Anybody here ever read "Farnham's Freehold"?

[Hobie]

I do believe that is the name of the book. No use in discussing it if nobody has read it.

[mescalero1]

Yes,
Many years ago, I ecommend you proceed.

[Naphtali]

Title is Farnham’s Freehold by Robert Heinlein.

They lived through the missiles, they lived through the bombs, they lived through the fires, they lived through the epidemics — which were not extreme and may not have been weapons; both sides disclaimed them — and they lived through the long period of disorders while civil government writhed like a snake with a broken back. They lived. They went on.
Their sign reads:
Farnham’s Freehold
Trading Post & Restaurant Bar

American Vodka
Corn Liquor
Applejack
Pure Spring Water
Grade “A” Milk
Corned Beef & Potatoes
Steak & Fried Potatoes
Butter & some days Bread
Smoked Bear Meat
Jerked Quisling (by the neck)
Crêpes Suzettes to order
!!!!Any BOOK Accepted as Cash!!!
DAY NURSERY
!!FREE KITTENS!!
Blacksmithing, Machine Shop, Sheet Metal Work —
You Supply the Metal
FARNHAM SCHOOL OF CONTRACT BRIDGE
Lessons by Arrangement
Social Evening Every Wednesday
WARNING!!!
Ring Bell. Wait. Advance with your Hands Up. Stay on path, avoid mines. We lost three customers last week. We can’t afford to lose you. No sales tax.
Hugh & Barbara Farnham & Family Freeholders

[Hobie]

Well, that's 3 of us...

I was just thinking, as Mescalero1 pointed out in another topic, how things are constantly changing. You might remember that Farnham found himself on the wrong side of the racial barrier...

[mescalero1]

National Geographic had a program on Sunday called The Human Family Tree, I believe it will run all month.
I recommend that eveyone watch it, if nothing else it illustrates the futility of racial bias.
It is something that should not exist.

[Naphtali]

National Geographic had a program on Sunday called The Human Family Tree, I believe it will run all month.
I recommend that eveyone watch it, if nothing else it illustrates the futility of racial bias.
It is something that should not exist.

You might want to read Gordon Allport's The Nature of Prejudice.; (1954; 1979). Reading, MA, Addison-Wesley Pub. Co. ISBN 0201001780. Among his findings were: To be perceived as different is to be perceived as inferior.

[awp101]

Anybody here ever read "Farham's Freehold"?

No, but I have read The Defence of Duffer's Drift... I may even still have my copy.

Sounds like I need to check out Farham's Freehold as well. I'm so far behind in my reading that one more addition won't matter.

[Hobie]

National Geographic had a program on Sunday called The Human Family Tree, I believe it will run all month.
I recommend that eveyone watch it, if nothing else it illustrates the futility of racial bias.
It is something that should not exist.

Absolutely! I think though that we see a number of folks who ARE NOT FOLLOWING THAT LINE OF THOUGHT! It is payback time and their tribe (for want of a more accurate term) is determined to do the others in. They have, indeed, adopted the worst of what they strove so diligently to overcome (just as in the book). It is human nature, after all. If that doesn't prove Mescalaro1's point...

[Stan in SC]

I read it some years back and as I remember I enjoyed reading it.

Stan

[mescalero1]

For those of you capable of forward thought:
notice the " any book accepted as cash "
This speaks volumes to what will be valued in a post apacalyptic world.

[pokey]

I do believe that is the name of the book. No use in discussing it if nobody has read it.

yes sir.

enjoyed all of mr. heinlein's books.

[scarville]

I have. It is one of Heinlein's best, IMO. It is also one of the most misunderstood of his novels -- even more so than Starship Troopers.

[20cows]

I read it a while back.

[CJM]

For those of you capable of forward thought:
notice the " any book accepted as cash "
This speaks volumes to what will be valued in a post apacalyptic world.

