Model 94 in .32 Win Special

Stan in SC · Post by **Stan in SC** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:33 pm

The widow of a deceased dear friend called me with the news she had found firearms in his closet and wanted me to dispose of them for her.On a trip thru her town yesterday my wife and I dropped in for a quick visit.I picked up the rifle and two shotguns.The shotguns were nothing really special.A Sears(made by Winchester) semi auto 12 gauge and a Stevens .410 bolt action.The third case I opened really caught my eye.A really nice looking Winchester Model 94 in .32 Win Special.The serial number research indicated a manufacture date of 1955.Bore is perfect.Overall the rifle is an 8 on a 1 to 10 scale.The deceased gent was my college roommate and we were like brothers for almost fifty years.I didn't even know he had this particular rifle.
I am going to buy this one for myself.I like lever actions.It has some meaning for me having belonged to him.
When I look at the ballistic tables for the caliber I find it is almost identical in performance to the 30-30.From what I see it is basically a 30-30 cartridge blown out to .32 caliber.I'd like some education on why this cartridge came to be and why it might be superior to the venerable 30-30 cartridge.Thanks for your assistance.

Stan in SC

iceman · Post by **iceman** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:42 pm

I remember reading somewhere that the 32 sp was designed to be easily reloaded with black powder because smokeless was not readily available at the time. It is very similar to the 30-30 and has sparked many a campfire debate as to which was better. Take it to the range and enjoy it in your friend's memory.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:55 pm

Nothing personal, its not superior to the 30-30. Its dead even but........that caliber does have a slight bit more appeal to collectors as less of them were made. You can make brass just by running a 30-30 case in a 32 Spl. die.

There's plenty of theories on why the 32 Spl came about but the below picture explains it best---not to mention that Winchester had plenty of barrel stock for the 32-40 with the 1-16 twist.

------Sixgun

Post by **Old Savage** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:07 pm

Stan, I think your assumption is correct - thanks again for your generosity - package arrived today.

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:12 pm

I would treasure that '94 to the end of my days.

mod71alaska · Post by **mod71alaska** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:29 pm

kimwcook wrote:I would treasure that '94 to the end of my days.

+1 for sure. Sure sorry about losing your college friend.

Here's some cartridge info for you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.32_Winchester_Special

Scott Young · Post by **Scott Young** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:48 am

for all intent and purposes it is downplayed to the 30-30 by almost everyone. I have found it a joy to hunt with and it will kill quite beautifully. the only difference you will find between it and the 30-30 is on paper and bullet selection. I reload and reload it with two different bullets. one is a 170 grain bullet and the other is a buckshot that is run though a sizer then loaded for small game. In a pinch one time, I ran couple 158gr 38/357 swc's through the sizer and loaded them for hog hunting. For almost all my plinking loads I use 10 grains of unique and what ever lead I can stuff in front of it. It shoots like a dream.

Nazgul · Post by **Nazgul** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:19 am

I have a 1959 32 Win Special 94. Very accurate with the RCBS bullet and fun to shoot. Somewhat unique, the 32 is an effective hunting round. Probably not significantly more power than a 30-30 but has a slight edge.

Enjoy the history of the gun. My intention is to give mine to my grandson some day.

Don

Marlin32 · Post by **Marlin32** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:21 pm

It is indeed superiror to the 30/30. Why do you think it is named "Special"?
The same mass of lead, larger diameter, shorter length allows more room for powder, larger diameter will allow that bullet to expand and preform better than the 30/30.

In all seriousness, the 32 is a slight bit ahead of 30/30. Probably not enough for a deer to know it, but bit better all the same.

Love the caliber, hence my moniker. So I may be a bit biased.

There are a lot of myths and misconceptions about it. It is NOT less accurate or prone to inaccuracy even with age, no different than any other cartridge, that is one myth out the window.

Stan in SC · Post by **Stan in SC** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:45 pm

Thank you all for your comments.I appreciate your interest.

Stan in SC

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:05 pm

What Marlin32 said +1

Nazgul · Post by **Nazgul** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:17 pm

My 32 is very accurate with cast bullets. I was impressed when I started shooting it.

