ot- Kayaks / questions

[2ndovc]

Ok you guys,

I sold my boats and don't have time for another one right now but I want a
cheap way back on the water. And some excercize, i spend my whole day at a desk or in my truck!

Saw a nice looking 12 footer at the local Gander mountain that I can put on lay away for a month or so until the
next bonus check comes in.

Anyway,
my concern is, though the web site says it's max capacity 350 pounds. I'm @6'2 and pushing 270. Is the 12 '
big enough for me and a gear bag and a little fishing gear or should I move up to a 14-15' ?


I'll be doing more research when I get home and won't be buying anything for a couple weeks ( got something to pay off first ), but there's so much out doors knowlege from you guys that I though I'd start here.

By the way,
I've had everything from canoes to 30' sailboats (and raced on much larger) so being on the water is nothing new to me. Just don't know anythig about those little buggers!


jb

[Grizz]

are you of a mind to build one? there is tons of info and it's easy.

are you interested in sit-on-top types? they're used for fishing in lakes and oceans. they have advantages if they do what you need.

or are you interested in something you can sit in, maybe snooze in?

the kayak you mentioned should be fine for you for day tripping. if you don't plan to go camping for long or touring and don't plan to pack a lot of stuff. it won't be overloaded unless your total load goes over the weight you mentioned.

even overloaded a kayak can be an awesome boat.

Best
Grizz

[adirondakjack]

I fish from a 12 ft sit-in kayak. I only weigh 175 lbs, but my kayak is converted to electric power, the trolling motor, battery, and associated gear weigh about another 70 lbs, add fishing gear, anchor, small cooler with drinks, etc and I'm up to around 270. The BOAT will handle it, and on reasonably flat water I don't sweat getted water over the bow....

I suspect a 12 ft Sit-in style yak with a relatively flat bottom and decent sized cockpit opening would do ya fine. I have seen some rather portly gents in 10 footers, and other than looking like they are wearing em, they do ok on a lake or flat river....

The thing to consider about 14-15 ft yaks is they rapidly lose their "handiness" both in portability and maneuverability in small streams. If yer gonna load a yak on top a vehicle by yerself, much beyond a 12 footer isn't fun.

[ceb]

[url][/http://www.nativewatercraft.com/url]

Pricy, but the 14' will probably be my next boat. Hopefully it will work, I'm short and wide, 'bout 270 currently.

[Rusty]

Pretty good Ceb, that was going to be my suggestion. I've been told by several people lately the Native waters ultimate is the one to look at. The people I've heard put down the Ultimate say it's not really a yak but more of a hybrid canoe.
I'd say no mater what you do paddle one first before you make up your mind. I didn't when I bought Jr. his canoe, and I personally am not totally pleased with the outcome.

[L_Kilkenny]

Personally I'd think twice before getting a sit-in kayak unless you try one extensively before hand. My butt can only handle the one position seating arrangement for an hour or two and then all ideas of comfort are out the window. Also I'm a pretty limber 180 and getting in and out of a good sized "rec" kayak cockpit sucks IMO let alone smaller cockpits. Third negative is lame gear storage.

As for length vs. your size, I have two 9.5 ft. OT Otters (kayaks) that I bought a few years ago for the girls and they handle my 180lbs and fishing gear no problem. A 12 footer ain't gonna be the fastest thing on the water but it will more than likely turn better with you in it. It's gonna depend on what kinda water you're gonna paddle. Open flat water you might go longer, streams and rivers I'd stick with a shorter boat. Hull shapes vary widely too and can make just as much difference as length in capacity and turning.

I'd recommend biding your time and find a used solo canoe with a high-ish seat position. 2nd recommendation would be a used 15-16' tandem canoe (even if it's aluminum, eck) and rework the seating for a solo boat. Give me shout and I can help with some ideas and with your size it may right up your alley. I've been paddling a 15'9" tandem canoe by myself for 7 or 8 years and have thought about getting a smaller, dedicated solo canoe but then I ask myself why. As a matter of fact, many dedicated solo paddlers think a tandem 15' Prospector is the ideal solo boat for tripping and big guys. More that I think about it a reworked tandem canoe may be your best option and are cheap and easy to find. Just make sure to avoid the extra wide "sportsman" oriented boats and you can more than likely make a fair solo boat out of it. 3rd recommendation would be try a sit on top kayak. As you can tell, I'm no fan of any boat with a cockpit.

