When aircraft had style plus just cool aircraft

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:00 am

The YC-19 aircraft were Northrop Alpha 4s supplied for evaluation to the USAAC. The Northrop Alpha was an American single-engine, all-metal, seven-seat, low-wing monoplane fast mail/passenger transport aircraft used in the 1930s.

http://www.planeaday.com/

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:00 am

Cool, pilot didn`t have much for comfort

gak · Post by **gak** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:04 am

Cool plane! I realize that very little of flying is about being able to see much of anything ahead (if/when you see it it's too late, etc) but psychologically this is a bit daunting! Must've been a bit noisy for the passengers?

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:09 am

gak wrote:Cool plane! I realize that very little of flying is about being able to see much of anything ahead (if/when you see it it's too late, etc) but psychologically this is a bit daunting! Must've been a bit noisy for the passengers?

But they had heat.

gamekeeper · Post by **gamekeeper** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:30 am

Difficult to hi-jack..

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:09 am

What amazes me is that the little skinny two bladed prop can get that big thing off the ground.

I don't think I'd like to sit behind the engine like that. Just don't seem like a great idea.

joe

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:00 am

Actually there ain`t no engine in there, the passengers are turning a crank

adirondakjack · Post by **adirondakjack** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:18 am

Imagine yer inside an oil barrel with a fire on top, while folks beat on it with hammers. Beats walking, but not by much.

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:29 pm

Can't imagine how noisy it must have been.

Similar setup but with the pilot in front of the pax cabin instead of behind:

Could have been worse I guess:

Then there's today:

Cheers,
Oly

bdhold · Post by **bdhold** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:40 pm

the first plane is beautiful, but I'm with Oly - an art deco Lockheed fan.

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:04 pm

Back when aircraft had class!!

Way cool!

jb

stretch · Post by **stretch** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:53 pm

And TSA didn't have it's hands up your skirt, either......

(Sorry, guys - but that nonsense REALLY ticks me off!!!!)

Anyway, I love the stuff from the 20s and 30s - it's known
as the Golden Age of Aviation for a reason.

-Stretch

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:45 am

I'm kind of partial to this one:

another classic beauty

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:49 am

Here's the mail plane:

rode around in a lot of these taxis

claybob86 · Post by **claybob86** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 1:05 am

stretch wrote: Anyway, I love the stuff from the 20s and 30s - it's known
as the Golden Age of Aviation for a reason.

-Stretch

That was the Golden Age of Design! Not just aviation. Trains, planes, automobiles, trucks, buses, buildings all had serious class in that era.

Maybe I like it so much because a lot of the world still looked like that when I was a little kid.

Ji in Hawaii · Post by **Ji in Hawaii** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 1:50 am

As much as I love the lines of both the V-12 engined P-38, and P-51 I personally find the lines of radial engined WWII era aircraft as the most beautiful, with special attention to some of the Japanese fighter aircraft.

A3M2 Mitsubishi Zero "Zeke"

Nakajima Ki-84 Hayate "Frank"

Kawanishi N1K-2J Shiden Kai "George"

Nakajima ki-43 Hayabusa "Oscar"

Nakajima Ki-44 Shoki "Tojo"

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 7:13 am

Grizz wrote:I'm kind of partial to this one:

another classic beauty

+1....nothing like a Staggerwing Beech. There was one in my Dad's hanger at Falcon Field in Mesa, AZ. Loved being around that old plane and watching her fly.

Ji in Hawaii · Post by **Ji in Hawaii** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:04 pm

My two favorite American WWII radial engined fighters:

Republic P-47 Thunderbolt

Grumman F6F Hellcat

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:22 pm

Gotta love The Jug Ji! One of my favorites of WWII as well.

OJ · Post by OJ » Fri Apr 15, 2011 1:03 pm

Great pictures of great planes -

However - here's where it really "got off the ground" - started -

Ji in Hawaii · Post by **Ji in Hawaii** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 1:50 pm

I've always liked the Antonov An2 especially with floats, would be great to own if I lived in Alaska.

