Feeding a Rossi model 92 or any other lever without choking

[flightsimmer]

I've noticed many people in several of the forums talking about their lever rifles choking on certain ammo types. I myself have been working on this problem.
For instance, mine will feed FMJFN 38 specials and FMJFN 357 Magnums just fine. It will not (of course) feed 38 special wadcuters, in fact it will double feed them because they are just too short, period. This rifle does not have a positive feed bolt as some bolt actions do.
Now it will feed 38 special LSWC but it chokes on 357 LSWC because the cartridge is binding on the case as it transition into the chamber. It would (appear) that the carrier is not lifting the cartridge quite enough (a few thousandths) to slide easily into the chamber but I may be wrong, it needs more study before I do any cutting.
It also chokes on 357 SJHP but FJHP seem to work OK.
The only reason I'm studying this problem is that I've got a ton of 38/357 LSWC that I cast and load that I wanted to use in combo with my S&W model 66-1. I really don't want to buy a new casting mold or commercially made lead bullets because I've got a ton of lead to use up.
I and others I'm sure would like to hear of your experiances with this problem.

[mikld]

I had a similar problem, but mine was with a M92 in .44 Magnum, but I understand the cures are the same. I finally came up with a couple solutions to shoot SWCs in my carbine. One solution was to use .44 Special brass and load up nearly to magnum velocities (I didn't have a problem with carbon fouling by Specials in Magnum chamber). Shorter OAL fed fine. In magnum brass I would seat the SWC deeper, and crimp just over the front band which would allow feeding. Again, shorter OAL fed fine. I understand you don't want to purchase another mold,but, my best solution, and easiest was to use Ranch Dog's RNFP bullet (which Ranch Dog designed for use in handgun cartridge lever rifles).
http://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/. May be of some help...

[Griff]

Leverguns ARE oal sensitive. Since the distance between the magazine and barrel planes are farther apart in a tubuluar mag levergun than a turnbolt, the transition angle is steeper. Duuring this transition, the difference in CG between longer and shorter cartridges CAN be quitw pronounced, rendering feed control problems critical.

If you want to enhance that feed control, increasing the flexibility in ammo selection, I'd suggest you get Nate Kiowa Jones' DVD from Steve's Gunz, and/or peruse the information at Maruarder's Rifle Tips.

[flightsimmer]

I should have mentioned that I'm using Lyman 158gn 358156 gas check, SWC cast lead bullets for both the 38 special, OAL 1.450" and 357 Magnum, OAL 1.590", a difference of .140". They work but the 357 Magnum catches if I lever it too slowly.

[JerryB]

I have a Rossi SRC 20".357 and my grandson has a Marlin 18" .357 both of which feed anything I can load plus any factory loads we have tried.I reckon we have been blessed with these two guns not a problem with either one in bullet choice. My Rossi Hartford .45 Colt feeds 255gr cast swc with no problems also.

[AJMD429]

Leverguns ARE oal sensitive. Since the distance between the magazine and barrel planes are farther apart in a tubuluar mag levergun than a turnbolt, the transition angle is steeper. During this transition, the difference in CG between longer and shorter cartridges CAN be quitw pronounced, rendering feed control problems critical.

Ahhh, just go with .44 Magnum, and get a Ruger 96. Their box-magazine always feeds well...

[Griff]

flightsimmer,

The wider the meplat the more problematic the feeding. That plus the sharp corner on the driving band will either hang up in the top of the chamber in the case of a wide meplat, or on the bottom of the chamber mouth on the driving band.

You could chamfer the chamber mouth to avoid the issue of the driving band getting hung up, and that MIGHT allow the wider meplats to feed. However, you're removing metal that's there to support the case.

Due to that drastic angle change I mentioned earlier, leverguns like round flat nose bullets.

[pricedo]

Leverguns ARE oal sensitive. Since the distance between the magazine and barrel planes are farther apart in a tubuluar mag levergun than a turnbolt, the transition angle is steeper. During this transition, the difference in CG between longer and shorter cartridges CAN be quitw pronounced, rendering feed control problems critical.

Ahhh, just go with .44 Magnum, and get a Ruger 96. Their box-magazine always feeds well...

Haven't had any problems feeding factory ammo through my 3 Rossi 92s.
The guns were a bit finicky out of the box but after a bit of filing, grinding, stoning & polishing & plain old dry cycling the actions smoothed out really well.
That DVD Instructional kit with the spring & SS mag follower from Steve's Gunz of Texas is easy to use and transformed my Rossi Puma .454 Casull into every levergunners dream come true .
The .357 Mag likes all the 125-158 grain factory jacked SP ammo I've tried in it.
The .44 Mag digests the Winchester "white box" 240 grain SPs without a hiccup.
The .454 Casull likes the Hornady 240 grain XTP ammo & most .45 LC ammo.