Well, hopefully. But not sure if it really speaks about a post-apocalyptic world, or just Heinlein's world. He definitely liked books, but I think that goes with the territory when you are an author of as many as he wrote.
I have always felt that the most interesting "twist" to that story of time-traveling was that he didn't return to the same place as he left. A very early fore-shadowing of what Heinlein would start to explore with his "future histories" when he started to tie everything he had ever written together into one big story.

[pokey]

The Sneetches, by Dr. Seuss
Now, the Star-Bell Sneetches had bellies with stars.
The Plain-Belly Sneetches had none upon thars.
Those stars weren’t so big. They were really so small.
You might think such a thing wouldn’t matter at all.

But, because they had stars, all the Star-Belly Sneetches
Would brag, “We’re the best kind of Sneetch on the beaches.”
With their snoots in the air, they would sniff and they’d snort
“We’ll have nothing to do with the Plain-Belly sort!”
And, whenever they met some, when they were out walking,
They’d hike right on past them without even talking.

When the Star-Belly children went out to play ball,
Could a Plain Belly get in the game? Not at all.
You only could play if your bellies had stars
And the Plain-Belly children had none upon thars.

When the Star Belly Sneetches had frankfurter roasts
Or picnics or parties or marshmallow toasts,
They never invited the Plain-Belly Sneetches
They left them out cold, in the dark of the beaches.
They kept them away. Never let them come near.
And that’s how they treated them year after year.

Then ONE day, it seems while the Plain-Belly Sneetches
Were moping and doping alone on the beaches,
Just sitting there wishing their bellies had stars,
A stranger zipped up in the strangest of cars!

“My friends”, he announced in a voice clear and clean,
“My name is Sylvester McMonkey McBean.
And I’ve heard of Your troubles. I’ve heard you’re unhappy.
But I can fix that, I’m the Fix-It-Up Chappie.

I’ve come here to help you.
I have what you need.
And my prices are low. And I work with great speed.
And my work is one hundred per cent guaranteed!”

Then, quickly, Sylvester McMonkey McBean
Put together a very peculiar machine.
And he said, “You want stars like a Star-Belly Sneetch?
My friends, you can have them for three dollars each!”

“Just pay me your money and hop right aboard!”
So they clambered inside. Then the big machine roared.
And it klonked. And it bonked. And it jerked. And it berked.
And it bopped them about. But the thing really worked!
When the Plain-Belly Sneetches popped out, they had stars!
They actually did. They had stars upon thars!

Then they yelled at the ones who had stars at the start,
“We’re still the best Sneetches and they are the worst.
But now, how in the world will we know”, they all frowned,
“If which kind is what, or the other way round?”

Then up came McBean with a very sly wink.
And he said, “Things are not quite as bad as you think.
So you don’t know who’s who. That is perfectly true.
But come with me, friends. Do you know what I’ll do?
I’ll make you, again, the best Sneetches on the beaches.
And all it will cost you is ten dollars eaches.”

“Belly stars are no longer in style”, said McBean.
“What you need is a trip through my Star-Off Machine.
This wondrous contraption will take OFF your stars
so you won’t look like Sneetches that have them on thars.”
And that handy machine working very precisely
Removed all the stars from their tummies quite nicely.

Then, with snoots in the air, they paraded about.
And they opened their beaks and they let out a shout,
“We know who is who! Now there Isn’t a doubt.
The best kind of Sneetches are Sneetches without!”

Then, of course, those with stars got all frightfully mad.
To be wearing a star was frightfully bad.
Then, of course, old Sylvester McMonkey McBean
invited THEM into his Star-Off Machine.

Then, of course from THEN on, as you probably guess,
Things really got into a horrible mess.

All the rest of that day, on those wild screaming beaches,
The Fix-It-Up Chappie kept fixing up Sneetches.
Off again! On again! In again! Out again!
Through the machines they raced round and about again,

Changing their stars every minute or two. They kept paying money.
They kept running through until the Plain nor the Star-Bellies knew
Whether this one was that one or that one was this one. Or which one
Was what one or what one was who.

