Californians: Get Ammo and Speedloaders!

[JohndeFresno]

Last call, Californians. The new law takes effect soon - no ammo allowed in Interstate (Internet) sales.

If you read the law, that includes SPEEDLOADERS. Since it is usually hit and miss to get the right size for your particular handgun, if at all, from a local gun store, you might want to get them now by the Internet.

I just purchased my last eight HKS speedloaders ($9.99 each) from Cabela's - 4 for my .357 Python, 4 for my Taurus 44 Magnum.

The Cabela's site and catalog alert you that orders must be placed by 1/21/2011 at 9PM CST
in order for them to legally process and ship ammo to you.

And gear up for possible shortages as a crowd of new reloading aficionados run for the powder, primers, and other components.

[firefuzz]

I'm just thankful I don't have to live there.

Rob

[buckeyeshooter]

I am always amazed that politicians can get away with this stuff. I would never live there--- heck, won't even visit.

[RIHMFIRE]

Kalifornia ............land of the commmies

[Old Ironsights]

They cannot prohibit the shipment of "gifts" however, so long as those "gifts" comply with USPS/Common Carrier shipping Rules...

[Mike D.]

I have never purchased ammo over the net, but do order bullets and cases. Powder and primers are picked up in Reno.

[Streetstar]

I am always amazed that politicians can get away with this stuff. I would never live there--- heck, won't even visit.

California is a beautiful place to visit. The scenery and topography can be like no place else in the USA. From the beaches and the great climate in San Diego, to the rolling hills of the wine country to the redwood forests of NorCal. Hunting is not the only outdoor activity for many of us, and California offers up great cycling opportunities not found in other places.

If i sound like a big Cali fanboy, its because i am --- for a lot of reasons, but i do think its a dreadful shame that a few million screaming people in LA and San Fran give the state such a black eye when it comes to many many other things

[JohndeFresno]

They cannot prohibit the shipment of "gifts" however, so long as those "gifts" comply with USPS/Common Carrier shipping Rules...

How does one receive a "gift" from a non FFL person when Hazmat rules apply on loaded ammo? Can a regular citizen pay a Hazmat fee at a UPS store, and will they accept the shipment from a private party - or do you know??

[Old Ironsights]

They cannot prohibit the shipment of "gifts" however, so long as those "gifts" comply with USPS/Common Carrier shipping Rules...

How does one receive a "gift" from a non FFL person when Hazmat rules apply on loaded ammo? Can a regular citizen pay a Hazmat fee at a UPS store, and will they accept the shipment from a private party - or do you know??

I meant more along the lines of Speedloaders.

But , Yah, you go to UPS and pay the hazmat fee and you can ship anything not DOT prohibited.

OTOH, I see a corking business proposition for those doing Mail Order on the Nevada/Oregon borders and making personal deliveries...

[Hillbilly]

That's sad... speed loaders are not particualry speedy some times.

Back in the day... I worked with a couple of old timers who could keep up with us "speedloader" guys ... and they were working out of dump pouches or loops.

OKCPD still requires 18 rounds in 25 seconds (IIRC) just as a reloading test on revolvers... from loops.

I guess I shouldnt talk of these things... Jerry Brown will be outlawing drop pouches and loops next....

[JohndeFresno]

That's sad... speed loaders are not particualry speedy some times.

Back in the day... I worked with a couple of old timers who could keep up with us "speedloader" guys ... and they were working out of dump pouches or loops.

OKCPD still requires 18 rounds in 25 seconds (IIRC) just as a reloading test on revolvers... from loops.

I guess I shouldnt talk of these things... Jerry Brown will be outlawing drop pouches and loops next....

Yup - we used to have a time limit with our six-shooters, and a dump pouch or even a speed strip (allowing you to load two at a time) was the norm, since it presented a flat profile on the belt. But as one gets a little older and less nimble, those speedloaders are the only way to go with your .38, .357 or .44's with swing out cylinders.

I read on some site about a cowboy action shooter who loads his single-action .45 ACP (I guess a Ruger Blackhawk) by thumbing the rounds from a semi-auto magazine - very clever idea.

