Got an itch for a 73 Uberti-What caliber?

rods · Post by **rods** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:58 pm

I am getting the funds together for a long waited Uberti 73 rifle. I plan to use it for pistol caliber cowboy silhouette game. I am undecided on the caliber and barrel length. I am leaning toward the 32-20 with 24" barrel. Anyone on here have experience with the 30" models? Would a 44-40 or 45Colt in the 30" barrel be more desireable? I could use some feedback!
Thanks
Rod

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:04 pm

I have one with a 30-inch tube in .45 Colt. I love really long rifles, and this thing is the cat's meow. One of my favorites (third one from the bottom)!

(See Hobie, I can post on levergun topics!

)

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:06 pm

Ysabel Kid wrote:

(See Hobie, I can post on levergun topics!)

I don't see any slippers, how do we know that's YOUR pic?

pokey · Post by **pokey** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:07 pm

bloviating?

when did you get the rank?

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:10 pm

awp101 wrote:
Ysabel Kid wrote:

(See Hobie, I can post on levergun topics!)
I don't see any slippers, how do we know that's YOUR pic?

True - kind of hard to prove it's mine without my trademark. It was part of this series, and even my feet aren't that big!

Shasta · Post by **Shasta** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:20 pm

I use a Uberti made Cimarron Deluxe style with the checkered pistol grip stock and 24" barrel in .32-20. The Uberti rifles have notoriously heavy triggers, so plan on having a trigger job done. I also installed a Marble's tang sight and a Lyman 17A globe front sight on mine. It is very accurate. Last year I qualified as a AAA shooter with it, and not long ago I shot my first Master score.

I have a friend who has one of the long 30" 1873s in .45 Colt. The cool factor is definitely there! I hope to add a long barrel to my collection some day, and if I do, it will be the .44-40 simply because I have never had a .44-40. The long barrel, at least on my friend's rifle, is not any more accurate than the 24" barrel.

For silhouettes, go with the .32-20!

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:21 pm

pokey wrote:bloviating?

when did you get the rank?

Must have got the demotion today. I think Hobie might think I'm loquacious!

rods · Post by **rods** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:28 pm

Shasta- That is the kind of information I am looking for, thanks. With the tang sight, is there room to wrap your thumb around the top of the stock? I have tried the thumb along side of the stock, and has not worked for me. Will common size bullets for a 32-20 fit the uberti rifles?
Thanks
Rod

Kansas Ed · Post by **Kansas Ed** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:54 pm

Not a Uberti, but I have an original in 38-40 with the 30" pipe and a single set trigger. It's one of the sweetest and most accurate leverguns I own. It would get awkward packing around the mountains all day though. But if you are fanatical enough...

Ed

gak · Post by **gak** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:12 am

One thing to keep in mind - as with any smaller caliber weapon -- the longer the barrel the heavier (obviously) it will be. Some folks forget that basic fact; as practical matter, these things get very heavy. Yes, muzzle stays down nicely (already not a huge factor with the .32s..so the extra length is not needed for that purpose to begin with). If this weight is ok with you, great, but something in favor of the .44s and .45s, or even - to a lesser degree - .38s...especially if you're toting around by hand a lot.

barbarossa · Post by **barbarossa** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 5:17 am

My 1of 1000 has a 30 inch barrel and is in 44/40.With the pistol grip stock it handles real nice.

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 5:52 am

Ysabel Kid wrote:
pokey wrote:bloviating?

when did you get the rank?
Must have got the demotion today. I think Hobie might think I'm loquacious!

Priceless!!

That 1 of 1000 is a real beauty!

I have an original '73 in .32-20 that was my Grandfather's. Neat old rifle!

Been wanting a long barreled 73 in .44-40.

jb

Leverluver · Post by **Leverluver** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:30 am

I agree with GAK, the 73 in 32-20 is a dang heavy rifle. I have a 20" octagon and it is plenty heavy. I wouldn't want to pack a 30 or even a 24". I'm a little more picky about portability than most. If all you do is haul it to the range in the back of an SUV, it won't matter. If you do any woods loafing the extra weight does matter.

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:29 am

While the "COOL" factor definitely applies, a 30" barrel is far more than you need -- or can make efficient use of -- for any pistol-caliber rifle. You may even notice a velocity loss, as the bullets skid & slide the last few inches down the barrel without sufficient pressure to accelerate them further.

Rimfire McNutjob · Post by **Rimfire McNutjob** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:38 am

My two cents would be 32-20 short rifle ... maybe 22" in a '73. Not sure if such has been offered by Uberti though. I just like the look and feel.

