Ot- help me decide .41mag or .44 SPL

[336A]

I need some help here fellas'. I'm in the market for a new sixgun but I can't make up my mind between these two great cartridges. I find myself leaning towards one cartridge one day and the other the next. The revolver that I plan on purchasing for either one of these cartridges is the Ruger Black Hawk. If it will help matters I want to say up front that I'm not a handgun hunter. The main purpose for the revolver will be for woods bumming and as a secondary to my rifle while out hunting. I'm well aware of the pros and cons of each cartridge but man this is a tough choice for me. Can anyone here offer any insight or advice why I should choose one over the other?

[Otto]

Wild speculation on my part, but I assume that .41 almost makes handloading mandatory. I have often considered getting one, though. I even had talked to Nate "Kiowa" Jones about converting a Rossi 92 for me, awhile back.

[jkbrea]

With a .44 mag you could still shoot .44 specials and you have the choice of loading the mag rounds if you want. Ammo is also easier to find. Good luck with whatever you choose.

[mran1126]

I would go with the .44 mag. As has been said, you can shoot both cartridges. Super Blackhawk stainless steel. I love mine.

[JohndeFresno]

That's a tough call.

The .44 Special, of course, won't fire .44 Magnum rounds, so you would limit yourself to an excellent target round with good credentials in the power arena. But if you are talking about woods back-up, you might want a little more power.

The .41 Mag was heralded by famed pistolero Bill Jordan (Border Patrol background) and I think Elmer Keith as the ideal police gun. But it never caught on as it should have for a number of reasons (improper ammunition issued by police agencies, it came at a time when wheelguns were being replaced with semi-autos for law enforcemnt use, the .357 stole a lot of its fire, for instance). Various gunwriters equate it as falling between the .357 and .44 Mag in power. But I would surmise that ammunition for this caliber is not nearly as available as for the .44. On the other hand, I recently read that S&W is re-issuing this handgun, so ammunition may become more plentiful again.

For the .41 Magnum, there is (or used to be) a somewhat mild lead load and a hotter jacketed round, giving you some range of use. If you handload, it seems to me that the .41 Mag would work best for your stated preference for plinking and carrying around, and as a backup. You can load either a mild round or a more brisk hunting / camp defense round.

On the other hand, I've never heard of a .44 Special owner who didn't absolutely love his handgun. And it is a more traditional "Old West" load, as well.

If I were in your boots, and did not handload, I would check the local stores to see what type of ammunition is commonly available, and factor that into my decision, since even Internet ammo sales (if they are still allowed in your state by next year) get costly with Hazardous Material and shipping fees.

As stated above, .44 Mag handles the questions of power and ammunition availability, so my vote would be to purchase the .44 Magnum, not the Special, and then you can load both calibers. Ruger Blackhawks handle that caliber quite well.

[Streetstar]

You have posed a very tough question ---- i suppose just saying "Get both?" is not in the cards. If this were my decision to make, i would likely lean toward the oversize .357 (.41 Mag) rather than the mild .44 (compared to magnum loads its mild that is, but handloading brings out more potential in either round) --- plus the Liupseys .44 spl is built on the smaller .357 frame if you want a more compact firearm


I will throw a curveball by you in saying that if I was buying a single action, i might be tempted to buy a classic single action cartridge (.44 SPL all the way) ------ but if my mind were set on a D-A, i would go with the hot rod that was designed around it (SW 57 here we come ! )

I think you will sleep fine with whatever decision you make

[Meeteetse]

If you are considering a .44 mag handgun with the idea of using it with .44 spec., then that is the way to go. If, on the other hand you are buying a .44 special gun then the contest is a draw. Factory ammo for both is sometimes hard to find, but .44 spec. is easier to find because of Cowboy interests. The .41 will always be more powerful in factory loads, but if you reload you can taylor your loads to about any level you want. Personally, I think .41 mag is a dying cartridge and is going to be even harder to find in the future, but that is just me. I still suggest you get a .44 mag of some type and enjoy the best of both power levels.

[2X22]

As the owner of a couple 44 Special Ruger Flattops and a 1/2 dozen or more 44 mag Flattops, I will be throwing my vote toward the 44 special as opposed to a .41...............

2x22

[adirondakjack]

For woods bumming, .44 spl. It'll do just fine, and for those times ya take a shot without ear protection, is far less brutal.

[AJMD429]

When the dust settles, you should ideally have a matched PAIR (SA field handgun and carbine) of whatever cartridge you choose, with the potential for a rifle and DA CCW handgun to be added that are compatible.

