Hot Old Caliber Loads Possible?

[COSteve]

What with the low SAAMI spec pressure of the 32-20 (16,000 CUP) 38-40 (14,000 CUP), and 44-40 (13,000 CUP), I was wondering if these cartridges could be reloaded for use in modern clones to higher pressures. I'm thinking in the (30,000 CUP) region of the 32-40 or the 38-55.

Is the brass too thin and/or weak or is it that the loads are down because most of these are shot in original antique weapons? What say you guys who reload for these calibers?

[Buck Elliott]

The brass for those cartridges you mentioned is universally thin, and chambers in most rifles for those cartridges twnd to be somewhat on the "generous" side -- a nod to dirty/corroded/dented ammunition of days gone by. (Never happens in TODAY's world, does it...?)

Yes, you CAN turn a .32-20 into a .327 Marlin, or a .38-40 into a 10mm or a .44 WCF into a .44 Spl +p, but I would not recommend it -- not if you like your old guns.

They really do make leverguns in .357, .41 & .44 Mag, if that's what you think you need.

[O.S.O.K.]

Buck, you dissapoint me - thought you'd at least start with "READ THE BOOK!"

But, I agree with your post - at least about the 38/40 and 44/40. 32-20 and 38-55 are fine to load up some in modern guns IMHO. Just clearly mark the cartridge boxes with HOT LOADS NOT FOR OLDER GUNS" or something...

[Buck Elliott]

Buck, you dissapoint me - thought you'd at least start with "READ THE BOOK!"

But, I agree with your post.

Gave up on the "READ THE BOOK" thing -- at least temporarily. Found it to be an unwelcome response among the instant-gratification crowd.

No offense meant.

[O.S.O.K.]

Its not that Buck, its the insinuation that we are f***g stupid. At least that's the way it comes over.

It's kinda like seeing somebody with a knife and telling them imediately to cut away from themselves....

That's fine for the new boy scouts just getting their totin chip but not for members her IMHO.

[Don McDowell]

Well I suppose you could juice em up a bit in modern guns , but the better question would be why?
They worked just fine and earned the reputation that's kept them around for 130 someodd years in the boring old "lowpressure" they were born with.
If you shoot those cartridges loaded to the way they were first built, as apposed to what the CAS crowd has done to them it doesn't take long to figure out why they were so popular back in the day.

[Otto]

When you say, "read the book," are you speaking figuratively, or is there a particular book you have been recommending?

[Buck Elliott]

Its not that Buck, its the insinuation that we are f***g stupid. At least that's the way it comes over.

It's kinda like seeing somebody with a knife and telling them imediately to cut away from themselves....

That's fine for the new boy scouts just getting their totin chip but not for members her IMHO.

Not stupid --- just ignorant, maybe.

If I see a guy with a knife in his hand, who doesn't look or act like he knows which end is the sharp one, I'll say something.

Whether or not you get offended at that is up to you...

[Griff]

O.S.O.K.,

Many times the query comes across as being somewhat naive or as if the person is un-informed, and references to various books are warranted. I don't suspect this is the case with COSteve, hence... I suspect, Buck's concise answer.

Steve,

The .32-20 was also available in a HV (high velocity) form for use in Winchester 92s and modern arms... Colt SAAs and other revolvers of the period specifically excepted. So yes, you can hot-rod the .32-20 with some limits quite safely. Same goes for the rest of these old BP rounds. I think that with nickel steel barrels and action designs of sufficient strength as to be appropriate for modern ammunition, loads can be upped in these rounds, as well as the .32-40 above those normally recommended, and to what levels factory ammo is loaded.

Just as the .38-40, .44-40 & .45Colt can be hot-rodded in modern arms, but care must be taken to ensure their condition and design strength of the action. Whereas the 1892 Winchester or 1894 Marlin in either .38-40 or .44-40 could be run hotter than Colt SAAs, I would be very leery of using such loads in '66 or '73 Winchesters, replica or not.

[BenT]

I've tried Ken Water's higher end loads in my modern 38-55 . The biggest problem that I have with the higher velocity load is that it shoots MOA . So I wasn't really planning on feeding it a diet of higher end loads , I need to find a medium velocity load that shoots as good.

I also tried Brian Pierce's hotter loads for 32-20 in my Marlin 94. They shot O.K. I'm looking for accuracy the most. But these are loads that feel are coming from good sources.

[O.S.O.K.]

O.S.O.K.,

Many times the query comes across as being somewhat naive or as if the person is un-informed, and references to various books are warranted. I don't suspect this is the case with COSteve, hence... I suspect, Buck's concise answer.

Well, that's not much better as you are basically saying that he then had the opinion that I was naive or stupid or ignorant.

And given his last reply, it's now certain - ignorant. That is, I was without knowledge. He was and is mistaken I assure you.

I was asking in my thread where this came up if anyone had a particular load to recomend and he assumed (you know what they say about that) that I was ignorant.

That's right out of the Dale Carnegie class I think...

Whatever - sorry to polute your thread Steve.

[Gun Smith]

The only word of caution is be sure to use modern brass. There is still brass around with the old balloon head case. ONLY use LIGHT loads in this style of brass, or throw it away. And as others said don't hot rod M.73's.
The M.92 action is quite strong. I seem to remember over 40,000 PSI working pressure in the old books. The 218 Bee runs 38,000 + - in reloading books.

[AmBraCol]

Years ago a friend had a CBC single shot that was built like a bank vault. It was built on a 12 gauge frame and chambered for the 32-20. He started handloading for it. I've NO idea what pressures he was hitting but am sure it was WAY over SAAMI specs. The brass held up OK. He got some amazing penetration with the loads he cooked up. Your mileage may vary. Don't try this at home. Etc. etc.

[AJMD429]

Some of the older rounds sure had case-volume going for them!

I suppose the only way I'd be tempted to do it would be to chamber a modern gun for a "Ackley Improved" version of the case, set up so it could NOT enter the chamber of a classic/fragile gun. That would be hard to do with the straight or only minimally bottlenecked rounds, though.

The guys above are right, though - better to just find a modern cartridge to suit your needs; there's plenty!

[COSteve]

Thanks for all the replies; some were quite interesting.

Yes, I've read everything I could find, I was just interested in the board's personal experiences. I thought about even posting because I knew that all the cases were thin and thought that likely one couldn't safely, however, I thought it was no harm to ask. . . . . . . . . . . . however, now I'm not so sure it was.

[Don McDowell]

The real sleeper of the bunch is the 38-40, when its cranked up to full saami spec its a pretty lively round from a handgun. Makes it pretty easy to see why Skeeter Skelton harumphed there wasn't any need for the hot new 10mm there already was a round that would do that....

[Old Savage]

Depends on what book you read but I generally let cartridges be what they are. With the exception of the 45 Colt in Ruger and 92s and the 7x57 in my Ruger.