Leverluver · Post by **Leverluver** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:03 am

Rimfire, that's what mine is, a 20" oct 32-20 and it still weights more than my 24" 45 cal. That's a lot of metal with a very small hole in it.

RIHMFIRE · Post by **RIHMFIRE** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:20 am

barbarossa wrote:My 1of 1000 has a 30 inch barrel and is in 44/40.With the pistol grip stock it handles real nice.

THAT IS AWESOME

jnyork · Post by **jnyork** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:58 pm

I shoot a LOT of silhouette with several different rifles. The 32-20 is a GREAT cartridge for this game. IMHO, the 24" barrel would be preferable, gives you 4" more sight radius which helps with accurate shooting. You want a rifle that is somewhat nose-heavy for offhand shooting, but I think the 30" barrel would be overkill and get you into the zone of diminishing returns by being TOO heavy. Best bet is to handle one of each and see how it hangs for you.

Rimfire McNutjob · Post by **Rimfire McNutjob** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:28 pm

Leverluver wrote:Rimfire, that's what mine is, a 20" oct 32-20 and it still weights more than my 24" 45 cal. That's a lot of metal with a very small hole in it.

Yeah, but it's sporty lookin' though ... whereas a 30" would look like a big long Cadillac from the old days. I need to get one in 22 Long one of these days.

HEAD0001 · Post by **HEAD0001** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:58 pm

I went to the Uberti web site. I could not find where the 1873 was available in the 32-20?? Maybe an older model?? Tom.

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:32 pm

HEAD0001 wrote:I went to the Uberti web site. I could not find where the 1873 was available in the 32-20?? Maybe an older model?? Tom.

Go to http://www.cimarron-firearms.com to find what you're looking for. They have several variations listed in .32 WCF (a.k.a. .32-20)

BTW, my current '73 is a 24" .45 Colt -- straight stock, plain-jane model. I developed loads for it using IMR-4198, then later switched to H-4198, which is just a tad (but noticeably) slower. With 24.0 gr H-4198 under a 250 gr. LaserCast bullet, lit by a CCI LPMP, I get right at 1450 fps. I chose the slower "rifle" powder to obtain a relatively long, slow pressure curve, and to still have powder/pressure working for me at the business end of the barrel.

Uberti barrels are tight -- .451" groove dia. in my .45 -- but I still get best results out of .454" dia. bullets.

Leverluver · Post by **Leverluver** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:39 pm

It's available in about everything, including the carbine. I just got mine new two months ago.

Shasta · Post by **Shasta** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:08 pm

rods- To answer your questions, the tang sight does barely leave enough room to wrap your thumb behind it. Since the .32-20 has little to no recoil it does not bite the thumb. I ty to get in the habit of resting the thumb along side the stock rather than over since I do have other tang sighted rifles with noticeable recoil.

My Cimarron .32-20 uses hand-cast 116 grain Lyman 311008 bullets sized .312, so yes, comercially available cast bullets will do fine. I have shot the Lazercast brand and they are very good bullets.

SHASTA

Driftwood Johnson · Post by **Driftwood Johnson** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:02 pm

Howdy

My '73 is the straight stocked 24" model in 44-40. I love the 44-40, would not own a rifle chambered for 45 Colt. That said, I would love to have a 24" deluxe model with pistol grip and checkering, also in 44-40. But I use mine for CAS, and frankly, I have been a bit hard on my '73. The stock is quite dinged up at this point, and I would feel bad if I dinged up a beautiful deluxe model.

I agree that a 30" barrel is probably overkill, particularly if you ever consider shooting it with Black Powder. BP requires special bullet lubes, and the longer the barrel, the more lube the bullet must carry. I suspect many BP bullets would run out of lube for that last 6" or so and you would start to build up some serious accuracy ruining fouling near the muzzle. I used to experience this with my 24" '73 until I changed to a bullet that carried more lube. But 30" would need a real lot of lube.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:17 pm

Buck Elliott wrote:While the "COOL" factor definitely applies, a 30" barrel is far more than you need -- or can make efficient use of -- for any pistol-caliber rifle. You may even notice a velocity loss, as the bullets skid & slide the last few inches down the barrel without sufficient pressure to accelerate them further.

jnyork wrote:I shoot a LOT of silhouette with several different rifles. The 32-20 is a GREAT cartridge for this game. IMHO, the 24" barrel would be preferable, gives you 4" more sight radius which helps with accurate shooting. You want a rifle that is somewhat nose-heavy for offhand shooting, but I think the 30" barrel would be overkill and get you into the zone of diminishing returns by being TOO heavy. Best bet is to handle one of each and see how it hangs for you.

