OT - Single Action Sight Regulation

[Griff]

There's an interesting topic over on the SASS Wire... Point of Aim Vs Point of Impact.

[JerryB]

Griff, that some good stuff, thanks.

[J Miller]

Since I'm not a member there, I'll comment here.

Most of the sight regulation problems I've had with fixed sight SAA revolvers has been elevation related. The front sights were too short making the pistols shoot too high.

With adjustable sight revolvers the problems I've run across is improperly mounted front sights, tilting sights, and too short sights. Most of this with Rugers, but my S&W 25-5 front sight was too short also.
My current OM .357 BH has all these problems at once. The front sight is twisted on the barrel, tilts the left, and is too short ... from the factory. What a mess. Gonna fix that one myself.

I've rarely had a single action or any revolver that shot left or right if the front sight was vertical.

Joe

[Rimfire McNutjob]

Just to be clear, this guy was shooting .45ACP 185-grain truncated cone from an SAA? How does headspacing work on that? Surely he must have had a special .45ACP cylinder for the SAA? I'm not sure I get the point of that unless .45ACP is much cheaper than .45 Long Colt.

[Buck Elliott]

Just to be clear, this guy was shooting .45ACP 185-grain truncated cone from an SAA? How does headspacing work on that? Surely he must have had a special .45ACP cylinder for the SAA? I'm not sure I get the point of that unless .45ACP is much cheaper than .45 Long Colt.

You'd have to be a SASS "Gamer" to get the point, at all...

Lots of those guys have switched to .45 ACP for use with Black Powder, getting less velocity and therefore less recoil than when using full BP loads in the old .45 Colt case.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

You'd have to be a SASS "Gamer" to get the point, at all...

Lots of those guys have switched to .45 ACP for use with Black Powder, getting less velocity and therefore lass recoil than when using full BP loads in the old .45 Colt case.

Ah, a special use I suppose. As a non-SASS and SAA illiterate person, I just couldn't work it out in my brain why that would be useful. My inclination is to grab a 1911 if I need to shoot .45ACP ... probably frowned upon at a SASS event.

[Leverluver]

It has legit uses. We play with loads and different bullets for our 1911s and if it doesn't prove out, we blast away with our revolvers, single and double action. It sure beats pulling bullets.

[rjohns94]

good post Griff. thanks

[Terry Murbach]

Just to be clear, this guy was shooting .45ACP 185-grain truncated cone from an SAA? How does headspacing work on that? Surely he must have had a special .45ACP cylinder for the SAA? I'm not sure I get the point of that unless .45ACP is much cheaper than .45 Long Colt.

You'd have to be a SASS "Gamer" to get the point, at all...

Lots of those guys have switched to .45 ACP for use with Black Powder, getting less velocity and therefore lass recoil than when using full BP loads in the old .45 Colt case.

HOLY SMOKES BUCK, 45ACP BLACK POWDER LOADS ??!!! WHATINTHE'ELL IS WRONG WITH THOSE SASS FOLKS ANYWAY ??? I STILL CANNOT SAY EXACTLY WHY BUT THERE WAS SOMETHING FROM THE VERY BEGINNING OF SASS THAT IRRITATED ME AND MADE ME SAY " I DO NOT WANT ANY PART OF THESE PHONY BLOWHARDS." I DO NOT BEGRUDGE THEM ONE BIT FOR WHAT THEY DO AND THE SUCCESS OF THEIR VENTURE BUT THE TWO-BIT ANGLE SHOOTING GAMESTERS JUST GALL THE LIVIN' BEJABBERS OUTTA ME. IT SEEMS TO ME THAT FROM THEIR VERY BEGINNING THEY TRASHED THE VERY THING THEY WANTED TO ESPOUSE THE MOST, HISTORIC ORIGINALITY.