Don

OJ · Post by OJ » Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:56 am

I had one for my coyote gun back in the 1930s - I was a young cowboy in the Sandhills of western Nebrasks - loved it - somehow through a couple of wars, med school, internship, and surgical residency training at the county hospital for Detroit - multiple moves before settling down, I lost it so now settle for my 94s in 30-30 that are nearly as much fun to shoot.

Wish I still had it though

Bullard4075 · Post by **Bullard4075** » Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:05 am

"There are a lot of myths and misconceptions about it. It is NOT less accurate or prone to inaccuracy even with age, no different than any other cartridge, that is one myth out the window."

This is the one I've always heard, something to do with shallow rifling. Anyone have a theory on how it got started?

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:29 am

I believe some of the early 32 Special had something especially corrosive about the ammo: primers? This and pitting down the road, I believe, has been given as possible reason for the bad accuracy reputation. Mic McPherson is sure a fan and writes admiringly of the cartridge. Bigger bullet base than 30/30=less pressure and increased perfomance with comparable loads, according to him and others. Sounds right but as stated the deer probably can't tell the difference with a well placed shot. Less pressure in getting the same job done is reason enough for me.

OldWin · Post by **OldWin** » Thu Dec 09, 2010 3:17 pm

Around here it tends to be whatever one a person started using first they prefer. I started with a 30-30 and it was many years before I got a 32WS. I have several of each now and kind of prefer 32. In my guns it always seems to be a little more accurate. It definitely manages the pressure of IMR3031 better.

southfork · Post by **southfork** » Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:21 am

How do you mean the 32 Special handles the 3031 pressure better? Not being a smart ***, but would really like to know. I got my first old Model 94 30-30 Winchester carbine when I was 13, and shot 5 deer with it before age 22, when my brother borrowed it and lost it (to a pawnshop). Now, 40 years later, a pretty 1912-vintage Model 94 saddle ring carbine in 32 Win special brings back fond old memories of my first Model 94. Speaking of pressure, the bolt must have been springy on my old 30-30, because upon firing, the primer would stick out noticeably. It had probably been overloaded a lot before I got it.

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:46 am

southfork wrote:How do you mean the 32 Special handles the 3031 pressure better? Not being a smart ***, but would really like to know. I got my first old Model 94 30-30 Winchester carbine when I was 13, and shot 5 deer with it before age 22, when my brother borrowed it and lost it (to a pawnshop). Now, 40 years later, a pretty 1912-vintage Model 94 saddle ring carbine in 32 Win special brings back fond old memories of my first Model 94. Speaking of pressure, the bolt must have been springy on my old 30-30, because upon firing, the primer would stick out noticeably. It had probably been overloaded a lot before I got it.

Maybe some physics type can chime in here and explain it in terms much better than mine. I think of it as trying to squirt identical amounts of water through a hole...one slightly larger(32 Special), one slightly smaller(30-30). There is a bigger path for all the gasses to blow through....more space, with the 32, and there is more surface area for the gasses to act upon with the base of the 32 Special bullet which somehow makes the tranfer of energy more efficient as compared to the smaller surface area of the 30-30. Now I have sacrificed myself on the alter of ignorance so that someone more knowledgable will chime in and answer your question.

southfork · Post by **southfork** » Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:04 pm

That's sounds logical. Thanks.

OldWin · Post by **OldWin** » Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:54 pm

I agree with C Cash about the bore diameter in relation to pressure. The slower twist rate may help too but I'm not sure. All I know for sure is if you look in a Lyman manual that lists pressure for each load and compare the same charge of IMR3031 between 30-30 and 32WS the 32 is considerably lower.

Bosco · Post by **Bosco** » Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:31 pm

I grew up thinking that it was a staple cartridge as my grandfather has been using a winchester "94 for 60 plus years chambered in 32 special. My great uncle and my uncle both hunt with that cartridge occasionally. Grandpa has killed some where around 150 deer with it along with a few bear in that time. We consider it "plenty adequate" in our family.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Fri Dec 10, 2010 7:05 pm

The 32 Winchester Special is equal to the 30WCF in every respect except bore size. "X" amount of any given powder in a given size container will develop "Y" pressure which when pushing against two items of equal resistence (think grains of weight or Mass) will generate "Z" velocity.