[Old Ironsights]

That's sad... speed loaders are not particualry speedy some times.

Back in the day... I worked with a couple of old timers who could keep up with us "speedloader" guys ... and they were working out of dump pouches or loops.

OKCPD still requires 18 rounds in 25 seconds (IIRC) just as a reloading test on revolvers... from loops.

I guess I shouldnt talk of these things... Jerry Brown will be outlawing drop pouches and loops next....

Yup - we used to have a time limit with our six-shooters, and a dump pouch or even a speed strip (allowing you to load two at a time) was the norm, since it presented a flat profile on the belt. But as one gets a little older and less nimble, those speedloaders are the only way to go with your .38, .357 or .44's with swing out cylinders...

I like Bianchi Speed Strips...

[Old Savage]

The state is fine - the democrats are not. The main threat to America and Americanism is the democrats. You can throw in those who depend on them.

[jeepnik]

Last call, Californians. The new law takes effect soon - no ammo allowed in Interstate (Internet) sales.

If you read the law, that includes SPEEDLOADERS. Since it is usually hit and miss to get the right size for your particular handgun, if at all, from a local gun store, you might want to get them now by the Internet.

I just purchased my last eight HKS speedloaders ($9.99 each) from Cabela's - 4 for my .357 Python, 4 for my Taurus 44 Magnum.

The Cabela's site and catalog alert you that orders must be placed by 1/21/2011 at 9PM CST
in order for them to legally process and ship ammo to you.

And gear up for possible shortages as a crowd of new reloading aficionados run for the powder, primers, and other components.

I have a solution

Arizona

[Ysabel Kid]

I'm just thankful I don't have to live there.

Rob

+1

Unreal. I feel bad for all the CA levergunners...

[AJMD429]

...I do think its a dreadful shame that a few million screaming people in LA and San Fran give the state such a black eye when it comes to many many other things

That's the way most CITIES are relative to most RURAL areas.

There is more difference between the cities and rural areas politically right here in the U.S., than there probably is between rural U.S. and rural Chinese, or urban U.S. and urban Chinese, or whatever other country you want to substitute...

[Ysabel Kid]

...I do think its a dreadful shame that a few million screaming people in LA and San Fran give the state such a black eye when it comes to many many other things

That's the way most CITIES are relative to most RURAL areas.

+1

That's what Chicago did to Illinois when I lived there, Detroit did to Michigan when I lived there, and to a lesser extent, what Charlotte does to NC...

[JerryB]

This sure does make these north Arkansaw Ozarks seem just plumb nice.

[Rifleman336]

Dumb question are they outlawing speedloaders all together or just that they have to be bought in state?

[Old Ironsights]

Dumb question are they outlawing speedloaders all together or just that they have to be bought in state?

You just can't order them in vial internet/mail order.

[kimwcook]

Can someone from California tell me the legislative intent of the law?

[MrMurphy]

I foresee a gunshop opening five hundred yards past the CA/AZ border.

[JohndeFresno]

Can someone from California tell me the legislative intent of the law?

The hidden intent is to slow down gun sales and use by attacking ammunition sales; the Internet ban includes all "handgun ammunition related" sales by Internet, including gun magazines.

California has initiated or will initiate the law that requires all handgun ammo purchasers to register with thumbprint and so on, pay a yearly registration fee, and sign for literally every box of ammo, with a monthly limit. Ostensibly to cut down gang violence and shootings.

The other stated intent by the Governator is that we need to keep the sales tax here, instead of going on the Internet where (in most cases) one pays no taxes, and certainly not to our financially beleagured state. This is because it was foolishly administered by ultra liberal former Governor Gray Davis, way before this goofy stimulus program or the current national Administration was in power, and he took us from a state with money in the bank to a state that dipped deeply into the red - not a political statement, a provable fact.

So - stated agenda:
Crime control, keeping ammo out of the hands of gangsters and tracking ammo used in crimes (sure...rrright)
Guaranteed tax income to a broke state (funny that ALL sales are not banned, then, over the Internet - eh?)