Then, when every last cent of their money was spent,
The Fix-It-Up Chappie packed up. And he went.
And he laughed as he drove In his car up the beach,
“They never will learn. No. You can’t Teach a Sneetch!”

But McBean was quite wrong. I’m quite happy to say.
That the Sneetches got really quite smart on that day.
The day they decided that Sneetches are Sneetches.
And no kind of Sneetch is the best on the beaches.
That day, all the Sneetches forgot about stars and whether
They had one, or not, upon thars.



wisdom from the good doctor.

[rhead]

I do believe that is the name of the book. No use in discussing it if nobody has read it.

I had my audio version of it playing while we listened to the election returns. Took a bit of gaf from my wife for it. I would have a hard time saying what is the best. Farnham's Freehold, Starship Troopers, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, would all be on the short list. Glory Road for the entertainment value. " The Glory Road is mostly rocks, and does not seem to really go anywhere."

How many have read "For Us the Living" his first novel written in 1939 back when he was still a liberal?

[Idahoser]

I read almost everything he wrote, but it's been so long it's all new again. I think I'll start with that one, and The Moon is a Harsh Mistress will be next.

[Hobie]

You will note that he was armed when he arrived at the new time/place. Also, his wife and son had been coopted by society to the point that they were essentially useless.

[Cliff]

I don't really know how many of his books I have read. The first one was "Star Beast" a light story from his Juvenile(sp) series, when I was 13 and it caught. I turned into a full time reader and still am at 65. Of course how many books he authored I have no idea. Would be interesting to me to try and track them all down. I suppose a trip to a good public library would be a good starting point. He covered many topics and most of his stuff made people think. Now you got me on a new quest to see what I can scrounge up. Thanks

[Brian in FL]

I'm a big Heinlein fan myself, and I think Farnham's Freehold was one of his best. I also think Starship Troopers is quite underrated. But, my favorites are the ones with Lazarus Long, aka Woodrow Wilson Smith. His views on society are priceless. Like TANSTAAFL and "an armed society is a polite society." His views on citizenship responsibility are probably even more important today the way things are going in this country. And he was a cat lover as I am.

[rhead]

I don't really know how many of his books I have read. The first one was "Star Beast" a light story from his Juvenile(sp) series, when I was 13 and it caught. I turned into a full time reader and still am at 65. Of course how many books he authored I have no idea. Would be interesting to me to try and track them all down. I suppose a trip to a good public library would be a good starting point. He covered many topics and most of his stuff made people think. Now you got me on a new quest to see what I can scrounge up. Thanks

I have 59 titles on my list in the computer many are novellas and short stories though. I also have Time Enough for Love and Between Planets in my dead tree collection. That would make at least 61.

[PaulB]

Been a huge Heinlein fan ever since I was 15 or so. Starship Troopers and The Moon is a Harsh Mistress are my favorites. He had a series of short stories, that he called "The Crazy Years". I think we are in them now.

If you guys like Heinlein, give this book a try:

[Idahoser]

I guess every Heinlein book was my favorite at the time I read it first. But in hindsight I guess the one I liked best (and read most) was a collection called "The Past Through Tomorrow: A Future History". Old man Harriman would be a good guy to have around these days, being as the final frontier is the only place left to go to try to get away from commies.

[rhead]

Farnham also returned to a different universe, one in which Barbara could drive a standard shift and had a car with a standard, If I recall correctly that saved their lives.
One of the best on a paradox from time travel that Heinlein wrote was All You Zombies. A short story.

[Griff]

I must admit... it seems odd, that a bunch of gun cranks, infatuated with old 19th Century lever guns would also find some commonality in shared appreciation of Heinlein's science fiction.

We must be sick, depraved individuals to find comfort and entertainment in such places.

