OT- How bad a pistol shot am I??

Dastook · Post by **Dastook** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 2:57 pm

Laid my levergun down today and took my Sig 229 .40 S&W semi auto to the range. I haven't shot this gun in a couple of years and at 25 yrds. off hand could only hit a ten inch plate about 50% of the time. How bad is this. Let me hear from all you pistol shooters out there.

JReed · Post by **JReed** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:00 pm

With semi autos I do as well as you do. Now give me one of my Vaqueros and it is a whole different story. Different weapons take different techniques.

Hillbilly · Post by **Hillbilly** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:30 pm

to shoot that pistol more. I dont think I'd pick that Sig to shoot bullseye comp with. With a little practice you will be all over that plate at 25 yards.

Thats a combat arm...how do you shoot at 25 feet?

Sights focused...target blurry
Use the tip of the finger and SQUEEZE... you should be suprised when the hammer drops

Have fun... set goals and remember that perfect practice produces perfect preformance
~Hill

Andrew · Post by **Andrew** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:44 pm

You shoot better than me, but I don't set the bar very high.

After it starts to get warm again I will find out how good I really am with the ROA.

airedaleman · Post by **airedaleman** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 4:33 pm

Seven yards! Real gun fight distance. In Mass, max distance in qualifications has been 15 yards for the past I don't how long. Try the FBI Q target...

Pisgah · Post by **Pisgah** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:01 pm

Dastook, you need to shoot that gun more.

I shoot at least once a week -- but, maybe ony 10 or twelve shots aduring a "session". The amount of practice is not as important to me as the quality. Move in closer, focus on the basics -- sight picture, trigger control. Don't wear yourself out, quit when you get tired. But, do it again soon, and keep doing it, gradually moving up the range until you can at least keep all those shots on that plate.

To me, shooting a handgun is like riding a bicycle. Once you've learned, you never forget how, but if you haven't been on a bike for 2 years you're going to be pretty wobbly for a while when you climb back on.

Post by **Old Savage** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:04 pm

Time for some practice.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:23 pm

It's in all likely in the grip and trigger finger. Dry fire at home watching TV and when you're holding and pulling the trigger the same way everytime (and you can see the front sight wobble while dry firing), go out and start at 10 feet and don't move back until you're putting them all in a small hole. Repeat often......And no, my iron sight offhand revolver shooting is not what it should be......

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:37 pm

I'd say get a GOOD quality 22 pistol and shoot it a LOT if you want to improve your pistol shooting. The Smith K-22 I have would make 6 for 6 on an 18" wide by 36" tall steel plate at 300 yards. Takes a while to get the sight picture worked out, but it isnt that tough to work out when you have some basics in hand. The same Smith K-22 will do under 1 1/2" at 25 yards standing.

JimT · Post by **JimT** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:39 pm

You should be asking, "How Good can I get?" and "What do I have to do to get there?"

To compare your skills with others in a friendly environment, you need to attend one of the CSA gatherings and see how others do. Use some of their guns, let them use yours and I think you will come away asking yourself the two questions above ... and maybe have a few answers.

It's a no-pressure setting. Lots of fun and lots of good food and good stories.

Lastmohecken · Post by **Lastmohecken** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 6:08 pm

Malamute gave some very good advice. Get a .22 revolver or auto if you want and practice. Don't plink too much at first, get some good 25yd bullseye targets and shoot at them. Watch you trigger control, probably above everything else, that and your front sight.

I spent a lot of my twentys and thirtys shooting Bullseye matches, IPSC matches, NRA Hunter Silhouette, and later on IDPA. I piddled with the CASS shooting a little bit too.

On a service pistol like your 229, trigger control is your biggest challenge. It's not a target gun, but it should be capable of probably 2 1/2 inches to 4 inches at 25yds, maybe even better, but with you shooting it offhand, those groups will probably be a little larger. I personally have never been very impressed with the usual accuracy of the 40 caliber service autos. I had a Glock 23 that would be hard pressed to shoot much better then 5 or 6 inch groups at 25yds, where my Custom 1911's in 45ACP would shoot inside of 2 inches pretty eaisly at the same distance.

I now have a custom 40cal Browning High Power that will probably do 3 inches at 25yds.

As a comparison I used to shoot a Smith and Wesson model 41 Target 22 with a scope on it, that off of a rest would group 10 rounds inside of an inch, easy at 25yds, and I have shot groups with the same gun at a Hundred yards that would usually average around 2.5 inches off of a rest.

Maybe that will give you some idea of what can be done.