By the way, I have to admit I get a little steamed when somebody from another state constantly has to gloat over the stuff I have to put up with here as a patriotic, conservative, former dedicated public servant and citizen, but being tied down here as a father and grandfather helping the rest of my struggling family (as a responsible parent should do). I didn't ask for this. I didn't quit college and volunteer to fight in Viet Nam for this. I didn't go out of my way to be a good public servant to my community and state for this for some 38 plus years.

Enjoy your freedoms while you can, because unless things change, you are next - we're just the testing ground - so keep laughing.

Now - The real agenda:
More gun control, restrictions, and forced registration, endorsed by the Kennedy clan that Schwarzenegger married into (in the name of "public safety").

NOTE: EDITED - "Handgun" added to the word "ammunition" - the law is ostensibly only an Internet handgun ammo ban. JdeF

[Mike D.]

As I read the law it applies to handgun ammunition only. Does it include the internet sales of rifle bullets and cases?

[TMair]

Can someone from California tell me the legislative intent of the law?

The hidden intent is to slow down gun sales and use by attacking ammunition sales; the Internet ban includes all "ammunition related" sales by Internet, including gun magazines.

California has initiated or will initiate the law that requires all ammo purchasers to register with thumbprint and so on, pay a yearly registration fee, and sign for literally every box of ammo, with a monthly limit. Ostensibly to cut down gang violence and shootings.

The other stated intent by the Governator is that we need to keep the sales tax here, instead of going on the Internet where (in most cases) one pays no taxes, and certainly not to our financially beleagured state. This is because it was foolishly administered by ultra liberal former Governor Gray Davis, way before this goofy stimulus program or the current national Administration was in power, and he took us from a state with money in the bank to a state that dipped deeply into the red - not a political statement, a provable fact.

So - stated agenda:
Crime control, keeping ammo out of the hands of gangsters and tracking ammo used in crimes (sure...rrright)
Guaranteed tax income to a broke state (funny that ALL sales are not banned, then, over the Internet - eh?)

By the way, I have to admit I get a little steamed when somebody from another state constantly has to gloat over the stuff I have to put up with here as a patriotic, conservative, former dedicated public servant and citizen, but being tied down here as a father and grandfather helping the rest of my struggling family (as a responsible parent should do). I didn't ask for this. I didn't quit college and volunteer to fight in Viet Nam for this. I didn't go out of my way to be a good public servant to my community and state for this for some 38 plus years.

Enjoy your freedoms while you can, because unless things change, you are next - we're just the testing ground - so keep laughing.

Now - The real agenda:
More gun control, restrictions, and forced registration, endorsed by the Kennedy clan that Schwarzenegger married into (in the name of "public safety").

I don't know about anyh one else but I know I am not laughing, I just hope that the rest of the country realized how stupid this kind of thinking realy is.

I was looking for a gun on an auction site, one of the sellers disclaimers said to the effect, "we do not sell to california residences, when you decide to join the United States let us know" now that made me laugh!
Terry

[gary rice]

I hadent heard that primers and powder are a prohibited item for internet sales in calif.

[JohndeFresno]

As I read the law it applies to handgun ammunition only. Does it include the internet sales of rifle bullets and cases?

We'll see. I have now thrown the Cabela's catalog out, but I believe that it said "all" ammo sales will cease here. In other press releases, Cabela's (for one) had already stated that they would not bother selling any ammo if the Assembly Bill passed (which it did).

Certainly bullets of .22 caliber, and practically every rifle round can be fired in a Thompson Center pistol or other handguns, so it is easy for the zealots to argue that this is handgun fodder. I guess you'll have to try an order with each supplier and see how that company handles your order. My guess, based upon how the industry has responded to California clients in related issues, is that most or all of the companies will just not bother to ship anything here to avoid possible future legal repercussions. The fact that this stupid law passed so easily - under the guise of "public safety" - should tell ALL of us something.

The online purchases of primers, bullets ("boolits") and brass is still allowed, for now. I have e-mailed and called several suppliers - Barnes, Hornady, Midway among them - and they have not heard anything in the industry that would indicate a move in this direction - yet.

