Cimarron Update

[TX Gun Runner]

There nothing like ordering $20 upgrade parts and take the gun apart to find out Cimarron has already put them in ... The fit and finish on this gun inside and out is the best I have seen in 30 yrs of gunsmithing . I took the stock trigger from 3 lbs to 1 3/4 lbs in 10 sec . The flat trigger spring was replaced with a wire one and the flat hand spring was replaced with the Ruger style coil spring . I put a leather washer under main spring .. Now the gun is bullet proof against breakage like a Ruger .

[gamekeeper]

If that gun is not a keeper, I don't Know what is!

[RIHMFIRE]

will that work for a Beretta Stampede too?

[J Miller]

When Steve Young rebuilt my Cattleman he converted the hand spring to the coil and plunger set up. Works good.

Later when I replaced the main and trigger/bolt spring with Wolff produces I was tempted to go to the coil spring. But the trigger pull was already too light. I prefer 2.5 to 3 # trigger pulls and IJ was already sitting at 2#. Too light for Joe.

Joe

[Buck Elliott]

will that work for a Beretta Stampede too?

Stampedes come with the wire bolt/trigger spring. They also have the coil spring/plunger setup for the hand(pawl). The leather washer trick under the hammer spring will help.

Love my Stampedes...

[awp101]

A happy little surprise, eh?

[Griff]

I would be remiss and inconsistent as all get out if I didn't implore you NOT to use a leather washer under the mainspring.

Two reasons:

1 - if the gun is exposed to moisture, the leather washer WILL retain it and will act like a breeding ground for rust on the screw holding the mainspring.

2 - if the gun is subjected to high temps or kept in very dry climes, the leather will dry out and shrink; giving you a loose mainspring.

I heartily recommend you put a stainless steel lock washer under that mainspring. Stainless will not harm your gun, and the lock feature will aid in keeping that screw and mainspring tight from the day you install it to the day you remove it.

Cimarron's Evil Roy's have that leather washer from the factory (or they do it... CRS), and I've had several discussions with Evil Roy about the practice. We've simply agreed to disagree. But... I know I'm right... even if I haven't ever won my category at EOT!

[Buck Elliott]

A few drops of olive oil on the leather tab will keep it from rusting/loosening/'whatevering...' The leather TAB with a hole in it relives strain at the pinch-point, where the spring leaves the support of the flat on the trigger-guard strap, lessening the possibility of spring failure at that point.

The leather should be of no more than 5/6 - oz. thickness, cut the width of the strap and about 1/4" longer than the relief on the strap, to allow a smooth transition for the spring. It goes UNDER the spring.

It's something I've done to my own guns and countless others for DECADES with no problems arising.

A "stainless-steel lockwasher" provides NONE of the benefits of the leather tab, in fact, it adds problems of its own, bringing the stress point even closer to the weakest part of the spring: the screw hole...

Griff -- You can be as "right" as you want to think you are, but you are WRONG about this one... (IMNSHO...)

[kimwcook]

I've got my own thoughts on the leather washer under the main spring, but I'm going to let Buck and Griff work on that. I don't understand why people don't get a lighter main spring or use a standard and sculpt it as Kuhn (sp) suggests in his book. I've done both to my SAA's and I've never lost one yet. Isn't that hard.

[Tennessee Hayre]

I have a colt .45 Cattleman and I have already had to replaced the spring and the gun is less then a year old. Looks like you have a great Ideal.

[Ysabel Kid]

That's an Uberti-manufactured gun, correct? I've always been impressed with their quality!

[jlchucker]

I would be remiss and inconsistent as all get out if I didn't implore you NOT to use a leather washer under the mainspring.

Two reasons:

1 - if the gun is exposed to moisture, the leather washer WILL retain it and will act like a breeding ground for rust on the screw holding the mainspring.

2 - if the gun is subjected to high temps or kept in very dry climes, the leather will dry out and shrink; giving you a loose mainspring.

I heartily recommend you put a stainless steel lock washer under that mainspring. Stainless will not harm your gun, and the lock feature will aid in keeping that screw and mainspring tight from the day you install it to the day you remove it.

Cimarron's Evil Roy's have that leather washer from the factory (or they do it... CRS), and I've had several discussions with Evil Roy about the practice. We've simply agreed to disagree. But... I know I'm right... even if I haven't ever won my category at EOT!

Griff,

What about a brass washer instead of leather? Would that work? Brass doesn't rust like leather would.

[jlchucker]

Whoops, Griff

I meant to say that the brass washer wouldn't attract moisture and aid in causing rust like a leather one would. Leather doesn't rust--but the steel abutting it might.

