Exotic Hunting... In Texas.

[Panzercat]

Am watching this program on 60 minutes (thanks)- ordinarily mind numbing IMO -and have been surprised to find out that Texas is home to some of the largest populations of exotic African animals in the United States... Some of which are nearly extinct in Africa where they're originally from. They largly exist on private ranches, who are in turn able to sustain their breeding operations through limited hunting... A Texas Safari as it were. Of course, there are groups that oppose this and the interviewer continues to press how can you hunt these endangered animals, which ironically aren't endangered in Texas. Africa, sure. Texas, they thrive; including Addax, Axis Deer,Aoudad, Blackbuck, Fallow, Bongo, Eland, Impala, Kudu, Nyala, Roan, Sable, Wildebeest, Waterbuck, Zebra, etc etc.

The saddest portion of this entire peice was the environmentalist who has been pressing her organizations agenda in federal court and largely succeeding, demanding that the practice of hunting for profit be ended and that- the part that had me beating my head upon the desk -that they only belonged in Africa... Because they're apparently so much better off there.

Anyway, to say we have hunting enthusiest here is an understatement, so here's something a bit close to home

[Old Ironsights]

I know you are new and exited, so I'll cut you some slack for not knowing that our very own "86er" runs an exotic op in TX...

A few of us have been down there. He runs a great camp.

[Panzercat]

Not only am I exited, but excited too
But yeah, I'll take any slack I can get. Feel free to disregard this overly obvious topic then. The take on the 'ZOMG hunting for profit (and by extension raising food for profit, apparently) is bad' just annoyed the stuff out of me.

[Old Ironsights]

Not only am I exited, but excited too

Ain't "auto-correct" great when typing on tiny keyboards with fat fingers?

But yeah, I'll take any slack I can get. Feel free to disregard this overly obvious topic then. The take on the 'ZOMG hunting for profit (and by extension raising food for profit, apparently) is bad' just annoyed the stuff out of me.

Life's no fun if ya can't poke a guy in the ribs with an obvious stick every once in a while.

[gak]

I think you meant 60 Minutes, and yes very interesting.

[86er]

The sad story on the Scimitar Horned Oryx, Dama Gazelle and Addax is the same as what happened to the Barisingha. We have plenty of them in TX and they are in many other states too. Now, a handful of ranches are gearing up to go through the permit process for CITES to hunt these. They are buying up a bunch of each species in the hopes that they can get the permits and control the hunting of these animals. Where we were getting $2000 or less for SHO and $3500 or less for the other two animals, these ranches are saying they will make a "your choice" price of $6000. Less availability and higher price makes the species less interesting to breed, maintain and buy/sell/trade for ranchers like me. Eventually the population will be smaller than ever and isolated on a few select properties. We had Barisingha deer for years and hunted a handful every year. When they became CITES we could not justify a legitimate "educational purpose", "crop, property or other damage", or "herd health issues" to get permits to shoot them. The remaining bunch on the ranch at the time was around 16 head. We no longer could dart, trap, move, sell, harass, interfere with, contain, isolate, abuse, neglect or kill any of them. While some of this is ridiculous because we would never harass, abuse or neglect any animals the Barisingha lost all value to us. They were 16 300 pound animals eating a ton of food and competing with the other species that had sales value to us. We just "ignored" the Barasingha and let them do their own thing. They did poorly in a few ice storms and mortality was high. The inbreeding starting to take its toll with a lot of still-born fawns and some maternity deaths. Eventually the herd was down to just 5 animals and over a 3 year period they did not breed in spite of being divided among both sexes. This year I have not seen a single one on the ranch. I think they fiinally all succumbed to the perils of mother nature. This is the course of the other animals that were put on the CITES list and require special permitting, and circumstance to do anything but look at. The activists in the "humane" groups don't really care about these animals. They have an anti-gun, anti-hunting agenda. The animals are much worse off and more likely to one day become extinct under the CITES permit system. We covetted and cared for our SHO herd for years and had a healthy reproducing herd established. Now, there are a few left and they will all be sold (hunted or alive) by April 4th 2012 before it is illegal for me to even think about them and they cost me money as they waste away. I really do hope the ranches that will get into the permitting system can sustain a large, reproducing herd or herd for the sake of these species.

[smokenrust]

Holy SMOKES!!! I didn't know I have been in the presence here on this board with one of the great ones... like '86er' and others.
I know that theres many on here with talents ten times,,, no, hundred times greater at doing things then some ol cuss like me. Building guns, special collections, Once in a life time hunts many times over, Etc just like, WOW!
an all I do is farm a little and raise a some beefers and love my mostly mid fifties, sixties and seventies levers.
Well, I seen that sixty minute show too and I just couldn't believe there was so much "safari" in Texas... I loved that thought, people keeping the so called "exotics" alive and doing well here and helping replenish the origional habitats back in Africa with animals again...
Yes, they were/are selling hunting chances at these animals here but it is the way that they can provide more life to the animal kingdom... All part of nature really, 'cept man comes along today with the smoke pole instead of a bow and arrow or a javelin.
Well it really burnt my hide to see the dizzy animal rightist making life impossible with trying to get and getting laws oriented into their line of thought. They would rather there be no exotic animals hunted and shot in Texas even to the point if all the ranches disposed of all their animals. ... And you can bet that they certainly did not offer to pay for all the care , upkeep and other costs to the animal owners to stop the 'paid hunts" .... Pretty short sighted on their poor fuzzy utopian vision. - "the exotic animals would be better off in Africa" - There they really are on their own against Africa's real wild life.
This group of people are no better than the atheists that want no mention of religion heard in their ears or seen in their sight.... Or the anti gun groups that want no one to have any guns.
86er's comment "they fiinally all succumbed to the perils of mother nature. This is the course of the other animals that were put on the CITES list and require special permitting, and circumstance to do anything but look at. The activists in the "humane" groups don't really care about these animals." I wonder what it would take to reverse that CITES law?
Maybe there should be a place where they put the animal rights groups out amidst a bunch of hungry lions...? Was just a thought...
I say to all those that have ranches with the Exotic animals, I wish you the best of luck you can have to compete and remove anti-hunters from your future growth. Keep up the good work as long as you can.
Smoke n Rust