I've read several of his books... included Farnham's Freehold. And enjoyed them, one and all. It always struck me as slightly incongruous that Heinlein was a Navy Lt. I read 4 of his books during my 1st cruise to VN in 1972 on board a Destroyer. I read Ayn Rand on the return voyage.

I've also wanted to re-read several of them, and find some of the other books that overlapped and complimented the ones I have read. But... popular, new stuff keeps getting in the shopping cart first. I could spend thousands of dollars at a book store and still only get a tip of the iceberg of literature that WANT to read.

[Hobie]

One of my favorite characters was Lazarus Long. I'm not sure why... All of Mom's collection of sci-fi books(Farnham's Freehold and other Heinlein classics included) headed to auction yesterday (a long day loading 5K books plus furniture, etc.). I don't usually buy books other than gun books now. I did all my sci-fi reading in high school. So, how many here STILL read sci-fi?

[awp101]

Any chance we can get a spoiler warning since some of the posts give away plot turns?

[stretch]

I read it just a year or two ago.

Terrific read.

I just finished Robert B. Parker's "Resolution". Not bad - same
themes as most of his fiction. Sequel to "Appaloosa".

Also Louis L'Amour's "Last of the Breed". Another good read
set in the Soviet Union.

-Stretch

[JohndeFresno]

Well, that's 3 of us...

I was just thinking, as Mescalero1 pointed out in another topic, how things are constantly changing. You might remember that Farnham found himself on the wrong side of the racial barrier...

Now you have my attention, I cut my literary teeth on many of Heinlein's excellent science fiction works; so I will order this book.

Another outstanding book about "being on the wrong side of the racial barrier," more relevant now than when it was a top seller in the mid-60's, was John Hershey's "White Lotus." In that book, China has taken over the U.S. - as they have started to do with some of our local bankrupt chains, like the Gottschalks Department Stores in California.

Non-Chinese are discriminated against here in the U.S. and are easily differentiated by their skin color. They assume the silent protests of the Gandhi era and other devices, in order to try to secure equality. Well written, fascinating, and very revealing. I want to be careful not to make this into a reply that belongs on the "Politics" side of this forum; but I am sure that it is apparent to all readers that the mainstream media and many "prominent" politicians are now demonizing Christians ("bitterly holding onto their guns and religion") in an ever-increasing attack, reminiscent of pre-cursors to the types of isolation and then persecution of the Jews in 1930's Germany.

A quick search reveals that Amazon has the Hershey "White Lotus" novel, and it is probably on e-Bay as well.

[JohndeFresno]

I must admit... it seems odd, that a bunch of gun cranks, infatuated with old 19th Century lever guns would also find some commonality in shared appreciation of Heinlein's science fiction. ....I've read several of his books... included Farnham's Freehold. And enjoyed them, one and all....I read 4 of his books during my 1st cruise to VN in 1972 on board a Destroyer. I read Ayn Rand on the return voyage...

Yes, Griff. I'm reading "The Fountainhead" (Ayn Rand) right now! I just finished an excellent Sci-Fi book that makes you think about the abuses of genetic research - "Next" by the late great Michael Crichton.

I have frequently thought that many "Levergun" devotees here share the common bonds of wanting a world with values, where a man's word was his bond, a handshake consummated an honest deal, as we like to envision the "Old West" - and a science fiction type of future with hope of a better world; all of which seems to be largely missing in the here and now of our hedonistic, selfish and cynical "enlightened" society.

[Idahoser]

And again, for those who have avoided it, you will love the TV show "Firefly".

[pokey]

One of my favorite characters was Lazarus Long. I'm not sure why... All of Mom's collection of sci-fi books(Farnham's Freehold and other Heinlein classics included) headed to auction yesterday (a long day loading 5K books plus furniture, etc.). I don't usually buy books other than gun books now. I did all my sci-fi reading in high school. So, how many here STILL read sci-fi?

when i can find one to hold my interest.

you guys would probly like the stainless steel rat books by harry harrison.

by far my favorite heinlein book was time enough for love, i don't as a rule reread books
but have read that one several times with more to come i'm sure.

