A question about foot pounds of energy...

[mergus]

Hello All. Almost every day I get email from African outfitters advertising their hunting packages. These emails usually contain pictures of smiling hunters crouching over exotic dead animals, etc. I'm sure you've seen them. The email I got today contained a paragraph or 2 or minimum power levels required to hunt certain species. The power levels are expressed in Joules. I looked Joules up and found what I think is the appropriate conversion to foot lbs energy. While that was helpful, it didn't take me quite as far as I wanted to go.

Here's the question....If I were to go on an African safari (and these ads are for plains animals, eland, kudu, warthogs, etc) I would want to take my 1978 Marlin 1895 in 45-70. My question is, given the minimum Joule requirement of 2700 Joules for eland, kudu, etc, would the loads I've been using, 43 grains of Reloader 7 behind a 350 gr Beartooth Bullet meet the 2700 Joule minimum?

I know some of you guys have ways of calculating foot lbs of energy and I was wondering if you could help me out with this?

Thanks,
Mergus

[Blaine]

I cannot calculate that, but I could steer you towards Garrett's 45-70 ammo that he's made for DG in Africa. His site will have testimony and pics...

[AJMD429]

Try this - http://www.unitconversion.org/energy/jo ... rsion.html

According to that calcuator - 2000 ft-lb = 2712 joules

[perry owens]

To answer the question accurately we would need to chronograph your load through your rifle to determine muzzle velocity. What I can tell you is that a 350 grain bullet with a MV of 1600 ft/sec would have a muzzle energy of 2706 Joules.
Perry Owens

[piller]

I am sure there are formulas (formulae for the purists) to calculate the change from joules to foot-pounds. I suggest that you check directly with the Governmental Agency of the country you wish to hunt. They seem to have all of the information that most of us could ever ask for. The ammunition from Grizzly that I used had a 405 grain Hawk softnose out of my .45-70 Guide Gun, but I didn't chronograph it. I almost made a monumental mistake and forgot to order the ammo in time, but 86er called Mike Rintoul and I had my ammunition in time. Mike said on that phone that it was probably somewhere around 1500 fps or more out of my short barrel, and that it should be enough for anything except the big 5 game animals. Considering the 2 recovered bullets had about 4 feet of penetration in the Wildebeest, and mushroomed pretty good, I think I was OK. Anyway, check with the Government of the country where you want to go, or use a conversion formula.

[mergus]

Thanks guys. Those are exactly the types of answers I was looking for.

Mergus

[piller]

Here is the link to a converter.
http://www.unitconversion.org/energy/jo ... rsion.html

[tman]

If I hit the lottery BIG TIME, I'm taking my 1895 30-06 and 1886 SRC 45-70 on an African safari and expect to kill the big 6 with those 2.

[1894c]

somewhat off-topic...but why would anyone want to shoot a warthog...then once shot...what's next...warthog stew, chilli, steaks...and is there a really butt-ugly mounted head hanging in the family room...? ... :0

[rjohns94]

I personally would love to shoot a warthog. Their ivory makes a great memory item and the meat goes to the locals

[allhands]

I'll let you know about the warthog.....We're headed to Africa in May. By the way, I think 86er could answer alot of questions regarding African calibers etc. We are taking a .444 Marlin and a 7x57 Mauser for plains game and we were told we won't be undergunned.....

[wecsoger]

Or an aesthetic question.

If/when you did shoot a warthog, which end would you mount to put up on the wall? (grin)

Could you truly say, that of all creatures on earth the front end looks worse than the back?

[bdhold]

http://www.firearmexpertwitness.com/cus ... lcnrg.html

Energy = bullet weight x velocity x velocity / 450450

[Griff]

Or an aesthetic question.
If/when you did shoot a warthog, which end would you mount to put up on the wall? (grin)
Could you truly say, that of all creatures on earth the front end looks worse than the back?

Ok, you KNEW this was comin'... I've seen some women like that... so no, I'd have to say the Wharthog, while a -5 on the "cute" scale, still still ranks up there on the "I-spent-a-ton-of-money-to-kill-this-thing-and-I'm-showin'-it-off" list!

[86er]

One of the reasons we host the Leverguns Safari in South Africa is because there are no caliber restrictions for DG or large ungulates. In other countries the minimum diameter is either .366 or .375 and the lbs/ft energy is 4000 for DG and varies from 2000-3800 for large ungulates (depending on the country). You cannot take your 45-70, 45-90 or 50 Alaskan to most countries in Africa for Big 6. Almost all the stories, advertisements and reports you hear with these and other levergun calibers are from South Africa. You may get a heavily loaded cartridge that might make the minimum in some countries but those authorities will then have to be petitioned and the cartridge manufacturer (cant be a reload) will have to provide an attestation to the bullet weight, velocity from your barrel, bullet diameter, SD and composition. On the other hand, South Africa restricts any rimfire cartridge and 50 calibers of .500, (although this has varied some in recent years). I've taken almost every plains game animal in RSA with a 45-70 with the exception of Red Hartebeest, Warthog and ungulates under 100 pounds (just because I havent had the interest or opportunity to shoot them). I've used a 405 grain Kodiak bullet at 2026 fps average out of my 1886 with 22" barrel, and I've used a 350 grain Kodiak at 2277 fps average (same rifle). My furthest shot has been 206 yards on a Blesbok and the next furthest was 174 yards on a Gemsbok. The closest shot has been 80 yards on a Zebra. The 405's have shot through big animals like Zebra, Eland, Blue Wildebeest. I have also recovered one from the Gemsbok and one from an Eland. The 350's have exited about 1/2 the time on all animals it was used on. Either one will do fine on all plains game. I favor the 405 in that particular bullet because the expansion is up to 1" and always over .86" so the tracking is very quick if at all necessary. For DG including buffalo, hippo and elephant I've used 405 and 430 grain PUNCH bullets with perfect success. The 405 Kodiak expanding bullet is a good first shot bullet for buffalo. The Kodiak solid was a failure as it expanded on an elephants head and a buffalo spine. The 540 grain cast from you know who did not work well on an elephant body shot (lost 75% of weight and was essentially a lead ball) and did not put down a buffalo through the hips and into the chest (came apart and again weighed only 193 grains). There are three things to remember when using leverguns in Africa: 1) Make an accurate shot at a good presentation within range limits, 2) Use a premium bullet that has been proven on large and African game, 3) remember you are the client that gets one good opportunity. The PH's job is to fix any problems that arise so you should not worry too much about charging game or fleeing game and the related bullet performance. My Tracker and I are right next to you with a 450 NE and a keen set of eyes and senses to find your game and assist you in fixing any problems.