[rangerider7]

The trigger pull on all my late 3rd generations are smooth enough for me. I had a American Western Peacemaker with the deluxe action for a while. It was to easy to to go off before I was ready. I understand this for target shooting but for killing predators that surprize you, one or two legged, I like the trigger pull they come with. I came close to blowing my boot toe off with my toes in it one time and that did it for me. I traded the SA in on a Colt SAA 44-40 and never looked back, except at the powder burns on my boot.

[Sixgun]

They sure have come a long way. Up until the last couple of years, I always recommended staying away from the Italian junk. (and I'm half Italian ) Can't tell you boys how many of these early Uberti's and other SAA clones I have seen with broken sears, springs and all around soft metal and ill fitting parts and timing.

I did a thorough look-see of a 30 inch barreled Uberti 1873 in 44-40 yesterday at the gunclub and I must say I was impressed. Wood to metal fit was flawless, bluing was dark and rich, and even the color casehardening was a pleasant tone.

But............I'll still take a Colt or Ruger ----------------------Sixgun

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

I've got my own thoughts on the leather washer under the main spring, but I'm going to let Buck and Griff work on that. I don't understand why people don't get a lighter main spring or use a standard and sculpt it as Kuhn (sp) suggests in his book. I've done both to my SAA's and I've never lost one yet. Isn't that hard.

I don't care for the leather washer thing either. I've seen too many of them that were dried out and the screw got loose. If you are not going to take the time to grind or find the correct spring use a nylon or plastic washer and 222 loctite the screw in place.

The longevity of a colt style action will be greatly improved if the bolt finger to cam fit is dead on. If this fit is poor the cam wears away prematurely and you get the infamous ring-around-the-cylinder. That's why I prefer the late model style bolts like Colt is now using. This design is also used in the Pietta made EMF GW II's. The bolt finger that rides over and down the side of the cam is more rounded on the tip so it provides more bearing surface. Unlike the earlier colts and some of the Uberti guns which have more pointed finger tips.

[Griff]

Buck,

Nary a problem. I ain't a gunsmith, nor purport to even know much. But, what I've learned is both thru my experience and that of others... (when I've paid attention).

Don't get me wrong, the leather washer works. However, I've been at the range (CAS matches) far too many times to have someone start complaining of light strikes... no ignition... and when inspected for a loose spring, it had the leather washer under it. Generally, as the gun starts to fail, I've found about 3 causes; a broken hand spring, (inconsistent rotation and strikes against the rim or even between chambers), a broken or loose mainspring, (no or very light resistance to pull), and a broken bolt spring, (over-rotation or no lockup). Generally in that order for frequency. The majority of broken mainsprings are ones that have been ground, or are factory; and the loose ones have the leather washer or have never been inside of.

I will also admit that I got my first action job in 1986, at EOT (so you can probably figure out who), and the 'smith sculpted my mainspring and put a wire spring for the trigger and bolt. He took my gun back to his hotel and installed a Ruger plunger and hand spring. That mainspring lasted about 5 years of constant use. When it broke, it broke right at the transistion of the lower curve into the narrowed web. As I inspected the spring under a microscope, I could see very small stress cracks all thru that area, including how that break resulted from the same. Recalling a class sometime in metal working for my horseshoein', I remember a fellar tellin us about metal "flow" and "grain" and how that should be uninterrupted for strength and longevity.

So, I took my replacement mainspring and sculpted it to match the original, I then buffed everywhere I had ground on it. I smoothed those ground edges 'til they fairly shone like they were plated. That mainspring was still in that gun when it was completely rebuilt by Bill Oglesby a couple years ago. It was still fully functional and even with only 7 lbs of pull, cleanly struck and popped primers. (Bill put an adjustable spring in it's place, but sent me my spring back, as it was still serviceable).

So, yes, I am right. At least for me. You may be also, for you!

Nate,

I have not seen a plastic washer. How hard a plastic is it?

[TX Gun Runner]

All my match guns once a year I totally disassemble and clean and inspect parts and all moving part are assemble using S.T.O.S and Snake oil . The leather washer helps keep the hammer vibration down like a insulator plus it keeps the spring from contacting the metal frame . The washer I use is like 3/8 square with a little extra hanging over the edge where the spring flexes to keep making contact with frame . Metal or plastic washer won't do that .

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

Buck,


Nate,

I have not seen a plastic washer. How hard a plastic is it?

Just go to the plumbing section in the hardware store and you will find washers in several thickness's and hardness's. Some plastic, some nylon, some rubber.
I would have no problem using this if it were one of my own guns but I would never do this in a customers gun. I prefer to grind and polish.