Winchester/Browning/Miroku Model 92

[Meeteetse]

Just finished a good article in the fall Guns of the Old West magazine about the Winchester 92. Apparently the guns are being made through Browning's Japanese connection and are similar to the Browning BL-92 of a few years ago. I have a BL-92 in .357 and it is a great gun.

Does anyone know anything about the Winchester version? Has anyone had any hands-on experience with one. I know they are fairly new, but I am usually the last to find out about new products. If they are as good as the Browning BL-92, it might be a great gun. There are several versions available and they are a little pricey, but they are good looking. Anyone have any information?

[Malamute]

I havent heard of any newer versions, but Winchester has been having 92's made by Miroku, the same company that made the Browning 92's for a number of years. All the later guns have the rebounding hammer/tang safety setup so far as I knwo, but both are treatable conditions. If thewy are making newer versions withut the rebunding parts, I'm sure they will be popular.

My Winchester 92 limited edition, I'm replacing the standard parts with Browning 92 internals to do away with the rebounding hammer. Will either put a silver initial plate in the tang safty hole, or mount a tang sight, which neatly overs the hole. Not a fan of tang sights in general, but didn't really want to drill and tap the receiver in this case.

[getitdone1]

Malamute,

Well by golly you hung-on to it. I don't know of a prettier gun. As per my recent picture, I have the standard version. Very good photo of yours. Interesting about your Browning B-92 parts replacements. I recall when you got that gun and you sounded at the time like you might not keep it.

Have you shot any hot reloads through it? I stay with mild SAA Colt loads so I don't accidentally blow-up my SAA replica handgun.

Don

[Meeteetse]

I got the impression from the article that Winchester was "once again" in the levergun business after briefly closing their doors. Their new offices are just down the street from Browning in Utah. My Browning BL-92 is a beautiful gun. If the current production of Winchesters are equally good, I may have to place an order. My son wants my Marlin 1894 CB (44 mag), so this may be a good time to consider one of these Winchesters.

[Malamute]

Don, money was pretty tight a few times in the past few years. I did ask around about selling it, nobody had money at the time, and I ended up not having to sell it. I really don't use pistol caliber long guns much, but sure like looking at this one. I've shot some 22 grs 2400/225 gr Speer JHP loads. They're a little warm, but no drama. I may end up using it to shoot a deer in the back yard or something, but otherwise generally use a rifle caliber long gun. It wold be fine for cowboy shoots, but I do that about every 5 years, so no big need there.


Meeteetse, I ordered the parts several years ago, and have slowly been installing them. Just need to get a screw drilled and tapped in the lower tang for the trigger return spring, and install the stud that is the seat/base for the mainspring, and helps hold the trigger return spring in. The rebound can be tuned to give a harder hammer stirke if you don't feel like messing with changing internals. Many guys just use them as is without any trouble.

I beleive its the hammer, trigger, mainspring, two pieces of the mainspring strut, the mainspring seat, and trigger return spring that's required to convert to regular half cock with Browning parts. I just removed and bagged all the tiny factory parts. They can be modified to work without being a rebound setup, but I wanted it simpler and cleaner. I looked at the Browning 92 and compared before ordering parts, and am using it for a guide as to the location of the mainspring seat hole. That part is a small press in stud, it doesn't go in until the trigger return spring is in place, which needs a hole drilled and tapped before it's done. Haven't decided yet what I'm doing about the tang safety hole.

They've made a fairly large variety of model variations of the Miroku Winchester 92's, even some short rfiles and takedowns. I think they've been having Miroku do 92's for about 10-12 years now.

If anyone has a round barrel rifle Miroku 92 in 44 mag, and wants a 45 Colt, I'd swap barrels. 44 mag is a much more useful round to me. I have more guns and brass in the caliber.

[Pete44ru]

Miroku (Japan) made both the older Browning B-92's and the recent Winchester M-92's - but differently, according to contracted specs at the times (different, also).

The B-92's were made before Browning/FN purchased Winchester, so the B-92's had no lawyer safety or rebounding lock parts.

The newer "Winchester" M-92's as well as this year's "new" "Winchester" 94's are now all lawyered-up, with tang safety's and mushy rebounding hammers, etc.

IMHO Miroku's worknamship, fit, and finish are without comparison, in today's world, for mass-produced firearms - and is head & shoulders above the S.A. product, and at least heads above the Italian clones.

.

