the light. I could shoot 125's with .357 magnum and get similar results, however, with a 180 grain bullet I can't get much more than 1300 fps. I'm hoping the bigger case will let me get the 180's out to the 200 yard rams with authority and accuracy.

What I really want is accuracy, which for microgroove and lead doesn't seem to be happening.

Thanks again!

[Tycer]

I want you to do the 35-30 however I question why you can't get 1700fps with the 357 Magnum?

Here's a link to an earlier thread. Read OIs post on the BB brand 180s

http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... 80#p505298

Here's one on bullet construction by 86er

http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... 22#p502807

[SteveR]

OS, thanks for the encouragement, and to everyone for their comments.


Hobie, I was (am) considering 38-55, but your hesitation about being able to find bullets kind of makes my point - there are .357 bullets all over the place. Plus, in thinking about the size of the 30-grain case, I think I'd rather be pushing a 180 than a 240 grainer. I'm hoping for velocities around 1600-1700 without a lot of pressure. I got that with 170's in 30-30 and ought to get it with 180's in the same case.

Another point about bullet selection is important to me as a California resident - no Barnes bullets for 38-55. I couldn't take it hunting, or even woods walking, without such a load. And you've already heard me complaining about the Barnes 30-30 bullet not expanding at low velocities - limiting me to a 150 yard shot if I want expansion. The .357 Barnes bullet would give me that, plus 2000+ fps velocity (in .357 magnum, I'm probably getting 1400 fps).

Damien, about dies, I have made dummies using my regular dies for 30-30 and .357 and 35 Rem. I full-length sized to 30-30 and then opened up the neck to .357 and .358. Once they're fire-formed, I shouldn't need to full-length size again. If I do, I can take out the plug in my 30-30 die so the neck won't be touched (or at least I thought I could - the darn thing seems to be frozen. I might have to order another). I might even be able to insert the plug of the 35 Rem into the 30-30 die, giving me the .358 neck and the 30-30 bottom. Anyway, I've already made some dummies, it wasn't difficult.

Steve and AJ, thanks, but I'm thinking of going to the heavy side of bullet choice rather than the light. I could shoot 125's with .357 magnum and get similar results, however, with a 180 grain bullet I can't get much more than 1300 fps. I'm hoping the bigger case will let me get the 180's out to the 200 yard rams with authority and accuracy.

What I really want is accuracy, which for microgroove and lead doesn't seem to be happening.

Thanks again!

Yes, the heavier weights in .357-.358 will make it much better for the longer and heavier targets.
I hope you go with the .357 then, and please let us know how it shoots when you get it finished!!! Sounds like you will have a great time reloading with all the different weight .357's out there. Wish you good luck.

Steve

[Malamute]

You're wanting to use cast bullets for general plinking and the all copper bullets for hunting?

Most loading manuals show many loads with various jacketed 357 pistol bullets in 35 cal rifles. They generally say they give very good accuracy. Is there any reason to go a thou smaller than a standard 35 cal rifle bore?

I may have missed something.

Just rebarreling to 35 rem won't work, you'd need a bolt also. Not the end of the world, just another step.

I dont think you can use your 30-30 dies to load 35-30 rounds. They won't size the neck, unless you were going to size them to 30 cal then expand again when withdrawing the case from the die.

I missed your trying 30 cal cast hullets. I havent fooled with Marlins much, but sizing seems to be more critical with them.

[Old Savage]

The bullets for hunting here must be non lead- that means ALL copper. They are also usually a bit under standard bore size but they
are available in .357.

[El Chivo]

[quote="Malamute"]You're wanting to use cast bullets for general plinking and the all copper bullets for hunting?

Mostly the former, possibly the latter as well.

Is there any reason to go a thou smaller than a standard 35 cal rifle bore?

Accuracy would be the reason. I already have the same rifle in 35 Rem. It doesn't shoot lead .358's or jacketed .357's well at all. And the 180 grainer I want to use won't even chamber. What I'm thinking is reboring my 30-30 this way is like converting it to a 35 Rem optimized for lead. And I'll still have my 35 Rem optimized for jacketed.



I dont think you can use your 30-30 dies to load 35-30 rounds

True, I made the dummies by full length sizing with the 30-30 die and then flaring the neck (carefully), then re-sizing with the 35 Rem die. This neck sizes to .358 but since the rest of the die is larger than 30-30, it doesn't touch the sides of the cartridge as it goes down.

The .357 die does touch the sides of the 30-30 before the neck makes contact, so I can't neck size down to .357. So any .357 bullets will have to go into a neck sized .358. They feel tight enough after crimping but come out easily with a bullet puller. So there's less neck tension; I don't know if that's good or bad.

dummy.jpg

Check out these dummies, from right to left:

Remington .357 158 grain jacketed hollow point
Oregon Trail .358 158 grain roundnose flat point
Silver State .357 158 grain copper coated lead
Oregon Trail .358 180 grain flat point
Barnes XPB .357 140 grain hollow point

They do kind of look like 35 Rems with a longer neck.

If I decide I have to keep it a lead shooter only, it might then make sense to rebore all the way to 38-55. Either way this is an interesting project already.

[damienph]

I don't think that the neck tension would be a problem as long as it was tight enough to hold the bullet in place (in mag tube) under recoil and not get pushed in deeper while loading through the gate. I think that it is worth persuing since you have figured out how to form your cases. You could try a Lee FCD for 35 Remington, it mighttighten it up a little more.

After reading your post again (to look at the pictures); how are you crimping? Are you using a seater/crimp die for 35 Rem or are you already using the FCD?