Booger Bill · Post by **Booger Bill** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 2:51 pm

My old 7gcbc citaberia. Rebuilt to the gold and white, and right now is being rebuilt again. Long term project. I have owned it since 1977. It`s a 1972 and was bought to tow gliders.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 3:31 pm

Ji

I'll see your AN-2 and raise you with a DC-3:

I knew a pilot who had flown one of these "amphibs" before his civilian career started.

I love the looks of the Gooney Bird and still remember being strapped into the back of one flying under the AZ thunder cells and wondering that anything could shake that much... in hindsight I think the props must'of eaten a lot of rocks, or the spark timing was way off, or a couple of jugs weren't participating.....

Grizz

gak · Post by **gak** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 6:46 pm

Grizz wrote:Ji

I'll see your AN-2 and raise you with a DC-3:

I knew a pilot who had flown one of these "amphibs" before his civilian career started.

I love the looks of the Gooney Bird and still remember being strapped into the back of one flying under the AZ thunder cells and wondering that anything could shake that much... in hindsight I think the props must'of eaten a lot of rocks, or the spark timing was way off, or a couple of jugs weren't participating.....

Grizz

My father was a B-17/25/29/A20 instructor pilot. But I'd never realized how much time he also logged in the Goonie Bird/C-47 (DC-3) until I delved deeper into his flight logs recently. A ton of hours. Also some C-97s, B-36s (the rear-facing 6 prop--and fwd facing 2 jet--job), B-50s (29's successor), and 47s and a few 58 flights. Although his career focused on the large stuff, also a smattering of P-82/F-82 (Twin Mustang)--he said a blast--and early F-80s and F-84s.
I forgot B-24s. Didn't like flying them as much (still had an affection for), but had almost as many hours as his frontrunner - B-17, his main heartthrob. A-20 was his visceral favorite strictly in terms of a fun, "natural flyer."

Ben_Rumson · Post by **Ben_Rumson** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 9:41 pm

I agree with JI.... The A6M2 is the sweetest looking radial plane...The way that cowling blends to the fuse... Man, to see one of those fly patterns in a pattern ship contest would be something to behold...Not the hyper snappy stuff we see now days.. But graceful plane and agraceful pace... .... .....

Hey Miller..

Fighter pilots liked the cover them big old radials in front of them provided...

Now guys for noise.. How loud do you suppose it was for the pilots & co pilots in B-17s when the top turret cut loose with them twin .50s firing forward just a just a foot or so above and slightly behind their heads?

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:46 pm

I can't believe no one has posted an image of the most beautiful fighter ever to take wing:

Or the most beautiful civil aircraft ever to grace a hanger:

Not that I have an opinion on the matter!

Cheers,
Oly

KWK · Post by **KWK** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:50 pm

Zeros ain't bad looking, but The radial engine WW-II fighter was for me the FW-190. The co-founder of MicroSoft has had an original restored to fly, the only one in the world, complete with its original BMW engine. I simply must hear that plane fly one day.

txpete · Post by **txpete** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 4:15 am

started flying in one of these with my dad when I was 5-6 years old off a old sod strip.

I took a left turn at 18

and started working on these and I was hooked for life.

Ji in Hawaii · Post by **Ji in Hawaii** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 4:27 am

In my opinion the Cobra looks much cleaner than the Apache.

The Douglas Skyraider sure was an awesome workhorse of a plane in Vietnam, last of the radial combat planes used in the US arsenal I believe.

txpete · Post by **txpete** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 4:36 am

as far as fix wing acft go these were special.the zoomies would fly the snot out of them.

gak · Post by **gak** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 9:08 am

Hey Oly, love the Corsair..watch the "Blacksheep" on one of the oldie channels regularly to see them fly over the Cali-I mean-Pacific islands!
Your civil aircraft didn't post.

