OT - CNN: Time to scale back large observances on 9/11?

[don Tomás]

CNN Pole:
Is it time to scale back large annual observances on 9/11?

I guess they want to forget.

Right now running 50% yes, 50% no.

CNN Pole

To vote, look on right hand side a little ways down. Thanks...

[J Miller]

Is it time to scale back large annual observances on 9/11?
Yes 49% 24766
No 51% 25267
Total Votes: 50033

The No's are taking the lead. (I voted NO)

We NEED to remember this. If we allow ourselves to forget we are nothing be sheep to be slaughtered.

Joe

[WCF3030]

Back to 50/50.

This poll just shows how out of touch I must be.
I was shocked to see it at a even split.
Makes me sick

[JReed]

apperently they cant do math very well

Yes 50% 25778
No 50% 26191
Total Votes: 51969

That dont make 50/50 to me

I also voted NO

[Hobie]

I'm not out of touch with righteousness only with weak willed fellow citizens. I think we should bring it up a notch with say, the simultaneous destruction of 100 enemy installations across the world.

[CraigC]

I even despise how most people refer to it. 9/11??? Have we really become that lazy that the only way we can refer to the worst terror attack in history as well as one of the worst tragedies this country has ever seen, a foreign attack on our sovereignty, with three *******' numbers???

It's no wonder people so soon forget the lessons from history. Last week is a blurr to most of them.

[C. Cash]

Done! Thanks Don Tomas. I've noticed how little this is being covered over the past 2 days. Also, the left wing reaction to Patreus and some little good news coming out of Iraq is just about as sickening. Who needs Al Quaida when you have them to undermine our country?

[J Miller]

I think we should bring it up a notch with say, the simultaneous destruction of 100 enemy installations across the world.

I'm a bit more blood thirsty. Since we have identified the terrorists who hijacked the airliners and committed the acts, I think we should simply obliterate the home town of every one of them. No warnings, just do it, and then tell them they can expect this every time they attack us.

Joe

[Rusty]

Y'all might not like this, but... to tell you the truth I'm getting tired of hearing about it because when I think about 9/11 all I can think about is the lack of commitment our government has towards doing anything meaningful about it. It would be like if you son threw a baseball through the window so as punishment you spank your daughter. I mean it seemed to make sense at t he time. The son did it but he needed to be outside cutting the grass and didn't have time for punishment.
In the same light, the Saudi's seem to me to be the ones behind everything but we attack Iraq? Sorry but I fail to see the logic in that.

Rusty <><

[don Tomás]

I think we should bring it up a notch with say, the simultaneous destruction of 100 enemy installations across the world.

I'm a bit more blood thirsty. Since we have identified the terrorists who hijacked the airliners and committed the acts, I think we should simply obliterate the home town of every one of them. No warnings, just do it, and then tell them they can expect this every time they attack us.

Joe

Somebody posted this just after 9/11 and it summed up my thinking pretty well:

200 years from now, I want their children's children's children's
children to cower and cringe in fear whenever they hear the sounds of
jet engines overhead because their legends tell of fire from the sky.
I want them to hide in dark caves and holes in the earth,
shivering with terror whenever they hear the roar of diesel engines
because the tales of their ancestors talk about metal monsters
crawling over the earth, spitting death and destruction.
I want their mothers to be able to admonish them with
"If you don't behave, the Pale Destroyers will come for you",
and that will be enough to reduce them to quivering obesience.
I want the annihilation to be so complete that their mythology
will tell them of the day of judgment when the stern gods from
across the sea .. the powerful 'Mericans .. destroyed their forefathers' wickedness.
(Original created by BlueLancer ... 13 September 2001)

[Old Ironsights]

I suppose there's "large scale" and then there's "large scale".

Having a tasteful, short, non-political tribute each year, as we do for Pear Harbor, is appropriate.

Having these nine-hour media-circus political screaming hissyfits is not appropriate.

So, yes. Scale them back. Scale them back to honorable, tasteful and non-political.

[Poohgyrr]

I think we should simply obliterate the home town of every one of them. No warnings, just do it, and then tell them they can expect this every time they attack us. Joe

Maybe I misunderstand the idea of blood debt (which they live by), but this kinda sounds good to me....