LK

[243dave]

Your a good size fellow and with gear that would be pushing it. I have a 12 kayak and at 6'1 and 240lbs a lot of gear makes it hard to paddle. I prefer my solo 11' 9" solo canoe made by Old Town. Its rated at a 500lbs max load and is much easier to get in and out of. At 43lbs its easy to load on top of a car and short enough to throw in back of a pick-up. Its perfect for creeks and rivers without the heft and unneeded length of my 17ft tandem canoe. For a cheap boat (under $400) its a bargin. The only thing I didn't like about it is the seat. I remedied it by glueing a foam cushion on it then lowered it 2-3 inches to make it a lot less tippy. I even put in the adjustable kayak foot rest for bracing in fast water. Also this canoe is much easier to use with a long double bladed kayak paddle. I know, I know it sounds like its almost a kayak but it works better for me this way. I still like my 12ft kayak, its faster, blown around less in stong wind and tracks straighter on flat water but it has less capacity and much harder to get in and out of. Really you need to figure out what type of water you will be in mostly, lakes or creeks and rivers. For mostly lakes and big flat water get a kayak and don't get nothing smaller than a 12ft one, longer is better(faster and tracks straighter). For creeks and rivers go with a canoe. If its only you a small solo is awesome, much easier to portage and load on your vehicle. Truthfully my kayak stays in the garage since I got the little canoe but I admit if I'm gonna hit a lake any time soon and don't have any gear to transport the kayak will come back out. Heres a link of my canoe and where I got it. I caught a good sell and gave less than $320 for it, I'm cheap. http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/produ ... 32.4417833
Dave

[2ndovc]

Grizz,

Been dying to build my own. Worked my way through college as a finish carpenter and worked in a boat repair shop for a couple of summers. I know I can do it just Not enough hours in the day as it is.


Dave and LK,
A short canoe is in the running too, just in case Blondie wants to go along.

Trying to make up my mind. From the responses so far the a 12' kayak or short canoe will work
for what I want to do. We have a lot of wide flat rivers around here and I'm only @ 1/2 mile from Lake Erie.
She can be dead calm one minute and 8' breakers in no time flat.
Rule here is watch that Southwest horizon. But now we have these wonderful devices like Blackberrys and iphones that are
great. Can pull up weather maps in seconds. Didn't have that stuff when we were kids.
All we could do was beach it or ride it out if you had a big enough boat.

Going out tomorrow to look some more.

Kid #2 is looking for a new car. Just gonna have to make a couple stops for the "old man" too.

jb

[KCSO]

I currnetly rent out kayaks and have several in stock so I will offer this advise. First decide what yo want to do and where you want to do it. A fishing Kayak could be a SOT or a SIS (sit on top sit in side), do you care if you get wet, do you want to stay dry. Is it primaraly for fishing? recreation, day tripping rivers, calm lakes? A good fishing kayak will be harder to paddle but more stable in both primary and secondary stability. Is straight tracking required or do you want a real manueverable rig. A lot of the 12 foot recreational kayaks are short on tracking and in river current or on a windy day you will make 3 out of 4 strokes just correcting your course. And most of all what do you want to spend? A good cheap recreational kayak could go as low as $300 for your weight range, but $500 will get you a better all round rig.

For fising I use a 144 Trophy sis kayak rated at 350 pounds and it holds my 195 + gear easy. For river tripping I use a 14 foot sis kayak with an adjustable skeg to aid tracking in the wind and the currents. For just piddling around in the swamps and for light duck hunting I use the Trophy 144 and would really like it to be a 10 footer in some spots. A Old Town 10" Otter did just fine for swamping and went everywhere but was short on carry space. If you can go somewhere where you can either rent or try before you buy it will save you bucks and misery in the long run. I bought a 12 foot Ultimate 120 kayak one time and it was a misery to paddle as it wouldn't track at all. I ended up spending more than the cost of the Kayak to add a rudder so we could use it.

[2ndovc]

I knew there'd be some good info around here!

Primary use is just going to be paddling around the wide flat rivers we have around here.
I live near sveral large rivers that feed lake Erie and are cleaner than they have been in my lifetime, the conservation people
have been doing a great job.