MY FAVORITE COLT SAA IS AN ORIGINALLY CHAMBERED 45ACP WITH A SPARE FITTED 45COLT CYLINDER. IT IS A WONDERFUL SHOOTING SIXGUN AND I DO NOT HAVE TO CHASE 45ACP BRASS ALL OVER THE PLACE AND DOWN HALF THE RATTLESNAKE HOLES IN THE HILLS. THIS LATTER FEATURE IS MOST IMPORTANT TO US LAZY OLD FAT GUYS.

[Buck Elliott]

HOLY SMOKES BUCK, 45ACP BLACK POWDER LOADS ??!!! WHATINTHE'ELL IS WRONG WITH THOSE SASS FOLKS ANYWAY ??? I STILL CANNOT SAY EXACTLY WHY BUT THERE WAS SOMETHING FROM THE VERY BEGINNING OF SASS THAT IRRITATED ME AND MADE ME SAY " I DO NOT WANT ANY PART OF THESE PHONY BLOWHARDS." I DO NOT BEGRUDGE THEM ONE BIT FOR WHAT THEY DO AND THE SUCCESS OF THEIR VENTURE BUT THE TWO-BIT ANGLE SHOOTING GAMESTERS JUST GALL THE LIVIN' BEJABBERS OUTTA ME. IT SEEMS TO ME THAT FROM THEIR VERY BEGINNING THEY TRASHED THE VERY THING THEY WANTED TO ESPOUSE THE MOST, HISTORIC ORIGINALITY.

MY FAVORITE COLT SAA IS AN ORIGINALLY CHAMBERED 45ACP WITH A SPARE FITTED 45COLT CYLINDER. IT IS A WONDERFUL SHOOTING SIXGUN AND I DO NOT HAVE TO CHASE 45ACP BRASS ALL OVER THE PLACE AND DOWN HALF THE RATTLESNAKE HOLES IN THE HILLS. THIS LATTER FEATURE IS MOST IMPORTANT TO US LAZY OLD FAT GUYS.

My sentiments also...

The Gamers have taken charge of the chicken yard, and there ain't no goin' back, I'm afraid...

[Nath]

I just love the way TM tells it

It's getting addictive checking Terry's posts

Nath.

[gamekeeper]

I just love the way TM tells it

It's getting addictive checking Terry's posts

Nath.

+ 1

[nemhed]

JUST ONCE I WISH TERRY WOULD TELL US HOW HE REALLY FEELS!!!!

[Buck Elliott]

You'd have to be a SASS "Gamer" to get the point, at all...

Lots of those guys have switched to .45 ACP for use with Black Powder, getting less velocity and therefore lass recoil than when using full BP loads in the old .45 Colt case.

Ah, a special use I suppose. As a non-SASS and SAA illiterate person, I just couldn't work it out in my brain why that would be useful. My inclination is to grab a 1911 if I need to shoot .45ACP ... probably frowned upon at a SASS event.

SASS now has a "Wild Bunch" class (remember the movie...?) which allows/requires a 1911 pistol and a '97 shotgun.

[Idiot]

It seems as though the magic combination is to achieve the lowest recoil impulse while still generating enough energy to actually cause the bullet to exit the barrel. Wouldn't be easier and less expensive to simply dress up like a Tom Mix character and play a video game?

[kimwcook]

I've been a SASS member for years, I also haven't attended a match in years. I shot my Colt SAA's in 45 Colt. I didn't shoot max loads, but they definitely let you know you weren't shooting pibsqueek loads either. I think the initial theory behind forming the society was unique (obviously 80 thousand plus think so too), but they've catered to the gamers and once again a good thing has gone or is going, to the dogs.

[adirondakjack]

Terry, SASS was NEVER intended to be historical reinacting, and even the founders will tell ya that. They were IPSC shooters looking for a venue to bring out their cowboy guns and have fun.

ANY time ya have a timer, and ya have a sincere interest in attracting a wide variety of folks, 6 to 80, ladies, men, half crippled, "Dilberts" with no gun experience, and allow any pistol cartridge from .32 up to .45, running head to head, yer gonna have to have some fairly lenient power factors.

