OT- Hodgdon Powder

[CEMENTHEAD]

Just putting an ear to the ground.....Is Hodgdon getting ready to unveil a new powder geared towards Levergun cartridges? The name I've seen floating around is "LVR".

Sounds appropriate enough. Just wondering if anyone knows anything else.

Thanks, Tom

[Chuck 100 yd]

This is the first I have heard of it. Thanks for the heads up though. INTERESTING!!

[COSteve]

Deleted

[Rimfire McNutjob]

After all those years of listening to "don't mix powders" we get ... Superformance. A mixture of two powders. I guess it turns out that obtaining the optimal pressure and burn curves can be accomplished by mixing powders.

[TedH]

I wonder if it will be priced in line with their other powders?

[JohndeFresno]

I don't recall where I read it - probably one of my many gun mags - but Hodgdon officially released info that this is the same powder used in their LeverEvolution ammunition; thus the blended powder. So it looks like you can purchase the Hornady polymer tipped bullets and their powder, now; and duplicate their successfully marketed load.

I'm amazed that they have done this when they had the goose that lays the golden egg, as far as some folks think. Maybe because of the tightening economy, and because folks just don't want to part with that much money for loaded ammo.

Incidentally - this is somewhat OT but it falls under the category of "Hodgdon Powder" - this is from the Hodgdon site under Press Releases:

Email: chris@hodgdon.com
CORRECTION TO THE 2010 HODGDON ANNUAL MANUAL
Hodgdon Powder Company – the Gunpowder People, regret that an error occurred in printing of the 2010 version of the Hodgdon Annual Manual. Pages 108 and 109 in the manual appear in reverse order.Contact Hodgdon Powder Company (help@hodgdon.com) for a free reprint of pages 108-109. Do not use the 7mm caliber data as it appears in the 2010 Hodgdon Annual Manual until the corrected copy is received.

[Old Ironsights]

After all those years of listening to "don't mix powders" we get ... Superformance. A mixture of two powders. I guess it turns out that obtaining the optimal pressure and burn curves can be accomplished by mixing powders.

Well... when an individual can mix powders to the same absolute ratios an OEM company can... THEN I suppose it will be safe for Joe Average to try...

[gunner69]

Now that is interesting. I like, and use, a lot of Hodgdon powders and like em all. I guess that marketing these "golden egg" powders will boost powder sales in time of tribulation.

[AJMD429]

Well... when an individual can mix powders to the same absolute ratios an OEM company can... THEN I suppose it will be safe for Joe Average to try...

One thing I'll bet they do with every production lot, that Joe Average can't do, is some final pressure-curve testing of some sort, which could even making adjustments to the mix before release.

So, I'll stick to buying the commercial powders, and let them do any mixing involved.

[JohndeFresno]

For those who must use all copper hunting bullets, I am wondering how the LeverEvolution powder, formulated for a 160 grain 30-30 bullet, will fare with the SOMEWHAT ballistically similar Barnes 150 grainer.

It might prove to give that round a modest velocity boost at safe pressures, in the correct load combination. It will be interesting to see what transpires in the near future.

[piller]

I agree with most of the group. Let the companies do the pressure testing. I don't have the equipment, time, or spare money to do it myself. My experimenting stays within published limits and is in the effort for better accuracy rather than better velocity. That said, I do admit to pushing my .480 out of my Ruger SRH right up to the maximum most of the time. I get better accuracy out of it at the higher velocities for the first 24 to 30 rounds. After that my hand usually wants to go back to a .22lr for a while.

I do wonder if the new Leverevolution powder will give any more velocity out of normal length cases with a 170 grain bullet. If the pressure stays within SAAMI, could it give any more velocity? Would, say for theoretical purposes, 200 fps muzzle velocity increase translate into anything noticeable at 150 yards?

[HEAD0001]

I wonder who is making it?? And I wonder where it is being made?? I think one of them is for the 204 Ruger shooters so they can get the "Holy Grail" velocity of 4,000 fps. Tom.

[w30wcf]

Please note: THESE POWDERS ARE NOT A MIX OF TWO DIFFERENT POWDERS.
THey are a new super family of spherical powders, having new cut sizes, new chemistry, and are double based.
THey have progressive burning qualities that allow them to produce higher velocities and more rounded pressure curves.

w30wcf

[JohndeFresno]

Please note: THESE POWDERS ARE NOT A MIX OF TWO DIFFERENT POWDERS.

I'm glad to know that. The first thing that came to mind was: Given how substances of two different sizes will separate and settle, how do I know that there is an even blend in the container? I agree with w30wcf; I will wait until Barnes experiments with the powder and sets some guidelines before I load with it.

[Griff]

Would, say for theoretical purposes, 200 fps muzzle velocity increase translate into anything noticeable at 150 yards?

