44 special loads in a 3rd Gen Colt SAA

[rjohns94]

the walking in the woods topic got me thinking and since I haven't sold my Colt, I might as well carry it a bit and shoot it. I am going to order in some dies for the dillon press and load some loads up specifically for this 4 3/4" barrel marvel of Sam Colt. I know the colt is not as strong as the blackhawk so this is a very specific question: What bullet? (I was thinking a Keith style but which one?) What powder? (I have lots of Unique if that helps) and to what velocity should I load it to? I saw where some load 'em hot but I don't know what that really means. I carry it with Silver tips most of the time but I'm thinking 1000 fps should be good enough for woods walking, deer shooting, maybe even black bear discouragement??? Your thoughts please?? I will sit back and learn now.

[Don McDowell]

7.5 grs of unique with the Keith bullet (.430) is the load that my New Frontier really grooves on. It shoot's 8 grs just a bit tighter, but the ejector rod housing screw backs out after a couple cylinders full.
I don't guess I've ever chrony'ld that load from the colt, but from the 5 inch blackhawk conversion its doing 1050.

[Thunder50]

I also shoot the 429421 boolit in my 44sp Colt w/7.5gr Unique. Measure your cylinder throats. My barrel is .428" and cyl. throats were closer to .433". Made a big difference in group size, when I sized the boolits to .433" instead of my normal .430"(lucky my old mould casts that large).

[Old Savage]

240 SWC and 6.1 gr of Red Dot shoots perfectly in mine. You are on to a great combo there.

[O.S.O.K.]

RCBS or Lyman Keith swc plain based bullet. I have the RCBS mold and it works great. Definately slug your barrel with a soft lead ball or similar and size your boolits .001-.002" over the bore groove diameter. Air cooled wheel weight alloy is fine but a little softer like 1:20 tin/lead is fine too - the loads I'm listing below stay below 15,500psi.

If you don't cast, there are comercial outfits that supply this bullet, but they may not be the right size...

Loads for this 250 grain swc kieth bullet - all safe in your Colt:

Power Pistol 7.5 grains 921 fps
Power Pistol 8.0 grains 978 fps (this one is a great all-purpose load - including deer hunting)
Unique 6.0 grains 779 fps
Unique 6.9 grains 918 fps
W-231 5.5 grains 760 fps
W-231 6.0 grains 829 fps

Your revolver will like one of these and should shoot to point of aim with one of the above. These are among the very best loads IMHO. Very fun to shoot and the ones over 900 fps are fine deer loads - out to about 75 yards max.

[J Miller]

Several years ago I shot JimTs' 20 Anniversary Shootists .44 Special USFA with Skeeters load of 7.5grs Unique behind a 250gr Keith bullet.
It was a very nice shooting accurate load.

Not long before he left Scott T used his Single Action with that load to take nice fat deer.

Over on TRF there is a current thread http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=68941
where a member used his Ruger 44 Spcl with that load to take deer.

So, if I had a .44 special Colt, Ruger, USFA, Uberti or whatever, that's the load I'd be using.

Joe

[rjohns94]

thanks guys! Does anyone have experience with the Buffalo Bore ammo - 255 gr Keith SWC pushed to 1000fps. Says it is safe for all Colts. Also says good for game up to 500 pounds.

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l= ... etail&p=89

[O.S.O.K.]

That looks like the power pistol load or very close. Should be a good un if you want to buy loaded ammo. Its got the right bullets at the right speed...

Question is - will they shoot to your Colt's sights? I'm guessing that they'll shoot a bit low.

[Buck Elliott]

thanks guys! Does anyone have experience with the Buffalo Bore ammo - 255 gr Keith SWC pushed to 1000fps. Says it is safe for all Colts. Also says good for game up to 500 pounds.

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l= ... etail&p=89

That load, or its handloaded equivalent, will do anything you can ask of a .44 Special. Which is a lot...

[Don McDowell]

Nope never used the buffalo bore stuff always built my own.....

[Hobie]

Tim sent me some of the stuff and it is great ammo. I load the 7.5 gr. Unique/250 Keith Skeeter load on my own. Both are good. The BB stuff is noticeably more energetic! However neither is going to make shooting the Colt type grip uncomfortable.