Then to PA where our cabin is just a few miles from the Kinzua reservoir that I've always wanted to explore.

Don't mind getting wet but I'd rather not end up in the water chasing all my gear.

Not planning on doing a lot of fishing. I used to drag a hand line behind one of the small sail boats I had.
I'd pick up a decent walleye once in a while when I wasn't hot dogging it.

Been thinking about this a lot. Keep going back and forth between the kayak and canoe.

It will be fun looking!

Thanks Guys!

[Gobblerforge]

Which rivers are you playing in? I lived in Medina and Lorain counties all my life and it sounds like we played in the same ones. I'm down here by Tappan Lake now. I always hated the south shore weather patterns and had to get away from them. Interesting that you mention Kinzua. I have been invited to attend the festival there next month. If your around, look for the Blacksmiths.
Gobbler

[bdhold]

the best buy in a kayak right now is the Pesdcador at Academy.
These are the previous model Wilderness Tarpon now owned by Perception.
The 12' boat is rated for 375 lbs, and they are exceptionally buoyant boats.
http://www.academy.com/webapp/wcs/store ... 23&Ntk=All

[Nazgul]

Go for it. I bought a 12' Perception kayak a year ago for the same thing-sun and exercise. I weigh close to 300 lbs, am physically active at work and elsewhere. The kayak handles the weight well. I prefer the sit inside type, they just feel better. There is a state lake 10 minutes from the house that does not allow motor driven craft so it is quiet. I am not much of a fisherman, sometimes not often though and it works well for that. Nice and quiet.

I can be in the boat 10 min after work, my headphones on, and some good paddling. I spent 200 hours last summer in it.

Enjoy.

Don

[Hobie]

I weigh about 195 and I use an Old Town Pack canoe (sit IN). I personally think you should get as big a boat as you can transport. Gives one options the smaller boats don't give you.

[KCSO]

Hobie, Big as you can get is fine on larger waters but for ducking in the swamps and slews along the missouri a 12 footer is about all you can turn around and manuever in the channels.

If I were going to pick a boat for you I would suggest a 12-14' sis kayak about 34" or more wide and make sure you get foot braces in the rig. You want good initial stability but also good secondary stability so a flatter but rounded hull design might suit. Depending on the money you have to spend there have been several good outfits mentioned. If you are tight on bucks the Old Town 12 footers are a good option they use to call them the Voyager. They have a good big cockpit so they are easy to get in and out of.

[JReed]

Jason if you are interested in building here is what I am planning once I get done unpacking and get the garage squared away. http://www.bateau2.com/free/cheapcanoe.htm

[L_Kilkenny]

Jason if you are interested in building here is what I am planning once I get done unpacking and get the garage squared away. http://www.bateau2.com/free/cheapcanoe.htm

First boat I every built was one of those. Great little projects but there are a few things that you should know:

First off, they are twitchy as hell. Tried mine for fishing and everytime I made a cast it felt like the boat was gonna jump out from underneth me.

2nd, don't use fir plywood!. It's heavy and doesn't last very well. Instead use 1/4" hardwood underlayment. The stuff I've used on other projects was called Luan but I don't see it being carried at Lowes anymore .

Next, Laun is thin and light but it's strength is questionable. First pirogue I built using it was for my wife. She high-centered hard on a big rock and it cracked on the bottom. To solve this go the next step in boat building and get some 6oz. fiberglass cloth an glass the boat inside and out. Installing the cloth is easy and actually makes finishing the boat easier IMO. Adds oodles of stength and durability.

About the only other tips I can add is use very little epoxy putty for the "fillets". Too much and it will want to warp the bottom of the boat as it shrinks and cures.

LK

[salvo]

I like a SOT for fishing and have a 15' Ocean Kayak. I got the longer one for the type of water I usually fish in, even the river is big here! I like the speed a longer Kayak affords, I can cover much more water that way and can carry a lot of gear.
Took it out to Lake Mead a few weeks ago and was rewarded with 3 Striper's, 1 Large Mouth and a Catfish.



Here's my Kayak

[mav]

If you get a kayak and your wife tries it, I wouldn't be surprised if you end up getting a second one.

There seems to be a trend with women of a "certain age" getting into kayaking. My wife has a number of friends who paddle kayaks. Funny thing, most of them own two.