But Clinton or members of his entourage tried to introduce a high tariff on primers once before. That, of course, would put the kabosh on everything except shooting flintlocks and potato guns. We must be vigilant.

[BAGTIC]

This sure does make these north Arkansaw Ozarks seem just plumb nice.

Almost as nice as the south Missouri Ozarks.

I was recently delighted to learn that we can direct order long guns from dealers in contiguous states.

[BAGTIC]

The more extreme the situation gets in Kalifornia the easier it will be to defeat them in the courts.

Some of Kalifornia's proposals blatantly violate the interstate commerce clause. California has lost lawsuits on that basis several times before.

As for me I long ago stopped doing business with Kalifornia businesses. Let the whole darn state starve to death.

[gary rice]

The more extreme the situation gets in Kalifornia the easier it will be to defeat them in the courts.

Some of Kalifornia's proposals blatantly violate the interstate commerce clause. California has lost lawsuits on that basis several times before.

As for me I long ago stopped doing business with Kalifornia businesses. Let the whole darn state starve to death.

I am one of those unfortunate enough to reside here and the state is starving.. State and local governments are technically bankrupt. they just havent been told that yet.

[Catshooter]

Enjoy your freedoms while you can, because unless things change, you are next - we're just the testing ground - so keep laughing.

JdeF

While I do feel your pain John, I must respectfully disagree with part of your statement. I have heard people say for years on the net that "as California goes, so the rest of the nation goes". But if you look around, it's just not true anymore.

In many states the reverse is now true. The laws are getting better and better. Do they have a long ways to go? Totally. Should we relax and trust our "leaders"? Totally . . . not.

I can certainly understand your getting steamed, no one enjoys being laughed at. Human nature. It's also human nature to look at someone whos' circumstances are worse than ours and be, if nothing else, releived that that's not us.

But in the interest of full disclosure I must confess I have posted "Move if you don't like it" to others in your situation. I suspect (and I could be very wrong) that most Californians who should move, don't. Not can't. Don't. Big difference. This is the voice of experience here. I moved the hell out of Washington state which is becoming more and more California every day. It wasn't easy or cheap, but we did it. I took the part of my family that was worth helping with me, the rest can stay and go with the state.

Maybe you can't move. But it's kinda hard for us out here in Internet land to tell. And we aren't going down the same road as you, sorry, we aren't. Just the way it is. Some states/cities, sure. But lots aren't.

Good luck to you either way because it's gonna get worse there before it gets better, if it ever does.


Cat

[JohndeFresno]

While I do feel your pain John, I must respectfully disagree with part of your statement. I have heard people say for years on the net that "as California goes, so the rest of the nation goes". But if you look around, it's just not true anymore...The laws are getting better and better..most Californians who should move, don't.

Well, Catshooter, I guess we'll be friendly but have different views.

A few years ago, before liberal California politicians' lawyers figured out how to share their brand of election infighting, I recall that Florida held elections that weren't such a fiasco. If a tiny minority of people were clueless on how to physically cast their vote, they got advice, stayed home, or the chips fell where they may - but the process didn't involve an almost total shutdown of the system for the rest of the voters, chaos, lots of nonsense about chads, voting machine conspiracies, and so on. Didn't a bunch of folks stream into your state to help change that a teeny bit, in one or more of your major elections? It seems that I saw something on the news - for a month or two.

And how about the California-born political correctness with respect to a schoolteacher being prohibited from reading his/her Bible on school grounds at lunch hour - how's that working for y'all, now, in Florida? For the most part, you can insert any state's name to that question.

And I could go on for many pages on the great laws that are being introduced and passed each day. Please be sure to read the punch line, at the bottom of the post.

And it is easy for folks without family ties or heavy responsibilities to arrogantly (if I may say so) tell others that they are in effect creating their own problem by not running away from this fine state (that is administered by lunatics and perverts). But some of us have responsibilities and family ties, and are doing what responsible persons would do, attending to ailing relatives; and/or being there for struggling youngsters in a depressed economy who need a little help with their young families and/or whatever the situation is. No, it's not my place to talk about my family needs here. Were that not the case, I'd be long gone, as would others.