[earlmck]

The .357 die does touch the sides of the 30-30 before the neck makes contact, so I can't neck size down to .357.

I don't know what .357 die you have there, El Chivo, but I use my .357 carbide die to neck size my 35 Remington by just running it up 'till it "bumps". Those beautiful 35/30's would take the same treatment wonderfully, I'd think.

My procedure, when I do this "neck size" thing is to decap with Lee's "Universal decaper", size with the carbide .357, and then expand with the Lyman "M" die in .358 (you would use .357 of course) to get the nice little neck flare for the lead bullets. I don't get to do this much anymore because I like the 35 Remington so well I ended up with several different rifles and am forced into full-length sizing more often than back when I had just one. But you wouldn't have that problem if you can use more self-control than I did.

[3leggedturtle]

I would do the 35/30 too. The Saeco 180gr RFN is a great bullet in any thing .35cal You could go to LBT or Mountain Molds and get a 220 to 240 grain WFN bullet to fit your chamber. It also has a long neck which is even better for cast bullet loads.

[Marc]

El Chivo, tell me more about the Barnes 30-30 bullet not expanding. Barnes claims they expand down to 1400 fps. Not true? I have some loaded for short range work. I might have to push them a little faster if they don't expand at 1400.

PS. I killed a little buck yesterday morning. Not in 30-30 country however. He was on the skyline and I ranged the slope below him at 320 yards. 30-06 with a 130 grain TTSX at 3200 fps puts them on the ground!

[El Chivo]

El Chivo, tell me more about the Barnes 30-30 bullet not expanding. Barnes claims they expand down to 1400 fps. Not true? I have some loaded for short range work. I might have to push them a little faster if they don't expand at 1400.

PS. I killed a little buck yesterday morning. Not in 30-30 country however. He was on the skyline and I ranged the slope below him at 320 yards. 30-06 with a 130 grain TTSX at 3200 fps puts them on the ground!

Congratulations Marc, I was just thinking you were in your buck-taking week.

Well, time for my Barnes rant...

I have the same info, 1400 fps, but that would only give me about 150 yards. I had a load that was faster, and thought it was safe, but pressure estimates came up over 50k. So I decided not to use it.

I bought that 30-30 strictly to use the Barnes bullet so if I'm not going to do that I might as well convert it. And that XPB bullet opens much easier, although there are problems with it losing petals.

I also bought some of the .358 200 gr. Barnes bullets to have a load for 35 Rem. They are spires, and also are very long. Those need 1800 fps to open, and since they take up so much powder room, I'm barely getting that at the muzzle. Probably effective for defense, though, a copper solid traveling at 1700 at close range. Ouch. They legalize my 35 Rem for hikes and scouting.

The XPB series is probably closer to what leverguns need. They also make .357 in a 110 grain, "TAC-XP". If I convert this rifle maybe I'll try those too. But even so, the 140 grainer is the same length as a 180 lead bullet. So again, not a lot of powder room. My .357 load shoots well with 12.5 grains of 4227, I believe that's about 1300 fps. That's it.

I have come to the conclusion that Barnes and Leverguns don't mix. They're too long, and need too much velocity. They would need to come out with some light, short versions for leverguns, like a 30-30 90 grain. I bet they would still penetrate, but they need to leave us some powder room.

I'm taking the year off from deer hunting, no tag this year. I have been working on a coyote setup which is almost ready. I'd rather go hunting in the winter with no people around, less brush, and hungry coyotes. If I like it, and decide to just hunt coyotes, then light Barnes bullets going very fast are what I need. I do have my Handi-Rifle in .243, and maybe these XPB's. Other than that, it's been very frustrating - I feel like the guy who throws all his golf clubs in the water hazard and then heads for the bar.

[Marc]

To get more range with the 30-30 I went to the 130 TSX. I was able to get 2650 fps with 38.5 grains of LVR. That extends range to beyond 250 yards. I did use the rifle as a two shooter. I should see what the 150 FN TSX will do with LVR. It ought to stretch it some. Barnes is also making a .308 110 TTSX now. You ought to be able to push those to useable speeds in a 30-30. You would have to use the rifle as a two shot though.

The 357x30-30 ought to be a potent rig with the 140 XPB. It sure wouldn't be a long range rig though. Barnes used to make a 180 grain X bullet. If they made a 180 TSX I would have to try it in my 356. I have thought about making a 338x356 just so I could try the .338 160 TTSX. I figure you could sand the plastic tip off to shorten them without any harm.

We saw several coyotes where we were. It also looks like the hunter turnout is lower this year. Maybe the gas prices are keeping people home. My wife still has a deer tag and I am going to get another tag next week. We are going out the last week of season. The does look to be herding up. Maybe they will be in the rut and we will see some real bucks!

[Old Savage]

The Barnes bulletd work fine in the
Model 88

[Marc]

My 1895 Winchesters do too. That really isn't the point.

[Old Savage]

Maybe you don't get it, with El Chivo there are always many points and no roads areand no roads are closed. But to clarfy, I think he should try his idea; thatis his nature.

[O.S.O.K.]

I'll throw in the opinion that you should go with .356 Winchester with .358" bore. It'll shoot any of those .357" jacketed bullets just fine and gives you much more top end for hunting.

I did that with a 336 but it was already a 35 Remington.

[Marc]

Maybe you don't get it, with El Chivo there are always many points and no roads areand no roads are closed. But to clarfy, I think he should try his idea; thatis his nature.

Yes, I get it. Didn't mean to upset you. I am a firm believer that everyone should do what he wants as long as it doesn't harm others. Maybe El Chivo and I have something in common. I have no interest in following the beaten path either. Carry on.