WAY OT: Have you ever felt or been compelled to....

[SJPrice]

Have you ever felt or been compelled to support others who
1. did nothing to try to support themselves?
2. did not acknowledge the fact that you were and in fact acted as if it was your responsibility to do it?
3. when they did earn money on their own, they did not contribute to the "general fund" or offer to pay you back, but rather spent it on themselves for some item of "luxury" or personal vacation?

And yes, I understand we all have this to the extent our tax dollars go to fund welfare. I am talking about a more direct personal situation?

[kimwcook]

Yes, to some of your points, but not all and definitely not for long.

[Ray Newman]

To all three questions, the answer is “No”.

If I did, I would be throwing good money after bad, as in your third scenario. And I worked too hard and put up with too much fecal matter for my wages.

A relative once asked me about a loan. When I mentioned his house as collateral, he said that he was only kidding; I said that I was not. Earlier, he borrowed from his mother even though at the time there was some question if she would need to live in an assisted care facility. Of course, he never paid her back.

As an aside, I was always told that it is best not to lend money to relatives or friends. I know a few who did not follow this advice. Seems they never saw their money again or the requests for more money became more often and for larger amounts.

[TedH]

I can't feel compelled to help someone that makes no effort to help themselves.

[Birdman]

My wife's family knows I'm the richest guy in the county. Just ask them. Of course they are not the most productive people on the planet. I did get the good one of the bunch. We did help a few of them years ago with the predictable outcome. No more and no guilt.

[gak]

Yes, regrettably, to some of. It appeared they "could not" help themselves to the extent desirable and I was in a position to "help" so I stepped in. I guess I'd been in dire straits before and was helped through (by others) and thought this would be similarly appreciated (and of course would help to put back on their feet). Appreciated maybe, in a superficial sense, but no real signs of long term effort improvement in the "helping themselves" condition (or self-acknowledgment of their responsibility in their condition in the first place--always someone else's or thing's fault).

Re loans, other than very short-term, well defined situations, no more. It's got to be a "gift" --where nothing is expected in return, truly "unconditional"--or not at all. If you do, feel good about it and let it go (including the temptation to the above analysis!). Not suggesting that, just saying IF you--rhetorically speaking--do. No serious, long term "loans." They can be destroyers of relationships, whether family or friends. My .02 or .03.

[Kansas Ed]

I usually help the first time, but only to a reasonable extent. For instance if they are in a real bad jam a $100 or two tops. I figure I get credit for trying. If they take advantage of me then eventually I get the last say at some point in the future.

For instance: I once had a guy I knew tell me he was short the week, and ask for a $20. Others told me in private not to do it, but I said I'd take the chance. The promise was that he'd pay me on Friday next. Two months later he's back with his hand out. I told him: "Everyone told me not to lend you the first $20, but I told them everyone gets a chance with me. I never saw that $20 again, so no I won't give you anymore." The next Friday he brought me the first $20 and apologized.

I've helped people for days at a time, who for some reason are just too involved in something else when I ask for their time. Nope...never again, and if they ask again I tell them why. IMO too many people just accept being took for a ride, and are afraid of conflict to speak up and say what needs to be said when it's appropriate later.

Ed

[Ray Newman]

"IMO too many people just accept being took for a ride, and are afraid of conflict to speak up and say what needs to be said when it's appropriate later."
--Kansas Ed

BINGO!

And something else that I've noticed is that people will do what ever they are allowed to get away with.

[Ysabel Kid]

I can't feel compelled to help someone that makes no effort to help themselves.

+1

[El Chivo]

Thank goodness no one in our family is like that. If there's a loan, it gets paid back before anything else. Although I did have a sister who went through this as a phase. It was maddening, and she did the "switcheroo" that politicians do with our tax revenues. She spent the rent money on rock concerts, then borrowed money for rent - because I wouldn't have lent her money for rock concerts, but I couldn't let her get kicked out into the street.

I have recently had the experience of lending a co-worker $20.00 to tide him over until payday. I figured the same thing, everybody runs short now and then and he deserves a chance. And if it goes bad, the cost is only $20.00 to never be bothered again.

The good thing is he has always paid me back, and later brought me some sort of treat like a chocolate bar. I figured this same $20.00 has brought me about $40.00 worth of chocolate bars and cookies by now. Also, each time he offers to give me as much as $5.00 in cash interest which I wave off. He's a heck of a lot better investment than the stock market has been in the last 10 years.

[Tycer]

I have learned that a person should ask me for my help, I must believe them to make good use of my help and pay it forward and I must be able to do it without hurting myself or family.

Without that, I'm not inclined to help anymore. I've broken all three of those rules in the past and regretted it.

[Bogie35]

If I don't have the means and care enough about somebody to just "give" them the money, then I probably shouldn't "loan" it to them either. There's no sense in inviting potential resentments. Just say "no".

bogie

[FWiedner]

I've helped people in the past.

Can't put my finger on the reason, but it seems like folks I help always treat me like they resent me for some reason afterward.

Never asked for a thing in return from anybody.

Maybe that's what they wanted, or maybe that's what p'd 'em off at me, I dunno.