As for all states, you might want to take a close look at some of the legislation that your fine solons have, from time to time, tried to sneak in, and the general ongoing struggle against the Soros group trying to take all Americans' guns away in the name of world peace and compliance with UN sanctions. Before you give our nation a passing grade in the "new laws" department, that is.

THE PUNCHLINE: We had better stay united instead of looking down on hapless business owners and citizens of another state, held hostage by bad politics.

And for those others who keep bragging, "my state is better than yours," actually - our state and climate combined still make it the most beautiful, and clearly the most geographically diverse, state in the union, I could say, if I were similarly as boorish as some posters. As a matter of fact, the nice climate and conveniences of our once booming and overly generous economy are largely how we inherited so many freeloaders and wierdos from some of the states who are now acting so proud, to put it bluntly. They weren't all born here, by a long shot.

Hey - that felt pretty good.

[donw]

unfortunately, California is controlled by San Francisco, Los Angeles and the big cities (although I've heard many times, and read, that San Diego is considered a conservative city) and they're cities that're plagued with gang activities so that has a great deal of influence on the so-called "legislators" in Sacramento.

Kevin de Leon returns email unopened to pro-gun correspondence, as an example and he's on the key "safety committee" and is KNOWN to be very anti-gun.

what's even more astonishing is the people of California RE-elected the same ones who generated the mess we're in right now!

you may rely on it getting worse with Jerry Brown and Gavin Newsome in office...two of the worse legislators to have ever been elected and their back ground proves it. both are right in there with Diane Feinstein in their beliefs about gun control.

California has had the stone age thinking legislators for too many years.

as of late, it seems to me that while most states are passing "common sense" laws and decent laws about firearms, kaliphornia is going the opposite direction. but again...just look at the legislators...democratic, liberal controlled legislature with but a few republican and non-democratic representatives with very large number of liberal, democratic, women representatives.

i heard on the news (more than once) that one of the reasons we're in the bankrupt position we're in is because of the pensions of state and county retiree's...

[stew71]

I foresee a gunshop opening five hundred yards past the CA/AZ border.

It's called Cabela's. In Boomtown, off I-80, as you enter Reno from the West. The in-laws are about 5 minutes from that magical place of hopes and dreams, and the car is often packed with all sorts of evil stuff on the return trip home.

Picked up a couple of cases of .45ACP over Christmas, along with plenty of .22LR.

Stick that up yer tailpipe and spin, California Legislature!!!

[Old Ironsights]

I foresee a gunshop opening five hundred yards past the CA/AZ border.

It's called Cabela's. In Boomtown, off I-80, as you enter Reno from the West. The in-laws are about 5 minutes from that magical place of hopes and dreams, and the car is often packed with all sorts of evil stuff on the return trip home.

Picked up a couple of cases of .45ACP over Christmas, along with plenty of .22LR.

Stick that up yer tailpipe and spin, California Legislature!!!

OTOH, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that CHP puts an Undercover in every Border Town Gunshop Parkinglot to radio in all Cali License Plates on departure from said lot.

It's been done before, notably in States that "allow" Fireworks Sales that border States that "prohibit" Possession of Fireworks...

[handirifle]

I was looking for a gun on an auction site, one of the sellers disclaimers said to the effect, "we do not sell to california residences, when you decide to join the United States let us know" now that made me laugh!
Terry

I have only one wish for businesses that say and support comments like this one above. I say, may the BATFE be on your doorstep tomorrow and every day till you go OUT of business.

Their type of devisive comments only reflect their lazy and ignorant attitude towards the second amendment and it's supporters, no matter where they reside. I have purchased MANY firearms, legally, from out of state sellers. The last one was a levergun (Marlin 1895GS) from a Texas lawman. He had zero issues sending it to a FFL here, and the FFL had zero issues receiving it.

by the way, I, too would liked to have left CA when I retired but as was mentioned before, some of us live up to family responsibilities, and need to be here in order to carry them out.

