Considering a 357Mag Rossi

[dad]

I don't reload, so only factory ammo for this. I'm looking at a Rossi M92 with either 20 or 24 inch barrel. What loads are you using and kill range for dear size animals? I'm thinking 125yards max range and 158JSP. Why this the ares I'm hunting in are still rifle zones but its growing in population. Looking for a short range rifle that will get the job done. I have considered the same rifle in 44mag. I use a 30-30 now I'm concerened about the range. I have a few shot dear out to 250 yards with this, but not in the areas I hunt now 125 yards is the longest and safest shot.

[Jeff H]

I have not personally shot a deer with the .357, but I have shot small game and varmints with the .357 in handguns with cast bullets and have shot out to 100 yards with a 4" barrelled Security Six very sucessfully. Given the terminal performance I have seen from 4" and 6" barrels, I can't imagine the longer barrel is going to be any less capable.

I recently bought a 16" Rossi in .357, even though I have never been crazy about the .357 like I have about the .44s and .45s. So far, I have been very happy with the choice in the rifle and the cartridge in that rifle. It is nicely made but, depending on how fussy you are, may need a fair bit of slicking up. I also got the scope mount from Rossi to try that out as well.

Nice rifle - the only lever I have besides a Ruger No. 3 and folks on this forum have heard about mine ad nauseum, so I will stop at that and let others sing its praise.

[Old Ironsights]

I don't reload, so only factory ammo for this. I'm looking at a Rossi M92 with either 20 or 24 inch barrel. What loads are you using and kill range for dear size animals? I'm thinking 125yards max range and 158JSP. Why this the ares I'm hunting in are still rifle zones but its growing in population. Looking for a short range rifle that will get the job done. I have considered the same rifle in 44mag. I use a 30-30 now I'm concerened about the range. I have a few shot dear out to 250 yards with this, but not in the areas I hunt now 125 yards is the longest and safest shot.

I use the 20" Rossi.

I suggest Buffalo Bore 180gr cast WFN. It comes out at right around 1800fps and is Avalable at bigger sporting goods stores (Cabelas/Bass Pro maybe Big 5) or online.

I've used it to cleanly take a running whitetail buck at 110yds. I like the load so much that my handloads are a near duplicate.

[Rusty]

If you do some reading on Veral Smith's forum he says his wife's go to rifle for everything is a .357 with 180 grain cast. It's no where close to being the same cartridge from a handgun.

[COSteve]

With the range limit the OP is using, the 357mag in either 20 carbine or 24" rifle will do just fine for deer. As Old Ironsights mentioned, Buffalo Bore's 180grn hardcast would be an excellent choice for deer hunting while simple 158grn commercial is great for game lke yotes and 125grn commercial is fine for rabbits and the like. The Rossis are a ton of fun and at their reasonable prices, if you can't decide which one you like best, you can get both the carbine and the rifle!

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

Did you know there's 357mag ammo available that when used in a rifle exceeds 30-30 ballistics? Check out this 158 from BUFFALO BORE AMMO
This is from their specs.

Heavy 357 Magnum Ammo - 158 gr. J.H.C. (1,475fps/M.E. 763 ft. lbs.) - 20 Round Box

Our 357 mag. ammo adds more power than ever before to the 357 mag. This ammo is safe to shoot in ANY all steel 357 revolver - this includes J frames. This ammo is no harder on your gun than any other normal 357 ammo. (I still don't know if I would use a steady diet of this in a Uberti 73) Please don't phone us and ask if this ammo is safe in your gun. It is, providing your gun is in safe condition for use with any normal 357 ammo.

We don't recommend this ammo to be fired in super light alloy revolvers as bullets may jump crimp under recoil, but the ammo itself wont hurt these super light weight revolvers. These revolvers are simply so light that the recoil is severe enough to cause crimp jump.

The below velocities are offered so that you can see what guns/barrel lengths give what velocities with this new 357 mag. ammo. You'll notice that new S&W revolvers with short barrels are often shooting faster than older S&W revolvers with longer barrels. The new S&W revolvers are very good and are made with equipment that makes them more consistent and faster than the S&W revolvers of yesteryear.

