Chopping a ported guide gun

[Warhawk]

I stumbled into a deal on a stainless guide gun the other day, guy was getting out of the .45-70 game and sold me the guide gun with a Leupold M8-3X scope, decelerator pad, and a nice assortment of ammo, including several boxes of Hornady LE, some Garrett and some Buffalo Bore heavy stuff.



Now for the bad news, it's an older ported model. My hearing is bad enough already and I would really like to lose the ports.

One option would be to send it back to Marlin and have a new barrel installed. I would love to have the barrel and six shot magazine tube from the SBL installed, and I called Marlin and they will do that, but it wouldn't be cheap.

The other option would be to cut the barrel behind the ports. It looks like there is just enough barrel there to be legal.

Has anyone done this? Are you happy with the outcome?

[Tycer]

You could always suppress it.....

http://www.awcsystech.com/thundertrap.html

http://www.autoweapons.com/photos06/sep ... rtrap.html

I think it comes in non-blackened stainless also.

[Sixgun]

Greg Rodrigues (I can't spell his name) who writes for "Shooting Times" just did this exact thing. He had a ported Guide Gun cut to 16 inches and added a Decelerator pad. He reports the gun no longer has the muzzle blast. (dang, I think it was Shooting Times & Greg R. )-------------------Live......from the Snowy Rockies--------------Sixgun

[76/444]

I did it on my 1976 model Marlin 444,... accuracy is better. I have no clue why, other than maybe because I mentally really like how it handles with the shorter tube, or, it may be the custom carving fit to my grip that I did, or, the 2 inch soft crescent recoil pad I made for it! Probably all the above.

Only negative I can tell you is an increase in muzzle flip,... but, since accuracy has improved, it obviously is just an acceptable negative to me. One could always weight it some how, I guess, if it bothered them that much.

[Blaine]

I may send it back to Marlin for a non-ported bbl to be fitted, or I may sell it sans scout scope.

[Hobie]

I would have it rebarreled by Marlin with a factory barrel.

[salvo]

I chopped my Guide Gun to 16", Here is the link in the one sticky.

http://onesticky.levergunscommunity.org ... _mods.html

[Streetstar]

Salvo, that writeup on Pugslie is awesome ! Great work ! Not all of us have a combination mill, or the knowledge to use one correctly, but it gives me an idea of what my gunsmith has to go through when he chops one for me. I did not realize there were that many steps involved.

The Brockman sights look awesome

[Modoc ED]

A friend of mine (yes, I actually have one friend) sent his ported .480 Ruger to a machinist and had the holes drilled and tapped and filled with filler screws to just below the surface of the barrel and then filled with weld and polished. You'd never know it looking at the revolver now. Cost him all of $100.00 to do it and that included his shipping cost.

[Rusty]

I think I'd send it back. Maybe an XLR barrel?

[Modoc ED]

I gotta say that that is one fine looking rifle. That Leupold M8 3X scope looks like it BELONGS on that rifle. Very nice.

I'd sure as hell fire it both at the range and in the field before I monkeyed with it. You'll probably notice the noise a heck of a lot more at the range than in the field and to my way of thinking, that's a field/hunting rifle -- not a bench rifle.

EDIT: Think I'll order a couple/three or four of those scopes from MidwayUSA.

[TedH]

I'd send it back to Marlin for a barrel swap.

[Coldfingers]

I had mine done by a friend with some fancier tools than me. Cut it right through the center of the rearmost port (left a slight index mark on muzzel) and re-crowned. Still a noisy bugger but at least the blast is directed away from the shooter. Accuracy with cast bullets seemed to improve slighty and recoil, even with heavy BuffBore ammo, is tolerable.

It looks pretty business like with the stubby barrel and handles just fine for me.

IF you chopped it and did not like it you could still send it for a re-barrel and not be out that much.

I thought ol Jr. posted a "how to" on a barrel shortening and re-crown in the comfort of you own backyard. Anyone else recall that?

Scotty

[madman4570]

Instead spend $9.95 on BlastBuster™ Shooter's Ear Plugs ! Any 45-70 is pretty loud and you should have plugs in anyway! So shouldnt anyone around you. You are just enforcing this a little better after they hear the first shot go off.
That is a nice gun!

[Streetstar]

I admit to not shooting mine a lot with stout loads ---- pretty standard off the shelf stuff --- i got an excellent deal on a decent quantity of factory loaded ammo that was cheaper than buying new brass by itself .

Granted, i know a lot of you dont want to shoot 1300 -1400 fps ammo, but i have mine dialed in with those. The noise, even with ports, is not objectionable with these mild loads and the recoil is comparable to a .30-06 at most. Granted -- i may sing a different tune if i fire a couple of "Alaska/Africa loads" through it.