Lastmohecken · Post by **Lastmohecken** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 6:28 pm

Don't get too caught up with the proper grip. Your grip should be consistant and the gun should fit your hand a good as possible, sometimes changing grips for some aftermarket ones, helps, but I am not sure if much is available for the Sig 229.

I have had to relearn this lesson several times, but the last time it was driven home to me, was a few years ago when I was shooting IDPA which is combat pistol shooting in case anyone doesn't know.

Anyway, I was sitting at a table talking to Bill Wilson of Wilson Combat Handguns. I shot in the same club he did. I was having some trouble with my weak hand shooting, which is one handed shooting with the off hand, in my case the right hand. I stated that I believed it was the fact that my grip was different on the gun, which was responsible for the change in point of impact that I was experiencing during weak handed shooting.

He informed me that no it was not my grip that was causing it, it was my trigger control, and that I needed to practice more slow fire, with my weak hand, while being very aware of my trigger control. That was a good lesson for me, and it was so true. I went home and proved it to myself in a matter of minutes that my problem was definately trigger control, and this was after years of shooting. It just never dawned on me that I still needed to work on my trigger control and I just knew it had to be my grip. I even experimented with varying my grip, and as long as I paid attention to trigger control the bullets went to the same place, of course you do have to put the sights there too.

Dastook · Post by **Dastook** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 7:39 pm

Thanks for all the suggestions. It's time for practice, practice using the proper tech.

new pig hunter · Post by **new pig hunter** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 7:41 pm

Take heart, you're better than I am !!!!

Cheers,

Carl

gundownunder · Post by **gundownunder** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 8:45 pm

Perfect
Practice
Produces
Perfect
Performance

What more can I say

You can also download the US military pistol marksmanship manual off the internet, I did and it is 100 pages of the best info I ever read regarding handgun shooting.

And just so you dont get disheartened, at 25 yds I'm all over the barn door too, but at 25 ft I can put 6 into 6" in 6 sec. with a single six.

66GTO · Post by **66GTO** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:12 pm

When I went through basic firearms training as a rookie agent I heard two things constantly from the instructors: trigger control and sight picture, trigger control and sight picture, trigger control...........ad infinitum. They always stressed a "surprise shot" using a steady trigger pull, no jerking the trigger. That was a lot easier with the S&W Model 15 wheel guns we used back then than with the new polymer DAO semi-autos that law enforcement use these days.

Practice that and you will improve.

I don't shoot as well as did before I retired. Some of that is failing eyesight, but most of it is lack of practice. One of the things I miss most since I retired is that I no longer have access to a government issued pistol, all the free ammunition I can shoot, and a range at my disposal (I was our firearms instructor and range officer for 15 years).

I recently bought a Browning Buckmark .22 pistol so my practice time should increase. The range and the ammo isn't free anymore, but I can afford to shoot it all I want.

By the way, 50% on a pie plate with that pistol at 25 yds after a two year layoff is nothing to be ashamed of.

horsesoldier03 · Post by **horsesoldier03** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:21 pm

I started shooting pistols back in my days in college when I was on a PPC team while I was going to school for Criminal Justice. I continually shot expert and almost was awarded Master. However I joined the ARMY and didnt shoot pistols for a long long time. Since then I have started back into it a little. UNFORTUNATELY as we all know, SHOOTING SKILLS ARE PARRISHABLE!!! Especially for pistols!

ursavus.elemensis · Post by **ursavus.elemensis** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:31 pm

I shoot pistols and revolvers for fun, to try to improve my skills, and to train for personal defense. I have Crimson Trace lasergrips on all of my handguns now. I am still astounded at the difference that lasergrips can make in shooting accuracy, but what is really valuable to me is the way that the laser dot on the target helps me so much to make the most of my dry fire practice time/effort. I dry fire my handguns a lot, and I have always done so. Yet, I would think I was doing pretty well with my dry fire, then go to the range and not be able to hit well at all. With the laser, my practice is more useful to me. If you move that muzzle or wobble that gun, the laser tells you what you are doing wrong. For me, the lasergrips make each of the reasons I shoot handguns more successful (shooting for fun, to try to improve my skills, and to train for personal defense).

Is it somehow cheating yourself to shoot with lasergrips? I'm sure some folks think so. To me, this is similar to the idea that relying on a GPS unit for hiking is somehow cheating because real men use topo maps and compass. I do lots of hiking deep in the woods, and for years I resisted getting a GPS unit to use while hiking. I had topo maps and compass, and I know how to use them. Well, eventually I got one, and I have never regretted it. It just makes it more fun to hike now. And, yes, I still take the maps and the compass, and the back-up compass, too. But I enjoy hiking more with my GPS unit. I enjoy shooting my handguns more with my lasergrips.

tman · Post by **tman** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 3:42 pm

i'm a good pistol shot, when the .357 is loaded with .38 wadcutters. i guess i don't shoot enough when recoil gets above that. my father is going on 88yrs. and he can outshoot me regardless of the firearm used. he shoots alot less than i do, so natural ability must count for something, iguess.

