What is Worn?

[Pop Watts]

Walked into a gunshop in Goulburn (about 2 hours drive South West of Sydney) this week and asked if there were any old Winchesters for sale.
The guy behind the counter pulled out a model 1892 rifle in 25-20 with round barrel and full mag.
The serial number dated it to around 1920.
A bloke bought it in to trade on a modern bolt action. Apparently it was his Grandfathers and had been in the family since it was new.
Well it wasn't new when I saw it, but it was a straight old unmolested gun. Not much blue left, but the bore was good and timber was sound. the only problem I could see was that the hammer did not cock when the action was worked. The hammer just followed the bolt back to half cock.
Anyway, for 220 of my Australian dollars, I was happy to buy it.
Now, what is worn on this gun to stop the hammer from cocking?
Can any of you smart blokes out there tell me what parts I will need to replace on my new Winchester.
Well I do not have it yet because here in Australia we need to apply for a "permit to aquire" and wait until that arrives before we can take possesion of the gun. Did I mention that the permit costs $30!!!
Waiting patiently for my permit right now.
Any help would be appreciated.
Pop

[Hobie]

If somebody else doesn't get to it first, I'm working on a photo to illustrate. Have to go to work now, though....

[Hagler]

Pop,

Can you fully cock the hammer with your thumb, and have it stay back, without trying to cock it with the lever?

Shawn

[Aussie Chris]

Sounds like a nice old 92 pop. Wheres the bloody pics mate?

This permit to acquire thing is bs. Here in vic, with my last 1894 it set me back 9 bucks. Sounds to me like the jagged bits on the hammer may be worn where they engage the spring. But what would a youngin like me know

[kimwcook]

Hobie's working on your answer, Pop. It'll be along shortly.

[Les Staley]

Had the same thing happen with a 1939 issue 1894 in 30-30. thought maybe the nose of the hammer which the bolt cams back to full cock might have been worn.. but found the rifle very dirty inside with dried grease/dirt. I removed the butstock and hosed it down with gumout carb. cleaner, and took care of the problem.. took it out and killed a doe antelope with it last fall.. works good.. HTH Les

[Sixgun]

Pop,
In addition to what Les said, I've had 'em do that when the stock bolt was way too tight. On old guns that have lived in a dry environment and have had the buttstock slipped on and off a mess of times and the owner will crank the stock bolt to make 'em tight, therefore knocking things out of alignment. If its not the above, there's something mechanical wrong but nothing that cannot be fixed easily. ------------------Sixgun

[pwl44m]

My problem was due to a worn Hammer. I don't think it was worn so much, I think Someone tried to smooth the action up a bit by honing that nose and got it too low.
I first bought a new Hammer that didn't work without taking it to a Gunsmith and having it fitted. I sent it back and found a used one on Gun Broker. It was a direct replacement and perfect fit. Took about 5 minutes to install it. Worked perfect.
Someone mentioned that it could be dirty and also could You Cock it manually. If You can cock it manually I would lean toward a worn Hammer. If not then possibly dirty Sear engagement.. One of the 94s I got recently had a very light trigger pull which I did not like. After dissasembly and thorough cleaning it worked like it should. There are other factors to consider also, like worn Sear or hammer notch. some times Bubba gets hold of these things and then, well You get what Ya get. Again it isn' something that Caint be fixed.
I don't know if 94 hammers are the same or not but if they are I have a few.
Do keep Us posted. How long does it take to get a Permit ?
Perry

[williamranks]

I know of some things that will cause it, if you can cock the hammer manually.
The hammer lives in the lower tang and the lower tang is only held in place by the hammer screw and the tang screw through the stock. If you look at the bottom of the receiver and the fit where the lower tang meets the receiver is not smooth and almost invisible the tangs may be spread wider than designed. That will lower the hammer nose away from the bolt. I put a new stock on mine and did that, had to inlet deeper to get the tangs in their proper alignment.
Another cause could be the hammer nose or the bottom of the bolt is worn down.
I suppose a third cause could be the rails that support the bolt in the receiver are worn and the bolt is riding up over the hammer.

Bill

[Pop Watts]

Thanks for the replies.

Now to answer a few questions

The hammer did cock when I pulled it back manually.

Possibly that could mean a worn hammer face.

The bolt did not seem to have excessice movement so I do not think the rails are worn.

It takes fron 4 to 6 weeks to get a permit in NSW and it costs me $30!!! - you Mexicans (Victorians) are getting off cheap.

No pics because I do not have the gun in my possesion yet.

I have a few 92 parts, so when I get the gun it will get a total strip and clean and we will go from there.

Hey Aussie Chris - how is your 30WCF going???

Pop.

[Aussie Chris]

Good to see that it sounds like an easy fix pop. That 30WCF is going well. Havnt shot it since, havnt shot bloody anything since! Girls, cars, bikes and girls have been getting in the way.

Showed her off heaps to mates though, oldest thing ever in my hands from 1898

Now that I have the Jeep Wrangler will head out soon in my leave with the 444 for sambar. Have loaded up a few rounds for the 30WCF though...

Let us know how the '92 goes mate, and us Mexicans do have it ok. Ted (premier) is relaxing handgun shoots (was at least ten comp shoots a year for each fkn pistol- LEO or bloody not) so that 1911 may still be on the cards in the future...

Chris

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

Thanks for the replies.

Now to answer a few questions

The hammer did cock when I pulled it back manually.

Possibly that could mean a worn hammer face.

The bolt did not seem to have excessice movement so I do not think the rails are worn.

It takes fron 4 to 6 weeks to get a permit in NSW and it costs me $30!!! - you Mexicans (Victorians) are getting off cheap.

No pics because I do not have the gun in my possesion yet.

I have a few 92 parts, so when I get the gun it will get a total strip and clean and we will go from there.

Hey Aussie Chris - how is your 30WCF going???

Pop.

If it will cock manually then most likely you have some wear on the bottom of the bolt and the top of the hammer. Plus as Sixgun said an old worn and shrunk stock will allow the tangs to be pulled together slightly lifting the trigger. But, If you remove the stock and it persist more likely it’s the hammer/bolt wear.
Changing parts will sometimes cure this but can lead to other problems. What I’ve done in the past is take a slight amount of metal off the trigger nose. This lowers the nose enough so that the hammer notch can get past it.
To do that I use a craftsman wet sharp machine to do this. It will wet grind it, and the angle can be adjusted.