Kind of OT - A beautiful Parker shotgun (UPDATE)

[jdad]

I love looking at real vintage craftsmanship. I have no interest in shotguns other than the skill and attention to detail that the true classics had. I am always in awe, of the talent that master gunsmiths have. My skills end, at fitting & finishing buttstocks.

If you read the factory letter you will see that even the butttplate is original.
http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displ ... &oh=216543


Listing description added. "John in MS" I would be interested to see your feedback on it.

[mescalero1]

If it were mine I would be afraid to take it out.
I barely will shoot my L.C. Smith.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

Beautiful ... funky pad though. What do you think it will close at? $11k?

[jdad]

Beautiful ... funky pad though. What do you think it will close at? $11k?

I know as much about shotguns as I do 1911's...............absolutely nothing. What amazed me was the cost of the ejectors, in the early 1900's....$18.75. That almost increased the cost of the rifle by 20%.

[Mike D.]

I am not a fan of Parker shotguns, but am keeping an eye on that beauty. If it appears to close at anything beyond the ridiculous, I will bid on it. Hunt it? You bet I would. I don't own a gun that won't shoot, let alone carry in the woods and fields. A $10K Winchester, or a $500 Marlin, same thing, just another tool meant to be utilized.

[pokey]

130.00 in 1919.

that was a spendy gun even then.

hunt it, you bet.

looks like she's been sitting in a rack too long already.

[2X22]

Hmm. I have one that looks exactly like that one, except in 16 gauge on a 20 gauge frame.

I hunt the snot out of it!

2x22

[John in MS]

Funny that he doesn't give any description of the gun in his ad! For those who haven't studied Parkers, that is a D-grade gun on a #2 frame -- the heavy 12 ga. frame. I have handled a Parker 12 ga 32" bbls on a 2 frame, and they are pretty hefty -- not a light bird gun, more of a duck gun. Other frames are 1 & 1/2 (desirable, lighter weight, smaller dimensions) and even #1 frame (very desirable, it is the heavy 20 ga frame and normal 16 ga frame.) I have also handled a special-order Parker with factory 26" barrels on a #1 frame and it was very quick and lively, weighing only 6 & 3/4 lbs.

The barrels that are mounted on the gun show special-order ivory bead sights of the period, which IIRC was a $1.50 option. They could have been installed after the gun left the factory, or on a return trip (such as to have the single trigger installed). Re: the spare set of barrels, they appear very likely to have been cut. Look at how the wavy matting runs right off the end of the rib, and at the relatively rough treatment of the gaps between the ribs at the muzzle, as compared to the set mounted on the gun. If cut, that seriously hurts the value of that spare set of barrels. Anyone considering bidding on this gun should get a confirmation from the seller as to the lengths of both sets of barrels. If 1 was cut, the length may confirm that, if it is not correct for a Parker.

Still, it's a very nice piece!! I used to dabble in Parkers as shooters many years ago. After having a lot of trouble with the reliability of an original Parker single trigger, and also having an ejector-hammer break, I came to prefer the simplest configuration: double triggers and extractors, for their reliability. That's not to say that ejectors have to be prone to trouble -- I extensively shot a mechanically-as-new Parker with ejectors for years and never had a moment's trouble. The problem with the special features nowadays is that, if you're going to use the gun, and something DOES go wrong, finding parts and a COMPETENT, RELIABLE gunsmith to fix them is pretty difficult, not to mention expensive.

I shipped the single-trigger Parker to no less than 5 "gunsmiths," a couple of whom were pretty famous, trying to get it fixed, and stressed the need to ENSURE it was right before returning it. I asked them to test-fire it and offered to pay for the shells plus their time. None did. They'd bill me, and send it back, and it would malfunction again, just as before. Shipping it by Registered Mail, very well packed and heavily insured, was not cheap, and neither were their bills for their ineffective work. Finally, I found a smith who did know what he was doing, and got it squared away, but it took several years and a lot of time/effort/expense to get it fixed.

I'm no longer interested in shotguns, and my Parkers have long since gone by the wayside. They are very well-built guns, and even today, can be extremely reliable and capable hunting tools, if not previously beaten to death. Just be aware that repairs can be expensive & difficult, if needed.

Hope this helps,
John

[crs]

To me, a Parker shotgun is never OT.

