Gunsmiths to remove tang safety and rebounding hammer

[dogwood2]

I have read of some of you removing the tang safety and rebounding hammer from your recently manufactured Winchesters. I am considering the same operation on a couple of rifles. (I have had occasional misfires with one 94, and it seems that the hammer strike is very weak.) Who does that work, what does it cost, and what do you have when they finish? Is it also possible to improve the trigger pull? Thanks for your input.

John M. (Dogwood)

[olyinaz]

I have read of some of you removing the tang safety and rebounding hammer from your recently manufactured Winchesters. I am considering the same operation on a couple of rifles. (I have had occasional misfires with one 94, and it seems that the hammer strike is very weak.) Who does that work, what does it cost, and what do you have when they finish? Is it also possible to improve the trigger pull? Thanks for your input.

While I don't mean to discourage your intent, I've got to say that a 94 - new rebounding design or not - should not be misfiring. That sounds like an issue of a different sort.

Oly

[Hobie]

An improperly "balanced" rebounding hammer system can easily be subject to repetitive misfires. But that isn't really Dogwood's question. First, most all gunsmiths won't touch this work because of liability concerns. Second, you have to have the correct parts (or fabricate them driving up cost). The good side is that it is so easy that you can do it yourself.

[J Miller]

Sorry Oly, it's the rebounding hammer and it's multitude of parts causing the trouble.

John,

With a very few exceptions you'll not find a gunsmith that will remove or deactivate a factory safety gadget. They are liability paranoid.
You can do it yourself a lot cheaper. All you need is a good set of gunsmith screw drivers so you don't marr up the screws, and some patience. There are a number of links on our home page and in the One Sticky at the top of the index page to help.

What I suggest first though is a simple disassemble and polish of everything that touches anything in the lower tang and breach bolt.
Especially the main spring strut where the spring rides and the two prongs that work against the hammer. The strut is a stamped part and usually rough as can be. Anything that's rough, sharp, jagged, or crooked will slow down that hammer and contribute to miss fires.
If your 94 is a late version the factory went to a MIM casting hammer. The sides of those where it's in the lower tang needs to be polished.

Take the bolt out, and check the firing pin and it's hole for debris, gunk, junk, and burrs. Clean and polish as needed.

Try that first. If that don't fix the problem, then we go from there.

Joe

[olyinaz]

An improperly "balanced" rebounding hammer system can easily be subject to repetitive misfires. But that isn't really Dogwood's question.

and

Sorry Oly, it's the rebounding hammer and it's multitude of parts causing the trouble.

Understand and thanks for answering his question (I didn't have an answer for that and I should have said so) but I guess what I meant to convey is that if the main reason he is starting down this path is because he's having misfires, that is an incorrect situation for his rifle which can be corrected and it's certainly work a gunsmith would be happy to tackle. In other words, food for thought.

I violated the "you didn't answer his question" rule and I should have added more - sorry.

Oly

[Hobie]

There's no rule, just my comment. I don't think the Winchester rebounding hammer actions are correct except by chance. I'd change mine out if I was so unfortunate to have acquired one.

[dogwood2]

Thanks for the replies. I have 2 Trails End Hunters I bought on a whim sight unseen. One 38-55 and one 25-35. They are both very accurate leverguns and fun to load for and shoot even if the quality is not what it once was. The latter one has misfired on occasion. Thanks again for the information and advice. I will look into doing the surgery myself.

John

[TomD]

I'm mostly joking, but I love working on guns, and yet I hate that the guns need basic work out of the box. On the one side they are making me happy by making the guns a virtual kid build, on the other it sucks they don't care more.

[RDB]

I am a working pistolsmith and posted my thoughts and someone else's comments on removing the rebounding hamemr and tang safety here:

http://winchester1886.blogspot.com/

Turnbull Restoration among others offer the service.

If you decide to do it yourself, it is fairly easy and I would encourage you to do so. If you have any questions, just send me an email through the blog. Happy to walk you through it and the several ways to accomplish it. (which hammer to use and why) And yes the trigger pull will be greatly improved. My new 1886 is now has a crisp 3#.

I am also just now gearing up to make a perfect replacement "plug" for the tang safety slot and a fill piece for the hammer so that you can use the original rebounding hammer (best choice for the conversion) and have JM Browning's full width profile.

[EndGameAK]

I sent my USRAC/ Miroku 1886 EL to Doug Turnbull to be restored to John Browning's design. They did a stellar job. And the formerly despised tang-safety/ rebounding hammer and terrible trigger pull were gone, and now she's got half-cock. ( I also replaced the Williams FoolProof with a Burris FastFire II utilizing Turnbull's skookum mount. My tired old eyes are grateful.) Wasn't cheap, but beautifully executed. It makes a dandy 200+ yard moose rifle for the river country I hunt. The hammer came through color-cased ... beautiful. Before I pass the '86 onto my son, I intend to send it back to Turnbull's to have the receiver, lever and fore end cap also color-cased. Till then she's not a show piece, just a hunting rifle.

[kaschi]

You're lucky that Turnbull did the operation for you. A few years back, I asked them to do the same thing. They said the lawyers would have a fit if it were done. They must have change of heart?

[RDB]

Endgame's rifle came out very nice. I was impressed. So I asked Doug Turnbull a couple of weeks ago what they would charge to modify my 1886.

My question: "Can you quote me on removing the tang safety, reblueing the reciever and case color on hammer, forend end cap and lever?"

Turnbull's reply: "to weld the tang safty in and blue it it MAY show or it may no.
To do the work, diss, weld and polish the area, blue and color case the small parts, and reassemble would run $650."

[EndGameAK]

kaschi ....

Like you, several years ago I called Turnbull Rest. and asked them if they would "restore" my UISRAC/Miroku 86 EL, and was told that their lawyers ruled against it. Last spring I asked a "well connected" acquaintance who he would suggest to convert it. Doug Turnbull was his suggestion. Doug began making conversions on USRAC/Miroku 86's as part of the production of their .475 Turnbull 1886 rifles. So they didn't until recently. And now they do lots of them. Mine was $350 for the removal of the tang-safety, welding and modification of the hammer for half-cock; $150 for trigger work; $100 to replace the feeble fore arm hanger with a stronger part. With shipping, it came to $630. I'm pleased with the work. And the price was fair for a smith at the top of his trade, IMHO. If Browning had offered their run of 1886s in the Extra Light configuration, I would have started there, but they didn't. And I finally have what I wanted.

Don't know if I've loaded these picture right, but here goes.









I didn't have any refinishing done other than whatever they used on the welded up tang. I can't find any hint of the weld. Nice job. I was surprised when the hammer came through color-cased. Beautiful. She's now my favorite moose rifle.

[kaschi]

That really did come out nice!

[buckeyeshooter]

Great looking gun!