Regarding the laws, how many of you smokers, can still smoke in resturaunts? Well enjoy it while you can cause THAT CA law will be nationwide before you know it. Some of our laws are way beyond absurd (SFO banning happy meals, is one), but like ALL laws, they are made by people that THINK they are fixing a problem, imagined or real.

Some examples are even worse. I can think of some states that have many liberties, that they SHOULDN'T have. Believe me I am a HUGE supporter of the right to carry, but, if I read it correctly, you can carry your concealed handgun into a BAR in AZ????? One of the first things I EVER learned about guns and booze, from everyone I ever had contact with, is they do not mix. Firearms should be cleaned and put away BEFORE you have a drink. DUH! So it's OK to sit and have a few while carrying concealed? Sorry this Ohio born and raised fellow thinks THAT is asking for troubles.

So see different folks have different points of view. As for levergunners here, the WORST issue I have, at least for now, is the non lead bullet issue for hunting.

As for the state itself. With the exception of Alaska, it's hands down the most beautiful state in all of the US. When you factor in weather, then CA is tops, period. Those that will never visit this state, are really the ones losing out. My brother and sister in law came out a few years back, from Ohio. His first visit as an adult. He was taken aback by the beauty and awesomeness of this state. He also wasn't aware of how important California's agriculture market is to the rest of the entire US.

Rant off.

[TMair]

As for the state itself. With the exception of Alaska, it's hands down the most beautiful state in all of the US. When you factor in weather, then CA is tops, period. Those that will never visit this state, are really the ones losing out. My brother and sister in law came out a few years back, from Ohio. His first visit as an adult. He was taken aback by the beauty and awesomeness of this state. He also wasn't aware of how important California's agriculture market is to the rest of the entire US.

Rant off.

Being from Ut. I'll beg to differ with you on this one, but Cal does have it purty parts
Terry

[Old Savage]

kimcook, the legislative intent of the law is to go after firearms ownership and use in anyway possible.

[Alan Wood]

kimcook, the legislative intent of the law is to go after firearms ownership and use in anyway possible.

That being said and I do agree, the stated justification was that several cities had caught prohibited persons with firearms due to the requirements.


Alan Wood

[Catshooter]

Jon,

Oh, sorry, I thought we were discussing firearm laws. They, in some states are getting better. Of course all most all of them still violate the 2nd, but never mind.

Laws in general? To me, that's a whole 'nuther subject and craziness abounds everywhere that I can see. There's what, in excess of two million laws at the federal level? If that's not nutty I don't know what is. Did you read what that insane swine that shot the Arizona Rep has been charged with? Not murder/attemped murder. No, murder of a Federal Employee and suchlike. As if they are much more important (and of course they are, in their eyes).

In my world we could loose about 90% of our laws and about 114% of our legislators and be much better off. If I were Emporor after giving the UN 15 minutes to get off my lawn I would then immediatley hold 536 funerals. Then I'd get busy re-modeling this wonderful country. Probably not gonna happen though.


Cat

[Old Savage]

The charge of murder of a fed employee/representative gives the feds jurisdiction.

[JohndeFresno]

kimcook, the legislative intent of the law is to go after firearms ownership and use in anyway possible.

That being said and I do agree, the stated justification was that several cities had caught prohibited persons with firearms due to the requirements.


Alan Wood

More to the point, however - they don't publish the stats of the vastly higher number of firearms confiscated through arrests and search warrants from gang-bangers and career criminals who have been released after getting overly light sentences "in the interests of Justice" by our liberal weenie judges and career-driven DA's in this state.

If they did, it would be plain even to the Left Coast college indoctrinated and real-world deprived young voters what a repressive and ineffective law this is. That is, as opposed to throwing the miscreants in prison, for lengthy sentences to keep them off the streets - where they belong.

[JohndeFresno]

Jon,

Oh, sorry, I thought we were discussing firearm laws. They, in some states are getting better. Of course all most all of them still violate the 2nd, but never mind....Cat

Cat,

I agree 100% with your post.

[Bogie35]

I sympathize with John. He's a good man for being dedicated to his family. Heck, after the 2008 election, I was looking at "defecting" to Costa Rica.....and I live in South Carolina!