Have a Ruger 96/44 & love it.
The gun is not ammo sensitive as the M92s & has fed anything I put in it.
The Hornady 225 grain FTX ammo will cycle thru my 96/44 with my baby finger on the finger lever.
Trouble is that it's hard to get a used 96/44.
I haven't seen one on a used rack for years.

[FatJackDurham]

I had that problem bad with Bullseye remanufactured. It would butcher that lip on the bullet. I didn't have as much problem with the 38s because the rim of the cartridge was already in the grooves to pop up.

I would say trim the case and seat the ball a little deeper, making adjustments to your powder load to accomodate.

It was for that reason I bought the conical Hornady Cowboy 140 grain bullets. They feed 38 or 357 liike butter.

[flightsimmer]

OK, so I went to my favorite local gun shop this morning and tried every kind of 357 Magnum cartridge that they had in stock........................................................................NOT! Well they would have let me but that might have been pushing it just a bit, but I did look it all over and ended up getting some of Hornadys XTP 158gn full jacket hollow point ammo and it does a fine job in my Rossi 92 as well as my 4" S&W model 66-1 revolver so I feel all set for any serious work and if my home grown cast lead 357 SWC ammo chokes once in a while I can live with it for target practice. All of my 38 SWC do just fine and so do the 357 Magnums SWC if I cycle it briskly.

On another note, I went through their gun rack and found a 20" Rossi 92 in 45 Colt but I already have one, so moving on I find a 20" 454 Casull with red front and green rear fiber optic sights. Boy you can't miss with those sights day or night. Then I came across a 20" in 44 Magnum but none in 38/357, of course I already have one of those so I put them all back. I looked at several other brands but they were mostly 30-30 Win. caliber.

So when I got home I searched the web for 454 Casull and found it was a lot more powerful than the 45 Colt but I really don't have any use for it, so no interest there but then I see the specs for a 460 S&W Magnum, now there's a Cannon for you but I really don't have a need for it here in Indiana, maybe if I ever get to Alaska again.
Have a great day all.

[pricedo]

If I restricted myself to only owning guns that I have an absolute need for in regards to hunting & self/home protection I'd still have my Remington 870 pump 12 gauge & that's it.
The reason I own more guns is that I like guns & shooting.
With very few exceptions the game I've taken over the years could have been taken with shot or slugs from the 870 or a single shot 12 gauge for that matter.
Getting down to brass tacks..........the other guns including the 92s & their associated feeding problems actual or perceived are TOYS that help make life worth living.

[Dawg]

OK, so I went to my favorite local gun shop this morning and tried every kind of 357 Magnum cartridge that they had in stock........................................................................NOT! Well they would have let me but that might have been pushing it just a bit, but I did look it all over and ended up getting some of Hornadys XTP 158gn full jacket hollow point ammo and it does a fine job in my Rossi 92 as well as my 4" S&W model 66-1 revolver so I feel all set for any serious work and if my home grown cast lead 357 SWC ammo chokes once in a while I can live with it for target practice. All of my 38 SWC do just fine and so do the 357 Magnums SWC if I cycle it briskly.

On another note, I went through their gun rack and found a 20" Rossi 92 in 45 Colt but I already have one, so moving on I find a 20" 454 Casull with red front and green rear fiber optic sights. Boy you can't miss with those sights day or night. Then I came across a 20" in 44 Magnum but none in 38/357, of course I already have one of those so I put them all back. I looked at several other brands but they were mostly 30-30 Win. caliber.

So when I got home I searched the web for 454 Casull and found it was a lot more powerful than the 45 Colt but I really don't have any use for it, so no interest there but then I see the specs for a 460 S&W Magnum, now there's a Cannon for you but I really don't have a need for it here in Indiana, maybe if I ever get to Alaska again.
Have a great day all.

I am not too sure about how safe the Hornady XTP bullets are in a tube magazine. I think there is a possibility of chainfire danger. If you are going to pay that kind of money, why not just get the Lever evolution ammo?

[Leverdude]

My Rossi eats everything regardless of bullet except flush wadcutters. If you want a lever action that doesnt care about oal at all get a Marlin. If its running right empty cases will feed from the tube, might not enter the chamber nicely but they wont jam the gun up.