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 9:50 am

Danang, Vietnam 1972-3

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:13 am

A-20 was his visceral favorite strictly in terms of a fun, "natural flyer."

gak: A-20 ???

My Dad was a test pilot for Douglas and flew A-20s off the line in Dagget. Lots of trips to the coast to clear the machine guns, with some antics only funny to pilots thrown in...

I was reading his logs and saw that he did a lot of ferry work and vip trips in DC-3s.

Where did your Dad work? It's possible they crossed flight paths somewhere.

Have you been in AZ long enough to remember Bonanza Airlines? Dad was Chief pilot there for a lot of years, were you around then?

Grizz

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 11:00 am

In my opinion, even though I've been in love with the B-17 since I was a kid, THE most graceful, stylish aircraft ever to fly was Lockheed's Super Constellation.

Lockheed Super Constelation.jpg

Joe

OJ · Post by OJ » Sat Apr 16, 2011 11:43 am

I have never found the answer to this question -

Service ceiling (defined as the level above sea level where the plane can still climb 100 feet per minute at full allowable weight) is 18,000 ft - or so.

Question is - how was this determined? Taking off at max weight - meaning full tanks - and with the speed it flies - I never figured out how to get to that altitude and still be at max weight -and I start at over +6,000 ft MSL.

gak · Post by **gak** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 11:49 am

Grizz wrote:
A-20 was his visceral favorite strictly in terms of a fun, "natural flyer."
gak: A-20 ???

My Dad was a test pilot for Douglas and flew A-20s off the line in Dagget. Lots of trips to the coast to clear the machine guns, with some antics only funny to pilots thrown in...

I was reading his logs and saw that he did a lot of ferry work and vip trips in DC-3s.

Where did your Dad work? It's possible they crossed flight paths somewhere.

Have you been in AZ long enough to remember Bonanza Airlines? Dad was Chief pilot there for a lot of years, were you around then?

Grizz

Grizz, incredible to hear on the A-20s - my dad loved them! I dont't recall as to where he flew them. My brother has the flight log; when I can I'll ask. Otherwise, before I came along in '54 I believe "all over." Oklahoma, Florida, California. Was stationed at Parks near Walnut Creek, CA, when I was born. During the war flew all weather approaches out of Arcata, CA. Some of that may have been A-20s. B-29s in and flying home from Guam near the end of the war. Post war was Davis Monthan (mostly B-50s I think) in Tucson, then England - with some assignments in Wiesbaden, Germany while there. Mid 50s Montgomery, Al., then late 50s-early 60s was Pentagon for five years on only partial flying status. Flew occasional DC-3s and a few others out of Bolling, "just because" and to keep the status up. By the time we went to Japan (61-64)--a F-100/F-105 (and 102) base, he was mostly off flying but "stole" a T-33 (jet trainer) a few times to go to meetings in Tokyo, and they let him at the controls of a C-130 a few times...also to keep up his chops. Stateside again up to his 66 retirement, we were at Kelly/Lackland (San Antonio), again little flying, I think a few C-97 trips they let him have the wheel for. But I remember being toured in a B-36--left-over from earlier days. Huge! Second hand, someone who was a flight engineer said he was with him when he ferried Le May from Florida to Omaha I think - in a C-97.

We've been in Az since 66. Yes I remember Bonanza! Wasn't it the pre-cursor to Air West? We had a good friend here in the Phoenix area who was a repair-technician with both.

I'm sure this has fascinated everyone else

gak · Post by **gak** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 11:58 am

J Miller wrote:In my opinion, even though I've been in love with the B-17 since I was a kid, THE most graceful, stylish aircraft ever to fly was Lockheed's Super Constellation.
Lockheed Super Constelation.jpg
Joe

Joe, you beat me to it! I agree - love that plane! That shot (particular model and trim--ultimately its most iconic form) was right around my birth year - '54.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 12:36 pm

We've been in Az since 66. Yes I remember Bonanza! Wasn't it the pre-cursor to Air West? We had a good friend here in the Phoenix area who was a repair-technician with both.