Under the circumstances --- i have no wish to delete the ports on mine, but would like a full length mag tube. (If 4 rounds is good, 6 is great ) -- plus in my eye, the full length tubes just look better

[allhands]

I just cut down the barrel on my .444. I will be posting pics of the project shortly. It is a job you can do yourself if you have any patience, and a few hand tools. I will say it takes a while to get through all that Marlin steel with a hacksaw, but a little work with a file, some fine grit sandpaper, some emery cloth and gun blue will get the job done. The crown can be re-cut with a large brass screw and polishing compound. Whole project took about 6 hours.

Or just spend the money on a barrel

[76/444]

I admit to not shooting mine a lot with stout loads ---- pretty standard off the shelf stuff --- i got an excellent deal on a decent quantity of factory loaded ammo that was cheaper than buying new brass by itself .

Granted, i know a lot of you dont want to shoot 1300 -1400 fps ammo, but i have mine dialed in with those. The noise, even with ports, is not objectionable with these mild loads and the recoil is comparable to a .30-06 at most. Granted -- i may sing a different tune if i fire a couple of "Alaska/Africa loads" through it.


Under the circumstances --- i have no wish to delete the ports on mine, but would like a full length mag tube. (If 4 rounds is good, 6 is great ) -- plus in my eye, the full length tubes just look better

From what I have read, Marlin Guide Gun porting seems to be a little less intrusive in the sound dept. than some other porting. I don't know, never even held one.

Nothing wrong with ought6 ballistics in my book! It is my go to caliber for work over 200yds. Heck,...going down to ought6 level ballistics might make a 45/70 tolerable!!

[Warhawk]

I chopped my Guide Gun to 16", Here is the link in the one sticky.

http://onesticky.levergunscommunity.org ... _mods.html

I've drooled over that one before. Unfortunately I don't have the tools or ability to do that.

This isn't my only 45-70, I have a 1975 model 1895 and an LTD III. The LTDIII is pretty darn close to your "pugslie" in most respects.

I'm leaning toward sending it back to Marlin for installation of a barrel and magazine from an 1895 SBL.

[86er]

Send it to Pitchford Custom Gunworks in Waller, Texas and he'll cut it and recrown it just right for a very reasonable price.

[Warhawk]

Send it to Pitchford Custom Gunworks in Waller, Texas and he'll cut it and recrown it just right for a very reasonable price.

Thanks, A good gunsmith is always a good thing to find.

[AJMD429]

I always wear hearing protection when shooting any centerfire, or any handgun, even when hunting (then I use amplifying muffs so I can actually hear wildlife/deer/fellow hunter noises better than without muffs). Therefore, I haven't noticed a difference between my ported .45-70 (I got used for a good price or wouldn't have picked a 'ported' one) and my 'normal' .444 Marlin.

Of course we all know the .444 Marlin is a mere pipsqueak compared to the roaring .45-70...

Seriously, if you wear hearing protection (and you really should) I'd be surprised if you notice much difference. Cosmetically, I have considered the tapping/filler-screw option, but didn't figure it's worth the effort. I do like the idea of a full-length magazine tube if I ever had the thing overhauled by a gunsmith, though...

[cas]

Almost 10 years ago now!

Much more better-er IMO.

[mergus]

I don't know if this is even remotely possible, but could you have a gunsmith install a barrel band front site that would cover the ports? The muzzle would end up looking like one of the custom big bore pistols Hamilton Bowen does with a barrel band for weight with an integral front site.

That would save the original barrel and look pretty cool too.

Mergus

[CEMENTHEAD]

The porting on mine doesn't bother me. However, I say chop it. If you don't like it you can always go to Marlin and rebarrel it. Maybe even put an XLR barrel (24")......... Make it yours. Enjoy it !! Thanks, Tom

P.S. That Leupold 3x commands $250+ in excellent shape from the Dangerous Game Hunters (I.E. Africa) it has quite a cult following with those guys. Good score !!

Here's mine..............

[horsesoldier03]

I would narrow it to 2 choices. Customize it and have a new barrel added, or sell it and use the money to get the rifle you really want. IMO cutting that barrel back behind the ports is going to make it too short to balance properly. If I am not mistaken, it will also effect the resale value. An awkward handling rifle will always be AWKWARD!

[Warhawk]

Finally made it to the range today with the stainless guide gun. Took a box of the Hornady LE ammo and a box of Federal 300 HP ammo. I quickly found out that the adjustments on the Leupold M8 3x scope are VERY touchy, just a friction adjustment (no clicks) and it's not marked as to how much an adjustment will move bullet impact.

It was supposed to be zeroed with the Federal ammo, and it probably was. For me the Federal shot dead on for elevation at 100 yards, but about 4 inches left. The LE ammo was the same amount left, but shot about 4 inches higher. I made what I thought was a small adjustment and my next 2 rounds barely hit the paper, low and to the right. I don't like the old friction adjustment scopes and I burned up most of my LE ammo getting it zeroed. But she's dead on now.