[Booger Bill]

I once had a old winchester 92 completely restored to .357. Wouldnt that still be the best solution? Granted I already owned the rifle from the 1950s, and had a machinest friend polish it out, bought new wood, had a gunsmith friend put it together, rebush the fireing pin, reblue it after I had sent it off and had it rebored. I doubt I had $200s in the project in the early 70s. Still, wouldnt that be the way to go now? I stupidly sold it. It looked new when done and was a octogon barreled rifle.

[DPris]

Winchester as a separate company doesn't really exist & didn't "close their doors briefly".
Both brands have been located in Morgan, Utah, for several years. There are no "new" Winchester offices there.
Browning markets the Winchester-marked guns from all sources for the parent company, FN in Belgium.

Denis

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

.......................................

Meeteetse, I ordered the parts several years ago, and have slowly been installing them. Just need to get a screw drilled and tapped in the lower tang for the trigger return spring, and install the stud that is the seat/base for the mainspring, and helps hold the trigger return spring in. The rebound can be tuned to give a harder hammer stirke if you don't feel like messing with changing internals. Many guys just use them as is without any trouble.

I beleive its the hammer, trigger, mainspring, two pieces of the mainspring strut, the mainspring seat, and trigger return spring that's required to convert to regular half cock with Browning parts. I just removed and bagged all the tiny factory parts. They can be modified to work without being a rebound setup, but I wanted it simpler and cleaner. I looked at the Browning 92 and compared before ordering parts, and am using it for a guide as to the location of the mainspring seat hole. That part is a small press in stud, it doesn't go in until the trigger return spring is in place, which needs a hole drilled and tapped before it's done. Haven't decided yet what I'm doing about the tang safety hole.

They've made a fairly large variety of model variations of the Miroku Winchester 92's, even some short rfiles and takedowns. I think they've been having Miroku do 92's for about 10-12 years now.

....................

I too think the fit and finish of the current Win 92 if far superior to all the other. But, all the liability parts make the gun less desirable to me.

Malamute,
A much easier conversion is to use the Rossi fire control parts. I've done a few now and for my part it adds about $200 parts and labor.

Also, if you can find this tang sight made by Uberti, it's W&E adjustable and completely covers the safe slot.

[sullkat]

[quote A much easier conversion is to use the Rossi fire control parts. I've done a few now and for my part it adds about $200 parts and labor.

Steve, can you expound on this? What parts are needed and where they can be purchased.
Thank you

[Malamute]

Steve, I don't recall when I bought the parts, it was a couple or so years ago. I think I have less than $100 in parts, I don't think labor is going to be much, just the drill and tap one hole, and drill the hole for the seat stud. I could do it if I had to, but doing it in a mill is more accurate and square. I have a Lyman No 2A that covers nicely, just need the forward hole. Guess that will cost something also. I may end up making a silver initial plate to cover it, I'm not a big fan of tang sights in general.

[Hagler]

Actually, gents & ladies, Olin Chemical Company owns everything Winchester gun-related. Olin "licences" the use of the name "Winchester" to whomever pays the money & agrees to certain contractural obligations.

Olin Chemical bought Winchester, during the Depression-era. FN/Herstal has been selling Olin-licenced "Winchester" firearms for over 20 years, first, as "U.S. Repeating Arms Company". Now, FN/ Herstal is selling them under the "B.A.Co" (Browning Arms Company) name. Browning has been an FN/ Herstal (Belgium-based) company for a long time, though they have had offices in Utah, as well as, other parts of the world. Both "Browning" & "Winchester" (U.S.R.A.C.), under FN/ Herstal, have sold guns that were manufactured by companies that are located in Spain, the United States, and other countries. Browning calls the Miroku factory, in Japan, one of its companies.

...man, my head is spinning, after that!

Shawn

[DPris]

Convoluted story, I'll add a couple steps.
USRAC was originally a group of employee/investors who bought the New Haven plant when Olin decided to get out of the gun business. USRAC subsequently went through at least two other ownership groups before it was bought by FN. Toward the end, USRAC was not a company, it was just the plant that manufactured three products under "Winchester" license from Olin for FN.
Browning has handled marketing, service, and sales of Winchester marked guns for several years.
FN has not been selling Winchesters for 20 years. Current FN ownership began in 1997, when that consortium bought Winchester & Browning from GIAT in France. GIAT bought USRAC in 1992.

Browning now holds the license from Olin to import and market Winchester marked guns for FN.
Browning has had its corporate offices in Utah for a long time now, and the Winchester "division" has also been located in the same Utah town for many years.