[jdad]

Funny that he doesn't give any description of the gun in his ad! For those who haven't studied Parkers, that is a D-grade gun on a #2 frame -- the heavy 12 ga. frame. I have handled a Parker 12 ga 32" bbls on a 2 frame, and they are pretty hefty -- not a light bird gun, more of a duck gun. Other frames are 1 & 1/2 (desirable, lighter weight, smaller dimensions) and even #1 frame (very desirable, it is the heavy 20 ga frame and normal 16 ga frame.) I have also handled a special-order Parker with factory 26" barrels on a #1 frame and it was very quick and lively, weighing only 6 & 3/4 lbs.

The barrels that are mounted on the gun show special-order ivory bead sights of the period, which IIRC was a $1.50 option. They could have been installed after the gun left the factory, or on a return trip (such as to have the single trigger installed). Re: the spare set of barrels, they appear very likely to have been cut. Look at how the wavy matting runs right off the end of the rib, and at the relatively rough treatment of the gaps between the ribs at the muzzle, as compared to the set mounted on the gun. If cut, that seriously hurts the value of that spare set of barrels. Anyone considering bidding on this gun should get a confirmation from the seller as to the lengths of both sets of barrels. If 1 was cut, the length may confirm that, if it is not correct for a Parker.

Still, it's a very nice piece!! I used to dabble in Parkers as shooters many years ago. After having a lot of trouble with the reliability of an original Parker single trigger, and also having an ejector-hammer break, I came to prefer the simplest configuration: double triggers and extractors, for their reliability. That's not to say that ejectors have to be prone to trouble -- I extensively shot a mechanically-as-new Parker with ejectors for years and never had a moment's trouble. The problem with the special features nowadays is that, if you're going to use the gun, and something DOES go wrong, finding parts and a COMPETENT, RELIABLE gunsmith to fix them is pretty difficult, not to mention expensive.

I shipped the single-trigger Parker to no less than 5 "gunsmiths," a couple of whom were pretty famous, trying to get it fixed, and stressed the need to ENSURE it was right before returning it. I asked them to test-fire it and offered to pay for the shells plus their time. None did. They'd bill me, and send it back, and it would malfunction again, just as before. Shipping it by Registered Mail, very well packed and heavily insured, was not cheap, and neither were their bills for their ineffective work. Finally, I found a smith who did know what he was doing, and got it squared away, but it took several years and a lot of time/effort/expense to get it fixed.

I'm no longer interested in shotguns, and my Parkers have long since gone by the wayside. They are very well-built guns, and even today, can be extremely reliable and capable hunting tools, if not previously beaten to death. Just be aware that repairs can be expensive & difficult, if needed.

Hope this helps,
John

John,
The "DOG" posts a detailed description within 2-4 days after a firearm has been listed. It takes a whole lot of time just to post photos, of 10-15 rifles. You did read the last two paragraphs, of the factory letter.

[Batman1939]

Seeing this thread reminds me of the time I bumped into a fellow birdhunter in Montana who was using an original Parker double barrel. He said something like: "Life's too short to hunt with anything other than a Parker". In a way his comment seemed a trifle arrogant, I was using a Winchester 101 at the time, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that he was just happy with his Parker. As I recall, though, I had done better than he at actually killing birds that day, but that may have been because my dogs were better than his!!! We're all entitled to our own bias.

[6pt-sika]

I grew up in a household where you started with a single barrel and ELEVATED to a SxS normally a Fox , L.C.Smith or when you got a little lucky a Paker or British gun !

We still have 4 or 5 parkers and a number of British guns . But we've since started with those newer funny looking guns where the barrels are one over top the other

Doesn't matter though been shooting birds , skeet and trap so long if the gun is of a reasonable fit I do pretty well with a SxS O/U or Remington 1100 !

I would think that gun will top out at $3750-4500 .

[rjohns94]

its nice, has been modified, but I would shoot the heck out of it. I sleeved my parker and made it a 20 gauge with skeet chokes and love shooting it in the dove fields or chasing bunnies, bushy tails. I like that one's looks a lot!

[John in MS]

"You did read the last two paragraphs, of the factory letter.
"

Yep, sure did, and there are a lot of things that are not addressed in those paragraphs,
that significantly affect that Parker's value and desirability, relative to others. I shared
information for those who might want a Parker but not have the background information/study to pick out all the relevant details before bidding.

John

[jdad]

"John in MS" check the description. It's been added to the listing. I would be interested to see if you agree with it.