In fact, I'd suggest that the the .32WS, being of larger bore than the .30WCF would lose pressure faster than its predecessor given that the size the of the "container" expands exponentially larger than the 30WCF as the projectile proceeds down the barrel, giving REDUCED performance if loaded with equal amounts of the same powder.

I'm sure that someone will come along and say that their 32WS with 165 grain bullets will outperform a specific .30-30 with the same charge and weight projectiles. In rebuttal, I'd note that I have some 24 operating .30-30s and can use the same load in different rifles and come up with different performance. The two rounds are just too much alike to be argued over. Oh, wait, I forget human nature... add that into the equation and arguments are assured.

As found out within months of the 30WCF's introduction, when reloaded with readily available BP, it fouls terribly, has VERY poor energy and velocity. Whereas both the original calibers in the model 1894 (.32-40 and .38-55) were originally BP cartridges and worked beautifully, the demand for a bit more performance with lighter and faster bullets prompted Winchester to blow out the .30-30 to a .323 and gain case capacity over the .32-40, and a bit more performance. The .32 WS loaded with BP IS a better performer than the .30-30 loaded with BP; but, with smokeless, there's such a negligible difference as to render discussion moot.

My condolences for the loss of your friend, and I'm sure, that like me, you'd rather have your friend than their guns. But, congrats on your new rifle; as it's far better that you have it than some stranger. Now, where're the PICS????

Stan in SC · Post by **Stan in SC** » Fri Dec 10, 2010 7:34 pm

Pics?Old guys who are barely computer literate do not "do" pics.

Stan in SC

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sat Dec 11, 2010 12:07 am

Stan in SC wrote:Pics?Old guys who are barely computer literate do not "do" pics.
Stan in SC

Stan, ya got a "tag line"; pics are easy. And mostly, the rest of us are "old" guys also!

OldWin · Post by **OldWin** » Sat Dec 11, 2010 7:23 am

Trust me guy's, I love both cartridges and have taken deer and all sorts of varmints with both. From 24, 20, and 16 inch barrels. These are extremely effective and well balanced cartridges in my opinion. The only change I've made is to W748 for 30-30 while sticking with IMR3031 for 32WS.

I really hope I didn't open a can of worms

Stan in SC · Post by **Stan in SC** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 4:35 pm

Today dawned bright and sunny and very mild outside.I have been really eager to shoot the Model 94 in .32WINSpec.
Right after I bought the rifle I found nine boxes of Federal premium cartridges at the shop.The shop owner had had them on the shelf for several years and saw no immediate prospect of selling them so I was able to obtain a pretty good price on the lot.This gives me brass to work with when I get to reloading this caliber plus it gives me some really nice stuff to shoot in the meantime.
I got to the range early in the afternoon and set up a target at 100 yards.My first shot was four inches high and about 2 inches right.The rear sight elevator was set all the way to it's lowest point.I figured then that this was one of those rifles that you gotta take a fine bead and shoot a six o'clock hold.The next shot was about two inches high and centered over the bull.OK,REALLY fine bead.YESSS!!!! That shot and the next three were in and right around the bull.For 100 yards I feel this is really accurate for iron sights at that distance.I am very satisfied that the rifle is as accurate as it is and I'm looking forward to deer season next year with a new weapon.
The heat of firing had loosened up some old dirt in the action so when I got it home I gave it a really good deep cleaning.I feel great about the rifle now.

Stan in SC

Stan in SC · Post by **Stan in SC** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:22 pm

In reducing the number of firearms I own I had listed the .32 Win. Special Model 94 for sale.I guess someone was trying to tell me something when no one bought it.Maybe Tom,the deceased previous owner,was responsible.Anyway,I have decided that the .32 Win Special is now going to be a permanent member of the gun safe.Accordingly I ordered dies and bullets from Midway today.Kinda funny how things work out sometimes.eh?

Stan in SC

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:07 pm

Stan in SC wrote:In reducing the number of firearms I own I had listed the .32 Win. Special Model 94 for sale.I guess someone was trying to tell me something when no one bought it.Maybe Tom,the deceased previous owner,was responsible.Anyway,I have decided that the .32 Win Special is now going to be a permanent member of the gun safe.Accordingly I ordered dies and bullets from Midway today.Kinda funny how things work out sometimes.eh?