Make special note of the Marlin 1894, 18.5 inch barrel velocities. Item 19C/20, supercedes 30-30 energies!!!

1. 3 inch S&W J frame

a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard cast LFN = 1302 fps
b. Item 19B/20-170gr. JHC (jacketed hollow cavity) = 1299 fps
c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1398 fps
d. Item 19D/20-125gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1476 fps

2. 4 inch S&W L frame Mt. Gun

a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard cast LFN = 1375 fps
b. Item 19B/20-170gr JHC = 1411 fps
c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1485 fps
d. Item 19D/20-125gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1603 fps

3. 5 inch S&W model 27

a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard Cast =1398 fps
b. Item 19B/20-170gr. JHC = 1380 fps
c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1457 fps
d. Item 19D/20-125gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1543 fps

4. 6 inch Ruger GP 100

a. Item 19D/20-125gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1707 fps

5. 18.5 inch Marlin 1894

a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard Cast = 1851 fps
b. Item 19B/20-170gr. JHC = 1860 fps
c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 2153 fps---- Can you believe this?!!!d. Item 19D/20-125gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 2298 fps---- Or this?!!!

Deer and hogs have been taken with 30-30's for ages. The limiting factor here will be the BC of the 357m bullets. Because of their shape they aren't going to be as accurate at longer ranges as the 30-30 bullets even if the 357m exceeds the 30-30 energies.
But, with either one if the hunter/gun/ammo can't consistantly put 5 into a pie pan size target at the distance he plans to shoot then it's just unethical to do so on game.

[O.S.O.K.]

I will just say that you are definately barking up the right tree. A .357 or .44 Mag will be great for your intended application. I have a Rossi 44 Mag and love it.

[Griff]

What Nate said... but, the downrange ballistics won't exceed a .30-30. The 180 grain will be so close that any differences will be meaningless until you get beyond 150 yards.

My 125HPs in a .30-30 are over 2500fps and are DEATH INCARNATE on 'yotes. I have yet to hit one in the vitals and have it get up from where it knocked him down.

[dad]

This is a lot of good advice and links. CoSteve 125hp and rabbits and squirrels! I got to ask how much is left to eat? I did read your posts on your carbine and rifle and found them interesting. You refinish on the stocks, and they look great! Did you have to strip the stocks? So what I'm getting is to stay away from the factory [ Rem,Win, Fed ] and use Core bond for the big game such as deer or Cp2 class?

[olyinaz]

I'll recommend the 20" in .357. I have one and it's just a joy to shoot -- very handy and light as a close woods lever gun should be in my view.

Were I to buy a Rossi 92 in .44 mag again (I traded mine for a .357) I'd probably go with the 24" octagonal model and mount a good tang sight. The extra weight would soak up some recoil (which I hate but your mileage may vary) and the long sight radius would really make it an ace cutter, but clearly it would not be the handy rifle that a 20" .357 round barrel gun is.

For practical hunting I highly recommend the stainless models.

Now I'm a plinker and not a hunter so I've got three lever guns in .357 (a 92, 94 and 73) that me and my boys enjoy quite a lot, but lastly I'll urge you to consider one in .45 Colt. It's an incredibly versatile round with factory offerings that range from mild .357 to heavy .44 mag in power and smack down. Best of all worlds in my view, but obviously if you're going to be shooting rabbits a lot the .357 is probably a better choice with mild .38 specials.

Best,
Oly

[Sarge]

The Brazilian 92's were well made guns. I have no experience with the current offering.

Like you, I have killed deer well past 200 yards with the 30-30. Also like you, I would have concerns about anything approaching long range with the .357 Mag. That much-touted 158gr. Jacketed Hollow Point at 2153 fps has slowed to 1450 at 150 yards, and is hitting 4" low with a 100 yard zero. I've seen several deer hit well at rock-throwing distance, with hot-loaded .357 revolvers producing similar ballistics, and I was not impressed. In fact I can't remember ever seeing one go less than 50 yards, full-tilt. The deer I have shot, and seen shot under 50 yards with the 30-30 (15-20 ?) with common 30-30 ammo were smack-downs.