[John in MS]

JDAD,

yes, I'd say he did a very thorough, accurate job -- much better than most descriptions I have seen. From what I can see, the finish on the wood looks original, and finish on the short (cut) barrels does too. Finish on the 32" barrels looks original, but I would like to see them in natural daylight to be sure, as they look to have a little finer polish than on original Parkers. If refinished (which I doubt), it would have been by a top-quality smith who knew exactly what to polish and how, and what to leave alone. Often, on original Parker barrels, you will see some portions of fine lines under the finish near the ribs from when the barrels were struck. Where the barrels curve down to meet the ribs, you may see some fine lines running along the bore's axis if you look carefully. Often, on guns that were professionally refinished with correct rust blue, I've seen where the polisher has removed those lines and the polish is actually finer than factory. Again, from digital pics, this is very hard to tell, but something to be aware of.

Note the buildup of old crud and grease, etc. on the undersides of the barrels around the hook, flats, ejectors, etc. That would suggest that, if it was refinished, it was a long time ago. "30% original receiver case colors" sounds a bit optimistic to me -- I could be wrong, but I personally never counted the case coloring on the receiver water table unless it was very strong. Often, at least some case colors will be found on the water table (receiver flat, hidden under the barrel flat when assembled). In Parkers, remaining percent of case color greatly affects the value, so that's a very important factor, and I personally considered the EXTERNAL case colors to be the primary consideration. (Others may disagree.) On the receiver exterior, there appears to be very little original case color left -- maybe 10%? But again, digital photography and lighting may not allow details to show that would be visible if examining the gun in person.

One thing worth noting is that the gun has been taken apart by someone who was not 100% on his game, as the screws on the underside of the receiver (trigger plate), and even rear trigger guard screw, show signs of having been turned and not replaced correctly. (All screws should line up either parallel or perpendicular to the bore.) If you look at the TOP tang, you will see that the end of the rear tang screw, coming up from underneath, doesn't meet the tang perfectly -- there is a gap -- and this is due to the tang screw's not being properly lined up. That could in part be due to wood dimensions changing with humidity over the many years since the Parker left Meriden, CT. However, attention to detail requires replacing the screws correctly. When worked on by someone like this, one has to wonder what the problem was, and how well, if at all, it was fixed?

Again, I'm being very picky, but when dealing with Parkers, that pays, both in getting as much quality in the gun as you are paying for, and in trying to head off potential mechanical problems by detecting them before purchase, rather than after. One thing that is helpful when examining Parkers in person, but not via internet (obviously) is that the ones I've handled that were in superb mechanical condition with very little wear, had a crisp "ping" when closing the action slowly and letting the top lever return freely to the locked position. As the gun wears, that "ping" gets more and more dull until it just becomes a "clunk", if that makes sense. There are takeup plates to tighten lockup and compensate for wear located on the dolls-head extension and barrel lug, as I recall, but in the hundreds of Parkers I've examined over the years, I don't think I've ever seen one that had actually been adjusted using them.

Like I say, I'm no Parker expert, but have learned a few things by studying them and the various books written about them. (Don't get me started on the errors in Peter H. Johnson's book...) Many people know exponentially more about them than I do, but I'll offer my impressions for what they are worth.

Re: the remark noted about "Life is too short to hunt with anything but a Parker," I can see how that might be interpreted as arrogant, and in fact, depending on the person, it could have been meant that way. However, that was my exact philosophy when I was into shotgunning, and only because I truly loved the Parkers, not because I looked down on anyone else's gun. To me, they are a tangible link to an era when fine craftsmanship was prized, as was giving an honest day's work for an honest day's pay and taking pride in one's work. In 1924, my grandfather purchased a Parker 12 ga. for all his hunting, and so they are the natural "double gun" of choice for me. The way I see it, one only has so many hours afield, and I found my hunting/shooting much enriched by using a gun I loved and considered very special.

Much like our vintage Winchesters and Marlins, they are a link to an era that will never be seen again; just about everyone who ever worked on them at the factory is long dead and gone. All that remains of these fine craftsmen, now, is these ever-dwindling shotguns, and I do enjoy seeing them in the field, doing what they were built to do. In the same way, I love taking a 100 year old Winchester 92 or 94 out hunting, far more than a modern rifle.

Hope this helps, and if anyone has other thoughts on the Parker being advertised, please, by all means, chime in!
John