[CEMENTHEAD]

+ 1 on the 7.5 grains of Unique/ 250 Keith bullet combo. Tom

[rjohns94]

Where do you get your 250 gr keith SWC ? do you use the GC version?

[Doc Hudson]

7.5 gr Unique, with a 240- 255 gr SWC has been the old standard for many years. But that was before they reformulated Unique. Current reloading data states that 7.5 grains of Unique is above maximum recommended loading, and that 7.0 gr is supposed to offer identical peformance as the old 7.5 gr. load.

i cannot and will not tell you to continue to use the old standard 7.5 grain load, but I still use it. In my 4.75" Italian SAA, it produces about 950 fps> I'm happy with the load's accuracy, and velocity and it doesn't seem to be adding to the wear on the revolver. Your Milage may vary. I'm not advising you to do what I do, I'm just telling you what I do.

[CEMENTHEAD]

Mike there are alot of firms that cast them. I like Mt Baldy and Montana Bulletworks. Both Plain and Gas check. Tom

[ceb]

Mike, if I wasn't still laid off, we would have talked about that Colt. Always wanted one. Like all the others, it would be hard to go to far wrong with that unique load. should do all you ask of it.

[Don McDowell]

Mike,I cast both the Keith and the Thompson bullet. But I have bought just plain jane 240swc's sized at .430 and used the same 7.5 gr unique load with good to excellent accuracy.
In additon to the already mentioned Montana Bullet Works, I like the bullets from Cheycast, and the Magnus and leadhead bullets have served well.

[Terry Murbach]

IT SEEMS TO ME AFTER DECADES OF 44SPL SHOOTING, THE ONLY REASON TO OWN ONE IS TO SHOOT 250gr KEITH SWC BULLETS AT 950FPS. IF YOUR GUN DOES BETTER AT 900 OR 1000FPS IT DOES NOT REALLY MATTER. BUT THAT 250@950 LOAD IS SO SWEET AND SO DEADLY AS IS, AS TO BEGGER COMPARISON.
ONCE YOU GO ABOVE THOSE LEVELS OF PERFORMANCE YOU MIGHT AS WELL BE SHOOTING A NICE 44MAG SIXGUN THAT CAN BE LOADED TO ALL THOSE LEVELS AND ON TO MUCH HIGHER LEVELS OF PERFORMANCE IN A SLIGHTLY HEAVIER SIXGUN THAT WON'T BEAT THE stuff OUTTA YOUR HANDS.
AS A FOR INSTANCE ; MY S&W M24 6 1/2" 44SPL WAS AN AVERAGE SHOOTING GUN AT BEST UNTIL I GOOSED THOSE 429421 250gr BULLETS UP TO 1150FPS WHERE THEY PERFORMED LIKE CIRCUS PONIES SHOOTING ONE HOLE GROUPS AND BEATING THE EVER LOVIN' stuff OUTTA MY GUNHAND IN THE PROCESS. THE SAME LOAD IN MY S&W 6" M29 WAS A WUSSYCAT TO SHOOT ALL DAY LONG. THE DIFFERENCE WAS THE LITTLE BIT OF EXTRA WEIGHT IN THE BARREL I DO BELIEVE.
THEN OF COURSE THERE IS MY 4" M624 THAT EATS ME ALIVE WITH HEAVY LOADS ANYMORE. I'VE TURNED INTO SUCH A WOOS IN MY ADVANCED DOTAGE !!! YEEE GADS !!!
AND SO IT GOES...

[Lefty Dude]

I shoot the 7 gr. Unique load with the 240 gr. Laser-Cast SWC in my Colts & my Ruger SBH, also my Rossi 92/44. In my Charter BD, I reduce the powder to 6 gr. with the 7 gr. and the light frame it is a handful for sure.

This is one sweet load.

[Doc Hudson]

I shoot the 7 gr. Unique load with the 240 gr. Laser-Cast SWC in my Colts & my Ruger SBH, also my Rossi 92/44. In my Charter BD, I reduce the powder to 6 gr. with the 7 gr. and the light frame it is a handful for sure.

This is one sweet load.

Does your Buldog bite you if your thumb is not in the exact right place when you shoot it? Mine does.

+1 on the reduced loads for the Charter Bulldogs. A full power 7,5 gr. Unique load in a 19-ouncer five-shooter will certainly make you are shooting a handcannon!