[Leverdude]

OK, so I went to my favorite local gun shop this morning and tried every kind of 357 Magnum cartridge that they had in stock........................................................................NOT! Well they would have let me but that might have been pushing it just a bit, but I did look it all over and ended up getting some of Hornadys XTP 158gn full jacket hollow point ammo and it does a fine job in my Rossi 92 as well as my 4" S&W model 66-1 revolver so I feel all set for any serious work and if my home grown cast lead 357 SWC ammo chokes once in a while I can live with it for target practice. All of my 38 SWC do just fine and so do the 357 Magnums SWC if I cycle it briskly.

On another note, I went through their gun rack and found a 20" Rossi 92 in 45 Colt but I already have one, so moving on I find a 20" 454 Casull with red front and green rear fiber optic sights. Boy you can't miss with those sights day or night. Then I came across a 20" in 44 Magnum but none in 38/357, of course I already have one of those so I put them all back. I looked at several other brands but they were mostly 30-30 Win. caliber.

So when I got home I searched the web for 454 Casull and found it was a lot more powerful than the 45 Colt but I really don't have any use for it, so no interest there but then I see the specs for a 460 S&W Magnum, now there's a Cannon for you but I really don't have a need for it here in Indiana, maybe if I ever get to Alaska again.
Have a great day all.

I am not too sure about how safe the Hornady XTP bullets are in a tube magazine. I think there is a possibility of chainfire danger. If you are going to pay that kind of money, why not just get the Lever evolution ammo?

Why would XTPs create a chain fire danger? I'v used an aweful lot of them without any troubles, theyre hollow points.

[flightsimmer]

They had the Hornady "leverevolution" ammo there in stock and I may go back and buy some later. Their all kind of pricey to shoot at a target just for fun. Hunting or self defence is a different story.
The Hornady, XTP full metal jacket hollow point ammo cannot chain fire, any more than any other flat point bullet.

OK, so I went to my favorite local gun shop this morning and tried every kind of 357 Magnum cartridge that they had in stock........................................................................NOT! Well they would have let me but that might have been pushing it just a bit, but I did look it all over and ended up getting some of Hornadys XTP 158gn full jacket hollow point ammo and it does a fine job in my Rossi 92 as well as my 4" S&W model 66-1 revolver so I feel all set for any serious work and if my home grown cast lead 357 SWC ammo chokes once in a while I can live with it for target practice. All of my 38 SWC do just fine and so do the 357 Magnums SWC if I cycle it briskly.

On another note, I went through their gun rack and found a 20" Rossi 92 in 45 Colt but I already have one, so moving on I find a 20" 454 Casull with red front and green rear fiber optic sights. Boy you can't miss with those sights day or night. Then I came across a 20" in 44 Magnum but none in 38/357, of course I already have one of those so I put them all back. I looked at several other brands but they were mostly 30-30 Win. caliber.

So when I got home I searched the web for 454 Casull and found it was a lot more powerful than the 45 Colt but I really don't have any use for it, so no interest there but then I see the specs for a 460 S&W Magnum, now there's a Cannon for you but I really don't have a need for it here in Indiana, maybe if I ever get to Alaska again.
Have a great day all.

I am not too sure about how safe the Hornady XTP bullets are in a tube magazine. I think there is a possibility of chainfire danger. If you are going to pay that kind of money, why not just get the Lever evolution ammo?

[Dawg]

They had the Hornady "leverevolution" ammo there in stock and I may go back and buy some later. Their all kind of pricey to shoot at a target just for fun. Hunting or self defence is a different story.
The Hornady, XTP full metal jacket hollow point ammo cannot chain fire, any more than any other flat point bullet.

OK, so I went to my favorite local gun shop this morning and tried every kind of 357 Magnum cartridge that they had in stock........................................................................NOT! Well they would have let me but that might have been pushing it just a bit, but I did look it all over and ended up getting some of Hornadys XTP 158gn full jacket hollow point ammo and it does a fine job in my Rossi 92 as well as my 4" S&W model 66-1 revolver so I feel all set for any serious work and if my home grown cast lead 357 SWC ammo chokes once in a while I can live with it for target practice. All of my 38 SWC do just fine and so do the 357 Magnums SWC if I cycle it briskly.

On another note, I went through their gun rack and found a 20" Rossi 92 in 45 Colt but I already have one, so moving on I find a 20" 454 Casull with red front and green rear fiber optic sights. Boy you can't miss with those sights day or night. Then I came across a 20" in 44 Magnum but none in 38/357, of course I already have one of those so I put them all back. I looked at several other brands but they were mostly 30-30 Win. caliber.