Your basic 30-30/150 is still doing nearly 1800 fps at 150 yards and drops an inch less; it's still over 1600 at 200 yards. You don't have to hot-rod it to get there and you already know what it will do on game at that distance. If you find yourself with a hunting spot that offers 150 yard+ shooting again, my money says you'll leave the .357 in the rack.

I am far from 'against' the .357 in a revolver or carbine; there's plenty to like and I may get one myself. It offers a broad power band, wide availability, comparatively cheap ammo along with easy reloading. Even from a 2" revolver, 38 wadcutters are a fantastic small game/pest load. And yes, the .357 will kill deer if you use a good bullet (I'd use the 180 XTP loaded hot) and place it precisely. What it will not do is run with a bottleneck rifle round. It is still probably enough, given your stated parameters.

[COSteve]

Sarge's post is right on and that's why I qualified my recommendations with the shorter range limitation the OP stated. Also, shooting small game with a light weight 357mag assumes that you're not planning on eating them or you're good enough for a head shot.

[Jeff H]

.....That much-touted 158gr. Jacketed Hollow Point at 2153 fps has slowed to 1450 at 150 yards,.........Your basic 30-30/150 is still doing nearly 1800 fps at 150 yards and drops an inch less; it's still over 1600 at 200 yards.......

Well stated - the whole post. I just lifted a point or two for the quote, but very well put. Both great cartridges as long as they are used within their individual capabilities. Nice job in making an objective comparison withot berating one and over-blowing the other. Not that easy to do in just a few words.

I see the .357 (in a rifle) compared to the 30-30 frequently, but without the "buts."
Most of us probably understand the "buts," but from time to time, someone picks up on the sensational part about a teeny handgun round being as powerful as the venerable 30-30. Truth be told NIETHER is all that powerful by marketing standards and velocity fever standards, but EITHER is plenty powerful depending on the context of your hunting. NIETHER is "better" than the other unless you start sorting out exactly how it's going to be used.

I love the 30-30 because it was my first "high-power," center-fire as a kid and I found out how useful it was because I didn't know there were "better" cartridges out there.

Later, when I was old enough to buy my own first handgun, I didn't love the .357 - looking down my nose at it for several decades because I knew there were "better" cartridges out there. Maybe I was smarter as a kid in terms of common sense, practical ballistics.

That said, and this has been said before - the .357 is a different animal in a rifle or carbine.

[Dirty Bob]

A big plus of the .357 is that you can practice much more cheaply than with just about any cartridge that's suitable for short range deer.

I strongly encourage learning to reload. You can get into it cheaper than you think, with a Lee Reloader press, a powder scale, an inexpensive priming tool, some dippers (I make my own) a set of dies, and a reloading manual.

I made a simple stand that holds two of the Lee presses, so I can work faster. In the pic, I was loading light round ball loads with primed cases that I brought to the range. The left one holds a .45 Colt seating die, and the right a .45 ACP taper crimp die.

Reloading gives you many more choices of loads, and it can reduce costs dramatically, depending on caliber.

I don't have a .357 levergun -- mine's a .45 Colt. I do have some experience with the .357 Mag. Handi-Rifle (single shot) however, and like it a lot. I'm currently modifying one as a very compact .357 carbine...mostly because I can.

In the levergun, I can afford to shoot it primarily because I reload. Factory .45 Colt is expensive, and options are limited. With my cast bullet loads, I can do anything from close-range squirrel loads to full-power dear or hog loads, all without going over pressure levels that are OK in any .45 Colt firearm.

I think you'll like the .357 Rossi very much, if you can find one. They're scarce around here.

I bought the .45 Colt after failing to find a .357, but in retrospect, I'm not sorry at all. It's a heckuva lot of fun.

Regards,
Dirty Bob

[Sarge]

In the levergun, I can afford to shoot it primarily because I reload. Factory .45 Colt is expensive, and options are limited. With my cast bullet loads, I can do anything from close-range squirrel loads to full-power dear or hog loads, all without going over pressure levels that are OK in any .45 Colt firearm.

I think you'll like the .357 Rossi very much, if you can find one. They're scarce around here.