[Blaine]

If you want to eff up a good thang, give it to the gubment

[86er]

Here's another little known "fault" of the CITES permit system. A "fee" is collected by a private non-profit organization (there is only one) known as Conservation Force. They take their "administrative fee" and forward the rest of the fee to the animals country of origin. It is supposed to be used for the conservation of the species in their native lands. However, nobody monitors how the money is spent. The most aggregious example is the Eld's Deer. There are no native Eld's Deer left - they are extinct in nature. So, when Conservation Force sends hunters fees to IndoChina, how does the money go to Eld's Deer conservation? I bet it goes in someones pocket - like a lot of the fees for other animals regardless of the country. Why not use the money to invest in the species conservation here - on non-hunting ranches, public areas, etc. Much like the Gemsbok, Aoudad and Ibex are free-range and healthy in both hunting and non-hunting areas in New Mexico. Don't get me started.....

[markinalpine]

If you want to eff up a good thang, give it to the gubment

Yes, I'm reminded of that about twice a week while I'm unblocking the 1.6(3.2, 4.8, +) gallon per (non)flush toilet mandated by the gubmint to "save" water.
Mark

[piller]

I have hunted with 86er on the ranch near Hondo, and he and Richard M. run a very clean and ethical operation. The idiots who want the fees and want to force people to stop making a profit are very shor sighted. They don't see that their Governmental handout depends on people who make a profit sending their tax money it. Please don't think this is political, as i am not railing against taxes, but against the witless wonders who want to stop all hunting. By the way, the animals I eat for food empty their lower intestinal waste products on what the witless wonders eat. Finally, if you want to see just how well done a game ranch where you hunt imported species can be, contact 86er and go hunt something with him.

[crs]

Sic 'em Piller!
I too, have hunted with 86er a few times at his ranch near Hondo. Fun stuff and if you ask, he might take you to the neat bber garten where we went after my bison hunt. Here is a description from a story I wrote about the hunt for the DWWC newsletter:

" To cap off a very busy and rewarding day, we piled into one of the ranch four door pickups and drove to the town of D’Hanis, just west of Hondo, for dinner at the D’Hanis Out Back Beer Garden. This quaint place features a pick-your-own steak meat market; grill your own steak on their parking lot grill, a bar where you order beer of soft drinks, and side dishes of a small salad and French fries. Despite the summer heat, the place was packed to enjoy the country music band, which was very good at reproducing (covering) everyone’s favorite songs. It seemed that everyone there knew each other and the small dance floor was soon busy. I recommend this place for a casual dinner if you are hunting in the Hondo area, but it should be more enjoyable in cooler weather."

[piller]

CRS and I were there at the same time, and he got first chance at a couple of Nilgai. He got his, and as soon as it was over, the other one disappeared. We all were looking for it, and if anyone thinks that hunting on a Texas Game ranch is a matter of driving up, stopping, and shooting what you pay for, they are in for a surprise. I finally had to give up and go for a Scimitar Horned Oryx, and even that was a real challenge. They are a beige color with some darker brown striping on them, and in sandy soil, they blend in well enough to make the manufacturers of Real Tree envious. The oryx was a real nice one, I thought it was a trophy, and it tasted great. The animals roam free within a rather large area surrounded by high fence, much like the hunting in South Africa. There is enough area in there that you can really work hard at finding your animal. By the way, after my Scimitar was in the truck being hauled out, the Nilgai reappeared. High fences simply keep the game within the area, but when the area covers almost a square mile of trees and brush, that is a lot of area to search.

[t.r.]

Critically endangered animals in Africa include addax, symitar horned oryx, and others. Yet they thrive in Texas not as zoo animals at all. The larger ranches such as Indian Head and others have thousands of acres to hunt. To my view, this is a blessing and conservation at its best. Anyone is allowed to disagree with me.

TR

symitar oryx

[FWiedner]

Those are magnificent!

[Charles]

There have been exotics here in Texas for generations. There are now more Sika deer in Texas, than native Whitetail deer and we have lots of those. These two do not compete for food because of very different diets. The various exotics seem to do very well living with native species.

[alnitak]

Panzercat, if you get a chance to hunt with the gang down in Hondo, you will certainly enjoy it. Here's a write up I did a couple years back when I hunted with 86er and the boys. Hope it gives you a flavor of the ranch:

http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... f=1&t=9382