Buck is right on the money regarding the 30" tube. With a stronger action, you might, possibly load heavier loads to take advantage of the extra 6" over the standard 24" rifle. However, the '73 action is noted for the limits in pressure. While I don't compete in NRA Levergun Silhouette, the .32-20 or .357 magnum are excellent choices. If you don't reload, the .357 mag may be the better choice, as viable ammo is relatively inexpensive and available from a variety of sources... the .32-20 may be a little more expensive and possibly not found "everywhere". The same can be said when you start considering the .38-40, .44-40 and .45 Colt chamberings. If you handload, any of those would be good choices, but if you don't... I'd lean toward the .45 Colt, if I wanted a bullet that started with a.4!

HEAD0001 · Post by **HEAD0001** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:15 pm

I found them on the Cimarron site. The rifles look pretty nice. However there is no way I would pay that much for that rifle. That price is ridiculous. I did not pay that much for my High Grade Ultra Light 1886. Tom.

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:19 pm

HEAD0001 wrote:I found them on the Cimarron site. The rifles look pretty nice. However there is no way I would pay that much for that rifle. That price is ridiculous. I did not pay that much for my High Grade Ultra Light 1886. Tom.

You can ususally pick them up at a price much lower than MSRP.

Driftwood...

Curious as to why you say you'd never own a rifle chambered to .45 Colt? No, they weren't "original" but then neither was the .357 or .44 mag, and they're both very popular cartridges.

Driftwood Johnson · Post by **Driftwood Johnson** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:44 pm

Driftwood...

Curious as to why you say you'd never own a rifle chambered to .45 Colt? No, they weren't "original" but then neither was the .357 or .44 mag, and they're both very popular cartridges.

Just ornery I guess. I bought my first 44-40 rifle, an old Marlin Model 1894, back around 1975 or so. I had never even heard of the cartridge at that time. Over time the cartridge has really grown on me, at this time I own 4 rifles chambered for it. I shoot a lot of Black Powder out of my lever guns, and because of the thinner brass at the case mouth, 44-40 performs much better than 45 Colt does. No blowby at all with 44-40, plenty with 45 Colt. Just from the standpoint of shooting Black Powder, 44-40 is so much better than 45 Colt that I would never buy a rifle chambered for 45 Colt. I did win a modern replica of the Winchester Model 1892 a couple of years ago in a raffle, chambered for 45 Colt. I never fired a shot out of it, I sold it and used the money for a down payment on my 44-40 Henry.

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 4:33 pm

Case neck thickness plays a much smaller role in eliminating blowby than the fact the .44 WCF is a bottlenecked case. Pressure pushes against the shoulder of the case (small, but still there...) effectively sealing the chamber. The .45 Colt is straight as the road to Hell...

Driftwood Johnson · Post by **Driftwood Johnson** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:19 pm

Case neck thickness plays a much smaller role in eliminating blowby than the fact the .44 WCF is a bottlenecked case. Pressure pushes against the shoulder of the case (small, but still there...) effectively sealing the chamber. The .45 Colt is straight as the road to Hell...

Howdy Again

I have heard that theory for years, and I just don't buy it. The brass at the neck of a 44-40 tends to run only around .007 thick. I have measured dozens of them, all different makes. The brass at the neck of a 45 Colt tends to run around .012 thick. Again, I have measured bunches of them. When you have brass that is almost 50% thinner at the neck, if the pressure is the same, and it is roughly the same with both 44-40 and 45 Colt, than the thinner brass will just naturally expand better to seal the chamber, given the same pressure. That's simple phsyics. At normal SAAMI pressures, the thicker brass of 45 Colt just does not expand enough to achieve a good seal in the chamber. If you put a heavier crimp on it, or use a really heavy bullet, or anneal the neck, or neck size only, you can get a pretty good seal with 45 Colt. That is because you have gotten the neck to expand better by fooling with the stiffness of the metal, or sealing the chamber back behind the neck.

But 44-40 requires none of those extra measures, it just seals well because the brass is so thin at the case mouth. The taper on 44-40 is so tiny it does not even deserve to be called a bottleneck. I shoot mostly Black Powder in my 44-40 rifles and when my brass ejects it is just as shiny as it was when it was new. It is cleaner than most 45 Colt brass ejected from Smokeless loads.

Here is a photo of a 44 Special on the left, 45 Colt in the middle, and 44-40 on the right. How in the world can you expect that tiny amount of taper to do any sealing? If you are talking about a serious bottleneck like a 30-06 or a 223, or any modern cartridge, I would buy that theory. But not with the almost nonexistant taper of a 44-40. It is almost straight.