If you already have a .41 Magnum levergun, I'd get the .41 Magnum revolver, but otherwise I'd go with the .44 Special so I could eventually have a set of multi-purpose, caliber-compatible, firearms (by adding .44 Magnum and even .444 Marlin guns):

[336A]

For woods bumming, .44 spl. It'll do just fine, and for those times ya take a shot without ear protection, is far less brutal.

adirondakjack that is exactly why I have been thinking so hard on the .44 spl. Also being a handloader if I ever felt the need for more than a 250gr bullet at 950fps I could always use the famous Keith load. However I can't think of much that would shrug off a good hit from a .44 spl using the Skeeter load. At this point I do believe I will be getting one of the new Ruger .44 specials.

[Hobie]

I have 'em both. I don't see any practical reason to choose one or the other except that there is more .44 Special stuff out there than .41 Mag stuff. IOW, it is all personal preference.

[RIHMFIRE]

buy a 44 mag

[L_Kilkenny]

For woods bumming, .44 spl. It'll do just fine, and for those times ya take a shot without ear protection, is far less brutal.

That's a great point right there. I never would of thought about that in my decision making process.

Question: How's the muzzle blast of the .44special and .45 colt (standard loads) as compared with a medium to stout 158gr .357 load?

LK

[JohndeFresno]

How's the muzzle blast of the .44special and .45 colt (standard loads) as compared with a medium to stout 158gr .357 load?
LK

A large bore is much easier on your ears - described by many as a "boom" instead of painful "crack." I was in a situation where I fired several .357 rounds without ear protection, and after all was said and done I had trouble hearing certain levels and everybody sounded like they were lisping for over a week. I discoverd that there was some damage to my hearing after that. That was the day that I put my beautiful 6" Python in the lockbox and started carrying a .45 ACP.

The sound barrier is about 1050 fps, depending upon your altitude; .357 loads are above that.

Per one source, http://www.freehearingtest.com/hia_gunfirenoise.shtml , some selected "standard" handgun decibel levels are found to be:
.25 ACP / 155.0 dB
.32 LONG / 152.4 dB
.32 ACP / 153.5 dB
.380 / 157.7 dB
9mm / 159.8 dB
.38 S&W / 153.5 dB
.38 Spl / 156.3 dB
.357 Magnum /164.3 dB
.41 Magnum / 163.2 dB
.44 Spl / 155.9 dB
.45 ACP / 157.0 dB
.45 COLT 154.7 dB

You can see that the big bores are approximately the same as pipsqueak calibers. Add to this the much higher frequency of the .357's blast, due to its higher velocity, and the sonic boom - and you have reason to consider a large bore for any unprotected shooting situations.

One source that I have run across (and admittedly not confirmed) states that each 3 decibels of sound increase actually doubles the volume. I'm not sure about that one; I'll leave it for the many engineers on this site; but I can state definitely as a long-time shooter of both the .357 and the .45 ACP, and as a shooter of these calibers with unprotected years in my younger days - that there is a dramatic difference between the two.

It took only one incident when I was shooting from a semi-enclosed area with the .357 (alluded to above) that convinced me that the .357, wonderful stopper that it is, is a bad choice for quick defense situations, like in a densely wooded area or firing from within a building or home. You can't hear anybody talking to you, for a while as your ears are roaring like the ocean, unless they are right next to you! In my case, I didn't hear the instructions of the Sheriff (the boss) when he arrived and took over the scene. He thought that I was ignoring him. I had been firing the 110 grain Super Vel rounds.

[madman4570]

Get the .44Mag
Get a Ruger Super Blackhawk "Hunter" and you will like it enough you will become a handgun hunter.
remember that .44mag shoots .44 SPL as well! Why limit your options!
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/LargeIma ... ?sku=70661

Also this gun will easily handle the Buffalo Bore Heavy .44 Magnum +P+ Ammo - 340 gr. L.F.N. - G.C. (1,478 fps/M.E. 1,649 ft. lbs.) stuff,so if ever inclined in the future you can hunt "anything" of Big Game in North America with it.

Can go anywhere from a .44SPL up to basically a very close .454 Casull in sheeps clothing.(Now that's real versatility)
Also if you wish to be more frugal price wise then just get the plain .44mag Super BlackHawk! That will do the same. Kittery Trading Post has a 90% condition one that will go for $300

[Rusty]

I Got rid of my .41 in 1979 and never looked back. The .44 will do everything the .41 will do and more because as Hobie stated there's more stuff out there for the .44. that is exactly why I got rid of my .41 back then and things haven't gotten any better. Sure there is more stuff out there for the .41 now, but there is also more for the .44 as well.

[adirondakjack]

A .44 spl or .45 colt loaded with 240-250 grain bullets running say 850 -950 fps is far, far gentler than the .357, .41 or .44 mag in part because of the pressures involved. High pressures mean exactly that, very high velocity gasses escaping the revolver out the muzzle and (maybe even worse) the BC gap. That's where yer wicked "crack" comes from that HURTS. I wouldn't recommend shooting .44 specials routinely without ear protection, but I would and I have taken a shot or two with far, far less discomfort than a .357 or .44 manglem. As above, more the shoving "boom" of thunder off on the distance compared to a "crack" of thunder right over yer head.....