[Gobblerforge]

Lots of times. Some may call me foolish, and they may be right, but I get the best feeling when I help others. Even when I know in my heart I will not be repaid I sometimes feel I've done the right thing. Now mind you I do most of my "giving" through personal help and man power these days and there are tools I won't lend out anymore but I'm always happy to give.
Scouts taught us to do a good turn every day. Sometimes payment cheapens that mantality. I have found that everyone leans more one way or the other, giver or taker. It is up to us, the givers, to be the judge of when and where to give.
Gobbler

[mikld]

Everybody get a chance with me, once...

I learned a while ago that I am blessed when I give/help others. The blessing is with me; no matter what the receiver does with the gift, I am blessed.

[Old Ranger]

[quote="SJPrice"]Have you ever felt or been compelled to support others who
1. did nothing to try to support themselves?
2. did not acknowledge the fact that you were and in fact acted as if it was your responsibility to do it?
3. when they did earn money on their own, they did not contribute to the "general fund" or offer to pay you back, but rather spent it on themselves for some item of "luxury" or personal vacation?

You've just described my wife

Wade

[Streetstar]

Sadly enough, had a similar set of circumstances with an alcoholic uncle a few years ago. He went through periods of homelessness in between living with my mother , but couldn't keep his habit under control long enough to dig himself out of his hole.

My father helped him move into an apartment and it didnt take long for him to let one of his "buddies" start staying over ---- this resulted in damages to the apartment that bordered on vandalism and bye bye apartment

On another occasion, after a period of living with my mother where he seemed to be doing "better" -- i found a very modest rent house within walking distance of the place he worked--- (couldnt drive due to several DUI's in the past and a short stay in prison because of DUI's) -- hoped he would start acting like a regular citizen, but again, wino buddies started crashing out at the place and it turned into a repeat of the apartment story.

This was a decorated Vietnam veteran who went on to make the Dean's list at Oklahoma State as well as their track team. He used his education to teach school and was a coach , but ultimately, after his 2nd or 3rd DUI, he was fired from the school and his marriage dissolved (i guess in retrospect, if losing your job and your family isnt a big enough wake up call, what is)

He passed away a few years ago while he was living in the back of a non-running van in a questionable part of town --- and i still miss him greatly

[Hobie]

I am doing such a thing as I type this. I am torn between duty and a realization that the result will be less than hoped for. I have stated that this is the last time I will do such and I mean it.

It is an unfortunate truth that there is one in every family. Some hide it well but others do not. It is also true that all of us have a our own level of tolerance for such behavior.

Of course I have helped those in a bad way without expectation of repayment and knowing it was unlikely that I would see them again. I think it natural that we expect the most from those to whom we are closest.

[shooter]

I have been both the recipient of help, and the giver of help, so I've seen both sides of the coin. My grandparents have been more generous with me than I could ever deserve, especially since I have lost my job. I always repay them in one way or another, whether it is work around their house, repaying the money, or whatever the situation calls for.

I have also helped out a friend by letting him live with my wife and I for several months. We had an arrangement as far as rent, and after a while he stopped paying. I figured he was just in some money trouble and would resume payments when he was caught up. He never paid me back in full, and it caused some resentment for a while. I finally let it go because a couple hundred dollars isn't worth our friendship.

The Bible talks about not giving loans and expecting return, but to give it as a gift. If it is paid back then all the better, but don't give expecting it to be.

[Booger Bill]

The last person I helped out is now in prision for life.

[Hillbilly]

I almost have my wife cured of this impulse.

We loaned on her relations a couple of C notes on the basis of "pay us back when you can". So far, not an inkling of repayment is forth coming.

You may say.... "well, if you did not spell things out"...or, "you have not asked for payment"...let's not go there. When a man holds out his hand and you fill it... they should be man enough to satisfy the debt.

One of my grown step kids cussed me when I suggested he get's his mail sent to *his* address and stops giving out my phone as his (he never lived with us).
The mail has been a blessing. A non- ending stream of collections letters, tax bills, and other stuff a dead beat would get comes to my house. His mother was always one to give the benefit or the doubt.. but after watching his mail (and the collections calls we get) I think she is seeing him for what he is.

[L_Kilkenny]

My first reaction to this was no. There is an advantage of being at the bottom of the food chain in regards to income in my family. Luckily we've never been so close to the bottom that I need to ask for help either.

But after some thought there have been many instances where I've done this. Almost all business related to some extent. There was an older lady that might be referred to as a "poor soul". I did repairs (plural) for her, paid for parts and spent time with always a promise of pay even though we knew we would never see it. We've given her rides to town and picked her up when she was broke down. All this ended about a year ago when her mother passed, she inherited a couple hundred acres of good farm ground, sold it and moved away. Not so much as a Good-Bye. If I had it to do over again I'd do it the same.

Don't even get me started on the employees that we've had. More than a few we've kept around longer than needed due to pity or that we kept tellin ourselves "he really is a nice guy, just has some problems". One in particular cost us into the 10's of thousands of dollars in jobs that went sideways due to his slacking and stallin till we wised and moved him on.

LK