Lee shooter tells me that a 200 fps increase from 2200 fps with a Sierra 150 .30-30 to 2400 fps will result in more than an 1-½" less bullet drop at 200yrds. In hard numbers, it is states that the 2400 fps load will drop 8.21" whereas the 2200 fps load will drop 9.95".

Whether that is significant depends on the shooter and his circumstances.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

Please note: THESE POWDERS ARE NOT A MIX OF TWO DIFFERENT POWDERS.
THey are a new super family of spherical powders, having new cut sizes, new chemistry, and are double based.
THey have progressive burning qualities that allow them to produce higher velocities and more rounded pressure curves.

w30wcf

I have no idea about the Leverevolution powder, but I read that Superformance specifically was a mix. There was an article on it a while back. I will have to go find it.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

Here's why I said the powder was a blend of two powders ...

"Using advancement in propellant chemistry and mechanical processing that migrated out of LeverEvolution and the Ruger Compact Magnums, Hornady developed custom blends** of two propellants that fill, without compressing, cases, and use less propellent than comparable loads. And the best part is that Superformance typically achieves 100 to 150 f.p.s. higher velocities than SAAMI standards in all cartridges, bullet weights and types, without exceeding listed MAPs.

... blah blah blah ...

** Under no circumstances should a handloader attempt to blend propellants. Always follow reloading data from reputable reloading resources exactly."

This was from an article in American Rifleman or American Hunter about the ammunition just prior to when it was introduced. This article was not specifically about the Superformance canister powder that is soon to be available. My assumption is that the Superformance powder coming out is what they used in the Superformance ammunition. That assumption could be wrong of course, but it's certainly confusing if it is wrong. As they are the same name you can probably see why I would assume the new powder is a by-product of the new ammunition line.

What's curious to me is ... how does one produce a custom powder blend to operate optimally in various cartridges yet come out with a single powder for the canister market. I would have thought that each cartridge would require a specific blend for that cartridge with some assumption about average barrel length.

I think that the other question is ... how do you have a blended powder and not worry about each powder settling differently in the hopper and thereby end up getting variations in the weight of each as one loads the individual cartridges. I assume the answer to that question is that each powder in the blend is weighed / dropped separately for each cartridge. I can certainly see how the handloader could reliably blend in that case ... versus mixing the powders prior to putting them in the hopper.

Anyhow, my assumption that the Superformance powder to be offered in 2011 is that which is used in the Superformance ammunition could be wrong. It could simply be a marketing ploy to give the handloading public the impression that they were being given access to the magic dust being used in the commercial ammunition and thus equal footing to what the factory can do.

And no, I have not and do not anticipate blending any powder in any of my loads. I'm just trying to shine some light on this Superformance product.

[Kansas Ed]

Per Bruce Hodgdon, in Ackley's "Handbook for Shooters and Reloaders - Vol 1", pg. 524: "Surplus, salvage, experimental lots, and end of run lots have been purchased by B.E. Hodgdon, Inc. and resold to the handloading trade. By screening and blending, the burning rate of any given number of powder has been kept within normal tolerances."

In a previous paragraph, he implies that Olin supplied large quantities of rifle powder to the US Ord. dept. He also implies that this is where they got a lot of their powder...surplus from Olin.

Also note that until Hodgdon bought out Olin and IMR, they purportedly did not manufacture any powder themselves.

So, Hodgdon has from the beginning blended others powders and sold them as their own label.

Ed

[Arminius]

I can´t speak about powder mixing - I have no experience there.

But about that "improved ballistics Hornady ammo"

From what I´ve read, the bullet´s "aren´t that great".

Or, to put it differently, Hornady recognised, that there might be people interested in more power from LAs, without plastic tipped bullets, e.g. LEAD bullets.

So, to earn money on that market, too, they decided to sell "the" ( or "one"? ) powder to the reloading public.

Not sure, just my ideas, Hermann

[Rimfire McNutjob]

... So, Hodgdon has from the beginning blended others powders and sold them as their own label.

As I understand it, the powder manufacturers will hold back a percentage of prior lots of the same power for use in blending with future lots. This is an effort to obtain consistency for users of their powders. Some lots being slightly faster or slower than previous lots, this blending helps bring things back into line.

However, the article I quote states that two different powders are blended ... not portions of two lots of the same powder.

[457121]

I agree with most of the group. Let the companies do the pressure testing. I don't have the equipment, time, or spare money to do it myself.

i agree, and i don't have any spare fingers or eyes either.

[wilko]

And it is here!! LVR powder will drive a 150 grain to 2500 with pretty decent pressure.. Gonna give it a shot when it comes out and see if accuracy is there.

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

[CEMENTHEAD]

Looks promising....especially in 35 Remington/200 grain JRN combo! WooHoo!


Thanks, Tom

[TedH]

I'm having visions of 2650-2700 fps with my Marlin 30TK 30-30AI.