Because of all the fiddling with the scope I used up more ammo than I intended, so I didn't shoot for groups. But the LE ammo would put two shots touching or nearly touching at 100, then I would make an adjustment. It's currently dead on at 100 with the LE ammo, and the Federal shoots about 3-4 inches low.

My Uncle Mikes hammer extension parted company after the first round. I hope I didn't have it installed correctly.

I'm planning to shoot a couple of Kansas whitetails with it later this week. After the hunt I'll probably sell the M8 3x scope, I hear they are bringing good money. I will install a VX-III 1.5-5x 20mm Leupold that I'm not using at the moment. I wish I had installed it before going to the range today.

The recoil was surprisingly mild, the LE ammo had a bit more bite than the Federal stuff, but neither was bad at all. Between the ported barrel and the Limbsaver pad, it wasn't bad at all.

[Streetstar]

glad you made it out to shoot it before chopping it ! I have a ported gun (and i also have veru sensitive ears) --- the crack of a .270 or a .300 mag (even a 223 out of my SBR) bugs me much more than the ported Marlin.

A lot of folks hate ports, but in my eyes, the Guide Gun is not as traditional a rifle as other levers, so to me, if it doesnt hurt anything, it stays. But i do admit, the newest generation guns with 16" tubes look pretty cool.

I think the gun itself is so versatile, almost whatever you do is the "right choice". Wanna chop it? -- cool, add a scope? also cool, Add a scout scope? the GS can take it. And on and on ----- very versatile firearm

[Rifleman336]

[quote="salvo"]I chopped my Guide Gun to 16", Here is the link in the one sticky.

http://onesticky.levergunscommunity.org ... _mods.html[/quote]


A class act to say the least, Salvo. With work like that you should think of becoming of a pro gunsmith with work like that.

ROCK ON!!!

Rifleman 336

[salvo]

Thanks for the kind words Rifleman336.

Here is a picture of a good friend getting to know little Pugslie

[Grizz]

I would narrow it to 2 choices. Customize it and have a new barrel added, or sell it and use the money to get the rifle you really want. IMO cutting that barrel back behind the ports is going to make it too short to balance properly. If I am not mistaken, it will also effect the resale value. An awkward handling rifle will always be AWKWARD!

16" guns handle great in my experience. Balance problems are usually in the imagination of those who've never handled 'em. I say off with the ports! You'll never know if you don't try, and as everyone points out, you can always send it home to momma for a refurb.

As to value, I know shooters who would call the Bobber an upgrade and think it's worth more than the poor 'ol ported version...

I'm just saying

Grizz

[nemhed]

Salvo, that's a great picture of your buddy shooting Pugslie! Really puts it in the right perspective. I say chop those ports off! Resale value only counts if you're selling it!

[Rifleman336]

[quote="salvo"]Thanks for the kind words Rifleman336.

Here is a picture of a good friend getting to know little Pugslie

[img]http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/S ... G_1411.jpg[/img][/quote]


Heck, if I wasn't in school and outta work, I'd buy a plane ticket to get to know pugslie also!!!!! I might even leave my 336 behind for like conversion, to boot. Or would that wearout my welcome??

Rifleman 336


Rifleman 336

[salvo]

nemhed, it really makes for a compact powerhouse! But has a longer sight radius and carry's more ammo than a stock Guide Gun.
Your always welcome here Rifleman 336.

[gimdandy]

I'm in the minority here but I have both ported and non and would NEVER cut the ported one. I have 2 Alaskan hunts planned and for repeatable shots the ported is by far THE BEST. Shooting at the bench will show you without holding on to the forearm it will not jump up and I have had my std. barrel jump out of my left hand on 1 occasion with some stout loads.
Also in taking off the muffs and shooting both I can't tell any difference while I'm shooting it. Bystanders to the side are different.
You might consider leaving as is for a while and find someone at the range some time with a standard barrel guide and be able to make some comparisons for yourself .

[Gregch44]

I like the porting enough that I cut my guide guns to 16.1", and had them ported. These sawed off cannons need all the help they can get. I think the 16" guns handle great, but then I have quite a few Winchester Trappers so maybe I am just used to these litle carbines.

[Pete44ru]

A third option would be to run a tap into the porting holes, upset a lead bullet in the bore directly under the threaded ports, and screw in some stainless plug screws, fluxed with solder.

Apply mild heat after the screws are seated against the bullet (flush with the groove bottoms) to secure the screws and remove the excess/protruding screwheads. Polish, and the plugs should be indistinguishable from the barrel metal.

Don't forget to drive out the bullet/plug, from the rear of the barrel, after the job's done.

.