I bought the .45 Colt after failing to find a .357, but in retrospect, I'm not sorry at all. It's a heckuva lot of fun.

Regards,
Dirty Bob

Amen, brother.



plus...



= good times.

[Poohgyrr]

Great Levers. I wish I had bought one years earlier. Factory ammo is cheaper, and (in our opinion) there is no recoil at all with the 125 through 158 gr loads - and only minor recoil with the heavy 180 gr loads. Much less than regular rifle rounds and 12 ga shotguns.

[Old Ironsights]

.....That much-touted 158gr. Jacketed Hollow Point at 2153 fps has slowed to 1450 at 150 yards,.........Your basic 30-30/150 is still doing nearly 1800 fps at 150 yards and drops an inch less; it's still over 1600 at 200 yards.......

Well stated - the whole post. I just lifted a point or two for the quote, but very well put. Both great cartridges as long as they are used within their individual capabilities. Nice job in making an objective comparison withot berating one and over-blowing the other. Not that easy to do in just a few words.

I see the .357 (in a rifle) compared to the 30-30 frequently, but without the "buts."
Most of us probably understand the "buts," but from time to time, someone picks up on the sensational part about a teeny handgun round being as powerful as the venerable 30-30. Truth be told NIETHER is all that powerful by marketing standards and velocity fever standards, but EITHER is plenty powerful depending on the context of your hunting. NIETHER is "better" than the other unless you start sorting out exactly how it's going to be used.

I love the 30-30 because it was my first "high-power," center-fire as a kid and I found out how useful it was because I didn't know there were "better" cartridges out there.

Later, when I was old enough to buy my own first handgun, I didn't love the .357 - looking down my nose at it for several decades because I knew there were "better" cartridges out there. Maybe I was smarter as a kid in terms of common sense, practical ballistics.

That said, and this has been said before - the .357 is a different animal in a rifle or carbine.

Within its range limits, the .357 is every bit as accurate and as deadly as a .30-30 - and in some states you can't even use the .30-30...

With ONE 15yd exception I have NEVER had an animal got more than the distance inertia carried it.

This is what happens when a running Buck gets wholloped by a Buffalo Bore 180 at 110yds:



I think that pretty much shows what kind of energy is still there.

[Meeteetse]

My son has a Rossi .357 with the 20" barrel and we always have friendly arguments because I shoot a Marlin 1894 in .44 mag. I have always kidded him that his gun was a light weight and was only good for rabbits and squirrels. Last season we both had similar shots on deer. Both animals turned, ran a couple of yards and dropped. There was no apparent difference between the guns. Similar wounds and both bullets exited. I know I made a bigger hole with the .44 and perhaps the gun (not me) can shoot a little further, but I have quit kidding him. In fact I think I am going to buy a .357 also because of the price of ammo.

The Rossi is a great little lever gun.

[Sarge]

Old Ironsights- first of all, great shot. Second, that shoulder shot looks like a duplicate of one I made with a standard WW 30-30 150 Power Point at a shade over twice that distance. He was down in one long stride and the damage was parallel with your pic.

I ain't beatin' up your .357's, guys.

[Old Ironsights]

Old Ironsights- first of all, great shot. Second, that shoulder shot looks like a duplicate of one I made with a standard WW 30-30 150 Power Point at a shade over twice that distance. He was down in one long stride and the damage was parallel with your pic.

I ain't beatin' up your .357's, guys.

I know. And I wouldn't have tried the shot at 200+. The .357 is a 100+/- yd gun.

Where the .357 has the advantage over the .30-30 is in magazine capacity, ability to eat more varieties of standard ammo, and frugality of reloading components... all really good things when the Dems finally get done wrecking the economy.

[Sarge]

Where the .357 has the advantage over the .30-30 is in magazine capacity, ability to eat more varieties of standard ammo, and frugality of reloading components... all really good things when the Dems finally get done wrecking the economy.

Indeed it does. I don't cast and it took me awhile to find a good pest bullet for the 30 WCF. I finally settled on MO Bullet's 135g cast flat point with enough pistol powder to get 900 fps. It works and shoots well but this process would have been much simpler with a .357 carbine- which, as you noted, makes a respectable deer gun over roughly a football field.