[rhead]

I still read it. Right now I am getting through with Harry Turtledoves alternate history (American empire series) The colonization series was very entertaining. Harrison's stainless steel rat is very good. I slip one end between the books with more meat in the plot. He also wrote a series that starts with West of Eden, also very good. His most thought provoking was Make Room. The book that was the basis for Soylent Green.

[AJMD429]

For those of you capable of forward thought:
notice the " any book accepted as cash "
This speaks volumes to what will be valued in a post apacalyptic world.

Yes - after emergencies it always goes back to Food, Water, Shelter, and Weapons, with Medical and Communications not far behind.

As for books, keep in mind that in 'hard times' often 'entertainment' is highly valued as an escape from the harsher realities. Books are portable and serve some of the same role as plays and movies.

Gotta start reading Heinlein again - I was a 'good reader' as a kid, so read many of his books during grade school and junior high, but I was probably too young to get the 'message' very well. (On the other hand maybe the reason I'm a stubborn, gun-loving Libertarian is because I did read his books during my formative years.)

I think gun people are freedom people, and freedom people value stories of heroism and freedom, regardless of the time setting.

I too could spend much money in a book store - and have.

[Idahoser]

(On the other hand maybe the reason I'm a stubborn, gun-loving Libertarian is because I did read his books during my formative years.)

The cure for what's wrong, if we could just get it to spread before there's no going back

[Retro]

So, how many here STILL read sci-fi?

Spider Robinson, and John Scalzi, if you like Heinlein.

[Griff]

I still read SciFi, but more for it's entertainment value than any "message", currently reading all of James Axler's two series, Outlanders and DeathLands. Another favorite is Anne McCaffrey's Dragonriders of Pern series.

[JohndeFresno]

So, how many here STILL read sci-fi?

As a kid, Sci Fi was my predominant reading. Heinlein was a favorite; and Isaac Asimov's "I, Robot" was one of my favorites. Asimov's the "Laws of Robotics" formed the basis of many later stories and movies (including a movie by that title). Forbidden Planet, Lost in Space, Robocop all played upon two conflicting rules - to protect others and not to harm others - for instance.

I still read Michael Crichton's works, which are amazing. You usually have to wade through the first third of his books learning all of the technical background of whatever he is writing about, while learning tons of stuff; then, you can't let let go of the book because of the way that he holds you in suspense.

I managed to collect his little known early works - paperbacks under another name before his death. Crichton put himself through Medical School while writing under the alias "John Lange" because he did not want the doctors to frown upon his authorship of predominantly pulp fiction, per what I have read. E-bay was a good source, and I guess the sellers did not know what they had, because I obtained the books cheaply. He also wrote under the names Jeffrey Hudson and Michael Douglas, the latter used only in one book and written in collaboration with his brother, Douglas Crichton. My collection of early paperbacks (exclusive of my Crichton collection):
Author: "John Lange"
Zero Cool; Grave Descend; The Last Tomb; Scratch One; Binary (his first purely sci fi book).

[Molasses]

Hello the fire!
Signed up here awhile back but haven't felt up to introducing myself before.

Unless a book just plain stinks, I'll usually keep it and the Missus is kinda the same way. We even have stacks on the coffee table that have to be moved if we want to sit and watch tv.
I went through a big Heinlein kick back in my teens and have reread most of them several times over. Farnham's Freehold is a good one to get you started thinking about a whole slew of things, or you can run through it quick, gloss over the thought-provoking bits and just enjoy it as an escapist bit of entertainment.
When I stop to think about it, that last could describe a fair amount of Heinlein's stuff. Even some of his stories aimed at a younger audience have things to ponder over if you're so inclined.