RIHMFIRE · Post by **RIHMFIRE** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 7:57 pm

PRACTICE...PRACTICE...AND MORE PRACTICE...
BUT I ONLY SHOOT MY AUTO ONCE IN A WHILE
AND AS LONG AS I CAN STAY WITH A MAJORITY OF MY SHOTS
ARE WITHIN A 10 INCH PLATE AT TEN YARDS...I'M SATISFIED...
MOST CONFLICTS ARE CLOSE UP.....IF YOU CAN DRAW AND
SNAP SHOOT AND HIT THE TARGET YOUR DOING FINE...
AND I AGREE WITH JREED....GIVE ME A WHEEL GUN ANY DAY...
Malamute HAS VERY GOOD POINT TOO.

Lobo · Post by **Lobo** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 8:03 pm

Hey Guys,

I have a buddy, David, who shoots his Ruger P90 (45 ACP) at least 50 rounds a day. He keeps a reloading log for his count. As far as I know, the pistol is factory stock, although 700,000 rounds have probably polished the internals fairly well. He can hit a 3 pound coffee can at a hundred yards with scary frequency!!

Scott64A · Post by **Scott64A** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:11 pm

I had never really shot pistols all that much, except a handful of them that my friends owned over the years. I did ok with them, but didn't have to be good with them because all I owned were rifles and shotguns.

Welp, I bought a Ruger BH and upon shooting it, I learned that pistols tell on you! I tried this and that techique with the same results, (shooting left and high, with a cruddy group,) until I read this man's words.

Here's a link to read about his techniques.

http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob85.html

I applied this technique to a single action and instantly shot a three inch group at 25ft.

As I've gotten more used to it, I can put them inside of two inches at 25ft, and when shooting a friend's gun, the same principles are at work, and I shoot good groups.

This guy advocates a strong stance, and not the squaw grip with a weaver stance. His stance is slightly turned, belt buckle at 45 degrees to the target, and the grip is tight.
The tighter and higher you hold the gun, the less it will be able to move on you.

FWIW, it helped me a ton.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:38 pm

The key is PRACTICE.

I've got friends who can use old crappy 3" barrel .22's they've shot 5,000 rounds through and hit soda cans at 50 yards 4 of 5 times, and friends who have finely tuned pistols with custom sights who can't keep 4 of 5 shots in a 12" circle at 25 feet.

I agree with the dry-fire practice and the Crimson Trace. There is also something called "Beam-Shot" that is a help - Cabela's sells them still I think.

If possible, use a .22 similar to your 'big' gun to save ammo costs.

Kansas Ed · Post by **Kansas Ed** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:41 pm

Mom to Dad: "Bob, there's a coyote in the barn lot!!"

Dad: "Aww, he's just nosing around, he'll leave in a minute."

Mom: "Well aren't you going to do anything!?"

Dad: "No, leave him alone and he'll go away."

Mom: "Well if you aren't going to shoot him, I will."

Mom goes to the bedroom, grabs her FIE Single action .22 (I could throw rocks more accurate than that pistol.) Steps to the back door and promptly starts blazing away, putting a couple of bullet holes through the side of the barn. Just about a foot above HER pontoon boat which is parked in the barn.

Sounds like your shooting is pretty good compared to where I came from...

BTW: We still bring that incident up quite often....

Ed

bobbyjack · Post by **bobbyjack** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:42 am

JimT wrote:You should be asking, "How Good can I get?" and "What do I have to do to get there?"

To compare your skills with others in a friendly environment, you need to attend one of the CSA gatherings and see how others do. Use some of their guns, let them use yours and I think you will come away asking yourself the two questions above ... and maybe have a few answers.

It's a no-pressure setting. Lots of fun and lots of good food and good stories.

JIM YOU HARD OF HEARING? CAUSE WE SURE CAN READ IT!

Bob

RSY · Post by **RSY** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:22 am

I finally got good years ago when I started paying attention to things like this:

http://www.piedmontnrainstructors.org/C ... tRight.pdf

But remember that doing well at "bullseye" type shooting is no guarantee of the same in a tactical situation.

scott

OT- How bad a pistol shot am I??

OT- How bad a pistol shot am I??

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