[dad]

Went shopping and my dealer only has 44mag. I don't think I want to do that with the cresant metal buut stock. No 357Mag in stock can order but not sure on how long of wait. I think I will just have to wait.

[Jeff H]

Went shopping and my dealer only has 44mag. I don't think I want to do that with the cresant metal buut stock. No 357Mag in stock can order but not sure on how long of wait. I think I will just have to wait.

I had wanted one for a long time before I decided to get one. I passively shopped for a "deal," just sort of keeping an eye out over a short time and then decided to just go for it. I seem to have gotten VERY lucky, because at just that time, Robertsons Trading Post had a mess of them to choose from. I snatched one quickly but fully expected the drought was over.

As popular as the .357is in a lever, it seems strange that there are so few available. Marlins and Rossis are both hard to come by around here and the guy I usually go to laughed and told me they were very hard to find as well - "good luck" he replied.

I am usually a .44/.45 fan myself, but decided specifically on the .357 for a lever because, with handloads, I could make it effectively (and not without minor compromises) span a range from .32 to low-end .44 uses and for the economy of use. Lead and powder go farther as well, as even the heaviest thing I shoot in it is lighter than the lightest I shoot in the .44s. I can cast 56 .357, 125 grain bullets from a pound of alloy, or 44 158 grainers, while I can only cast 33 208 grain .44s and I rarely shoot those in the .44 any more. More likely, it would be a wonderfully shooting Magma 240, yielding 29 bullets from a pound or an RDO 265 at all of 26 per pound and those aren't even "heavy" by many peoples' standards.

I switched over from the big bores to the .357 on another "lean" period in my life 25 years ago but the big bores crept back in and took back over in just a few short years. In the intervening years, I completely neglected the .357, having even gone so far as to trade off all the reloading stuff, which I rarely do. Now, I realize that there's always room for the .35s. If that's the one you want, it's worth holding out for.

EDIT:
On another note, I waited some 40 years for a factory Ruger .44 Special on the .357 frame. For all those years, I and many others complained that "for as popular as the idea is...." and "they could sell so many of them that....." Maybe the .357 lever really isn't as popular as we think. Maybe it is a case similar to the factory .44 Specials, where there was a verbal, dedicated but small group who wanted them so badly for so long that it only seemed to us like it was so popular. I don't know, but I know such things are worth waiting for.

[gak]

These are great guns--have hada dozen or so, various calibers including .357.

I have no stake in but helping a friend selling a clean, no issue Interarms SRC .357. See my "FS Elsewhere" in Classifieds.

[Jeff H]

These are great guns--have hada dozen or so, various calibers including .357.

I have no stake in but helping a friend selling a clean, no issue Interarms SRC .357. See my "FS Elsewhere" in Classifieds.

That's one to jump on. Had I seen this before buying my Rossi a few months ago, I would have.

[dad]

Went to my favorite dealer today and they had none, but some on order. Will call when they come in. Walked by the Ruger hand guns and saw a New Model Blackhawk in 45/8 barrel, blue for a good price put it in lay away. Now to wait for the 20" or 24" octagon barrel in 357.

[2X22]

Walked by the Ruger hand guns and saw a New Model Blackhawk in 45/8 barrel, blue for a good price put it in lay away. Now to wait for the 20" or 24" octagon barrel in 357.

Beautiful!

I sense a plan coming togather......

2x22

[Poohgyrr]

::::: a New Model Blackhawk in 45/8 barrel, blue for a good price put it in lay away. Now to wait for the 20" or 24" octagon barrel in 357.

While you're waiting, here is a 20" octagon with an old S&W. Great combination.

[dad]

Ok! are you going to tease me some more!

[COSteve]

Deleted

[dad]

Very nice guys!

[dad]

Well they called and got one in. It has a 24 in octagon barrel and very good metal and wood finish. Has to go into lay-a-way , but that's OK I guess. They have a 20" one on order and will call when that one gets in and they will let me swap if I want the 20." Life is good.

[Old Savage]

Steve, very nice and extra points for not setting the rifle on the rocks.