Nope, it is because of the thinness of the brass at the neck, not the taper.

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 8:22 pm

45 Colt is just tougher.

Sorry, I couldn't help it.

Nate Kiowa Jones · Post by **Nate Kiowa Jones** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:17 pm

Sort of apples and oranges,too. The 45 chambers tend to run a bit oversize to the cartridge compared to the 44-40. But I do agree with DJ. The thinner 44-40 brass obutrates to the chamber easier than the thicker 45lc brass. For down loaded CAS ammo the blowby issue with 45lc has been well documented. There are several ways that folks have figured out to overcome the problem. (I actually believe that IMR Trail boss powder was developed just for this problem) One of the tricks that some are doing is use 44-40 brass necked up to 45lc. The thinner brass cures the problem.

To the subject.

rods wrote:I am getting the funds together for a long waited Uberti 73 rifle. I plan to use it for pistol caliber cowboy silhouette game. I am undecided on the caliber and barrel length. I am leaning toward the 32-20 with 24" barrel. Anyone on here have experience with the 30" models? Would a 44-40 or 45Colt in the 30" barrel be more desireable? I could use some feedback!
Thanks
Rod

For the NRA Levergun silhoutte game the 32-20 would be my choice but I've built several Rossi 92's in 357m for the game. I've even worked out an adjustment trigger for those guys.
If 44-40 is preferred Rossi still makes those too.

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:50 pm

I ordered my Cimarron (Uberti) 24" .32-20 from Buffalo Arms during last hunting season. They had to get it for me but it took all of 2 weeks to be delivered after my call to order it. A very gorgeous rifle and as accurate as any lever I own with cast bullets. I shoot the Lyman 311008
sized to .314 and lubed with Alox 50/50 over 7 gr. of
2400.
http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,4027.html
Enjoy!!

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:12 am

The shoulder on the .44 WCF provides a significant "seal" factor, whether you choose to believe it or not. Yeah, the thinner brass can also be a factor, but I have measured numerous Starline .44-40 and .38-40 cases, and find them to be at least .010" thick at the neck, which compares to many makes of .45 Colt cases, especially some of the Winchester .45s I have.

Necking up .44 WCF cases to .45 Colt is a foolish solution to a problem that doesn't really need one...

Nate Kiowa Jones · Post by **Nate Kiowa Jones** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 12:05 pm

Buck Elliott wrote:The shoulder on the .44 WCF provides a significant "seal" factor, whether you choose to believe it or not. Yeah, the thinner brass can also be a factor, but I have measured numerous Starline .44-40 and .38-40 cases, and find them to be at least .010" thick at the neck, which compares to many makes of .45 Colt cases, especially some of the Winchester .45s I have.

Necking up .44 WCF cases to .45 Colt is a foolish solution to a problem that doesn't really need one...

OK

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 3:09 pm

I gotta agree about it being more a matter of the case thickness than the miniscule shoulder of the .44WCF The difference between the straight case of the .45 Colt and the .38WCF would be far more likely to be a greater factor.

But... Starline brass is quite thick in almost all its offerings. I studiously avoid Starline for my BP rounds.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 4:52 pm

Just a comment: I had heard of necking up 44-40 brass to .45 Colt. So since I'd found a partial box of 44-40s at the indoor range I go to I thought I'd try it.
It was a pain in the butt, but doable. The big problem is the 44-40 Rim is larger than the 45 Colt rim and would not fit in the cylinder of my OM BH. It has rebated chambers.
So I fired them out of my S&W.
I figure that alone makes it too much work. I just use R-P brass for my lighter pressure loads.
Starline is thicker and I think that is over kill with the older cartridges.

Joe

OH WAIT ..... the topic. Almost forgot it

. I am also wanting an Uberti 1873, but I think I'd go for a 44-40. Many many many summers ago I owned a cut down 1873 Winchester in 32-20 and even with it's 16"-18" barrel I thought it a bit too heavy.
Maybe if I handled one today I'd think different. But try to find one around here

Joe

Driftwood Johnson · Post by **Driftwood Johnson** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:44 pm

I have measured numerous Starline .44-40 and .38-40 cases, and find them to be at least .010" thick at the neck, which compares to many makes of .45 Colt cases, especially some of the Winchester .45s I have.

Try measuring some Winchester 44-40. .007 thick at the neck. I've got hundreds of them. And that's why it obturates better, just as Nate said. That tiny little taper won't help seal anything, and high pressure gas has no problem going around corners.