My own QUITE SUCCESSFUL efforts to help folks run .45s head to head against .38s are real simple. Make a .45 Colt case that is ACP-length, (runs in any .45 Colt revolver, or rifles specially modified), and ya can get the same kinda ballistics BULLSEYE shooters have had for nearly 100 years.

I can run a 160 at 500 fps out of a .45 Vaquero and it acts like a .38, and is just as fast.... Ya simply can't git there with LONG Colt.....

AAMOF more has been done to SAVE the .45 for use by the GAMERS, increase gun sales, (which means companies will make the guns) by this little innovation than any other ammo-related CAS thing in nearly 30 years.

OH, bye the by, nobody says ya HAVE TO run em light. I can and I have run em at "Hardball" levels, and that works too. Try a lightly compressed load of 777FFG and a 250 in my short cases and ya know, they run about like 230gr .45 ACP ball (Which everybody knows is a he man round)

Cowboy45special.com for details.

[Terry Murbach]

Terry, SASS was NEVER intended to be historical reinacting, and even the founders will tell ya that. They were IPSC shooters looking for a venue to bring out their cowboy guns and have fun.

ANY time ya have a timer, and ya have a sincere interest in attracting a wide variety of folks, 6 to 80, ladies, men, half crippled, "Dilberts" with no gun experience, and allow any pistol cartridge from .32 up to .45, running head to head, yer gonna have to have some fairly lenient power factors.

My own QUITE SUCCESSFUL efforts to help folks run .45s head to head against .38s are real simple. Make a .45 Colt case that is ACP-length, (runs in any .45 Colt revolver, or rifles specially modified), and ya can get the same kinda ballistics BULLSEYE shooters have had for nearly 100 years.


I can run a 160 at 500 fps out of a .45 Vaquero and it acts like a .38, and is just as fast.... Ya simply can't git there with LONG Colt.....

AAMOF more has been done to SAVE the .45 for use by the GAMERS, increase gun sales, (which means companies will make the guns) by this little innovation than any other ammo-related CAS thing in nearly 30 years.

OH, bye the by, nobody says ya HAVE TO run em light. I can and I have run em at "Hardball" levels, and that works too. Try a lightly compressed load of 777FFG and a 250 in my short cases and ya know, they run about like 230gr .45 ACP ball (Which everybody knows is a he man round)

VERY INTERESTING JACK. THANKS FOR THE INTERESTING EXPLANATION. SOMEHOW THE MORE I THINK OF 45ACP BLACK POWDER LOADS IT JUST TICKLES THE STEW OUTTA ME !!! POOR OL' JOHN MOSES MUST BE UP NEAR 1200 RPMS BY NOW.

Cowboy45special.com for details.

[Paladin]

HOLY SMOKES BUCK, 45ACP BLACK POWDER LOADS ??!!! WHATINTHE'ELL IS WRONG WITH THOSE SASS FOLKS ANYWAY ??? I STILL CANNOT SAY EXACTLY WHY BUT THERE WAS SOMETHING FROM THE VERY BEGINNING OF SASS THAT IRRITATED ME AND MADE ME SAY " I DO NOT WANT ANY PART OF THESE PHONY BLOWHARDS." I DO NOT BEGRUDGE THEM ONE BIT FOR WHAT THEY DO AND THE SUCCESS OF THEIR VENTURE BUT THE TWO-BIT ANGLE SHOOTING GAMESTERS JUST GALL THE LIVIN' BEJABBERS OUTTA ME. IT SEEMS TO ME THAT FROM THEIR VERY BEGINNING THEY TRASHED THE VERY THING THEY WANTED TO ESPOUSE THE MOST, HISTORIC ORIGINALITY.

MY FAVORITE COLT SAA IS AN ORIGINALLY CHAMBERED 45ACP WITH A SPARE FITTED 45COLT CYLINDER. IT IS A WONDERFUL SHOOTING SIXGUN AND I DO NOT HAVE TO CHASE 45ACP BRASS ALL OVER THE PLACE AND DOWN HALF THE RATTLESNAKE HOLES IN THE HILLS. THIS LATTER FEATURE IS MOST IMPORTANT TO US LAZY OLD FAT GUYS.