My wife wanted a pair of kayaks for our 30th wedding anniversary. I wasn't real keen on the idea of a kayak. I preferred a canoe. Like L_Kilkenny I like the ability to change positions. Long story short, we ended up with two kayaks, http://www.emotionkayaks.com/HTML/Kayaks/glide10.html and one canoe, the Old Town 119 like 243dave got.

I've paddled both, the kayak isn't bad, but I still prefer the canoe. Too many images in my head of hunters and trappers in the north woods.

[Hobie]

I think that if I got another boat I'd get a 15' Kevlar Adirondack Guide Boat.

[adirondakjack]

Hobie, in my next life, I want an Adirondack boat like old Nessmunk himself plied the lakes with. He was a little man about 5'3" IIRC, and tore up with TB, so he couldn't portage a standard "man's" canoe. He had a boat made that weighed something like 18 lbs, and paddled it on some lakes that can give much larger boats pause when the winds are up. A friend in VT makes cedar strip kayaks and canoes, but won't SELL one. He's GIVEN em away, but won't do his "art" for pay.....

But in this life, as my 17 yr old says, "This is how we roll".




12 FT Sit-in towing a 9.5' sit-in. Minn Kota endura 30 motor, Humminbird T-max 170 fish finder.....

[Hobie]

NESSMUK! Mr. Sears is a hero of mine. All ate up with TB and he still got out and did stuff. We could do another topic on the man. Canoe, knife, hatchet, rifle, fly fishing, Long Lake, etc... Man, there's some stuff to talk about. He's about on par with Dick Proenneke or Heimo and Edna Korth.

[adirondakjack]

NESSMUK! Mr. Sears is a hero of mine. All ate up with TB and he still got out and did stuff. We could do another topic on the man. Canoe, knife, hatchet, rifle, fly fishing, Long Lake, etc... Man, there's some stuff to talk about. He's about on par with Dick Proenneke or Heimo and Edna Korth.

I've paddled, fished and hunted many of the same places he did. Sears was almost singlehandedly responsible for creation of tourism in as it exists today in the Adirondacks, an area that had been logged so heavily, and was unfit to farm, that it was nearly a wasteland when he started, yet a generation of visitors, including such famed deer hunters as Edison, Ford, and TR himself, who created the conservation movement, which in turn caused the creation of the largest forest preserve in the country, "saved" it. Adirondack Park (right out my back door, almost literally) could swallow the five largest National Parks combined. It's the ONLY reason I endure the winters here, because you can't beat the summers....



Though not 100%, can you see the influence in these two items, (the hatchet, which I still use, actually dates to the Nessmuk era, hand forged) that are within reach in my shop

[JB]

Unless you need a short boat for small creeks, a longer (14' to 15') boat will track (follow a straight line) easier. I prefer the 14 to 15 foot sit-on-top boats for fishing rivers.

[kimwcook]

Scott, looks like you're carrying everything including the kitchen sink.

[Alphawolf45]

I have 5 kayaks..2 for whitewater and 3 for touring , I paddle lakes and rivers..These are all sit inside boats and I have tried fishing from them but it is awkward.. I'd like to try a sit-on-top that is rigged for fishing.....Incidently paddling a whitewater river, guys I was with dared me to try to eskimo roll a fellow paddlers sit-on-top kayak..No strap to hold butt in the seat but straps across both knees and I managed to roll up nicely and then did it again to show off.....I love kayaks...

[adirondakjack]

Alpha, it takes the RIGHt kayak and the right rigging to fish out of em sucessfully. Deck-mounted rod holders, careful thinking through of gear, etc. Ya also don't want a "v" bottomed yak, but one with lots of initial stability. Mine is nearly flat bottomed and 30+ inches wide, and has a roomy cockpit...

Added gear (besides the conversion to trolling motor power) includess an anchor, anchor trolley, three rod holders, a Humminbird fish finder, cockpit lights to thread a hook, etc, a foam "lure pad" on the dash that will hold a hook, fly or lure for later use or while tying it on, a net, as well as compact yet comprehensive tackle and tools to handle fish. Then of course the soft-sided lunch box/cooler strapped on the foredeck...

I spent 8+ hours in mine yesterday, morning and evening combined. It beat heck out of working in the shop in the 95 degree heat or watching Maury "Who yer daddy?" Povich in the AC in the house....