[wm]

IMO a lot depends on what you are going to do, how you intend to do it, and what platform you are going to shoot it from.

I would say the 41 mag is going to require handloading.....but so will the 44 spl unless your pockets are deep or you are willing to settle for the weak facory offerings commonly found.

Rugers are probably the best big bore handgun for the price offered and can be easily found in both 44 spl (& 44 mag) and 41 mag. If you are looking for something a bit more refined USFA is now offering both the 41 mag and 44 spl. Before I lost my job a 44spl USFA was high on my list of wants.

As for performance.......well I don't want to step on anyones toes, or gore anyones bull. In my experience they are equally as accurate (assuming they are fired from similarly well made firearms) and I doubt any game animal hit by similar sized & speeding projectiles would know the difference.

In other words there is no bad choice here....I personally have both (Ruger OMBH in 41 mag w 6.5" barrel & a Ruger NMSBH in 44mag w/ 4 &5/8" barrel & a Charter Arms in 44 spl). The 41 mag has harvested a couple of hogs and goats, the 44 mag goes berry picking with me when we go into black bear country, and the Charter protects me when I am running abouot town.

That was probably not much help in making up your mind.....but I think you asked a question that is without a definitive answer.

Wm

P.S. A 41 mag from USFA is certainly going to be a rare item and has coolness to it wouold be unlike any other hand gun.

[Blaine]

I have .44 Mags, but I suspect that a Special would do most people, unless you shoot good enough to take advantage of it's 100+ yard range. A 240 grain @ 900fps will hammer about anything you need to hammer at under fifty - 75 yards or more.

[buckeyeshooter]

another 44 magnum picker--- you can shoot specials or load to special speed if you want. There are few factory loads in 44 special--- tons in 44 mag.

[tman]

.357/.38 special . cheapest to shoot. available anywhere. enough factory stuff that you don't need to reload. the .357 is a PROVEN manstopper. it has also harvested all animals on this planet at least once. anything else in a HANDGUN is overkill. just my peabrain 2 cents worth.

[adirondakjack]

I am not sure if he is talking about a Big frame Ruger BH like the .45 Colt or .44 mag, or that small frame one. I have heard there is a run of .44 special small frame guns (like the .357 anniversary model) around. if the small frame is the one being considered, that's a whole different critter to pack than the big hogleg.

[2X22]

I have heard there is a run of .44 special small frame guns (like the .357 anniversary model) around. if the small frame is the one being considered, that's a whole different critter to pack than the big hogleg.

Yep, I have a few of 'em. Wonderfully packin' deep woods piece! I load 255's to 900-950fps and that can handle everything I run across with the exception of big bull elk. Low sound (as has beem mentioned), wonderfully accurate and very powerful for my needs.

2x22

[AJMD429]

A large bore is much easier on your ears - described by many as a "boom" instead of painful "crack."

THAT is why I've not rushed to find the first .327 FedMag levergun, let alone revolver - I figure it will eclipse the .30 Carbine Ruger Blackhawk I once shot with BOTH plugs and muffs, and after six shots STILL had ringing ears for two days...

One source that I have run across (and admittedly not confirmed) states that each 3 decibels of sound increase actually doubles the volume.

A 'bell' I think is a ten-fold increase in sound, so doing a tenth of that three times incrementally might do that, given the logarithmic scale and so on...

Engineers welcome to correct me or explain it in American-talk or English...

[Otto]

One source that I have run across (and admittedly not confirmed) states that each 3 decibels of sound increase actually doubles the volume.

A 'bell' I think is a ten-fold increase in sound, so doing a tenth of that three times incrementally might do that, given the logarithmic scale and so on...

Engineers welcome to correct me or explain it in American-talk or English...

In this context, an increase of 3 decibels would result in a doubling of the perceived volume. A single decibel increase results in a perceived increase of approximately 26 percent. In other words, 1dB "equals" a factor of 1.26, while 2dB corresponds to 1.26x1.26. A 10dB increase corresponds to 1.26 to the 10th power, or 10.

The reason a 2dB increase in power output does not produce a twofold increase in volume, is that power is being dispersed three-dimensionally.

This is an overly simplistic explanation, and so is not strictly correct, but it illustrates how dB relate to perceived increases.

[JB]

I'll jump on the 44 magnum band wagon.

[adirondakjack]

One source that I have run across (and admittedly not confirmed) states that each 3 decibels of sound increase actually doubles the volume.

A 'bell' I think is a ten-fold increase in sound, so doing a tenth of that three times incrementally might do that, given the logarithmic scale and so on...

Engineers welcome to correct me or explain it in American-talk or English...