Stan in SC

Stan,
After you bought your friends rifle, did the research, bought the ammo, I'm really amazed you even considered selling it. Such a thought would never occur to me.

Perhaps you should apologize to your friend then take that fine old 94 hunting.

Joe

Stan in SC · Post by **Stan in SC** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:13 pm

J Miller,
The apology has already been offered.The doggone thing shot soooo good and that's what started me thinking I need to keep it.

Stan in SC

Stan in SC · Post by **Stan in SC** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 5:54 pm

Today I took the .32Win special to the gun club to compare the factory loadings with my recent reloads.I have shot this rifle enough now that we are good friends and in shooting it I wound up with brass for reloads.So this was the morning to see if my loads are indeed worthy.
First was two Federal 170 grain which is what I have been shooting.At 100 yards they grouped about 1/2" apart.Next I shot two 170 grain reloads which seemed a wee bit hotter than the Federals.They grouped about 3/4" apart and an inch higher than the Federals.The four shot group was about 2 inches which to me is entirely acceptable.I am very pleased with the results so I will now utilize the rest of the available brass using this load.
This rifle has never had a sling on it nor a scope and IT NEVER WILL.

Stan in SC

jdad · Post by **jdad** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:12 pm

Winchester did make some very nice rifles chambered in 32 Special.

ollogger · Post by **ollogger** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:23 pm

enjoy that old gun & its secret history, i shoot the heck outta
my 100 yr. old 32 WS

Mutt · Post by **Mutt** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:35 pm

I once owned a lever Winchester 32 Sp. Bought it new from a feed store going out of the guns selling section . Ammo is about to same as 30.30 .
Maybe a bit larger hole . The gun was the only large lever I ever owned. Aprox 16-18inch barrel. But , it too went to the the new owners , being outlaws that I truly wish I'd been home at the time ,to demostrate the 32sp on their persons.
...............Mutt......

smokenrust · Post by **smokenrust** » Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:34 am

Stan, "They grouped about 3/4" apart and an inch higher than the Federals", Maybe you need to set up at the 150 yard range line and see how she will talk to you then. Love them old 32 Winchester Specials

RIHMFIRE · Post by **RIHMFIRE** » Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:18 pm

Well Stan....ya did it...
I am gonna have to pull the ole 32 WS off the rack
a shoot it some more....but first i need to reload some...
Thanks....

Stan in SC · Post by **Stan in SC** » Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:06 pm

RIHMFIRE,I am looking forward to your range post.

Stan in SC

Stan in SC · Post by **Stan in SC** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:23 pm

I'm resurrecting a months old post here.The continuing story of my Model 94 in .32 Win Special.
This morning I went to the range at my gun club and fired seven rounds at 100 yards and as usual was rewarded with an excellent group.
Later I took the rifle deer hunting to my favorite piece of property.No,I didn't kill anything but it did feel good to sit there in the stand with an iron sighted lever gun.
The saga will continue.

Stan in SC

EdinCT · Post by **EdinCT** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:55 am

Jdad that rifle is almost to pretty to hunt, I said almost. I have used the 32 with 32 grains of 30-31 or 35.5 grains of 748 under a 170 gr hornady for my foul weather gun for a long time and it has worked very well.
I remember one buck crossing a logging trail about 45 yards that I lunged and when I went up there to start trailing there was lung tissue 15 feet up the trail on the exit side. Yes it was a short trail.
My eyes are not what they were but this summer of the bench in the sunlight I shot a 1" group at 75 yards. To bad its not always sunny in the woods.
Also I have witnessed both the 30wcf and 32 special kill and I know the 32 cuts trailing down by at least 1-3 feet.
Ed

southfork · Post by **southfork** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:00 pm

One to three feet less trailing, huh? In my experience it's at least twice that, ha!

cpt Dan Blodgett · Post by **cpt Dan Blodgett** » Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:21 am

Dad's old 32 special 26 inch Octo Barrel 1907 as I remember will still shoot 4 Inches with my 61 yo eyes at 200.

If you look with equal bullet weights the 32 special is 100 FPS or so faster than the 30/30.

Really funny the performance difference is the same as 308 vs 3006.
32 special is considered essentially the same as a 30-30 but the 3006 has far superior ballistics compared to its red headed step child the .308

As a kid I ate 8 or 9 elk dad shot with a gun not adequate for elk. Good thing the elk in the Bitterroot never read a gun rag.