[Old Ironsights]

I think we should simply obliterate the home town of every one of them. No warnings, just do it, and then tell them they can expect this every time they attack us. Joe

Maybe I misunderstand the idea of blood debt (which they live by), but this kinda sounds good to me....

That whole concept assumes a "Western" mindset - i.e. respect for life and fear of death.

The Radical Islamist vision of Islam recognises death only as a path to conquest or glory - so killing their families would have less than any positive effect on their actions.

The ONLY thing you can do is threaten somthing they hold more sacred than Life - Mecca or somesuch.

Unfortunately, threatening Mecca would make Radicals out of many, if not most non-radical, otherwise integrated, secular muslims.

Lose Lose.

The only ethical and tactically sound "solution" is to keep killing the Crazies as they act crazy and reinforce with the non-crazy muslims (like the Free Muslim Colition) any and all attempts to cram Religious Reform down the throat of the Radicals.

That or Genocide... How willing are you to take up that mantle?

[handirifle]

Well they attack the innocents, and claim we do, so we ought to at least live up to the lies they spit.

If you pound them back into the sand, eventually they'll either run out of suicide bombers or decide it's no longer worth it.

But we'll never have to worry about that cause there's too many that have no stomach for war, and want to go tip toeing thru the tulips thinking their enemies will do the same if left unprovoked.

WAKE UP PEOPLE they have already declared war on us, and THEY have the heart to see it through till ONE OF US is annilated, guess which one it will be? We destroyed Japans cities with conventional bombs, we ought to at least oblige these morons.

I agree, every 9/11 we step it up a notch, just to remind them WE REMEMBER.

[Jeeps]

If by scaling back they mean to stop blame throwing and political BS then I am all for it.

If it was my choice the following would take place every Sept. 11th

1.Review the footage of that hateful day.

2.One minute of silence for real American citizens to dry their eyes and compose themselves.

3.The Lords Prayer.

4.One more minute of silence for our citizens of other denominations to pray in the manner they see fit.

5.Then whatever your local city, town, or municipality sees fit to commemorate that day...

Jeeps

[Old Ironsights]

There is a difference between Total War, living down to the MoveIslamoOn Radicals opinion of the US, and Genocide.

Total War will not stop tribalisim. Never has, never will. Only thing to ever stop tribalisim is Societal Enlightenment/Religious Reformation.

The only other solution is Genocide... Tribalisim writ large.

[Old Ironsights]

Amen Jeeps.

[Old Ironsights]

I think this is a fairly accurate, precient, and tactically sound POV:

-------------------------------
Last Chance for Iraq
By Kamal Nawash

Recently, several reports by various military experts have painted a grim picture of Iraq. The assessments differ in key conclusions, however all the experts, including Gen. David Petraeus and former Gen. James Jones agree that Iraqi forces are currently unable to take over security operations from American troops. While this assessment may be disappointing to many Americans, the Free Muslims Coalition believes that Iraqi forces’ inability to takeover security operations may be the only leverage the United States has to facilitate reconciliation and a political solution between the parties in Iraq.

Over the past three years the Free Muslims Coalition has argued that the only path to peace in Iraq is a political solution that leads to reconciliation between Iraq’s major groups and that military operations merely buy time until a political solution is reached. The good news is that all American officials now understand that a political solution is a prerequisite to peace in Iraq. The bad news is that the U.S. government has been unable to convince the ruling Shiite and Kurdish Iraqi government to adopt political changes to encourage the Sunni Arabs to lay down their arms and become partners in a future Iraq. Consequently, the only question for American political leaders is how to facilitate or even demand that the Shiite and Kurdish ruling government of Iraq accept a political solution that may lead to peace. With the release of General Petraeus’ report the Free Muslims Coalition offers the following suggestions on how to achieve stability in Iraq.

Iraq is a multiethnic heterogeneous society with numerous ethnic and religious groups, including a significant Christian population. However, the three largest groups are the Shiite Arabs, Sunni Arabs and Sunni Kurds. For more than 1000 years, Iraq has been ruled by Sunni Arabs. This of course changed after the United States invaded Iraq and power shifted to the Shiites and the Kurds. As a result of the power shift, the Sunni Arabs now feel under siege and that they are being ethnically cleansed from Iraq with the help of the United States. Prior to the invasion of Iraq, Sunni Arabs made up 50% of Baghdad and now only number 25%. Consequently, the Sunni Arabs responded to the perceived threat against them with a deadly insurgency that has frustrated all efforts to quell it through military means.