My sentiments also...

The Gamers have taken charge of the chicken yard, and there ain't no goin' back, I'm afraid...

+1, I shot at the local club before my last trip to the Sand Box 99% are some realy great people.

[adirondakjack]

Terry, SASS was NEVER intended to be historical reinacting, and even the founders will tell ya that. They were IPSC shooters looking for a venue to bring out their cowboy guns and have fun.

ANY time ya have a timer, and ya have a sincere interest in attracting a wide variety of folks, 6 to 80, ladies, men, half crippled, "Dilberts" with no gun experience, and allow any pistol cartridge from .32 up to .45, running head to head, yer gonna have to have some fairly lenient power factors.

My own QUITE SUCCESSFUL efforts to help folks run .45s head to head against .38s are real simple. Make a .45 Colt case that is ACP-length, (runs in any .45 Colt revolver, or rifles specially modified), and ya can get the same kinda ballistics BULLSEYE shooters have had for nearly 100 years.


I can run a 160 at 500 fps out of a .45 Vaquero and it acts like a .38, and is just as fast.... Ya simply can't git there with LONG Colt.....

AAMOF more has been done to SAVE the .45 for use by the GAMERS, increase gun sales, (which means companies will make the guns) by this little innovation than any other ammo-related CAS thing in nearly 30 years.

OH, bye the by, nobody says ya HAVE TO run em light. I can and I have run em at "Hardball" levels, and that works too. Try a lightly compressed load of 777FFG and a 250 in my short cases and ya know, they run about like 230gr .45 ACP ball (Which everybody knows is a he man round)

VERY INTERESTING JACK. THANKS FOR THE INTERESTING EXPLANATION. SOMEHOW THE MORE I THINK OF 45ACP BLACK POWDER LOADS IT JUST TICKLES THE STEW OUTTA ME !!! POOR OL' JOHN MOSES MUST BE UP NEAR 1200 RPMS BY NOW.

Cowboy45special.com for details.

But would ya have any problem with a .45 WEBLEY or .44 Henry BP round" How about .44 Russian? They are ballistic twins to .45 ACP or Cowboy .45 Special If some feller wants to put some charcoal through his 1911 (99% of us wouldn't) have at it. He's a shooter, playing HIS game, same as the feller who shoots deadly PAPER with a .416 Rigby

[Hobie]

My take on the BP .45 ACP load is that at least they buy guns, shoot and, I hope, will vote pro-gun....

Any game will get people pushing the rules to gain some advantage.

[Griff]

Hey NOW! I consider myself a "gamer"... Why I use .36 caliber Colt Belt Models loaded w/77gr round balls & as much as 17 grains of 3F, & for my rifle I loadin'.45 Colt cases with between 160-225 grain pills in front of as much as 28 grains of Goex "Cartridge;" and for the SG I simply use a #38 bushing filled w/some "elcheapo" BP, WAA12R wads & 1 oz of shot and whatever 209 comes outta the reloadin cabinet.

Since I'm a big proponent of loads that don't crater targets, but I'd still dare ANYONE to stand in front of me! When I practiced with some regularity and was therefore competitive, I'd have been all over AJ's Cowboy45Special like a fly on stink!

@ 35 when I started playing in CAS I understood the NEED for SPEED, and for 10 years I don't think I ever finished lower than 5th in the BP category; and I have several 1st place plaques & buckles. Almost 25 years later, w/o the ability to practice regularly, (HAR! like NEVER!), I'll leave the real speed game alone.

While I never was an "uber"-competitor, like some, (anything to win), and as a gamer (seek the BEST way to complete a scenario AND stay in the rules), I'm only half-hearted; I still laugh and have fun while keeping my hand in a cometitive shooting sport that's also a recreational activity the entire family can enjoy. Think of it as a ½historical/½fantasy shooting match wrapped up in a costume contest.