Yes. Dad started flying for Bonanza when it was the Bamboo Bomber out of Las Vegas.. then DC-3s.. We moved to Phoenix when they opened the domicile there and Dad was Chief pilot getting that off the ground, so to speak. Eventually he went back to flying the line. he was the lead on switching the airline to F-27s, including training every pilot on the airline to fly them.

Hughs bought Bonanza and Frontier and one other and formed Air West.
Dad flew the DC-9 and LOVED THAT AIRPLANE. He soloed a Curtis Jenny and retired flying the 9s... and logged more than 24,000 flight hours.

Those log books are a national treasure in themselves, there aren't many people who can account for such a significant segment of their time in such terse but accurate detail.

Thanks for the feedback and interest. It's good memories now.

Best
Grizz

Mike D. · Post by **Mike D.** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 1:36 pm

Aside from the military, the only local airlines to hang onto Gooney Birds was the old Trans-Texas. Their battered veterans were rough flying, but impervious to the often rough air that they flew through. I had one roller coaster ride up to Louisville that caused the young lady next to me to use her barf bag and mine.

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 1:43 pm

[quote="txpete"]as far as fix wing acft go these were special.the zoomies would fly the snot out of them.

[/q

I had one of my "funnest" rides ever in one of these. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, accept a ride from a pilot wearing a tam o shanter. A sure sign he is both crazy and fearless. Not to mention a fun loving sort.

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 1:45 pm

gak wrote:Hey Oly, love the Corsair..watch the "Blacksheep" on one of the oldie channels regularly to see them fly over the Cali-I mean-Pacific islands!
Your civil aircraft didn't post.

Hey, the coastal islands off SoCal "ARE" Pacific islands. Unless they moved them in the last day or so. Nope, just looked, Catalina is still there.

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 1:48 pm

Grizz wrote:
We've been in Az since 66. Yes I remember Bonanza! Wasn't it the pre-cursor to Air West? We had a good friend here in the Phoenix area who was a repair-technician with both.
Yes. Dad started flying for Bonanza when it was the Bamboo Bomber out of Las Vegas.. then DC-3s.. We moved to Phoenix when they opened the domicile there and Dad was Chief pilot getting that off the ground, so to speak. Eventually he went back to flying the line. he was the lead on switching the airline to F-27s, including training every pilot on the airline to fly them.

Hughs bought Bonanza and Frontier and one other and formed Air West.
Dad flew the DC-9 and LOVED THAT AIRPLANE. He soloed a Curtis Jenny and retired flying the 9s... and logged more than 24,000 flight hours.

Those log books are a national treasure in themselves, there aren't many people who can account for such a significant segment of their time in such terse but accurate detail.

Thanks for the feedback and interest. It's good memories now.

Best
Grizz

My Dad had Venture Aviation out at Chandler airport in the 70's........flying Grand Canyon tours, air ambulance/aircharter. We got the occassional BT-13, Stearman, T-6, P-51 Mustang out there, and the Varga plant was right next to us. They were rebuilding one of the prettiest of all airplanes out there from WWII....a Sea Fire with the clipped wings and counter rotating props.

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 3:15 pm

gak wrote:Hey Oly, love the Corsair..watch the "Blacksheep" on one of the oldie channels regularly to see them fly over the Cali-I mean-Pacific islands!
Your civil aircraft didn't post.

Yep! I used to watch that show just for the aerials also. I tried a different photo of the Spartan, hopefully it posted.

My favorite Japanese fighter, the Kawasaki Ki-61:

What a great looking airplane!

Oly

gak · Post by **gak** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 4:03 pm

I've posted this in another Hobie thread - so forgive the repetition

- but we were stationed at a former Korean War base in Japan, which had (then) P-51s, F-82s (Twin Mustangs), some F-86s and one of the other F-8_ jets. When we were there, it had graduated to F-100s and those gave way to the F-105s while we were there (which then went on to Vietnam (Thailand) as we left and effectively decommisioned the base). F-102s were our interceptors, scrambled regularly to escort Russian MiGs away from snooping on/testing our base, and with the requisite siren us kids scrambling from our school playground to cover.