Dads rifle seems to like leverevalution just fine.

Stan in SC · Post by **Stan in SC** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:07 pm

I ordered some cast bullets for the .32 Win special from Hunter's Supply Co.My jacketed hand loads did so well and I had high hopes for good accuracy results with the cast load.Such was not to be.The load was 29 grains of RL7 under a 170 grain .322 flat nose cast bullet using new brass.At 100 yards the loads were very erratic and ended up all over the 8" shoot-n-see target.Thinking it might be just me having a bad day I immediately shot six rounds consisting of three Federal premium factory loads and three of my jacketed hand loads and got a six shot 2 inch group at 100 yards which is the norm for this rifle.
Conceivably I could try other powders and loads but I choose not to and just stick with what has proven accurate for me.
The saga continues.

Stan in SC

Charles · Post by **Charles** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:35 pm

I enjoy the threads about the 32 WS and the back and forth about it's roots and how it stacks up against the 30-30. I own a 1959 vintage 94 carbine and it is a fine rifle.

This round with it's 1-16 twist barrel is the cast bullet shooters darling. It can shoot cast bullets at full speed with fine accuracy. If I didn't own one I would have to hunt one up.

Stan in SC · Post by **Stan in SC** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:46 pm

Mine is a 1956 vintage.I thought I'd get good accuracy with cast but it didn't happen.

Stan in SC

CalvinMD · Post by **CalvinMD** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:05 pm

Hi Stan....322 sounds like it mite be a touch small for your bore...I'd try seeing if you can find something 323 ...check in with Ranch Dog molds and I'm sure hes got the thing to do the trick

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:01 pm

pic of my 32 WS. Its a 1947 vintage --- its a Gunbroker purchase. First trip to the range i realized it was sighted in just right with factory softpoint ammo at 50 yards --- 3 rounds making a nice, small triangle.
I haven't touched it since , would like to add a tang sight to it soon and try it out at a little longer distance though

pokey · Post by **pokey** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:00 pm

jdad wrote:Winchester did make some very nice rifles chambered in 32 Special.

i like that more each time i see it.

earlmck · Post by **earlmck** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:36 am

Stan in SC wrote:I had high hopes for good accuracy results with the cast load.Such was not to be.The load was 29 grains of RL7 under a 170 grain .322 flat nose cast bullet

Stan, I think you just pushed that poor bullet past what it could stand up to. That load would give you over 2100 fps which is getting real iffy for cast bullet work. Back your charge off to 23 to 25 grains and see if it doesn't settle down considerable. That's assuming it's a gas-check bullet. If it's a plain-base bullet you do need something way different, like maybe 8 to 10 grains of Unique.

earlmck · Post by **earlmck** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:38 am

pokey wrote:
jdad wrote:Winchester did make some very nice rifles chambered in 32 Special.

i like that more each time i see it.

Oh yeah!

Stan in SC · Post by **Stan in SC** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:27 am

earlmck,you bring up a good point that I had not considered before.Thanks for the insight.As I said before I have had such good success with the jacketed load that I do not feel it is worth my while to pursue the cast load.I have too many other things going on.

Stan in SC

Charles · Post by **Charles** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:06 am

Stan...... If you did not get good cast bullet accuracy in that 32WS, it was not the rifle's fault. There is something else wrong. Here is what I do..

1. Make certain the inside of the barrel is 99.9% clean of copper jacketed bullet metal fouling. If you don't do this, you are wasting your time with cast bullets.
2. I use the RCBS 170 FNGC bullets cast from No. 2 alloy.
3. I size .323 and use a high quality lube.
4. The powder charge if 30/H335..If you don't want a load that stout, go to 15/2400
5. I use Remington 9.5 LR primers in all my cast bullet loads, but there is nothing magic about them.

On of the things I like about the 32WS is you can push cast bullets at full factory velocities (2,200 fps) with excellent accuracy. Bear in mind, when you shoot cast bullets at that speed, EVERYTHING (alloy, bullet fit, bullet design and lube) must be right! Errors that would not be noticed 500 fps slower, will show up in spades at 2.2K fps.