In this context, an increase of 3 decibels would result in a doubling of the perceived volume. A single decibel increase results in a perceived increase of approximately 26 percent. In other words, 1dB "equals" a factor of 1.26, while 2dB corresponds to 1.26x1.26. A 10dB increase corresponds to 1.26 to the 10th power, or 10.


The reason a 2dB increase in power output does not produce a twofold increase in volume, is that power is being dispersed three-dimensionally.

This is an overly simplistic explanation, and so is not strictly correct, but it illustrates how dB relate to perceived increases.

All this is true, AND a higher pressure means ya move UP in pitch,, which is rougher on the ears, even if db is the same.
Trust me, I worked on jet engines, and around plenty of airplanes taking off. Inlet noise is MUCH worse (scream), than exhaust (roar), yet db are very similar. The worst pounding I ever took from a gun was a single round of 125 gr jhp fired from a 4" .357 standing next to an open car door in a very quiet forest with no ear protection. I'd rather empty a magazine of super X super Pheasant 12 ga any day.....

[336A]

I am not sure if he is talking about a Big frame Ruger BH like the .45 Colt or .44 mag, or that small frame one. I have heard there is a run of .44 special small frame guns (like the .357 anniversary model) around. if the small frame is the one being considered, that's a whole different critter to pack than the big hogleg.

You are correct, I'm talking about the .44 SPL that is built on the medium frame Black Hawk and is now a regular catalouge item by Ruger.

[bsaride]

Not gonna read every ones posts.

Just gonna say that a short barreled 44 Special has been my preference as a trail/camp
sidearm (as long as you aren't in big bear country) ever since i got my first one.

[adirondakjack]

I am not sure if he is talking about a Big frame Ruger BH like the .45 Colt or .44 mag, or that small frame one. I have heard there is a run of .44 special small frame guns (like the .357 anniversary model) around. if the small frame is the one being considered, that's a whole different critter to pack than the big hogleg.

You are correct, I'm talking about the .44 SPL that is built on the medium frame Black Hawk and is now a regular catalouge item by Ruger.

I purely love my (big) BH and vaqueros in .45 Colt, and haven't owned a .44 special since I foolishly let my S&W 696 get away, but I'd really like one of the new "original-sized" BHs in .44 spl. myself.

[3leggedturtle]

44 Special; a 240-260 SWC at 850-950fps will handle anything you could possibly face and not blow out your eardrums, during the process

[missionary5155]

Greetings
I can down load my 41´s to do anything a 44 Special can. I seriosusly dought you can get a 265 grainer going near 1500 fps (8" dan Wesson) in a 44 (Actualy a .43) Special.

[Idahoser]

Another thing you might consider is what drove me to .44 instead of .45 Colt, namely "it's the only gun you have, you're out of town and you just realized you didn't bring any ammo. Gotta buy factory"

You may not find any .41 for any price. You WILL find .44 Mag, you might find reasonable .44 Spl. You may find .45 Colt but it's going to be cowboy poof's.

If the ones I'm considering will all get the job done with reloads, but I have to consider the above scenario, I'll take the one I can feed.

A .41 should not ever be your 'only' caliber, get that if you want it AFTER you have a common cal.

I've also become very fond of the 'big & slow' cals, .45, .44Spl for the flash & blast you DON'T get as compared to Mags. .357 is like getting slapped in the face, that blast.

I do like having the built in capacity to use Mags even if I don't often. Somebody mentioned 'the Keith load', I'm sure the Ruger will have no trouble but there are Spl's that would not be happy with hot rod loads. A Magnum wouldn't balk at any Spl load.

[stretch]

What a decision!

I already have, and am a big fan of, the 41 Magnum.
I also shoot 44 Spcl in a 44 magnum, and came within
a whisker of buying a nickel-plated S&W "Classic" in 44 spl
on this board. Fortunately for my wallet, somebody else
was quicker!

The 44 spcl is an excellent round for social work, and will
also work for short-range hand gun hunting on whitetail
and such.

The 41 Magnum can be loaded down for plinking and social work, and up
to silly levels for anyting else in North America. See Paco' articles
on this site. 7 gr. of WW231 pushing a 215 LSWC is an excellent plinking
and self-defense load. It can be loaded for under $10 a box.

If you buy a 41 Mag, you're gonna reload. Factory ammunition, when
available locally, is just too expensive. 44 Special is not so common anymore,
but it is more plentiful than 41 Magnum and it isn't as pricey.

The big Rugers will handle any published loads in either caliber. The 44
will suffice for woods bummin' and finishing shots, but as a real backup
for a rifle, the 41 Magnum would be superior.

Tough choice! My vote goes to the 41 if you don't yet have one,
followed by the 44. I'm a fan of both calibers, and in reality, I'd
be happy with either. Good Luck, and let us know what you
finally actually get.

-Stretch