So when I got home I searched the web for 454 Casull and found it was a lot more powerful than the 45 Colt but I really don't have any use for it, so no interest there but then I see the specs for a 460 S&W Magnum, now there's a Cannon for you but I really don't have a need for it here in Indiana, maybe if I ever get to Alaska again.
Have a great day all.

I am not too sure about how safe the Hornady XTP bullets are in a tube magazine. I think there is a possibility of chainfire danger. If you are going to pay that kind of money, why not just get the Lever evolution ammo?

I was thinking about the FTX bullets.....I bought a couple of boxes of Critical Defense rounds, and the hollow points are pointy enough they fit nicely in the primers of the rounds in front. I didnt want to chance it, so I used them in my revolver.

I have never tried the XTP's, looks like a good one to add to the arsenal though.

[flightsimmer]

Quote; I was thinking about the FTX bullets.....I bought a couple of boxes of Critical Defense rounds, and the hollow points are pointy enough they fit nicely in the primers of the rounds in front. I didnt want to chance it, so I used them in my revolver.

Well Hornady claims they are made specificly for the lever action rifles, that's why they call them LEVERevolution.

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/52501-1.html

[Dawg]

Quote; I was thinking about the FTX bullets.....I bought a couple of boxes of Critical Defense rounds, and the hollow points are pointy enough they fit nicely in the primers of the rounds in front. I didnt want to chance it, so I used them in my revolver.

Well Hornady claims they are made specificly for the lever action rifles, that's why they call them LEVERevolution.

Big difference between the Critical defense rounds and the Leverevolution rounds. If you ever get a chance to get some of the Critical Defense rounds with the FTX bullets in your hand, you will see what I am talking about.

The FTX bullets in the Leverevolution ammo has a very big hollow point with a nice soft polymer insert that sticks out quite a bit.

On the other hand, the FTX bullets in the Critical Defense rounds have a bullet that has a very small hollow point, and they are quite pointy, and have an insert that is virtually flush with the end of the cavity. I would hesitate to use them in a lever gun, as the ends of the bullet fit quite nicely within the diameter of the primer.

[pricedo]

OK, so I went to my favorite local gun shop this morning and tried every kind of 357 Magnum cartridge that they had in stock........................................................................NOT! Well they would have let me but that might have been pushing it just a bit, but I did look it all over and ended up getting some of Hornadys XTP 158gn full jacket hollow point ammo and it does a fine job in my Rossi 92 as well as my 4" S&W model 66-1 revolver so I feel all set for any serious work and if my home grown cast lead 357 SWC ammo chokes once in a while I can live with it for target practice. All of my 38 SWC do just fine and so do the 357 Magnums SWC if I cycle it briskly.

On another note, I went through their gun rack and found a 20" Rossi 92 in 45 Colt but I already have one, so moving on I find a 20" 454 Casull with red front and green rear fiber optic sights. Boy you can't miss with those sights day or night. Then I came across a 20" in 44 Magnum but none in 38/357, of course I already have one of those so I put them all back. I looked at several other brands but they were mostly 30-30 Win. caliber.

So when I got home I searched the web for 454 Casull and found it was a lot more powerful than the 45 Colt but I really don't have any use for it, so no interest there but then I see the specs for a 460 S&W Magnum, now there's a Cannon for you but I really don't have a need for it here in Indiana, maybe if I ever get to Alaska again.
Have a great day all.

I am not too sure about how safe the Hornady XTP bullets are in a tube magazine. I think there is a possibility of chainfire danger. If you are going to pay that kind of money, why not just get the Lever evolution ammo?

Why would XTPs create a chain fire danger? I'v used an aweful lot of them without any troubles, theyre hollow points.

I've pumped hundreds of 240 & 300 grain XTPs through my Rossi Puma 92 in .454 Casull with no problem.
XTPs are hollow points & when they're stacked in a tube magazine they are hollow over primer so there can be no direct pressure on the primer.

[pricedo]

Quote; I was thinking about the FTX bullets.....I bought a couple of boxes of Critical Defense rounds, and the hollow points are pointy enough they fit nicely in the primers of the rounds in front. I didnt want to chance it, so I used them in my revolver.

Well Hornady claims they are made specificly for the lever action rifles, that's why they call them LEVERevolution.

Big difference between the Critical defense rounds and the Leverevolution rounds. If you ever get a chance to get some of the Critical Defense rounds with the FTX bullets in your hand, you will see what I am talking about.

The FTX bullets in the Leverevolution ammo has a very big hollow point with a nice soft polymer insert that sticks out quite a bit.