[mergus]

Why would I want to shoot a wart hog? While part of me wants to say "because I just want to" and part of me wants to agree with Griff about how I paid for it, so, by God, I'd like to shoot it, the truth is I'd like a European style skull mount. I'm thinking head angled downward, 2 sets of tusks, oozing attitude. Would the wife have something to say about that? Oh Good Lord yes! But, she'd get over it....eventually....

Joe, speaking of caliber restrictions on large ungulates, does anyone ever hunt them with 12 ga. slug guns? Given all the advances in guns and loads, some of the better slugs have to right up there with the 45-70 in power. My buddy that wants to go with me on one of these safari's likes to put large holes in things with his 870, and he's pretty good with it. Does South Africa have any restrictions on slug guns?

Mergus

[piller]

I am still drying the wood for the cane, but when I finish it, you can see how a warthog tusk makes a nice looking cane handle. My Father is looking forward to carrying it.

[Canuck Bob]

I use this simple calculator, it seems reasonably accurate and a lot of fun to play with.

http://www.handloads.com/calc/

From this article on Beartooth using 43 gr. of Re 7 I got an estimate of 2000 fps, his data is a 355 gr cast heavy puncher and listed for two rifles, a S with a MG 22" and a P with an 18.5" tube.

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_no ... tes.htm/28

This indicates 3100 ft/lbs at the muzzle per the linked calculator.

Using the calculator in the above thread that is 4200 Joules! Pick the right bullet and prepare for a sore shoulder at the next range session!

Interestingly the 32 Special FTX load meets the requirement for 2700 Joules. I have zero knowledge about African hunting except as educated by our members like above. Still a guy can dream of kicking the bush with a 94 in Africa can't he!!! I suspect I'd have a gun bearer with my trusty old 444 handy.

Gun bearers, trackers, PHs, brandy after a day of stalking, and clean clothes, sure ain't wading through a muskeg swamp north of Lesser Slave Lake and a can of beans! I spent many many hours rereading J. R. Hunter's book as a kid. He ranked the Cape Buffalo as the most dangerous due to a nasty disposition, as always it is the attitude not the hardware up close.

[86er]

I cannot find any reference to 2700 Joules in the laws. Maybe it is just an outfitters recommendation. The various laws do state 4700 Joules for DG.

[vancelw]

Firearms

Smallest calibre 7 mm.
Minimum energy (Eo - muzzle velocity): 1350 Joule for springbuck, duiker etc.
2700 Joule for hartebeest, wildebeest, kudu, gemsbuck, eland etc.
5400 Joule for buffalo, elephant, rhino etc.

No solid point cartridge is allowed to be used on antelope or any other species.
Fully automatic weapons (e.g. AK 47 and other military hardware) are PROHIBITED.
Other self-loading, considered semi-automatic weapons are NOT PROHIBITED, but you can expect questions at the Airport of importation.
!! Handguns and automatic weapons are prohibited. !!

http://www.natron.net/napha/english/huntinglaws.html

This is from the Namibia PH site. Basically 2700 Joules for larger plains game.

I'll be going in August. If I decide to use the PH's rifle, it will be a .30-'06 for kudu, zebra, and gemsbok. If I take my rifles, it will be a Browning 71 or a Ruger .308

[vancelw]

I guessed a BC of .180 since I couldn't find a reference. If I'm wrong, it still doesn't change the muzzle energy.
Hornady's manual says 42.9 gr of RL-7 will get you ~1600 fps with a jacketed 350 gr bullet. I know cast will vary, but without chonographing the load we have to guess.

MPBR English.jpg

Report English.jpg

MPBR Metric.jpg

Report Metric.jpg

As you can see, you are right at 2700 joules. I was surprised. Below is more what I was expecting.

Here's what I use.

Report 325 FTX.jpg

[vancelw]

Here's the question....If I were to go on an African safari (and these ads are for plains animals, eland, kudu, warthogs, etc) I would want to take my 1978 Marlin 1895 in 45-70. My question is, given the minimum Joule requirement of 2700 Joules for eland, kudu, etc, would the loads I've been using, 43 grains of Reloader 7 behind a 350 gr Beartooth Bullet meet the 2700 Joule minimum?

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve ... 2301093651

Above is an interesting link about the requirements of African countries.

[Beaker]

why do the still use joules, the SI unit is newton meters.

[vancelw]

joule is energy.
newton-meter is torque.

Same, but different.