[Hobie]

Where do you get your 250 gr keith SWC ? do you use the GC version?

I got mine from Mt. Baldy Bullets. Frank makes a good bullet.

[Old Savage]

Most accurate load in my 6 1/2" 24 has been 12.5 gr of 2400 and a 240-250 gr SWC - very mild.

[txbirdman]

My 3rd Generation loves the same 429421 bullet ahead of 8.1 gr. of SR4756.

[Hank Dodge]

I like Mount Baldy as well for his Keith bullets. My standard load in the same 7.5 grains Unique under a 250 grain Keith. It shoots well in my Colt's. I'll load 6.0 grain Unique and a 240 grain cast round nose for general plinking.

[Grizz]

right in the ball park with the 45 ACP eh? that Mr. Browning was some kind of gun crank, wasn't he? the Keith load sounds like a good one, and any truncated cone with a little extra weight forward running in the 900s should be terrifical.

this topic NEEDS PICTURES Gents !!

Grizz

[O.S.O.K.]

OK

Ruger 44 Scl BH:


Same revolver with issue grips and some Keith boolit loads:


Keith boolits and loads close-up (next to some 300 grain 45 Cal boolits):


Smith&Wesson 696 with some Lee 240 swc gas check loads:


Lee boolit loads close-up:


How's that?

[cshold]

These may be worth a try Mike.
http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalo ... cts_id=349

[jhrosier]

I had been shooting heavy .44 Spl loads in my small framed revolver.
While they shot well, the screws started backing out and the loads were not fun to shoot.
I dropped back to slightly heavy loads, 245 gr bullet @ 900 fps and the load was much easier on both gun and shooter.
I have been working with Unique, 2400, and Win231 recently.
The Win 231 started showing mild pressure signs before I got to the velocity that I wanted, but shoots much cleaner than the others. It shows some promise for plinker loads.
The Unique loads shoot reasonably well but are a lot dirtier than I care for. Certainly a solid performer though.
Both Unique and Win231 show signs that they will be more consistent only as loads approach maximum. That is not where I want to be working.
My best accuracy and highest velocities so far have been with a 245gr RNFP (429667), over a just-over-book-maximum load of 2400 and using Winchester LP primers. I've not chronographed the load but it should be just about 900 fps. The load is very consistent, shooting around 2-1/2" - 10 shot groups at 25 yards. I intend to push the load another 5% and see if there is any worthwhile improvement in accuracy. The 2400 loads leave the gun reasonably clean except for leaving a significant amount of unburned powder behind.

Getting performance and accuracy with the .44 Special in a non-magnum revolver means walking a narrow path between performance and excess pressure. Most people would be better served by the .44 Mag. I like the challenge of developing an accurate load, so I won't be giving up on the .44 Special anytime soon.

Jack

[Lefty Dude]

A tip;
Using the 240-250 keith SWC with Unique. This combination likes a tight roll crimp, in so doing the Unique burns clean. The tighter the better. And the roll crimp is much better than a Lee FCD.

My six grain load does a SD of six for a 5 shot average.

[JerryB]

For many years now I have loaded 6.1 grains of Unique with a 240 grain cast swc for my old 4 inch Target Bulldog. It is scary accurate at 100 yards. I've not taken a deer with it yet but maybe a nice fat doe this year.

[Doc Hudson]

A tip;
Using the 240-250 keith SWC with Unique. This combination likes a tight roll crimp, in so doing the Unique burns clean. The tighter the better. And the roll crimp is much better than a Lee FCD.

My six grain load does a SD of six for a 5 shot average.

You beat me to the punch Lefty!

i was just about to comment that using a good heavy crimp makes unique about as clean burning as any other smokeless powder.

I never have understood all the complaints about unique being dirty.

[Malamute]

When I had a Colt SAA a few years ago, I shot some of the old Keith loads of 16 1/2 or 17 grs 2400 with the 250 gr 429421 Lyman bullet, cast from wheel weights. They run about 1200 fps I believe, and shot ok, but are pretty stout. I believe they are safe in the Colts 44 spls, Keith and many others shot them for many years without issue. They just arent much fun to shoot for me. If walking around in bear country, I wouldnt hesitate to carry those loads, but, as with most heavy loads for me nowadays, I dont shoot many heavy loads in anything. I think I've had a single box of heavy 45 Colts for carry loads, I havent shot half of them in 10 years.