Back to the Korean War and the point to this story...on a Sunday drive we drove up to Ashiya (which I formerly miscalled Asahi - a beer!), another famous Korean War base. With our Air Force sticker and father's salute to the Japanese MP, we drive through the gate right onto the tarmac (with our brand new 62 Corvair Monza!) - and no one else around - parked in front of an entire squadron of F-86s lined up angled/nose to us...all with the Japanese "meatball" mid fuselage (just like the Zeros/Zekes, etc). A bizarre sight. My how times had changed. Post K-War, we'd given these and the base over to the Japan Air Defense Command. Somewhere in our family archives we've got some footage of the F-86s as well as end of runway film of the F-105s departing--that need to be put to DVD!

Booger Bill · Post by **Booger Bill** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 5:28 pm

Most of the scenes in black sheep were filmed near filmore california. That is towards ventura from magic mountain west on highway 126 in california. Santa paula is nearby. They had a strip just off the highway with a movie set. I used to fly through there myself.
Bill barns, poncho barns son signed me off on my private pilot certificate. He had/has a FBO business in lancaster. He rebuilt a coursair and got killed testing it. His wife was still running the business when I left that area.

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 7:26 pm

Booger Bill wrote:Most of the scenes in black sheep were filmed near filmore california. That is towards ventura from magic mountain west on highway 126 in california. Santa paula is nearby. They had a strip just off the highway with a movie set. I used to fly through there myself.

Bill barns, poncho barns son signed me off on my private pilot certificate. He had/has a FBO business in lancaster. He rebuilt a coursair and got killed testing it. His wife was still running the business when I left that area.

That's sad. Lots of good men lost in those things testing them (or themselves...).

My painful Corsair story: My Chief Pilot had a nice Corsair. His pride and joy. He came home from a trip a bit early one day and found his wife in bed with "the help".

He lost the Corsair in the divorce settlement. Still gets my dander up just thinkin' about it.

Cheers,
Oly

Booger Bill · Post by **Booger Bill** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 7:45 pm

I got some of that story wrong. I just googled the story, and it says the plane was a P-51. Bill also owned a corsair when I knew him. Here are a couple old leads to the story. I had a friend pilot. "Luther Struve" who was flying that day and saw him fly it into the ground. Sure thought it was a corsair. Still------
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviati ... 754-2.html

http://connecticutcorsair.com/index.php ... r_airplane

http://www.warbirdregistry.org/corsairr ... 97330.html

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 12:33 am

@ C. Cash

re the Varga plant

Dad had a Varga Katrina for a while. I got to back seat fly it in a major windstorm one time. Stick airplane, very easy to feel the control surface inputs. We flew it to Bellingham and Dad did his usual grease it on landing with a heavy duty crosswind. He always said that for him the hardest part of flying was knowing when he was back on the ground.

Thanks for boosting the memories

Grizz

Ji in Hawaii · Post by **Ji in Hawaii** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 12:44 am

Grizz wrote:Ji

I'll see your AN-2 and raise you with a DC-3:

Grizz

What an awesome sight a DC-3 seaplane! I LOVE DC-3/C-47s. We had 3 airlines flying them:

Air Molokai (most recently)

Aloha Airlines

Hawaiian Airlines

Booger Bill · Post by **Booger Bill** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 1:17 am

Griff do you mean varga kachina? The old moressey shin? Looked like a miniture T-6? I really wanted one of them! A dealer had them in santa paula years ago. How lucky you were! I doubt if I could fit in one though. Didnt they have a 150 hp lycombing 0320?
They were tri cycle gear. I think they planned on makeing a taildragger. But I belive they went out of business back then?