Like I said before, I've heard that explanation for years, and it just don't hold water. It's the thinness of the brass at the neck that does the job. Unfortunately it is that same thinness at the neck that can tend to make reloading 44-40 a little bit fussy. It's real easy to put too much pressure on that thin neck and crumple it.

I tried making some 45 cal 44-40 last year. I fired 5 rounds of 44-40 out of one of my 45 Colt Colts. I came up with some pretty funny looking brass, it had expanded up to 45 at the neck, but it was still 44-40 shaped everywhere else. Kind of a reverse bottle neck. Would not have been good for anything.

w30wcf · Post by **w30wcf** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:14 am

I totally agree that the thinner case neck of the .44-40, and for that matter, the .38-40 and .32-20 is the factor in sealing the chamber. The following indicates that.

Not too long ago a member on another forum was thinking about having his Henry .44-40 sleeved to fire the .44 Russian cartridge to replicate the original .44 Henry b.p. catridge but was concerned about the affect on accuracy with the longer bullet jump to the rifling.

I decided to take ten .44-40 cases and, using a special die, pushed the case neck down an additional .30", making a case neck length of a .65". Plenty of space in the chamber around that additional .30" of case neck (!) for fouling to get into if the forward portion of the neck did not seal the chamber.

I loaded 28 grs. of b.p. under a 200 gr. bullet in the long necked cases using a powder compression of .08", replicating the amount of compression used in an original .44 Henry rimfire cartridge that I had previously dissected.

I fired the 10 long necked .44-40 cartridges in my .44-40 Marlin Cowboy LTD. rifle. Interestingly, there was no fouling whatsoever on the .30" of unsupported case neck, proving that the thinner wall thickness alone did seal the chamber.

The 10 bullets left the 24" barrel at an average of 1,130 f.p.s. and surprisingly produced a nice 2" group at 50 yards even with the additional .30" of bullet jump.

w30wcf

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:25 pm

You boys can subsitute theory, superstition and anecdotal 'Evidence" for the pure physics of the question all day long. The FACT of the matter is that the bottle-neck constriction of the .44-40/.38-40 case/chamber is the REAL working part of the equation.

You can 'believe' in the tooth fairy, the Easter bunny and the goodness of the demcrat party, and it will avail you nothing in the end. Same goes for the totality of your case-neck thickness theory...

Not that it seems to matter to so many of you. (Ask your local physics 'perfesser...')

Driftwood Johnson · Post by **Driftwood Johnson** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:51 pm

Please point to exactly where on the 44-40 round in my photo this 'bottleneck' is that is doing all this sealing.

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:13 pm

You can call it "bottle-necked" or "tapered" or whatever you choose, but the 'tapered/bottlenecked" feature is plain as day in your own photos...

The constriction, by whatever name you choose to call it, is the main working factor in 'sealing' the chamber.

I'm done with it...

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:18 pm

Buck Elliott wrote:You boys can subsitute theory, superstition and anecdotal 'Evidence" for the pure physics of the question all day long. The FACT of the matter is that the bottle-neck constriction of the .44-40/.38-40 case/chamber is the REAL working part of the equation.
You can 'believe' in the tooth fairy, the Easter bunny and the goodness of the demcrat party, and it will avail you nothing in the end. Same goes for the totality of your case-neck thickness theory...
Not that it seems to matter to so many of you. (Ask your local physics 'perfesser...')

Nay. I believe your physics professor would agree that the momentary "explosion" inside the case moves the case outward to contact the wall of the chamber at the point of least resistance, the place the brass is the thinnest; not where the brass is actually the strongest (the curve of the shoulder being stronger than the straight portion of the neck. If that "shoulder" were solely, or even the major contributing factor, then thinning or annealing case mouths of my .45 Colt brass would be a useless activity. And frankly... THAT works; in a manner that equals the sealing properties of any rifle chambered in .38/.44WCF. I just find that the work involved isn't worth the effort as long as I stay away from Starline brass.

And, I don't shoot those wharthog loads that seem to so thrill others. I load my BP rounds for the rifle with ~25 grains of 3F, a card wad on the base of a 225 grain TC boolit lubed with SPG. The last time I ran an endurance test I used all used Winchester brass (neither annealed or thinned), and ran a two day match without cleaning. I got to the 10th stage 90 rounds and a sit overnite before I had to use some gun scrubber to spray out the lifter as it was too "gummy". (I'd missed one round to that point... so accuracy didn't suffer, cause that one miss was clearly caused by pullin' the trigger w/o the front sight covering the target!