The 250 gr Lyman bullet @ around 1000 fps is a nice all around load, for either the 44 spl, or 44 mag. Noticably flatter shooting than 44 spl standard vel loads when plinking at the 300 yd plate, and noticably more comfortable than full magnum loads in 44 mag, or the heavy Keith 44 spl loads.

[Hobie]

I never have understood all the complaints about unique being dirty.

Dittos.

[rjohns94]

Ok, this thread has got me really excited again about my Colt. Thanks!!!! I have ordered some buffalo Bore loads as I posted above, dies for my dillion and bullets from mount baldy. Also, I packaged up my Colt and sent it out to have one piece ivory grips installed, a tuning and throat package done, and perhaps a little scrimshaw work on one panel. Thanks for all your inputs, in the two weeks it will be away, I will be cranking out loads using 7.0 and 7.5 grains of unique under a 250 gr keith SWCGC bullet so that I can get it dialed in with the right one. The pistol will ride in my simply rugged holster made for it when it returns. I will get a range report out with pictures of the new work when it happens. Here is a pic of it before (and yes I know about the round under the hammer, not the way I carry it):

[Don McDowell]

I never have understood all the complaints about unique being dirty.

Like an awful lot of internet factoid, just regurgitated stuff, that's oft repeated without any actual hands on experience.

Mike looking forwards to seeing the reports...

[blackhawk44]

Always thought that there were only two loads, 7.5gr of Unique under a 429421 and 4.5gr of Bullseye under a 240gr Speer swaged lead. I kinda like .44 specials as long as they're shooters, such as...

S&W m 1950 Target 6.5"
S&W m 24-2 4"
S&W m 24-3 3"
Colt Bisley 7.5" (rebarrel & cylinder)
Colt SAA 3rd gen 7.5"
Colt SAA 3rd gen Sheriff's model
Ruger Blackhawk custom, circa 1975

[1886]

Where do you get your 250 gr keith SWC ? do you use the GC version?

I got mine from Mt. Baldy Bullets. Frank makes a good bullet.

Frank's bullets are top shelf. I just received 250 of his 250gr and 250 of his 300gr KT bullets sized .431. I shoot them out of a Virginian Dragoon. I shoot his 400gr KT bullet sized .475 out of a FA 83 .475 Linebaugh. 1886.

[thornblom]

I have a Colt 3rd generation New Frontier .44 spcl with 5 1/2" barrel. Many years ago when I lived in Burnet, Texas, I had a mentor named Ladd Hancher. He was retired from the Border Patrol and had shot on their pistol team. He had a S&W 1950 target 6" barrel .44 spcl and he used the Keith style swc and 6.5 grains of Herco. He out shot all of us with that load.

I have LaserCast 240 grain SWC and RNFP bullets at .431" diameter. I have tried both of those bullets with the 6.5 grains of Herco load and the rnfp bullet does the best from my Colt.

Don't really know what the velocity is but I have shot 6 shot groups of less than 2" at 25 yards over a sandbag rest. Just guessing, I'd say this load does about 875 ft/sec. That is just a guess, but it is accurate and not hard on the hand or the gun.

Sincerely,
Dave (Bubba) Thornblom

[Lefty Dude]

I have used Unique Powder for 40 years. And the older Hercules Unique was a very dirty powder. For almost 20 years I ignored Unique and used other powders. A few years back I was given a one pounder of Alliant Unique. I was surprised at how much of a difference there was in this new formula.

Now an eight pounder resides under my reloading bench, it is my go to powder for most of my revolver loads as well as 16 ga. shotshell reloading.

[J Miller]

When I first started loading the .45 Colt in 74 / 75 I used Unique. I've used it continuously since then. To be honest I can't tell the difference between the old Hercules and the newer Alliant Unique. I've still got some of the old loaded and when I shoot it my gun and hands get filthy.
When I shoot the new stuff my gun and hands get filthy. Same-o same-o.
Most of the external gunk is a combination of powder residue and bullet lube. Certain lubes are worse at creating the greasy gunk than others. You wanna see a major filthy mess, just load Unique under a bullet lubed with RCBS "rifle" lube. ICK!!!!

The internal powder residue, or what's left in the chambers and bore is about the same. No big deal, just clean it out when you clean your gun.

Joe