However, it may not be long before we see California "border patrol" along the Arizona border.

Regardless, California's biggest problem (and possibly America's as well) is Hollywood and the liberal media. We've allowed them to become far too influencial.

Btw, California IS beautiful.....but too expensive to visit twice in one lifetime. The Pacific Coast Highway is astonishingly beautiful.

God bless you John!

Bogie

[JohndeFresno]

Thank you, Bogie. He certainly does.

[handirifle]

Cat
I understand, and even though I was discussing other types of law, the stupidity seems more contaigous every year. I sincerely hope none of the other states ever get this insane. The liberals have nearly destroyed, what was once the wealthiest and most prosperous states, that was also very friendly to hunters and firearms owners. I have lived here since '72, and have watched it steadily decline in a lot of ways, but every one of them stems from one of two things. First is folks that have an entitlement mentality, and those that think they have the right to take from others, to support that mentality.

Yes, it is the major cities (hollywood doesn't have the influence they THINK they have), like LA San Diego, and San Fran Sisco, and Sacramento, that run the state. They have the mass populace when it comes to votes. When you look at the red/blue map after an election, look closely. You will see 90% of the physical state, going conservative, but the busy little ants that crowd themselves in the cities, make up over 60% of the population (prob much higher). They like living there, and getting their meat from where it's made.....the grocery store. And THAT is the mentality I deal with on a pretty regular basis.

I will stay here as long as I can afford it. If "moonbeam" Brown raises taxes too much, and my being on a fixed income, that might not be that much longer. But after investing hundreds of thousands of $$$ into relocating and building a new home, it won't be an easy decision. Beside all our kids, and beautiful grandaughter, live here.

And as for Utah being prettier than CA, exception noted, although I do reserve the right to disagree

[stew71]

I foresee a gunshop opening five hundred yards past the CA/AZ border.

It's called Cabela's. In Boomtown, off I-80, as you enter Reno from the West. The in-laws are about 5 minutes from that magical place of hopes and dreams, and the car is often packed with all sorts of evil stuff on the return trip home.

Picked up a couple of cases of .45ACP over Christmas, along with plenty of .22LR.

Stick that up yer tailpipe and spin, California Legislature!!!

OTOH, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that CHP puts an Undercover in every Border Town Gunshop Parkinglot to radio in all Cali License Plates on departure from said lot.

It's been done before, notably in States that "allow" Fireworks Sales that border States that "prohibit" Possession of Fireworks...

Except that purchasing ammo in another state and transporting it across state lines is still legal. And, they haven't yet prohibited possession of handgun ammo so it would accomplish nothing.

I know...you meant it with sarcasm.

[darkwater]

I apologize for entering this discussion late. As a 5th generation native here in CA, I too am not about to move because all my family and my wife's family are here. As a responsible citizen, I feel it is my duty to stay and fight for what's right!

Do not despair, my fellow Californians, hope is on the way in the form of three separate lawsuits, one of which starts in court next week. Thanks to how poorly AB962 was written, and that it appears to conflict with federal interstate commerce laws, it has a good chance of getting shot down.

Here are the lawsuits to follow:
http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index ... v._Lindley
http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index ... California
http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index ... v._Lindley (however, case was dismissed last month without prejudice, meaning it can be brought up again when it can demostrate "current harm" or "immediate concern", since the lawsuit attacked a law not yet in effect)

Here are the organizations responsible for pressing the attack that need your financial support:
National Rifle Association: http://home.nra.org/#/home
California Rifle & Pistol Association: http://www.crpa.org/
Calguns Foundation: http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/

And a good forum to keep abreast of CA 2A developments: http://www.calguns.net/

Stay informed, be proactive, and convert newbies by taking them shooting!

[darkwater]

And for those that think CA gun laws exist in a vacuum and won't affect the rest of the nation, the US Senator from CA, Barbara Boxer, is working hard to change that, to make the rest of the nation's gun laws more in line with CA gun laws: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2 ... oting.html

[JohndeFresno]

Great posts, Darkwater. Thanks. Very encouraging.