Drove me crazy - but I re-timed a Marlin...

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 6:38 pm

A fellow I know leant me his pre-safety Microgroove Marlin94 .44. Said it "jams" intermittantly and the lever won't close.

Yep. Dreaded Marlin Jam.

So after I finally got the fool thing apart (the mag tube was wedged super tight) I looked up the resources page for the fix.

Rounding the snail made it worse (*&#^&@^#&^%#!!!) so I had to build up the carrier.

Note that I really don't have the shop for this kind of work. I melt lead and reload and that's about it.

Fortunately I do have JB Weld and a Dremel Tool, so I cut a bit of hard steel (used a Stanley Utility Knife Blade) to fit the bearing edge and glued it on there, hoping that the knife-edge taper would keep the snail from hiccoughing too much.

Well, it worked - almost. I still had to do a little grinding to get the carrier to not lift too fast, but that only took a couple of tries. Seems to work pretty good now. Doesn't jam in either direction even with as hard & fast as I can cycle it.

Now I can finally get rid of the Marlin. My Rossi was gettin annoyed at the lack of attention.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 8:58 pm

So ....... where's the pics?

Joe

marlinman93 · Post by **marlinman93** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:10 pm

What's a "snail"?

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:27 pm

That`s what some folks call the cam lobe on the lever that accuates the carrier. Don`t know where that came from.I have heard all parts called thingies and doohickies but can`t ever find them in the parts breakdown.

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:32 pm

marlinman93 wrote:What's a "snail"?

He's talking about the little cam thing on the lever that lifts the carrier to block the mag tube. I'v seen it called a "snail cam" in literature somewheres.

OI,

If the guns already haveing trouble rounding that cam will always make it worse. Any metal you remove will only lower the lifter. When theyre new theres more of a fudge factor.
I traded my first 1894C for a Win trapper because it was jamming up on me. If I'da knew then what I know now.
JMHO but I'd probly just get a new lifter.

Ben_Rumson · Post by **Ben_Rumson** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:45 pm

Good on ya for getting there & working thru it..Well done O I

claybob86 · Post by **claybob86** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:45 pm

Good goin'!

Thanks for posting. I, too would like to see pictures of your repair, if convenient.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:56 am

Aw dang. Y'all are gonna make me take the fool thing apart again ain't ya.

Sigh. Ok. Just this once. Pics forthwith.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:59 am

Leverdude wrote:
marlinman93 wrote:What's a "snail"?
He's talking about the little cam thing on the lever that lifts the carrier to block the mag tube. I'v seen it called a "snail cam" in literature somewheres.

Yeah, thats what they called it on the resource page: http://marauder.homestead.com/files/marlin94fix.html

If the guns already haveing trouble rounding that cam will always make it worse. Any metal you remove will only lower the lifter. When theyre new theres more of a fudge factor.
I traded my first 1894C for a Win trapper because it was jamming up on me. If I'da knew then what I know now.
JMHO but I'd probly just get a new lifter.

But that doesn't fix the problem of the carrier/lifter steel being too soft and beating the timing out of it. that's why I went ahead and tried the "fix" rather than just ordering a new one like I originally planned.

Dakota7 · Post by **Dakota7** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:39 am

I tried something similar but couldn't get the epoxy to hold for very long. What works best for me is to heat the carrier and bend it a little.

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:02 pm

You are a mechanical genious Old Irons

In engineering field there is snail cams, you will find them on the rear spindles of dirt bike for one.
Over here we also have thingies, dodars, gigglepins and ebigiebies

Nath

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:10 pm

If you didn't dislike doing the project TOO much, you just might make some side money making replacement carriers; sounds like you figured out that a hardened steel insert would solve the problem better than the original.

I wonder if you could just 'heat treat' a new carrier somehow to harden the steel using some sort of 'case hardening' procedure to just that bearing surface?

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:12 pm

But that doesn't fix the problem of the carrier/lifter steel being too soft and beating the timing out of it. that's why I went ahead and tried the "fix" rather than just ordering a new one like I originally planned.

Nope, sure dont. But it would let me see how much I could remove if it needed it. Its my hope that it dont happen to me anymore.

Nath, over here the technicle term would be doohickie.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:18 pm

AJMD429 wrote:...I wonder if you could just 'heat treat' a new carrier somehow to harden the steel using some sort of 'case hardening' procedure to just that bearing surface?

I actually thought about that. I thought about using Kasenit, but there is that spring that is set in the carrier that I don't think can be removed, so working with heat is a bit dicey.

505stevec · Post by **505stevec** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:36 pm

Good job!! I would have just sold it and taken the loss

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:59 pm

505stevec wrote:Good job!! I would have just sold it and taken the loss

I'm not partial to the M94, but no gun with a 114 year track record deserves to be given up on for a simple modern manufacturing flaw (those carriers had to have been made of harder steel back in the day...) ...

slabsides · Post by **slabsides** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:29 pm

If lifting the carrier higher by a smidgin would solve the problem, instead of shimming the cam, and since you say it's soft, wouldn't just taking a punch and raising a couple or three dimples on the cam surface work to extend the 'lift'! I've tightened sights that way. The raised surface is only a couple of thousandths...and if it's too much, it could be stoned down pretty easily.
(I'm making this suggestion only with reference to pictures in my head, as I haven't broken down my '94c or '95 to check the tolerances.) IOW, I admit this is a half-wit suggestion 'for your consideration'.
I thought of Kasenit, too. That's useful stuff, but you do have to bring the part to red heat, so it's a no-no on the little spring.

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:53 pm

OI,
does it have the rocker or the new fangled button?
if its got the rocker you just drive out the pin & the rocker comes out freeing up the spring. I havent come actross a button one yet to tinker with but I'd think they came apart.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:56 pm

Leverdude wrote:OI,
does it have the rocker or the new fangled button?
if its got the rocker you just drive out the pin & the rocker comes out freeing up the spring. I havent come actross a button one yet to tinker with but I'd think they came apart.

Wouldn't know one from the other. I'm taking pics tonight.

Dakota7 · Post by **Dakota7** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:20 pm

As I mentioned above, I heated the carrier and bent it up. As far as protecting the spring from heat, I use some wonderful stuff call heat stop paste and a wet rag held on the carrier with copper wire wrapped around it. Small tip on the torch heat it up fast and get the job done. Don't take the rag or paste off until it is fairly cool. That heat stop paste is some great stuff, I use it when welding bolt handles on mauser etc. and the heat never goes very far from the weld.

don Tomás · Post by **don Tomás** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 3:05 pm

OI, you're a braver man than me (I?). Congratulations on fixing it. I have a Marlin in .357 that I bought off one of the police dispatchers back in the '70s that also suffers from TDMJ (The Dreaded Marlin Jam), but it doesn't occur very often so I've never done anything about it. The Marlin is going to my #3 son, so I guess it's his problem now...
Tom

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 3:21 pm

Pics:

Ain't perty, but it seems to work. I cycled 50 rounds through it as fast as I could reload the magtube.

One of the advantages to using the knife blade steel is it is thinner than a hacksaw blade (the suggested option)
so you have to remove less metal.

I did nothing to the carrier itself other than clean it to accept the JB Weld. all surface grinding was done on the new steel.

Ben_Rumson · Post by **Ben_Rumson** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 5:05 pm

Great Pics.. Nice job..Clever w/the thinner blade rather than the hacksaw..