To address their concerns, the Sunni Arabs want to amend the new Iraqi constitution and enact various laws that protect them, give them significant power and economic resource sharing and keep Iraq one united nation with a strong central government. So far, the Shiite and Kurdish led Iraqi government has failed to enact any meaningful reform or political compromise with the Sunni Arabs. Consequently, the Sunni Arabs have rejected the new Iraq and have vowed never to accept the new Iraqi government nor allow peace and stability unless political changes are made. Moreover, the Sunni Arabs have opened their doors to anyone who is willing to help them, including Al-Qaida and Usama Bin Laden.

As a consequence of the failure of the current Iraqi government to enact reforms that may lead to peace, many in the U.S. government, including senator John Warner of Virginia, have called on U.S. troops to withdraw from Iraq, either substantially or symbolically.

The Free Muslims Coalition recognizes that the current Iraqi government will not pursue reconciliation and compromise as long as the U.S. military is fighting their battle.

However, [ithe U.S. can send a strong message to the Iraqi government without immediately withdrawing American troops from Iraq[/i]. As mentioned above, all American experts, including Gen. David Petraeus and former Gen. James Jones acknowledge that Iraqi forces are incapable of assuming security operations from the U.S. military. The United States military could threaten to temporarily redeploy away from the population centers to send a clear message to the Iraqi government that the U.S. will not be there to protect them unless they work toward reconciliation and reach a political solution. In other words, the U.S. military should give the Iraqi government a glimpse of what would happen to them if U.S. troops withdraw.

In conclusion, the unwillingness of the U.S. military to fight on behalf of the Iraqi government maybe the most powerful leverage the U.S. has with the Shiites and Kurds to persuade them to compromise. Moreover, the U.S. military should continue to work directly with Sunni Arabs as has been done successfully in Anbar Province. Unless a political solution is reached the war in Iraq will only get bigger, Iran’s influence will increase and criminals like Al Qaida will continue to find supporters for their deadly services and dark vision for the future.

www.freemuslims.org

[PPpastordon]

Old Ironsights;
Thanks for the most helpful and interesting voice that anyone has posted in this string; the site for "Muslims Against Terrorism" (freemuslims.org). I find this site might be a voice of reason from the Muslim world. But that is an assessment that it takes time to accurately found. At the same time, please forgive my doubts.
First; I doubt because this site is (or seems) so different from what the world sees from the Muslim communities throughout the world. A quick review of positions on the site sounds much like those expressed to me years ago (early 90's, so pre 9/11) by some Muslims I met from Terre Haute. But this is a much different world from then.
Second; I doubt because I have read and heard many times over the years that Muslims (or French, Germans, Hebrews, Russians, South Africans, Brazilians, Samoans or members of any other group or nation) say one thing to your fact but act another way behind your back. I have observed this to be true from persons of some groups - any I try and not translate that to all members of that group, or carry this over to all other groups. But I must confess that I currently struggle with this and my feelings with Muslims.
Third; I see Islam as a false religion worshiping a false god whom they try to identify as the same as the Hebrew and Christian God.
Anyway, I have bookmarked the site and plan on frequent visits. I hope to hear positive things about them in the future.
PPpastordon

[Hobie]

Is it time to scale back large annual observances on 9/11?
Yes 52% 74573
No 48% 69760
Total Votes: 144333

Sadly, some don't want to remember. Have faith. There are still rememberance ceremonies for battles/losses as far back as 1774.

[Old Ironsights]

PPpastordon:

I don't completely disagree - mainly because of the Islamic principles of "taquiyya" and "tu-quoq" (essentially "righteous lying/disembling") BUT, that said, Kamal is the only "public" Muslim going head to head against CAIR, and that can't be a bad thing.

Another good author/speaker asking/working for Reformation in Islam is Irshad Manji - a Pakastani, Lesbian, anti-Arabist Muslim. (go figure)

As for the Falsity of Islam in general, I won't argue that point, but pointing it out won't make it go away.