On the other hand, the FTX bullets in the Critical Defense rounds have a bullet that has a very small hollow point, and they are quite pointy, and have an insert that is virtually flush with the end of the cavity. I would hesitate to use them in a lever gun, as the ends of the bullet fit quite nicely within the diameter of the primer.

I use the LeveRevolution FTX ammo in my ,357 Mag & .44 Mag Rossi Puma 92s & have had no problems with it.
Hornady claims the soft FTX points won't harden up in cold weather..........it'll be quite a lawsuit if that's not true & somebody blows their head off in a magazine chain reaction.
I can see a possibility of a chain fire if a FTX tip gets knocked or scraped off by rough treatment and then loaded in a gun with a tube magazine.
I tried to scrape a FTX tip off the top of a bullet and they're on there really really good............you'd pretty well have to remove the FTX tip intentionally with a knife or other sharp instrument.
I often carry my Ruger 96/44 when deer hunting and the bullet tips are no longer an issue.

[Leverdude]

OK, so I went to my favorite local gun shop this morning and tried every kind of 357 Magnum cartridge that they had in stock........................................................................NOT! Well they would have let me but that might have been pushing it just a bit, but I did look it all over and ended up getting some of Hornadys XTP 158gn full jacket hollow point ammo and it does a fine job in my Rossi 92 as well as my 4" S&W model 66-1 revolver so I feel all set for any serious work and if my home grown cast lead 357 SWC ammo chokes once in a while I can live with it for target practice. All of my 38 SWC do just fine and so do the 357 Magnums SWC if I cycle it briskly.

On another note, I went through their gun rack and found a 20" Rossi 92 in 45 Colt but I already have one, so moving on I find a 20" 454 Casull with red front and green rear fiber optic sights. Boy you can't miss with those sights day or night. Then I came across a 20" in 44 Magnum but none in 38/357, of course I already have one of those so I put them all back. I looked at several other brands but they were mostly 30-30 Win. caliber.

So when I got home I searched the web for 454 Casull and found it was a lot more powerful than the 45 Colt but I really don't have any use for it, so no interest there but then I see the specs for a 460 S&W Magnum, now there's a Cannon for you but I really don't have a need for it here in Indiana, maybe if I ever get to Alaska again.
Have a great day all.

I am not too sure about how safe the Hornady XTP bullets are in a tube magazine. I think there is a possibility of chainfire danger. If you are going to pay that kind of money, why not just get the Lever evolution ammo?

Why would XTPs create a chain fire danger? I'v used an aweful lot of them without any troubles, theyre hollow points.

I've pumped hundreds of 240 & 300 grain XTPs through my Rossi Puma 92 in .454 Casull with no problem.
XTPs are hollow points & when they're stacked in a tube magazine they are hollow over primer so there can be no direct pressure on the primer.

I know, thats why I asked.

[flightsimmer]

OK, after much time and study and trial and error I have come to the conclusion that there is nothing wrong with my rifle at all, it's just fine. The problem is as others have said, the shape of the bullet and/or the AOL length of the cartridge. Back when this rifle was designed, most bullets were conical flat points. The 357 Magnum case itself has nothing to do with the problem and it feeds just fine. The guide ramps are just fine and work well.
But this has not been a fruitless exercise, I have learned much about the model 92' and enjoyed every minute of it.

I did pick up those Hornady LEVERevolution FTX 140gn cartridges today and they work great. Their supposed to clock at 1850 fps with 1064 ft. lbs energy with an 18" barrel at the muzzle. I don't think I want to use them in my handgun though, I've got better ones for that.

I finally found a brand new Marlin 1894C with a cross-bolt safety today and gave it a try, man was it stiff. I couldn't lever it from the shooting position, I had to cock it like my old Daisy Red Ryder BB gun. Once the lever was unlocked it worked OK but was stiff so I finally put it back in the rack. I know their not all like that. Probably just like the Rossi, it needs some tender loving care but for that price I'll let someone else do it.
Have a great day all.

[bobbyjack]

If I restricted myself to only owning guns that I have an absolute need for in regards to hunting & self/home protection I'd still have my Remington 870 pump 12 gauge & that's it.
The reason I own more guns is that I like guns & shooting.
With very few exceptions the game I've taken over the years could have been taken with shot or slugs from the 870 or a single shot 12 gauge for that matter.
Getting down to brass tacks..........the other guns including the 92s & their associated feeding problems actual or perceived are TOYS that help make life worth living.

Amen to that brother but you would still need a Wincester model 67 for the small stuff!

Bob