Olin does not own "everything Winchester gun-related", merely the rights to the Winchester name.
Olin still retains the Winchester branding rights for its ammunition production.
Questionable on Browning ownership of Miroku, the only reference I've ever found substantiating that was an old article mentioning Browning owned about 7% of Miroku some years back.
Denis

[DPris]

Double-checked to be up to date, answer just came in- FN and/or subsidiaries own no part of Miroku.
Denis

[Hagler]

Denis,

Thanks for adding some finer points to what I stated. I know that the history of Winchester is difficult to follow. The Leverguns page on Winchester even says much the same:

"A short & improper history":

http://www.leverguns.com/leverguns/winc ... istory.htm


While Browning does not own the Miroku Company, it certainly used to make sure to tout Miroku as one of its factories. Browning now points out that Miroku manufactures guns for them:

http://www.browningint.com/miroku/homepage.php

"Having been making Hunting Guns since 1893, Miroku not only benefits from a great gun-making experience, but also from the Japanese tradition of precision work. Miroku is distributed by Browning International, belonging to the Groupe Herstal known throughout the world for the quality and performance of its products. Browning designs, manufactures and commercializes complete ranges of arms and accessories for hunting and sports shooting."

The paragraph, above, could be worded better. It could give someone the impression that Browning/ Groupe Herstal owns Miroku, if quickly skimmed.

As for Olin not owning "everything Winchester gun-related", I will say that I could have used better wording. I think that it is fair to say that without Olin's O.K., no one can legally sell anything that says "Winchester" on it.

Shawn

[DPris]

Gunmakers have often....blurred facts somewhat in their advertising & PR.
Denis

[Meeteetse]

Interesting where this discussion has gone since my original question asked about the quality of the Winchester Miroku products today as they compare to the Browning labeled BL-92 products of times passed. Good information however.

[Malamute]

In nutshell, the quality is outstanding, every bit as good fit and finish wise as my Browning 92, if not better in the limited edition version I have. The newer style safety parts bother some people, but it's not that difficult to modufy or swap parts if you are so inclined. Many simply use them as they come and are happy with them.

(Sorry to get so far off topic)

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

[quote A much easier conversion is to use the Rossi fire control parts. I've done a few now and for my part it adds about $200 parts and labor.

Steve, can you expound on this? What parts are needed and where they can be purchased.
Thank you

You need the hammer, hammer spring and strut, trigger and firing pin. you might try Braztech/Taurus

[Meeteetse]

In nutshell, the quality is outstanding, every bit as good fit and finish wise as my Browning 92, if not better in the limited edition version I have. The newer style safety parts bother some people, but it's not that difficult to modufy or swap parts if you are so inclined. Many simply use them as they come and are happy with them.

(Sorry to get so far off topic)

Don't take me wrong, the information is interesting and I enjoyed reading it. I just love the way you guys have such a wealth of information, and I knew we would get back on topic eventually. . . .
Dave

[trooper joe]

I had both B-92s (the .357 and fancy .44 Mag). Sold them to a friend and last fall, bought one of the new Winchester / Miroku 92 rifles in .44 Mag. I wasn't going to buy any more rebound hammer/lawyer safety Winchesters since I already had a Davidsons 32-20 octogon barrel rifle.

However, when I tried the trigger, I told the dealer I wanted it. He tried to sell me one in a box instead of the display model, but the trigger was not as nice.

The trigger on my gun is a lot better than my original B-92s. They always seemed sort of stiff an were probably 7-8 pounds or more.

This Winchester M92 rifle is really beautiful and very accurate.

Just some thought,

[Old Savage]

An 8 pound trigger lets you be sure of what you are shooitng at.

[Lastmohecken]

So far, I prefer the older Brownings to the Lawyered up Winchesters. I have had misfires with the newer rebounding hammer models, However I have seen a few rifles cleaned up by Turnbill that I could have been very happy with.

I currenty own a B92, a Browning 95 and a Browning 86 and all of those were much slicker operating then the 3 Miroku Winchesters with the rebounding hammers that I tried. I no longer own the Lawyered up Winchesters.

[olyinaz]

Also, if you can find this tang sight made by Uberti, it's W&E adjustable and completely covers the safe slot.

Here's a link: http://www.uberti.com/store/Sights/Leve ... --p11.html

Cheers,
Oly

[OD*]

Beautiful carbine Malamute.

Last week I picked-up one of the new Winchester 92s, the short rifle version they are calling a "trapper." In all honesty, it doesn't have a bad action, I've given thought to doing to it the same as you have, but I'm not sure I'm going to keep it. I originally want the carbine set-up like their 20" or even the large loop model, that I had planned on changing the lever if I did get one, but got inpatient and took the model that the shop could get. I don't plan on firing it, I'll either sell it or trade it back to the shop if they can find me either carbine.


(Winchester stock photo)